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On August 11 2011 05:07 BushidoSnipr wrote:
Just look at the hotkeys for protoss thats what I would say
What? Almost all race hotkeys are on the left. (by default) As far as I know, protoss does not have any advantage in this regard
Anyway, I think if zerg didn't have to spread creep and larva inject to be effective, zerg would be the easiest. However, you have to sink a good portion of your APM to be effective at the race.
Protoss, however, does not have to constantly larva inject.
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I played protoss and eventually switched to terran.
In my opinion its because protoss requires the least multitasking, has the least harrasment options and units dont really require much individual microing. Basically the goal of a protoss is to get on 3 bases and get their 200/200 +3/+3 deathball and roll over the other guy, and there really isn't that much in-between that the other races rely on. Zerg takes heavy harassment/flanking/surrounds and positioning. Terran takes all of that on top of having difficult macro and the necessity of supreme multitasking abilities. Not only that, but the warp in mechanic makes it very easy to fix mistakes in army positioning/static defense placement by simply warping in units where needed.
I think your right in the fact that protoss probably requries the most large scale microing (if that makes sense) in forcefields/storms etc.
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1) dont feed the trolls, those who say "toss is A move easy"
2) protoss is easiest in a way that banshee is cheese, 4gate is cheese and FE is cheese. (pointing out fallacy)
3) this perception is created by players who tend to lose against protoss and to their own legitimate reason, it must not be their skill but the opposing player's race.
4) it may have been the case with bw because of less group keys needed but this obviously does not apply to sc2. (2x ling 1 food, 1 marine 1 food, 1 zealot 2 food)
5) misconception that protoss deathball is invincible
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Protoss is definitely NOT the easiest race to play. Maybe economy management wise it is, but half of your units are going different speeds than the others and they all have such different abilities that all need to be utilized. In a standard large PvT engagement, what does the Protoss have to do in literally less than two seconds? Make sure his zealots are in the correct position, throw down guardian shield, lay down perfect force fields, psi storm, start morphing archons, and THEN start microing midbattle (making sure your concave is forming nicely, keeping up with terran scooting back, additional fields, additional storms, etc.) What does the terran have to do? Lay down EMPs and then start stutter stepping/shoot 'n scooting until the battle is over. Additionally, Terrans can just hit their hotkeys and have their units rallied over midbattle, something which, after practicing, takes practically no time. The protoss has to look away from the battle, warp units in and tell them to move towards the engagement which in my opinion takes far longer and breaks the flow of the battle more. Also if you're using robo/stargate units then you have to go through your hotkeys regardless, in addition to warping in.
Now, I am far from trying to imply that Terran has it easy and Protoss has it hard, but I'm just trying to illustrate ways in which playing Protoss is certainly NOT easier than playing other races. Each race has their own difficulties and... non difficulties. An angry player of an opposing race will often say that the race in question is overpowered or too easy to play and focus on the non difficulties. Although it's always funny when people tell me that Toss micro is just 1a... bullshit if I ever heard it. Easy part of being Protoss is definitely economy management, not not NOT micro.
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Whatever race you play to you will always be the weakest, hardest, and takes the most skill race. Whatever race you lose to will be the easiest, OP, and 1a race. This pretty much summed up most of the mindsets in sc2. Imo each race has their own difficulties and is hard at one point or another. Each race has their strong and weak points.
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Because only protoss have been winning MLG and GSL events recently. Oh, wait a second...
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On August 11 2011 06:09 Nible wrote:
Can someone lock this thread? People seem to think I'm trolling and whatnot now.
Failed thread is failed.
:'(
Im sorry your thread got shit on by a bunch of idiots. Anyone here with half a brain knows your not trolling.
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The general consensus of protoss being the easiest comes from the fact that the general public does not play at masters or above. At the lower levels, protoss seems easier because it gives you instant gratification with your macro. And because the game has been balanced around the general population, toss has been nerfed the most in order to get it to be even in the lower leagues. But at that masters and above level everyone can macro well, so it doesn't matter if toss macro is "easier", and instead tosses have to make up for it by microing like madmen. Just watch Huk's stream.
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i wish that these topics would get instant closed, discussions like this are troll's food/flamers fuel. there are certain things that makes the races differ and thats about it, theres no easier/harder, people just play the race that is most suitable for them, then if they dont win they go to every possible forum and write in topics like this, that their beloved race is the weakest/hardest to master/most complicated etc.
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everything is weird at a lower level and i don't like talking about anything other than the professional level of starcraft because there are so many varying levels of skill and playstyles.
however, from what i gather by watching a ton of pro matches and shows like state of the game, or even better, homestory cup, i feel that for the most part, all races seem to balance out in terms of difficulty at a high level (like correctly scouting what your opponent is doing, reacting to certain compositions, doing timing attacks, knowing when to attack or defend, etc)
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your Country52798 Posts
Because not everyone plays protoss. Simple as that.
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On August 11 2011 06:07 Alizee- wrote:
99% of it is spillover from BW where protoss was easier. So most of the people who never even played BW copycatted and said protoss is ez for sc2.
This. It started before anyone had even had a real look at Protoss and the label stuck. Now people just look for excuses to back up the initial claim.
Considering their results both since release and more especially in the last 6 months, anyone who thinks Protoss is easy is more than a little deluded. The only people who win anymore are some of the best microers around.
As a particular example: anyone who thinks controlling zealot/stalker/archon/templar vs MMMG is easy is certifiably insane.
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1) Toss requires less APM because you build fewer units.
2) Toss Macro is easier than Zerg, but harder than Terran. Zerg is punished if they forget their injects. Toss must hit their warpins, while Terran can queue slightly with no penalty.
3) Sentries are rediculously skill intensive and 1 wrong FF can lose you the game. Toss micro is way harder than Zerg micro. Toss micro vs Terran is less important if you are going Zealot/Archon so I understand Terrans saying they have it harder with Siege/Unsiege, ghost EMP kiting, stim etc. Still, Toss micro vs Zerg is really hard.
4) Collosis, Archons and Blink Stalkers are not even close to cost effective.
Just try microing Blink Stalkers vs equal cost Zerlings or Roaches or Hydras or Marauders or Marines in the map editer. Collosis is strong against most ground units, but gets owned by Vikings and to a lesser extent other air units. What do Archons counter? They have attack bonus vs bio, but are not even a staple against Zerg.
Only High Templar are cost effective and only if they have time to get enough energy in which case I would claim they are not build time effective. Furthermore the tech tree for storm is about as deep as it goes.
5) Zerg can win games without building a single structure. Furthermore I do not know of any cannon rusher that builds no workers. You can rush to a cannon faster with more workers.
6) Mothership? Really? Are you sure you have played Protoss?
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Tbh, mainly cause of 4gate being so common and strong in the early days of Sc2...
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Protoss was the easiest back when they had countless effective all-in timings in every MU. The combination of that with the strongest realistic 200/200 compositions, which seemed especially unbeatable in ZvP before the Infestor buff, created the perception that Protoss players had it easy.
Most of those timings and compositions got figured out, unfortunately for Protoss. Turns out the "OP" race actually doesn't have a whole lot going for it. Top Terrans are miles better than Protoss right now, and Zerg, despite the lingering perception of Zerg weakness propagated by the Idralisks, also has higher win rates in Korea. Protoss has the easiest but least effective macro mechanics and is most dependent on micro to hold expansions and win engagements.
Bad players continue to get rolled by Protoss deathballs though, and so to them the race looks easy. It's stupid of them, but what can you do.
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The way I see it there are a couple reasons why Protoss is the the easiest to learn. First off, their macro ability is the easiest to use because you don't have to decide between 2 abilities to use the energy on, and you don't need to keep track of a unit near your base. If you stockpile energy, you can use all of it on whatever you are doing at the time and not just increasing your mining.
Second, while I think Protoss may not have the most viable harassment resources unlike Zerg and Terran, pylons allow a huge mobility boost which I feel could make up for this.
Lastly, I think with early game the Protoss is the easiest to manage for newer players due to less amounts of units on the field and able to use those tier 1 units for quite a while without teching.
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On August 11 2011 06:12 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 06:09 Nible wrote:
Can someone lock this thread? People seem to think I'm trolling and whatnot now.
Failed thread is failed.
:'( Im sorry your thread got shit on by a bunch of idiots. Anyone here with half a brain knows your not trolling.
In light of recent protoss struggles in gsl, protoss players wanted to make a QQ about how much skill their race takes to play..
Thread gets completely denied by players from both the other two races
"These are all idiots"-protoss player
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I think I understand what you're saying. People say Protoss is the easiest race to play because, at the lower level, it's extremely easy to get the death ball, and then just 1A to the enemy, since the Protoss death ball is so much more potent than the other races. Obviously, as soon as you get into the intricacies (deciding what to chronoboost being the biggest one), I think it all sort of evens out. But if you're just a new player, and you build a ton or warpgates and just chronoboost units out of them, you can just 1A into your opponent's base. Zerg is much more harass-styled, and Terran has a lot of micro-intensive decision making involved, but at the higher levels (even high Silver), it all sort of evens out.
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I honestly dunno, after watching goody win I switched to terran just to mech every game and it was the easiest thing I've ever done in my life. Of course I switched back after going 5/5 in custom games against the people I usually practice with cause no one wanted to play me anymore if I mech'd and sat on my ass till 3/3 with only banshee and blue flame harass sprinkled in.
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I'd argue T is the micro race, but that might just be me.
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EPT
