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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 25 2011 18:28 JayJay_90 wrote:The patch seems pretty good imo, but i think Zerg might not have been nerfed enough and especially ZvP is probably imbalanced. Also 1-1-1 allin TvP hasn't been touched  .
It has. First step to defending a 1-1-1 all in is a greedy 1gate expo, which currently can be easily punished by a number of T openings. Hopefully increased rax build time will make 1gate expos a bit more viable; immortal range buff should also help a lot with sniping siege tanks while avoiding marines at the same time. Defending 1-1-1 won't be a cakewalk but it should be a bit more doable after the patch.
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On August 25 2011 18:36 ProxySilmaril wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:31 Mandalor wrote:On August 25 2011 18:23 ProxySilmaril wrote:
Patch seems ok, but the Infestor problem isn`t solved, it gets more worse!
For example, if protoss has a army of Voids+colossus+stalker without blink and the Zerg has Infestor+mass ling + broodlords, then it is a def loss for Protoss, when he get fungaled. The Voids will be down even faster and the stalker couldnt come to the broods, also with blink they couldnt, because of fungal! so after voids are down, the broods have free way!!!!
So solution for Infestor would be: - fungal should only slow
- fungal have to cost more energie (is justiefied, because blink needs more time anyway)
- and maybe remove pathogen glands Nothing you said makes sense (and I'm a protoss player). Why would it be worse? Fungal is weaker now, voids will not be down faster. And why would you not research blink for the late game now? If the zerg has brood lords (which usually come late late late game), you had plenty of time to research blink. Again, nothing you just said makes any sense at all. On August 25 2011 18:29 proot wrote:
-->first, voids go down faster becuase they are armored http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Void_Ray(Infestor Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored).) --> second blink wouldnt help because of fungal
Erm.. 130% * 36 = 46,8. It got a nerf both against armoured and non-armoured.
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On August 25 2011 18:39 corvaleur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:34 Cosmos wrote:
Barracks build time is SUCH A JOKE...
-Xel'naga cavern
-pylon on lwoground
-double gate on highground
-profit. Scout, take 4 workers, destroy pylon, Protoss lost 100 minerals and supply.
and you lost mining time in worth of close to 100 minerals.
I think the better way is just making a bunker in your mineral line.
Anyways, I wonder where that random number from the Seeker Missile speed comes from.
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i still see no love for zerg the cost of overseer is justified but now nobody will never (be able to) use contaminate because of that insane mana cost. I dont see reduced Ultra build time make it to the patch and the infestor's neff is defo gonna make it.
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On August 25 2011 18:40 Hristiyan wrote:
When will be the next State of the game ? I want to see idra comment on the blaance changes
Right after the games on friday I believe, but IdrA probably wont be there, instead there will be the MLG CEO guy and other one talking about MLG 2012 structure etc
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On August 25 2011 18:38 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:32 Macpo wrote:On August 25 2011 18:16 Girondelle wrote:
I dont understand the reasoning behind the barrack building time increased it enables zerg to fast expand a bit more safely vs 2 rax. I think that paradoxically it may encourage 2 rax play indirectly, as it will encourage zerg fast expand play, against which 2rax is perfectly viable... 2 rax doesn't kill zergs anymore.
Is there a reason why you're lying to your fellow human beings?
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guess i was to early with not much to complain about the changes, well big greens.
And you can fill the que before being maxed ... just like the toss (can change back to normal gate). And toss is the one that gets more evil the longer they stay on 200 supply. If anyone leaves them time, they will build 20 gates. those are 40 supply reproduced in 5 seconds.
The other races have other late game 200 supply benefits, zerg can invest workers into spines, mass worker trick, but in general its the queen that makes it possible that there is no need for pure production hatches (though its saver to get one, but still soooo way more cheaper).
Terran well they probably have the strongest, yet most expensive one. Refill their worker supplies with mules. Which allows them to use a bigger army supply.
I think the terran one is the hardest do to and the strongest, but i think the toss one is the strongest early on when 200 supply is reached.
And yeah nothing about the endless streams of zerg, but a toss warping in 20 units right after you started killing some, damn thats scary.
So nothing imba there for me, just that zergs and toss works naturally, while a terran has to think things through *g*
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Sorry guys, haven't read the whole thread but, how will FFs and warping in on ramp be affected by the vision nerf ? Can you now block your ramp with just one FF and be safe frow low ground pylon warpin ?
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On August 25 2011 18:39 corvaleur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:34 Cosmos wrote:
Barracks build time is SUCH A JOKE...
-Xel'naga cavern
-pylon on lwoground
-double gate on highground
-profit. Scout, take 4 workers, destroy pylon, Protoss lost 100 minerals and supply.
protoss cancel pylon and make 2 new ones, now what ?
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ups didnt saw the % xD... thought from 30 to 40 srry my fault
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omg such a huge change to blink stalkers, the build time and the up-ramp sight nerf...
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On August 25 2011 18:43 cilinder007 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:39 corvaleur wrote:On August 25 2011 18:34 Cosmos wrote:
Barracks build time is SUCH A JOKE...
-Xel'naga cavern
-pylon on lwoground
-double gate on highground
-profit. Scout, take 4 workers, destroy pylon, Protoss lost 100 minerals and supply. protoss cancel pylon and make 2 new ones, now what ?
Make a bunker and win the game maybe
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On August 25 2011 18:42 BurningSera wrote:i still see no love for zerg the cost of overseer is justified but now nobody will never (be able to) use contaminate because of that insane mana cost. I dont see reduced Ultra build time make it to the patch and the infestor's neff is defo gonna make it.
infestor nerf is minor as hell, it doesnt change anything at all i'd say. As for ultralisks i have to agree, they just suck, they should allow ultras to walk over cliffs or at least small units and mineral patches, they are always stuck and they cant fight, even though they do ridicilous damage against armored they cannot engage
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On August 25 2011 18:35 Playerone111 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:33 Snowbear wrote:On August 25 2011 18:32 Macpo wrote:On August 25 2011 18:16 Girondelle wrote:
I dont understand the reasoning behind the barrack building time increased it enables zerg to fast expand a bit more safely vs 2 rax. I think that paradoxically it may encourage 2 rax play indirectly, as it will encourage zerg fast expand play, against which 2rax is perfectly viable... 2rax vs a fast expanding zerg is not working. Good zergs just piss on it. Like Nestea yday  ?
That was more a map issue where he could block of the entrance with 2 bunkers, and nestea didn't block it with a drone.
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On August 25 2011 18:42 arbitrageur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:38 Koshi wrote:On August 25 2011 18:32 Macpo wrote:On August 25 2011 18:16 Girondelle wrote:
I dont understand the reasoning behind the barrack building time increased it enables zerg to fast expand a bit more safely vs 2 rax. I think that paradoxically it may encourage 2 rax play indirectly, as it will encourage zerg fast expand play, against which 2rax is perfectly viable... 2 rax doesn't kill zergs anymore. Is there a reason why you're lying to your fellow human beings?
If the Zerg plays it correctly, it wont.
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Let's see..
Protoss getting buffed a bit to help defend 1-1-1 (Immortal range upgrade makes absolute sense, should've been that way a lot earlier imo), Fungal gets a bit weakened (won't hurt much), Hellions get made pointless except for in huge numbers and the issue of Seeker Missiles being pointless due to high costs still isn't removed, skillful Seeker Missile dodging gets removed though.
This is why we need less qq and more people that think out of the box.
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Nice patch, just fux terran up so other races dosen't qq.
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On August 25 2011 18:44 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:42 arbitrageur wrote:On August 25 2011 18:38 Koshi wrote:On August 25 2011 18:32 Macpo wrote:On August 25 2011 18:16 Girondelle wrote:
I dont understand the reasoning behind the barrack building time increased it enables zerg to fast expand a bit more safely vs 2 rax. I think that paradoxically it may encourage 2 rax play indirectly, as it will encourage zerg fast expand play, against which 2rax is perfectly viable... 2 rax doesn't kill zergs anymore. Is there a reason why you're lying to your fellow human beings? If the Zerg plays it correctly, it wont.
Oh really? Please share with us your replays from Korean grandmaster league.
How many times have you seen zerg survive 11/11 proxy no-CC 2/3 bunker next to ramp when going hatch first? I'm high master zerg from Korea .. I played like 20 games against a high masters Terran in NA who did 11/11 proxy with no CC on shattered. I tried leenock's 14h14p16OL15g, the more standard 151517OL no gas, and everything inbetween. He basically has 3 bunkers on my ramp before my eggs even start making lings. __G_G__
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On August 25 2011 18:38 enecateReAP wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:29 proot wrote:
The terran nerfs simply feel like poorly thought out knee jerk reactions. The barracks one in particular seems really weird because, before this, the rax finished right as the 15th scv finished for an orbital. Now it'll be some strange timing where the 16th scv is halfway done, or you have a delayed scv for a faster orbital. Zealot proxys are going to be very micro intensive to deal with, seeing you'll have one marine vs the zealot when it hits. I simply can't find a good reason for this change.
BFH is fine...I guess? There's no real point in getting the blue flame now unless you want to roast lings, but it'll be more practical to just gain map control via red flames. They could have approached it another way by compensating on the price at least.
As for the immortal change, that'll just bring back the ridiculous 3/4 gate robo pressures that were around in the beta where immortals took less time to build, considering range has much bigger balance implications. I really can't see it lasting too long even if it does make it through. 11-11 is too strong, I believe that is why the barracks will take longer. And no, blue flame was just too strong vs worker lines in all matchups. And I don't think the immortal change is huge at all, immortals are still preety bad. I think you're being a bit too 'knne jerk' yourself, youre being biast.
Actually the immortal range buff is a large deal. Immortal is a perfect micro unit with slow attack speed but huge damage. And range 6 is same as marine in bunker. Toss can now micro his immortal to take shots at bunkers and avoid most of the damage.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On August 25 2011 18:43 cilinder007 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 18:39 corvaleur wrote:On August 25 2011 18:34 Cosmos wrote:
Barracks build time is SUCH A JOKE...
-Xel'naga cavern
-pylon on lwoground
-double gate on highground
-profit. Scout, take 4 workers, destroy pylon, Protoss lost 100 minerals and supply. protoss cancel pylon and make 2 new ones, now what ?
Now you giggle because you've forced the toss to be supply blocked for an extra 30 seconds. While making a bunker to win
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EPT
