EPTThe PUA community - Page 99
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
| ||
Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
| ||
|
thirtythree
38 Posts
On February 24 2012 22:21 r.Evo wrote: Everyone who says "A women can get sex whenever she wants" is talking bullshit. No matter how good/bad a woman looks she will run into certain problems when she wants to hook up without big complications. Can you elaborate on this? Every experience I've had with women in my 27 year life has shown me the exact opposite of what you said. Every conversation I've had with (now ex) girlfriends, my buddies wives/gfs, and friends have all reinforced the idea that all a woman has to do is go to a bar and look approachable and if she's halfway decent physically, she will have an opportunity for sex that very night with her choice of men who are most likely above her on the attractiveness scale. She does not have to approach, does not have to lead, does not have to handle logistics, does not have to manage expectations after the fact. | ||
|
beg
991 Posts
On February 24 2012 22:21 r.Evo wrote: Everyone who says "A women can get sex whenever she wants" is talking bullshit. No matter how good/bad a woman looks she will run into certain problems when she wants to hook up without big complications. Working on those issues and gathering material to the why and what is what most pickup cats are in this for. please sign up at a random dating website, look at the bottom10 ugliest girls and look at masses of reasonably looking men giving them compliments. sure, those men mostly aren't relationship material for the women. but that wasn't the point at all. i was talking about why there are naturally less female PUA communities. | ||
|
beg
991 Posts
On February 24 2012 15:46 Yenticha wrote: wait, I thought PUA were NOT about getting sex? that it was about becoming better? In that case, why couldn't a woman follow the whole PUA thing? And pursue ONLY super high quality males? I am just trying to understand what are the reasons behind the whole PUA thing. Before reading this thread, my (uninformed) opinion was like "something people who have no real passion in life do. They do it to fill this void, by getting whatever society says is a good thing for males (strenght, confidence, money, appearances, women, etc". My opinion is still exactly the same. Because up to now I don't really understand the "becoming better", as this very concept is, for me, either impossible to define (what is "better"?), or just doesnt match the goals posted around here (being strong, leading conversations, being able to protect women). So I'm trying a different angle (= "what about women in PUA?") to see if I can change it. Note that I am not against improvement (lol), but I think it has to be more specific. Like "I want to improve my speaking skills in front of large crowds, because my job, that I like, requires me to do so". the reason behind the whole PUA thing is about getting sex/girlfriend, but the way to achieve this is much different from what everyone thinks at first. so i think men are drawn to PUA, because they have a harder time getting laid. but their pursuit will be about self-improvement in a much general sense, not about being sleeky and manipulative etc. regarding your points about "becoming a better person"... the examples you picked are pretty borderline already. you should think more in terms of "being fun, following your own intentions, confident". if you make an argument that a hardcore shy nerd is just as good as a fun, outgoing person... sure... on a philosophical level they are equally good, but in terms of subjectively perceived life quality, mostly no. if you still disagree. sure. you dont have to be fun and outgoing. who cares? if it's fine for you, cool. but i see so many men who suffer from problems like this. the nerds who dont care about these things usually are in the minority, imho. | ||
|
Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On February 25 2012 02:08 thirtythree wrote: Can you elaborate on this? Every experience I've had with women in my 27 year life has shown me the exact opposite of what you said. Every conversation I've had with (now ex) girlfriends, my buddies wives/gfs, and friends have all reinforced the idea that all a woman has to do is go to a bar and look approachable and if she's halfway decent physically, she will have an opportunity for sex that very night with her choice of men who are most likely above her on the attractiveness scale. She does not have to approach, does not have to lead, does not have to handle logistics, does not have to manage expectations after the fact. Yeah, you're absolutely correct. I'm a bit disappointed r.Evo doesn't know a simple fact about biology and more particularly, society, and this was briefly discussed earlier in this thread as well :/. Unless women are ENTIRELY different in Germany, which I doubt, then the same rules apply. It's really a joke. As long as a woman isn't an obese cow, she's set. Meanwhile, the dude has to be a physical and social badass and as confident as a lawyer to get shit done, unless it's this easy 'social circle' stuff some people do and almost all fail at anyways. That said, my standards are pretty high. Do I really want to bother with a girl whom I'm above on the attractiveness scale like nearly every guy bothers with? Sure it would be a ton easier, but seeing as I'm going after gf material mainly, it's not exactly ideal to grab a girl who puts almost 0 effort into herself. :s Logistics is also a huge issue. The ultimate turn-off for college girls especially for relationships is when you don't live on or near campus like 99% of people do, considering everyone else they know is 10x more convenient and accessible. You really have to be a fucking wizard to make things happen, at least in my experience. :| | ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On February 25 2012 02:08 thirtythree wrote: Can you elaborate on this? Every experience I've had with women in my 27 year life has shown me the exact opposite of what you said. Every conversation I've had with (now ex) girlfriends, my buddies wives/gfs, and friends have all reinforced the idea that all a woman has to do is go to a bar and look approachable and if she's halfway decent physically, she will have an opportunity for sex that very night with her choice of men who are most likely above her on the attractiveness scale. She does not have to approach, does not have to lead, does not have to handle logistics, does not have to manage expectations after the fact. How do I get a man to approach me? I can't just walk over there and talk to him, can I? What do I have to do so he doesn't view me as a slut? What do I have to do so my friends don't view me as a slut? What do I do if the guy I find cute is in a group of men? How can I communicate that I'm into him? How can I quickly find out who is a pussy and who isn't? How can I encourage him to be more offensive physically? How can I give him compliments without him feeling bad about it? Every conversation I've had with (now ex) girlfriends, my buddies wives/gfs, and friends have all reinforced the idea that all a woman has to do is go to a bar and look approachable and if she's halfway decent physically, she will have an opportunity for sex that very night with her choice of men who are most likely above her on the attractiveness scale. She does not have to approach, does not have to lead, does not have to handle logistics, does not have to manage expectations after the fact. You're setting different standards for men and women. For hooking up a woman as a man in general we're aiming for woman who's hawt. We don't want the ugly fatty. Sure a woman has opportunities to hook up with ANY guy but not neccesarily with the type of guy she wants. Basicly "female game" no matter if natural or learned is all about encouraging a man to do what the woman wants him to do. (this goes for pickup and relationships) .. It's the females job to encourage him to approach, to encourage him to lead and to get logistics done without doing them. This shit is just as hard for a woman than the other side is for a guy. Newsflash: WOMEN ARE JUST AS INSECURE AS MEN WHEN IT COMES TO GIRL/GUY STUFF. Even worse, since girls aren't used to guys who have strong game they look like absolute stupid bunnies if they want to hook up with a guy who actually is high value. On February 25 2012 02:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: As long as a woman isn't an obese cow, she's set. Meanwhile, the dude has to be a physical and social badass and as confident as a lawyer to get shit done, unless it's this easy 'social circle' stuff some people do and almost all fail at anyways. Again, double standards and limiting believes. You're saying a women "is set as long she isn't an obese cow"? Set with what? With a random dork who has no life, no perspective but marries her and gets her pregnant? A man on the other side has to be superman to get a cool girl? What you're really arguing here is that you're pissed that you are (or were) someone who had/as to invest time and effort into obtaining a normal sexlife. That's why you're looking at the examples where it's easy for a female and the examples where it's hard as a male. Like, really? a simple fact about biology and more particularly, society ... is that any non-cow woman is set? Just read that sentence again.Most problems men have when trying to find a suitable mate come from being hurt in the past and therefore being scared and afraid. Most problems women have when trying to find a suitable mate... come from being hurt in the past and therefore being scared and afraid. What it boils down is that (I'm pulling the numbers out of my ass but the concept stays the same) 90% of the men would prefer to fuck 10% of the women on this planet and 90% of the women would prefer to fuck 10% of the men on this planet. Pickup, for both females and males, can be condensed to the goal being to take fears and anxiety from the person you're trying to hook up with away to have fun together and enjoy a cool time together. Women are just as afraid as men. Once you understand this concept you'll be able to build comfort/rapport like a boss. I can say I've been with girls who have what I'd call strong female game and those who don't and the difference is like day and night. PS: Take a random magazine for girls/woman, read it and you'll understand why the general female population is better than the general male population at this stuff. PPS: You really have to be a fucking wizard to make things happen, at least in my experience. :| Limiting belief, hi. Your problem is your mindset, not that those bad, bitchy women all have it easier than you. Edit: @thirtythree: A big part what I forgot is, you have to differentiate between a woman who goes out to be admired and liked to boost their ego and a woman who goes out to hook up. That's where most of the image comes from. Lots of hot and dressed up girls do it to make themselves feel good, but not to have sex with someone. | ||
|
RaspberrySC2
United States168 Posts
Why wouldn't I do that? It's because I need to trust that they are competent enough to provide what is important to me... or at the very least be aware of it so that they can try. I don't get anything out of being fucked because a guy thinks I'm attractive and wants to get his junk wet. | ||
|
Snotling
Germany885 Posts
On February 25 2012 04:01 RaspberrySC2 wrote: I have guys lined around the block wanting to get in my pants. I don't have sex with any of them. Why wouldn't I do that? It's because I need to trust that they are competent enough to provide what is important to me... or at the very least be aware of it so that they can try. I don't get anything out of being fucked because a guy thinks I'm attractive and wants to get his junk wet. so you dont like sex? (sorry, had to :D ) | ||
|
Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
Newsflash: WOMEN ARE JUST AS INSECURE AS MEN WHEN IT COMES TO GIRL/GUY STUFF. Even worse, since girls aren't used to guys who have strong game they look like absolute stupid bunnies if they want to hook up with a guy who actually is high value. The issue here which you ignore is it's guys doing all the approaching and leading and making things happen, not girls. I wouldn't complain at all if I could just sit around and girls approached me and I was basically the judge of them of whether or not I should bother having anything to do with them. Actually, that would be pretty sweet. You almost make it sound like a bad thing girls haha. Again, double standards and limiting believes. You're saying a women "is set as long she isn't an obese cow"? Set with what? With a random dork who has no life, no perspective but marries her and gets her pregnant? A man on the other side has to be superman to get a cool girl? What you're really arguing here is that you're pissed that you are (or were) someone who had/as to invest time and effort into obtaining a normal sexlife. That's why you're looking at the examples where it's easy for a female and the examples where it's hard as a male. Like, really? First, I will say that my point is that guys have to put in a lot more effort than girls. Nothing else. To ignore this is to basically admit that you never go out. Last I checked, it was dudes hitting on girls, not the other way around. Even if it's a random dork (it usually never the best choice if is if the girl is anything remotely attractive), at least they're getting hit on with little to no effort in comparison to dudes. Now to continue.. Okay, the main thing you're proving here is Germany is 9 billion times different from America. Seriously, I live in Southern California, you know, the place famous worldwide for its beaches, women, and everything else awesome. It's exaggerated a bit, I'll say that XD. Anyways, almost everywhere I go, among all the people I've seen and met, many of the relationships I've seen, even people I've gotten to know pretty well, are the guy being noticeably (even for a straight guy like me to notice) more attractive than the girl (at least when the girl only spent 10 min rather than 60 putting on make-up), dude is more fun and excitable than the girl, and more level-headed, and more talkative with strangers. My point is that the guy is on a much higher level than the girl. I guess the explanation for this is that a lot of guys are desperate. I'm guessing dudes aren't desperate in Germany?? Yeah, girls who do nothing but wake up in the morning, don't eat McD's all day, are okay socially (mostly gossip at that...) and put on a bit of make-up can still high prospects too, especially if their face is nice. I've seen this happen often and talked to lots of girls about what they do. It's almost silly. > Keep below obese. > Put on a bit of make-up. > Go to events/parties. > You'll see better looking, fun party dudes hit on them. So what I'm looking at is what I'll admit is a bit of a generalization, but it happens far too often. That's besides the point anyways. Yeah, I'm a guy who's all about equality and freedom and I buy into the "equal gender" stuff, as untrue as it is when it comes to establishing/maintaining relationships. I'll admit based off that I'm a bit bitter that supposedly equal genders are apparently not equal at all. THIS is my limiting belief. That I'm committed to these statutes of equality and other things, when the reality of the matter is, except in those relationships where the dude is a whipped bitch (and I know plenty of dudes in those), the man is supposed to ALWAYS (not within proportions of fairness like I have done in some relationships) be in charge, make the decisions, and give little leeway. Most problems men have when trying to find a suitable mate come from being hurt in the past and therefore being scared and afraid. Most problems women have when trying to find a suitable mate... come from being hurt in the past and therefore being scared and afraid. I've been hurt before, badly, but I don't think I'm scared and afraid. My hurt was different from what you may be thinking like issues with the girl. One of my first relationships was with a girl whose parents basically thought I was really awesome. Around when I was 16, they figured out I wasn't actually white European-descended (although my skin is white and my facial features can pass easily as southern euro and I was a born-and-raised Christian), and just made a 180 degree turn in sentiments. It was fucking brutal. By far the worst experience, but I can't say I'm scared... That said, I've found suitable mates, it's that they're really hard to come by. Most guys will literally settle for whatever, other guys will just settle for a girl who is just decently attractive. As for me, my standards are too high. If they aren't decently attractive, somewhere noticeably near a good intellectual and thoughtful level, and aren't bipolar harpies, it's a nogo for me. Problem is those girls are really fucking rare. THIS is another limiting belief. My standards are too high. What it boils down is that (I'm pulling the numbers out of my ass but the concept stays the same) 90% of the men would prefer to fuck 10% of the women on this planet and 90% of the women would prefer to fuck 10% of the men on this planet. Pickup, for both females and males, can be condensed to the goal being to take fears and anxiety from the person you're trying to hook up with away to have fun together and enjoy a cool time together. Women are just as afraid as men. Once you understand this concept you'll be able to build comfort/rapport like a boss. I can say I've been with girls who have what I'd call strong female game and those who don't and the difference is like day and night. Yeah, I agree with you. However, in my experience, it's always me getting over my own anxiety while comforting theirs. What is this you speak of of girls trying to help me feel comfortable? They've never done that. :s I think if I need to do anything right now imo, it's get really pretty aesthetically strong again. Let's face it. it's basically a hook. You hook a fish, and then you just have to reel it in. However, if you have a bad rod/bait/hook, you aren't going to get the fish interested from the outset. I've been on both sides of the fence, and it really does fucking help a ton to be in amazing shape. Btw, if you're ever in the US in NY or CA, good luck with Asian girls, not the rare sociable type, but the type indoctrinated to be completely anti-social with strangers, raised around asians their whole life and feel completely out of their comfort zone otherwise, and most especially to mistrust non-Asians. They're a completely different ballgame. Easily the biggest challenge I've had, but it was worth it  . If anything, it's been a big confidence builder.PS: Take a random magazine for girls/woman, read it and you'll understand why the general female population is better than the general male population at this stuff. Yeah, almost every girl I know does. And you know what they do, at least the girls who go out and stuff? They just stand around, hopefully someone hits on them, etc. Maybe a few actually do anything else. This is being good at this stuff? I'd say guys are better. Sure, you go to a lounge or event and most guys are talking about "omg look at that girl over there", and won't do anything, but at least there are guys who do do something, whereas girls will take no initiative or take any sort of attempt to make themselves seem interested. What precisely are you referring to? Limiting belief, hi. Your problem is your mindset, not that those bad, bitchy women all have it easier than you. Don't take quotes out of context. This statement was in regard to a specific scenario as the preceding sentences show. I'm a university student. Because of really bad problems and whatnot at home, I had to skip out on Cal or an Ivy League to stay at home and sort things out for my family's sake. I go to a univ near my home, which is pretty good, but obv isn't the best opportunity I had. Done with the qq'ing background story, point is I don't live on/near campus like nearly all (99%?) the students do. I also don't have a local community of people I know to fall back on, and all my old HS pals are gone nearly the whole year all over the country. My point in that part was that when every other option a college girl has is 10x more convenient and accessible, unless you are literally better than almost every other option they have (and they have pretty good ones), you're shit out of luck. I've seen on quite a few occasions a girl's mood just totally switch when she asks where I live and I say ~10 miles south, ie. not in the dorms, or huge ass apt. complexes right within walking distance of campus and everyone else. That's why I said you really have to be a wizard to make things happen in this scenario. On February 25 2012 04:42 Snotling wrote: so you dont like sex? (sorry, had to :D ) Who cares, but what she is doing is proving my point that it's a ton easier for girls. Even when she isn't looking to have sex, even when she is on top of that against having sex to a more extreme degree than most people, she isn't even TRYING to get sex, and yet she still has a ton of guys hitting on her. Meanwhile, even dudes who know the moves and grooves have to put in a ton of effort and have a ton of interest in that sort of thing. Males who have the same demeanor and sentiments as Raspberry have no chance at all, whereas all a girl like Raspberry needs to do is say "I'll put down my shield because I just want to get fucked now" and it happens easily given what she said in her first sentence. It's just a fact of life :p. A guy can't do that, because girls don't "line up" on guys. While girls, like Raspberry, can be completely disinterested and aloof and still have ton of prospects, dudes won't get shit unless they really, really try at it (assuming they actually go after something decent in comparison to themselves; a lot guys go after much lower). | ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
Yes, its incredibly easy for a girl to get hit on. Yes, they get hit on all the time. The main point is: It is just as hard, if not harder, for a girl to hook up with a man she thinks is cute compared to a man. Yeah, I agree with you. However, in my experience, it's always me getting over my own anxiety while comforting theirs. What is this you speak of of girls trying to help me feel comfortable? They've never done that. :s ...that's what girls learn for example if they're into pickup. A lot of it really comes from helplessness and established social models. "So I met this guy who was totally cute, and then I looked at him and he looked away." - that might be the typical female approach which failed. It's just way less spectacular than a guy walking over saying "Hi, I think you're cute." but it's the same concept. Basicly your assumption is this: Girl has lots of guys admiring her -> gets easy access to sex. Guy has to work to be admired by girls -> has harder access to sex. You're looking at how much the typical PUA does to get his girl and then look at how a typical girl does nothing compared to him. What I'm trying to convey is that the jump from "is admired" to "has sex with someone" is WAY bigger for girls than for guys. For a guy basicly any female in his social circle is a potential hook up, for a girl most men in her social circle are potential protectors/providers, but not potential hook ups. Basicly what I'm saying is that there's a reason why you hear so much "WOW YOURE SO DIFFERENT ITS SO HARD TO FIND A COOL GUY" as someone who's into seduction. tl;dr: Women don't have it easy. I'm cool with you saying "they got it easier than men", but something like "WOW ITS SO EASY FOR WOMEN THEY GET WHO THEY WANT LOL AND I HAVE TO BE SUPERMAN" is something where I belief the guy is lying to himself to find excuses. That's why I find that statement inacceptable. The reason why I'm even against "they got it easier than men" might not be because I believe it's true, but it's a part of my mindset which makes me successfull with women. As long as I believe that she is more scared than me or has it harder to find cool guys than I have it to find cool girls I'm putting myself into a position where suddenly whatever challenge arises is easier than with your mindset. | ||
|
RaspberrySC2
United States168 Posts
On February 25 2012 04:42 Snotling wrote: so you dont like sex? (sorry, had to :D ) Who cares, but what she is doing is proving my point that it's a ton easier for girls. Even when she isn't looking to have sex, even when she is on top of that against having sex to a more extreme degree than most people, she isn't even TRYING to get sex, and yet she still has a ton of guys hitting on her. Meanwhile, even dudes who know the moves and grooves have to put in a ton of effort and have a ton of interest in that sort of thing. Males who have the same demeanor and sentiments have no chance at all, whereas all a girl like Raspberry needs to do is say "I'll put down my shield because I just want to get fucked now" and it happens easily given what she said in her first sentence. It's just a fact of life :p. A guy can't do that, because girls don't "line up" on guys. While girls, like Raspberry, can be completely disinterested and aloof and still have ton of prospects, dudes won't get shit unless they really, really try at it (assuming they actually go after something decent in comparison to themselves; a lot guys go after much lower). I think what needs to be realized is that sometimes the goals are different. I like sensual sex. Most guys, in my experience, just want a cum receptacle (To put it kind of harshly). Of course, I'm only speaking for myself and from my own perspective. I just see it as having self-respect and not settling for trying to pretend that whoever it is that is deriving pleasure from my body actually likes me for who I am instead of viewing me as a glorified Tenga egg. To actually try to be helpful for this thread, there are women out there who do enjoy just casual sex. Just because it's not for me doesn't mean it's not for everyone so there are probably those out there who do get a different satisfaction from it that I may not be able to imagine very well. I think the key to either hooking up with someone or having a relationship with them is to treat them like a real person. I think we all generally like people who we can be friends with because friends look out fro each other and do things for each other that aren't entirely self-serving. Like... the idea that bros will look out for each other and straight up lie to the girlfriend or spouse of another bro to cover for him. I totally dig people who would do that for me (not that I'd ask them to, it's the sentiment that counts) and would be more likely to let myself be vulnerable around them... it's because I know they got my back and are in it for more than themselves. I dunno if any of this is making sense to any of you. I'll put this next piece of advice in spoilers because it could be traumatic to some readers: + Show Spoiler + If you're interested in a girl, behave around her like you would a sister you've had your entire life. That sounds incestuous I know, but think about it. You can't hide your authentic self from a sibling for your entire life. I, for one, can sniff out posers really easily. Authenticity is a turn on. Being cared about (like you would your sister) is a turn on. Not holding back while not objectifying is a turn on. I dare say that "we" (being the female population) being so casually inundated with offers for sex and guys trying to fuck us that we just have more experience choosing what we want. I hate working with generalizations so again, from my own experience, it seems like men generally have needs that are fulfilled with the physical and generally don't experience much vulnerability once the sex starts (unless they have general insecurities about penis size or premature ejaculation... both of which I find adorable, but I never tell anyone because they feel emasculated if I do). I, on the other hand, can't enjoy sex without emotion or feeling or some kind of connection. That's just me though. I don't think that there's anything wrong with any of this. I'm just saying that while I can recognize that men generally have needs in the physical realm and I will be ok with embracing that for them, *my* needs are in the emotional realm and I'd need someone who can try to embrace that for me. Otherwise, it feels like a one-way street and I'm not having my needs reciprocated. *edited for formatting, spelling and grammar errors and to remove unnecessary sentence... i'm so bad at writing * | ||
|
squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
| ||
|
couches
618 Posts
On February 25 2012 04:44 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Actually they do(unless you're a...well, fat nasty cow), and the line is usually composed of people you wouldn't want to get with for whatever reason.A guy can't do that, because girls don't "line up" on guys. While girls, like Raspberry, can be completely disinterested and aloof and still have ton of prospects, dudes won't get shit unless they really, really try at it (assuming they actually go after something decent in comparison to themselves; a lot guys go after much lower). They are just more subtle about it...sometimes. At least until they notice obvious competition. | ||
|
Sotamursu
Finland612 Posts
Female game I'd imagine is something along the lines of this. | ||
|
RaspberrySC2
United States168 Posts
On February 25 2012 05:51 squattincassanova wrote: Why is there a female in the PUA thread? They give terrible advice. I was curious. I'd also suggest that maybe you see the advice as terrible because you don't know how to use it? I did my best to reinforce that all of this was from my personal experience and I also pointed out as best I could when I was using generalizations. As another piece of advice, I would suggest that a good way to take advice is not as something that is an absolute, clear, answer as much as just a relating of subjective experience with subjective lessons learned. There is no one true way with people. Different people have different needs in different quantities. I just contend that the sooner people can grasp this and actually pay attention to someone else and what *their* needs are, the more likely that individual will have their own needs taken into consideration and met. Take from it what you will, but there's no need to be insulting :/ In short, people aren't machines or computer programs. Expecting them to be what you want them to be is going to hold you back more than anything. | ||
|
sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On February 25 2012 05:51 squattincassanova wrote: Why is there a female in the PUA thread? They give terrible advice. Come on this is a really low quality post. First of all everyone is entitled to express themselves on TL as long as they don't use memes, spoil matches or flame people. Secondly, what the hell IS this? It's almost like you are afraid of a girl stumbling across your D&D club?? Come on, man! | ||
|
squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
On February 25 2012 06:32 sc4k wrote: Come on this is a really low quality post. First of all everyone is entitled to express themselves on TL as long as they don't use memes, spoil matches or flame people. Secondly, what the hell IS this? It's almost like you are afraid of a girl stumbling across your D&D club?? Come on, man! I tell girls im a nerd all the time. In fact, I have had dates where I invite the girl to watch me play video games lmao. | ||
|
sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
| ||
|
TotalNightmare
Germany139 Posts
| ||
| ||
