On July 19 2011 04:38 Excludos wrote: "After a thorough investigation"..right.. In wow, you're guilty until proven otherwise.
Think of this as Idra suddenly being perma banned from SC2 for hosting a huge competition and accidentally crashing battle.net.
It's not the same at all, and what he's doing right now is almost exactly the same as Idra did to get him the 3 month suspension... IE: Getting his fans to spam Blizzard with appeals, instead of going for an appeal himself.
Idra told his fans to go tell Chill how bad of a moderator is. Swifty tried to host a huge contest and have fun with everyone.
Idra got a 3 month suspensive from a forum he has stated he doesn't care about. Swifty got perma banned from the game his live revolves around.
I'm not seeing the connection here, are you?
Swifty is trying with that video to make all of his fans send angry mails about this "injustice" Idra told all his fans to go complain to a mod about his first 3 day ban.
That's the connection to what he's doing right now.
Reading in the thread, it would seem he didn't stop at one server and knocked out a few before they got to the source IE: him.
Should he appeal it? Probably. Should he get his fans to appeal it? Not if he really wants his account back.
Swifty is making this video as an attention-magnet. He knows he has no chance of getting his account back - Blizzard, quite frankly, does not give a shit how many people object to banning any one WoW player. They NEVER go back on these kinds of decisions when you try to force their hand by appealing to popular sentiment, and players much more well-known and much more talented than Swifty have been in the exact same position. This little campaign he's running is just another attempt to get more exposure for his ridiculous con game, pawning off common knowledge and low-level tricks and exploits to newbie players.
Actually if you are good friends with Ghostcrawler he will unban your account. Happened to several high profile NA players.
That actually has nothing to do with what I said, because being friends with a developer and appealing to popular sentiment are not related in the slightest, but I like how you threw that out there and then didn't support it with any factual reference or specific examples.
" They NEVER go back on these kinds of decisions when you try to force their hand by appealing to popular sentiment, and players much more well-known and much more talented than Swifty have been in the exact same position."
I gave you an example where they did. Not my fault that you aren't able to infere this.
I was talking about Reckful, Pookz, Sodah etc. basically every top player since everyone botted. (while pretty much every EU Regional 2010 participant remained banned )
Care to elaborate? All I know about mass bannings recently was the archaeology bot that would announce locations in chat and therefore made it stupidly obvious that you were botting.
Also, I'm pretty sure a lot of perma-bans were reversed. It's not uncommon especially for people who make gold intensively (via the AH using legal methods, no botting/hacking/whatever) and Blizzard banned them as a precaution because it seemed like they were getting too much gold too fast. An appeal later and they're unbanned. /shrug
Blizzard's WoW team....... Mega sigh. Swifty has been a badass warrior pioneer for as long as i can remember -- how could they possibly think this is a good idea...?? Reminds me of the INCREDIBLE apathy which blizzard displays when you try to email them about... anything. I had a lvl 60 alliance char back in the day (when 60 was the cap and it actually took a long time to reach) and i messaged blizz with a very polite, very well written email which basically said, "All of my friends have changed servers and rolled horde. If there is any way you could possibly race change my character to orc, (obviously stripped of all gear, professions, gold, gear, etc. you name it) i would pay them whatever sum of money they needed." i ended the email by saying that i was a 2-year subscriber, and that i did not have time to waste leveling another char to 60 again, and would therefore cancel my subscription if they could not help.
They sent me an automated email that they used to send to every single person asking for a race change. It claimed that there was no physically possible way to help me. They did not give 1 / 10th of 1% of a shit about me or my time. This didnt surprise me. What surprised me was the fact that im telling them that they are about to LOSE a bunch of money that i would otherwise have kept spending on subscription. not to mention i offered 60 + dollars for the race change.
Thats not even the worst part. Less than TWO MONTHS LATER i was watching a friend load up WoW on his computer. The loader screen read : "RACE CHANGES NOW AVAILABLE!" Wait, this was an impossibility like 40 days ago, right...?
It's beyond a hatred that i feel towards the world of warcraft GMs... It is pure, 100% LOATHING. I could kill myself knowing i gave them over 200 dollars through the game discs and sub costs. UGGGGGH (pukes) I say all you WoW players go on a boycott. mass subscription cancel please.
To those saying that he can just create a new character that really defeats the purpose. He's been playing for six years on one toon. I'm sure he has a ton of things you can't acheive anymore (Mounts Titles etc..) To put so much effort into a character and to have it banned with little fault of your own would be nothing short of heart breaking honostly.
On July 19 2011 05:17 travis wrote: aaaaaaaaanyways, my opinion on this is that blizzard should have warned him before they banned him, as it's kind of a special situation and it really is blizzard's fault their servers can't handle it.
depending on who's story you listen to, he was warned multiple times and laughed it off until he actually got banned.
and no, it really isn't blizzard's fault that the servers crashed.
How is it not blizzard's fault the servers crashed? If you do something that isn't a violation of the rules and the servers crash then who's fault is it other than the people who run the servers? Or was this a violation of the rules and no one mentioned it?
According to the message Swifty got it was 'in violation of their zone/area disruption and exploitation policies' (two different policies). Blizzard define what they are. We agree to them by signing the EULA when we login every patch. We violate them, we get busted. Simple as.
Common sense alone tells you not to crash 3 servers in a row. This guy obviously had himself a major ego trip, thinking himself invincible due to his celebrity status, assuming that Blizzard wouldn't take action.
No bleeding hearts for the people who just want to play their video game, losing playtime because some douchebag causes mass-logins.
I feel a temporary ban would have been better for this circumstance. Perma is too much, but really. He crashed multiple servers and kept on trying? How stupid do you get?
On July 19 2011 05:14 Iplaythings wrote: Huge sigh, this guy was great for WoW pvp, because while he might not be top ten arena bla bla bla he knows what he is doing, contrary to 90% of WoW's population and he is sharing it.
Overall he also has alot of charisma, and if you want a reason why he is good; he is good enough to have anti fans, one way or the other blizzard just caused a huge reputation dip for him. this guy were also genius at findig weird script which had no influence other than eye candy mostly which made his hands glow etc... (except that one which made him able to charge in combat stance, in vanilla WoW). but even though that happend it's not gonna make him quit the game, if anything he will just get more fans cus of the sympathy for him now sooo. Still dumbfounded that blizzard did what they did, lol
And then he took those stupid little exploits and a couple of generic dueling strategies, tossed them into a montage and sold it as high-end PvP expertise. Which it isn't. You can go to warcraftmovies.com and watch much higher-level play, often with VO commentary for free. You can go to a variety of sites and pay a small fee to get guides on various matchups with multiple examples and full VO commentary. Or you can take your money and wipe your ass with it, because that's as much value as you'd have gotten from giving it to Swifty.
Why are you so angry?
Freakin relax..
Oh, I'm sorry if my harsh language hurt your virgin eyes. You must not be used to profanity. I apologize =(
Would it be more palatable if I called him a meanie no-good bad person doodie-head? He's a dipshit and a con artist, that's all there is to it. It doesn't mean I think he should be dragged in front of a firing squad, but I'm not going to rend my hair if he has to take some of his ill-gotten gains and spend them on a second copy of Cataclysm.
On July 19 2011 05:17 travis wrote: aaaaaaaaanyways, my opinion on this is that blizzard should have warned him before they banned him, as it's kind of a special situation and it really is blizzard's fault their servers can't handle it.
People have been banned before for causing servers to crash.
Example: A long time ago, Blackrock was a really unstable server. Amazingly unstable, with a really huge number of players on it. Every time the server went down people would log onto a specific RP server (argent dawn) in "protest". Lots of people received suspensions for this. I dont know if anybody got permabanned for it, but nobody organized it... it was just something that happened.
Also, how is it blizzards fault their servers cant handle it? I dont think there is any server in the world that couldve handled something like that...
On July 19 2011 05:17 travis wrote: aaaaaaaaanyways, my opinion on this is that blizzard should have warned him before they banned him, as it's kind of a special situation and it really is blizzard's fault their servers can't handle it.
depending on who's story you listen to, he was warned multiple times and laughed it off until he actually got banned.
and no, it really isn't blizzard's fault that the servers crashed.
How is it not blizzard's fault the servers crashed? If you do something that isn't a violation of the rules and the servers crash then who's fault is it other than the people who run the servers? Or was this a violation of the rules and no one mentioned it?
According to the message Swifty got it was 'in violation of their zone/area disruption and exploitation policies' (two different policies). Blizzard define what they are. We agree to them by signing the EULA when we login every patch. We violate them, we get busted. Simple as.
It's kinda blizzard's fault for not updating their servers... new xeons around the corner...
On July 19 2011 05:17 travis wrote: aaaaaaaaanyways, my opinion on this is that blizzard should have warned him before they banned him, as it's kind of a special situation and it really is blizzard's fault their servers can't handle it.
depending on who's story you listen to, he was warned multiple times and laughed it off until he actually got banned.
and no, it really isn't blizzard's fault that the servers crashed.
How is it not blizzard's fault the servers crashed? If you do something that isn't a violation of the rules and the servers crash then who's fault is it other than the people who run the servers? Or was this a violation of the rules and no one mentioned it?
By your logic, if someone DDOS you, it's your service providers fault for not giving you mystical fairy land servers that can handle everything?
MMO server load is exponential to the number of users in a single zone... Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if I cram a few thousand players in a small zone I might crash a server. Penny Arcade has on some occasion with Fan events, they didn't broadcast another server when they realized they have gone over the limit.
On July 19 2011 05:28 NB wrote: hmmm, can sever actually crash just bc of chat channel spamming? i mean they are just txt right?
Given 158,000 subscribers constantly spamming it will go up to few megabytes at max?? never play WoW so im not sure...
It isnt just text, there are also physical characters. A typical server usually has like 10-20k people spread throughout the entire world of the game. Different servers handle different areas of the game and it makes a smooth playing experience. When you get 5k people in the same spot, the server struggles a lot because that is a LOT of freaking calculations to be doing and a LOT of stuff to keep track of for a small portion of their server system.
On July 19 2011 05:28 NB wrote: hmmm, can sever actually crash just bc of chat channel spamming? i mean they are just txt right?
Given 158,000 subscribers constantly spamming it will go up to few megabytes at max?? never play WoW so im not sure...
I've used world of logs and other combat log charts that just record the combat log of what happens during a raid to a txt file. Within a few days that txt file can grow up to a few gigs.
On July 19 2011 05:17 travis wrote: aaaaaaaaanyways, my opinion on this is that blizzard should have warned him before they banned him, as it's kind of a special situation and it really is blizzard's fault their servers can't handle it.
depending on who's story you listen to, he was warned multiple times and laughed it off until he actually got banned.
and no, it really isn't blizzard's fault that the servers crashed.
How is it not blizzard's fault the servers crashed? If you do something that isn't a violation of the rules and the servers crash then who's fault is it other than the people who run the servers? Or was this a violation of the rules and no one mentioned it?
According to the message Swifty got it was 'in violation of their zone/area disruption and exploitation policies' (two different policies). Blizzard define what they are. We agree to them by signing the EULA when we login every patch. We violate them, we get busted. Simple as.
Common sense alone tells you not to crash 3 servers in a row. This guy obviously had himself a major ego trip, thinking himself invincible due to his celebrity status, assuming that Blizzard wouldn't take action.
No bleeding hearts for the people who just want to play their video game, losing playtime because some douchebag causes mass-logins.
I went and checked those parts of the eula out
the zone/area disruption says:
This category includes language and/or actions intended to disturb groups of players or areas of the world,
I think the key word here is "intended", which clearly this guy did not intend to do so (why would he?)
On July 19 2011 04:38 Excludos wrote: "After a thorough investigation"..right.. In wow, you're guilty until proven otherwise.
Think of this as Idra suddenly being perma banned from SC2 for hosting a huge competition and accidentally crashing battle.net.
It's not the same at all, and what he's doing right now is almost exactly the same as Idra did to get him the 3 month suspension... IE: Getting his fans to spam Blizzard with appeals, instead of going for an appeal himself.
Idra told his fans to go tell Chill how bad of a moderator is. Swifty tried to host a huge contest and have fun with everyone.
Idra got a 3 month suspensive from a forum he has stated he doesn't care about. Swifty got perma banned from the game his live revolves around.
I'm not seeing the connection here, are you?
Swifty is trying with that video to make all of his fans send angry mails about this "injustice" Idra told all his fans to go complain to a mod about his first 3 day ban.
That's the connection to what he's doing right now.
Reading in the thread, it would seem he didn't stop at one server and knocked out a few before they got to the source IE: him.
Should he appeal it? Probably. Should he get his fans to appeal it? Not if he really wants his account back.
Swifty is making this video as an attention-magnet. He knows he has no chance of getting his account back - Blizzard, quite frankly, does not give a shit how many people object to banning any one WoW player. They NEVER go back on these kinds of decisions when you try to force their hand by appealing to popular sentiment, and players much more well-known and much more talented than Swifty have been in the exact same position. This little campaign he's running is just another attempt to get more exposure for his ridiculous con game, pawning off common knowledge and low-level tricks and exploits to newbie players.
Actually if you are good friends with Ghostcrawler he will unban your account. Happened to several high profile NA players.
That actually has nothing to do with what I said, because being friends with a developer and appealing to popular sentiment are not related in the slightest, but I like how you threw that out there and then didn't support it with any factual reference or specific examples.
" They NEVER go back on these kinds of decisions when you try to force their hand by appealing to popular sentiment, and players much more well-known and much more talented than Swifty have been in the exact same position."
I gave you an example where they did. Not my fault that you aren't able to infere this.
I was talking about Reckful, Pookz, Sodah etc. basically every top player since everyone botted. (while pretty much every EU Regional 2010 participant remained banned )
I don't understand what you're saying. I knew most of the top-end WoW community. I used to sit on the same vent with Reckful back before he even had Merc Glad, when he was on Medivh. I don't think he was ever banned for botting, but players who were banned, like Affix, just bought another copy of the game. I used to bot all the time, but after I got my rank 1 title, I decided that I'd get a second account just so that I didn't have to risk it anymore. I've never heard of a popular player botting and then having their account restored because their fans took to the internet - the idea is preposterous.
On July 19 2011 05:28 NB wrote: hmmm, can sever actually crash just bc of chat channel spamming? i mean they are just txt right?
Given 158,000 subscribers constantly spamming it will go up to few megabytes at max?? never play WoW so im not sure...
it isn't that sending out a chat message is some tough task, it's thousands of people sending out chat messages that need to be sent out to thousands of other people, repeating over and over again in a very short amount of time
On July 19 2011 05:17 travis wrote: aaaaaaaaanyways, my opinion on this is that blizzard should have warned him before they banned him, as it's kind of a special situation and it really is blizzard's fault their servers can't handle it.
depending on who's story you listen to, he was warned multiple times and laughed it off until he actually got banned.
and no, it really isn't blizzard's fault that the servers crashed.
How is it not blizzard's fault the servers crashed? If you do something that isn't a violation of the rules and the servers crash then who's fault is it other than the people who run the servers? Or was this a violation of the rules and no one mentioned it?
According to the message Swifty got it was 'in violation of their zone/area disruption and exploitation policies' (two different policies). Blizzard define what they are. We agree to them by signing the EULA when we login every patch. We violate them, we get busted. Simple as.
It's kinda blizzard's fault for not updating their servers... new xeons around the corner...
What evidence is there that their servers aren't up-to-date enough? Considering how well the things run on a weekly basis, considering they've got 11-freaking-million customers, I'd say they've got a good system going. It's not in their best interests to have service go down, nor is it in their interest to spend tons more cash than necessary just to avoid a server crash when some douchebag gets a bunch of people to spam a zone.
The idea that someone could blame Blizzard for this is just laughably juvenile.
On July 19 2011 05:17 travis wrote: aaaaaaaaanyways, my opinion on this is that blizzard should have warned him before they banned him, as it's kind of a special situation and it really is blizzard's fault their servers can't handle it.
depending on who's story you listen to, he was warned multiple times and laughed it off until he actually got banned.
and no, it really isn't blizzard's fault that the servers crashed.
How is it not blizzard's fault the servers crashed? If you do something that isn't a violation of the rules and the servers crash then who's fault is it other than the people who run the servers? Or was this a violation of the rules and no one mentioned it?
According to the message Swifty got it was 'in violation of their zone/area disruption and exploitation policies' (two different policies). Blizzard define what they are. We agree to them by signing the EULA when we login every patch. We violate them, we get busted. Simple as.
Common sense alone tells you not to crash 3 servers in a row. This guy obviously had himself a major ego trip, thinking himself invincible due to his celebrity status, assuming that Blizzard wouldn't take action.
No bleeding hearts for the people who just want to play their video game, losing playtime because some douchebag causes mass-logins.
Alright.
He didn't break the EULA.
I don't care who this guy really is but if you read the EULA he didn't break it.
On July 19 2011 05:28 NB wrote: hmmm, can sever actually crash just bc of chat channel spamming? i mean they are just txt right?
Given 158,000 subscribers constantly spamming it will go up to few megabytes at max?? never play WoW so im not sure...
it isn't that sending out a chat message is some tough task, it's thousands of people sending out chat messages that need to be sent out to thousands of other people, repeating over and over again in a very short amount of time
The chat server is its own server, chatting is not what caused the crash. You know the chat server is its own server because the game server can be down/crashing and chat still passes through fine.
On July 19 2011 05:17 travis wrote: aaaaaaaaanyways, my opinion on this is that blizzard should have warned him before they banned him, as it's kind of a special situation and it really is blizzard's fault their servers can't handle it.
depending on who's story you listen to, he was warned multiple times and laughed it off until he actually got banned.
and no, it really isn't blizzard's fault that the servers crashed.
How is it not blizzard's fault the servers crashed? If you do something that isn't a violation of the rules and the servers crash then who's fault is it other than the people who run the servers? Or was this a violation of the rules and no one mentioned it?
According to the message Swifty got it was 'in violation of their zone/area disruption and exploitation policies' (two different policies). Blizzard define what they are. We agree to them by signing the EULA when we login every patch. We violate them, we get busted. Simple as.
Common sense alone tells you not to crash 3 servers in a row. This guy obviously had himself a major ego trip, thinking himself invincible due to his celebrity status, assuming that Blizzard wouldn't take action.
No bleeding hearts for the people who just want to play their video game, losing playtime because some douchebag causes mass-logins.
doing it once is unintentional, moving to other servers after getting warnings from the gm is not. his stated intentions are irrelevant, it's his actions that count.
On July 19 2011 05:28 NB wrote: hmmm, can sever actually crash just bc of chat channel spamming? i mean they are just txt right?
Given 158,000 subscribers constantly spamming it will go up to few megabytes at max?? never play WoW so im not sure...
it isn't that sending out a chat message is some tough task, it's thousands of people sending out chat messages that need to be sent out to thousands of other people, repeating over and over again in a very short amount of time
The chat server is its own server, chatting is not what caused the crash. You know the chat server is its own server because the game server can be down/crashing and chat still passes through fine.
my bad, it's still unnecessary strain that shouldn't have to be dealt with.
On July 19 2011 05:17 travis wrote: aaaaaaaaanyways, my opinion on this is that blizzard should have warned him before they banned him, as it's kind of a special situation and it really is blizzard's fault their servers can't handle it.
depending on who's story you listen to, he was warned multiple times and laughed it off until he actually got banned.
and no, it really isn't blizzard's fault that the servers crashed.
How is it not blizzard's fault the servers crashed? If you do something that isn't a violation of the rules and the servers crash then who's fault is it other than the people who run the servers? Or was this a violation of the rules and no one mentioned it?
By your logic, if someone DDOS you, it's your service providers fault for not giving you mystical fairy land servers that can handle everything?
MMO server load is exponential to the number of users in a single zone... Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if I cram a few thousand players in a small zone I might crash a server. Penny Arcade has on some occasion with Fan events, they didn't broadcast another server when they realized they have gone over the limit.
Dude, most ppl who play WoW are not exactly computer geniuses. In fact, lots of them are downright stupid as hell.
I am not saying Blizzard can keep their servers from crashing, I don't know if they can or not (though I imagine there could be some sort of failsafe mechanism to keep this from happening...). What I am saying is that unless this situation is implicitly described then it's wrong to arbitrarily ban people when it arises. As i expected after reading the rules, they don't really apply to this situation.
thatsundowner: I agree with you if he was warned by a GM. Is there some sort of proof of that, how do you know he was?
EPT
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