EPT[G] ZvT How to MutaBaneLing like a GrandMaster - Page 2
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
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FXOjEcho
Canada318 Posts
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On June 09 2011 10:46 XXXSmOke wrote: I dont understand why it took so long for Z's to incorporate macro hatches into their play, im finally starting to see them now in the master league, and they are absolutely deadly. In all fairness, anyone in Masters league probably has consistently good macro. The only time I feel it is really appropriate to add macro hatches is once you're maxed out 200/200 and need the larvae for a quick remax. If you're keeping up with injects and constantly using all your larvae, you shouldn't have money to afford macro hatches until you're capped at 200. However, due to the current metagame as opposed to before, Zerg is constantly pressured with more aggressive marine/tank play and so this situation rarely occurs, at least for me. On topic with the OP, I enjoy playing with Muta/ling/bling but find that unless T fucks up with marine/tank somewhere, I'm constantly on the backfoot throughout the game because marine/tank seems almost as stable as muta/ling econ-wise. I can never really get into that "swarm" state because every time I engage I end up losing or barely winning. How would you approach engagements during the midgame where Terran is slow-pushing towards your base little by little? | ||
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FXOjEcho
Canada318 Posts
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Mithrandir
United States99 Posts
2 Hatch muta will give you faster tech. Getting a third instead of a macro hatch and relying on roaches/ling/bane to defend will give you a much better economy. Idra is often seen doing the first, and Losira is often seen doing the second. As it is I think your build does worse compared to these two. It is a middle ground style that leaves both your economy and your tech underdeveloped. I agree your version is easier to defend with against early pushes due to the higher larva/speedling numbers. If you have any pro replays / VODs with 3 hatch before lair, no roaches, and no third I'd be more interested. | ||
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aquanda
United States477 Posts
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Hipster778
United States4 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Change "versatile" to "resourceful" and scrap "hostile" and your reasons form the acronym: EGIdra | ||
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Firesemi
Australia87 Posts
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enecateReAP
United Kingdom378 Posts
Also I make my 3rd hatch when my spire is halfway done, the first minerals go on mutas, and then after this point I spend every 100 gas on mutas and all the spare minerals go into drones at this point, while applying harrasement to the Terran. If you don't mind I'll share my idea? ^_^ I go Speedling Expand, take guys off @ 100 gas for speed. Then I continously make drones and be active with my lings. When the hatch pops I put my first guys back in gas (3). 100 gas - Lair Take 3 more extractors. 50 gas - Baneling nest + Evo Chamber If you start +1 upgrade, you should have around 230 gas when your lair finishes to get a spire. But I'm not at the same level as you JEcho, so feel free to critique my opinion. ^_^ | ||
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KhAmun
United States1005 Posts
On June 09 2011 14:14 Mithrandir wrote: I don't know how I feel about this. 2 Hatch muta will give you faster tech. Getting a third instead of a macro hatch and relying on roaches/ling/bane to defend will give you a much better economy. Idra is often seen doing the first, and Losira is often seen doing the second. As it is I think your build does worse compared to these two. It is a middle ground style that leaves both your economy and your tech underdeveloped. I agree your version is easier to defend with against early pushes due to the higher larva/speedling numbers. If you have any pro replays / VODs with 3 hatch before lair, no roaches, and no third I'd be more interested. If you watch phoenix's stream, i can't think of a zvt where he doesn't do this. he competed in gsl2 i believe, and is obviously pro. | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
My question is... Do I have enough stuff? I keep my money low (consistently less than 100) and and I'm never really short on larvae... If I didn't get the second evo w/ the +carapace I could have +275/+150 and effectively replace it with a bane nest or more units. What do you guys think, is my build acceptable or should I change it. | ||
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
what i'm thinking of is contaminate...does it work? the strangest thing is that for Terran...there's honestly not much essentials to upgrade...unlike zerg where almost every unit has a speed upgrade | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
On June 09 2011 09:12 antz0r wrote: Defending against this is such a nightmare! Even with forward offensive aggression, one misclick and you're dead as T  Only fair. One misclick (or even one second not babysitting your Mutas) and all Mutas are dead to a Thor. | ||
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VoiceOfDecember
Australia206 Posts
When I go mutaling/bling, lets say I follow the build you put in the OP. From this point out all the gas literally is spent on mutas, money is spent on hatches, drones and some lings. Since I'm very atcive with my mutas I can see whats going on and get more blings if there's lots of marines ect. When the push starts from terran, only lings and blings are made. Is this a good mindset to have? When spire pops, all gas into mutas for harrass and cash on hatches and drones till ur 1base ahead of them? Should I rely on my mutas to keep him in his base while I expo and drone up? I'm nowhere near GM so a quick and easy answer would be fantastic  | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
On June 09 2011 17:11 VoiceOfDecember wrote: Ok I'm gonna be a noob and go ahead and ask this question, only because I like mutaling/bling. When I go mutaling/bling, lets say I follow the build you put in the OP. From this point out all the gas literally is spent on mutas, money is spent on hatches, drones and some lings. Since I'm very atcive with my mutas I can see whats going on and get more blings if there's lots of marines ect. When the push starts from terran, only lings and blings are made. Is this a good mindset to have? When spire pops, all gas into mutas for harrass and cash on hatches and drones till ur 1base ahead of them? Should I rely on my mutas to keep him in his base while I expo and drone up? I'm nowhere near GM so a quick and easy answer would be fantastic You shouldn't think in absolutes like that, it limits your creativity. But in general that is the gameplan. You are trying to pin your opponent in his base with your mutas. If he has to make 6 turrets and keep his marines/thors in his main for you to not pick his infrastructure apart then you are doing something right. Also, Your opponents expansion habits should weigh in on your decision on when to expand but it shouldn't dictate it. Because you start losing efficiency on minerals after 16 workers you should want to expand whenever you have that saturation or feel comfortable expanding. An example of this would be where you see your opponent on 2 base and you want to be on 5 base, You should go to 5 base because of your play, not stay on 3 because of your opponent. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
In response to the last post, sometimes I build hatches I'm not comfortable with defending simply as a buffer so Terran will attack a certain area, for example the far sides of the map on XNC. That way I can draw forces away from the gold/natural thirds and do damage to his economy while he costs me 300 minerals. Not to mention he can't expand to it until I kill it. It comes down in my mind to 12 lings or user placed destructable debris. Has anyone else downloaded the replay pack? I love the names, especially supermutacrazyboom. That just sounds like good times. | ||
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Cibron
Sweden253 Posts
On June 09 2011 16:56 IzieBoy wrote: i often wonder if it's possible to stop delay a command center from changing into a planetary fortress what i'm thinking of is contaminate...does it work? the strangest thing is that for Terran...there's honestly not much essentials to upgrade...unlike zerg where almost every unit has a speed upgrade Rofl - except for stim, CS and slow? edit: forgot BF and siege. Are you trolling? | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On June 09 2011 18:00 Cibron wrote: Rofl - except for stim, CS and slow? edit: forgot BF and siege. Are you trolling? And don't forget guardian shields, reaper speed (if we're talking 'bout speed upgrades), and any of the lesser-used high-tech unit upgrades (cloak, yamato, ghost upgrades, raven upgrades, ...) Most zerg units have no speed upgrades, only ling/bling/roach do. (Not: infestor, hydra, ultra, muta, corruptor, BL, queen.) | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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annirun
3 Posts
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