On February 24 2012 02:15 squattincassanova wrote:
On February 23 2012 22:09 niteReloaded wrote:
On February 23 2012 04:16 squattincassanova wrote: I always have a game plan. I always plan the logistics ahead of time. I always Yelp my god damn fucking restaurants or have been there myself and know a few top choices to recommend. I always lead. Lead Lead Lead. Leading in itself causes a lot of attraction.
Now if she happens to hate that restaurant, I will pick a second one. If she absolutely wants to got a specific one, then that's fine too but being a man, I am still going to be the first to make a recommendation.
Do you actually enjoy leading?
Whether you like it or not, its a quality you should adopt. Its like asking another man "do you enjoy being confident?". Doesn't matter if he enjoys it or not.... if he wants to better himself, he better lead. Its probably one of the top 5 traits a man should have. Look at leaders, managers, people of high status. They ALL lead and because of that, people follow.
First, feeling confident feels fucking awesome. I say feeling confident, because being confident may also mean 'acting confident'='faking confidence' which is lame or a starting crutch in the best case.
Second, would you say all girls love to be led to the same degree?
My points are that if you fake something, you may actually deter the people(girls and everyone else) who would like your original personality traits.
Whats interesting is that emotions on the inside gets reflected on your body language on the outside. The reverse is also true. I learned this from acting class. Lets say you are in a neutral mood. When you make a smiling expression, you do get a slight feeling of happiness. When you make a sad face, your brain generates a slight sad feeling.
Basically your body likes to be congruent with your thoughts and your actions.
So what happens when you want to learn confidence and you aren't quite there yet? Fake it till you make it. Believe it or not, acting confident on the exterior over time, will improve confidence internally.
People say "don't fake it, you aren't being real" and I say that's bullshit. We have an upper conscious part of our brain that can override our deep down guttural feelings. This is why people can be scared and consciously chose to do brave things. Think about the alternative strategy. What other options DO you have? You don't. You can't just wish confidence. You have to ACT confident, DO confident things. Eventually your internal compass will align with your actions because your body wants to be congruent.
On February 24 2012 02:35 niteReloaded wrote: Second, would you say all girls love to be led to the same degree?
Every girl is different to some extent. We already went over this. Every girl is a case by case. There are general rules or trends but there are always exceptions. Hell, not all girls even like men. Some are lesbians. You could be the sexiest guy in the world who is amazing at everything and that chick wont even dig you. Is that not enough proof that there are exceptions to everything?
On February 24 2012 02:35 niteReloaded wrote: Second, would you say all girls love to be led to the same degree?
Every girl is different to some extent. We already went over this. Every girl is a case by case. There are general rules or trends but there are always exceptions. Hell, not all girls even like men. Some are lesbians. You could be the sexiest guy in the world who is amazing at everything and that chick wont even dig you. Is that not enough proof that there are exceptions to everything?
Then what happens if you're a guy who's not naturally into leading too much, but you decide to be more of a leader, and the girl you're seeing concludes that you're too self absorbed, or that you don't ask for her opinion enough, that she doesn't need you to be her daddy and make all the decisions.
Then the relationship snaps because you're not what she wants in a man, when what she wants is what the real you already is.
That's my problem with faking and trying too hard... but of course, this is coming more from a relationship paradigm, while you're currently more focused in the getting laid as much as possible, so it's a different philosophy I guess.
On February 24 2012 02:51 squattincassanova wrote:
On February 24 2012 02:35 niteReloaded wrote: Second, would you say all girls love to be led to the same degree?
Every girl is different to some extent. We already went over this. Every girl is a case by case. There are general rules or trends but there are always exceptions. Hell, not all girls even like men. Some are lesbians. You could be the sexiest guy in the world who is amazing at everything and that chick wont even dig you. Is that not enough proof that there are exceptions to everything?
Then what happens if you're a guy who's not naturally into leading too much, but you decide to be more of a leader, and the girl you're seeing concludes that you're too self absorbed, or that you don't ask for her opinion enough, that she doesn't need you to be her daddy and make all the decisions.
Then the relationship snaps because you're not what she wants in a man, when what she wants is what the real you already is.
That's my problem with faking and trying too hard... but of course, this is coming more from a relationship paradigm, while you're currently more focused in the getting laid as much as possible, so it's a different philosophy I guess.
A big part of working on yourself (hint: this does not equal working on getting laid as much as possible) is devoloping your character, working on your weaknesses and recognizing your strengths.
For most people I know when it comes to topics like "dominance" past a certain point you don't see a point in trying to find a girl who doesn't suit your personality. For me it's for example pretty damn rare to find a girl / woman who does not behave submissive in a sexual context to me when it comes to flirting/seducing. However, those who don't behave like that are simply not interesting for me either.
If you'd have asked me 4 years ago if I'm more the dominant type or not I'd have said "I guess not, that stuff isn't for me", by playing around I found out that this is what I enjoy the most in sexual relationships. By accepting that I was able to slowly let my behaviour show that to people I interact with. --> Once your behaviour reflects what you REALLY want you start attracting the girls (or people rather) who share the same taste naturally.
I'm a huge advocat of playing around with extremes to find out what you really like. Once you're aware of your likes/dislikes you start to appreciate certain qualities in other people more or less. From that point you can start forming your social environment in a way that you personally enjoy the most.
Oh, wow. I think I have to doublepost for this since it's a different topic. Just saw Chills stronk comment a few pages back:
On February 22 2012 03:31 Chill wrote: You see a lot of condemnation. I see it as reactionary. I think this game is great and people should do whatever they want. They should use strategy to have the best efficiency possible. But don't try to make the argument that your way of living is better than the alternatives and don't use psyedoscience referencing how we lived before society formed to justify what you're doing.
I wish people used this thread to understand the process and strategy better. I wish they didn't use it to justify or condemn the actions.
That's it
...which was pretty much a response to this:
On February 22 2012 03:22 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote: That's really where it's at with women. Survival and replication. It's evolutionary. Back in tribal days the male who could best offer a woman a chance to survive and reproduce (and obv. from a biology perspective those who do not reproduce are irrelevant) was the tribal Chieftan or his friends. women are attracted to 'bad' or 'dangerous' men in part because they believe (consciously or unconsciously) that they can handle difficult situations. This is also why women are attracted to strong and dominant males.
...which is mostly filled with false assumptions which aren't backed up by either science or what's accepted as "PUA theory".
Yes, the evolutionary goal of basicly any race is to survive and replicate. I guess this part needs no big scientific backing up. However you're trying to get from that that women are attracted to strong/dominant males. This is plain bullshit without context.
"Being dominant" means to seem like someone who is able to "lead and to protect".
"Being strong" means to seem like someone who is able to physically fight for "his tribe".
The part where your logic is failing is the "seem like someone"-part. Women are attracted to males who convey certain characteristics. Neither dominance nor strength are included there, especially not if you consider Mysteries model of the whole thing.
In fact, I'd go as far as saying that Pickup is built on the pretense that you don't have to HAVE alpha male characteristics, but that you have to be able to CONVEY them.
While imo the best approach is to actively work on oneself as a decent human being (which somehow "accidently" ends up with you displaying "alpha male characteristics"), pure conveying of them certainly works as well if it's just about a short thing with no long dating phase.
Personally I know enough "PUAs" who get laid on a regular basis just to get dumped 1-2 weeks later because their material runs out. Literally. Most of those usually end up going sarging more to get a glimpse of verification and approval from the next girl just to call her a stupid bitch they didn't want anyway once she finds out what's really going on. Yes, those people are part of the community. Yes, they get laid with their methods. That doesn't mean it's good aiming to be like one of those guys.
On February 24 2012 02:51 squattincassanova wrote:
On February 24 2012 02:35 niteReloaded wrote: Second, would you say all girls love to be led to the same degree?
Every girl is different to some extent. We already went over this. Every girl is a case by case. There are general rules or trends but there are always exceptions. Hell, not all girls even like men. Some are lesbians. You could be the sexiest guy in the world who is amazing at everything and that chick wont even dig you. Is that not enough proof that there are exceptions to everything?
Then what happens if you're a guy who's not naturally into leading too much, but you decide to be more of a leader, and the girl you're seeing concludes that you're too self absorbed, or that you don't ask for her opinion enough, that she doesn't need you to be her daddy and make all the decisions.
Then the relationship snaps because you're not what she wants in a man, when what she wants is what the real you already is.
That's my problem with faking and trying too hard... but of course, this is coming more from a relationship paradigm, while you're currently more focused in the getting laid as much as possible, so it's a different philosophy I guess.
Bro, you can be a leader and lead and still be kind and considerate. Nobody is telling you to take anything wack and out of proportion. Bottom line is, have a game plan and not a clueless fuck. You're recommending a suggestion for a date or hang out. You aren't forcing her. I'm not telling you to find out shes vegetarian and then force her to go to a god damn steak house. A girl wants a guy who knows where hes going and has a sense of direction. By leading, you take the burden out of her hands to lead. When you take a girl out on a date, she just wants to have fun. She doesn't want to manage logistics for you. Its your job as a man to know where you're going to go, how you are going to get there, what is the wait time, what to bring. All of that.
But if you're always stuck saying "Well I dunno, what do you wanna do?" on everything, maybe you should lead more. Most cases, the girl is going to lose respect for you. How you going to protect her? How are you going to provide for her if you can't make simple basic decisions? She's subconsciously thinking that.
I think it was 2005 when I first saw the David D'angelo Double Your Dating rips. For me it had a huge impact on my 'inner game' and confidence. Not that I suddeny started picking up lots of chicks but it put everything in perspective and I made sure that I wouldn't waste my student time. Some that read the PUA stuff really get into the picking up chicks part, for others it's nice to learn about confidence, manlihood, how life works and what you want to get out of it.
By now I've got my masters degree, backpacked around the world by myself, go out almost every weekend, have lots of friends and landed a pretty decent job. Ironically I haven't had a girlfriend for more than a month. Personally I think that watching some of the 'PUA' seminars helped me to increase my happiness.
So yeah imho there's something in the PUA material for everyone.
A big part of working on yourself (hint: this does not equal working on getting laid as much as possible) is devoloping your character, working on your weaknesses and recognizing your strengths.
Just kinda quoted this because it kinda goes hand in hand with what happened to me today.
Little bit of background. We are in groups in my bio lab. We just got new groups and couldn't be with anybody we were previously with. I wasn't there last week, so I was put into somebodies group.
I was sitting next to a dude. I found myself acting how I used to (basically just laughing a lot without any real reason. I think some people might say supplicating? I dunno). Anyways, I wasn't cool with this behavior and I noticed it about half way through. I sat back and shook my head, before trying to act like I wanted to.
Did I still laugh? Yeah. I mean it was a good time I guess. But I didn't want to sit there like a school girl, laughing at every little joke the dude or other group members said.
The other part was me making a suggestion about one of the variables we found. I explained myself and some chick was just straight up like no. I get what your saying. She said she was just being brutal and apologized, and then said that she forgot to tell me it was volcanic rock and stuff on these islands. Later I found myself telling a friend this, thought she was standing over on the other side, and quickly added that she was probably right blahblah. Basically, I was afraid of causing any conflict between us, and added that only because I didn't want to cause some kind of conflict.
Then again, maybe it was because I didn't want to seem like I was mad or something. It's just the fact that I retracted my words in a heart beat.
Sorry for how jumpy that was, I'm writing this out because it makes it easier to think about.
Anyways, so there are a few things I learned. First of all, I'm still not as strong as I want to be. If I'm with a completely new group of people I'll revert back to how I used to act. Mostly because my personality always worked for me in the past; sure people liked me. But it isn't who I want to be. I still care about what people think, but less than I used to. I am proud that I quickly noticed it and tried to stop it. I think I was about 80% successful. But I can't really remember, I was focused on getting shit done.
That being said, I still care too much what people think. Being social might be important, but not at a sacrifice of character.
I've come pretty far, but I still have far to go to be who I want.
Edit: Then again, I guess you could argue that social situations are far different than when your in a lab group situation. Who knows
I'm suddenly curious: are there many women in the PUA community? Or an equivalent community with mostly women in it? If it's so much about "improving yourself" and/or "becoming a better person", why wouldn't there be women in there?
On February 24 2012 12:49 Yenticha wrote: I'm suddenly curious: are there many women in the PUA community? Or an equivalent community with mostly women in it? If it's so much about "improving yourself" and/or "becoming a better person", why wouldn't there be women in there?
there are female PUA communities. i know a german one.
also, when a woman wants to "become a better person", she would rather do other self help stuff than PU, cause she gets sex anyway.
A big part of working on yourself (hint: this does not equal working on getting laid as much as possible) is devoloping your character, working on your weaknesses and recognizing your strengths.
Just kinda quoted this because it kinda goes hand in hand with what happened to me today.
Little bit of background. We are in groups in my bio lab. We just got new groups and couldn't be with anybody we were previously with. I wasn't there last week, so I was put into somebodies group.
I was sitting next to a dude. I found myself acting how I used to (basically just laughing a lot without any real reason. I think some people might say supplicating? I dunno). Anyways, I wasn't cool with this behavior and I noticed it about half way through. I sat back and shook my head, before trying to act like I wanted to.
Did I still laugh? Yeah. I mean it was a good time I guess. But I didn't want to sit there like a school girl, laughing at every little joke the dude or other group members said.
The other part was me making a suggestion about one of the variables we found. I explained myself and some chick was just straight up like no. I get what your saying. She said she was just being brutal and apologized, and then said that she forgot to tell me it was volcanic rock and stuff on these islands. Later I found myself telling a friend this, thought she was standing over on the other side, and quickly added that she was probably right blahblah. Basically, I was afraid of causing any conflict between us, and added that only because I didn't want to cause some kind of conflict.
Then again, maybe it was because I didn't want to seem like I was mad or something. It's just the fact that I retracted my words in a heart beat.
Sorry for how jumpy that was, I'm writing this out because it makes it easier to think about.
Anyways, so there are a few things I learned. First of all, I'm still not as strong as I want to be. If I'm with a completely new group of people I'll revert back to how I used to act. Mostly because my personality always worked for me in the past; sure people liked me. But it isn't who I want to be. I still care about what people think, but less than I used to. I am proud that I quickly noticed it and tried to stop it. I think I was about 80% successful. But I can't really remember, I was focused on getting shit done.
That being said, I still care too much what people think. Being social might be important, but not at a sacrifice of character.
I've come pretty far, but I still have far to go to be who I want.
Edit: Then again, I guess you could argue that social situations are far different than when your in a lab group situation. Who knows
I don't understand. You attempted to avoid conflict. How is that bad?
Secondly, I'm not sure how not caring, or actively caring, what other people think of you is a sign of any particular shade of character.
A big part of working on yourself (hint: this does not equal working on getting laid as much as possible) is devoloping your character, working on your weaknesses and recognizing your strengths.
Just kinda quoted this because it kinda goes hand in hand with what happened to me today.
Little bit of background. We are in groups in my bio lab. We just got new groups and couldn't be with anybody we were previously with. I wasn't there last week, so I was put into somebodies group.
I was sitting next to a dude. I found myself acting how I used to (basically just laughing a lot without any real reason. I think some people might say supplicating? I dunno). Anyways, I wasn't cool with this behavior and I noticed it about half way through. I sat back and shook my head, before trying to act like I wanted to.
Did I still laugh? Yeah. I mean it was a good time I guess. But I didn't want to sit there like a school girl, laughing at every little joke the dude or other group members said.
The other part was me making a suggestion about one of the variables we found. I explained myself and some chick was just straight up like no. I get what your saying. She said she was just being brutal and apologized, and then said that she forgot to tell me it was volcanic rock and stuff on these islands. Later I found myself telling a friend this, thought she was standing over on the other side, and quickly added that she was probably right blahblah. Basically, I was afraid of causing any conflict between us, and added that only because I didn't want to cause some kind of conflict.
Then again, maybe it was because I didn't want to seem like I was mad or something. It's just the fact that I retracted my words in a heart beat.
Sorry for how jumpy that was, I'm writing this out because it makes it easier to think about.
Anyways, so there are a few things I learned. First of all, I'm still not as strong as I want to be. If I'm with a completely new group of people I'll revert back to how I used to act. Mostly because my personality always worked for me in the past; sure people liked me. But it isn't who I want to be. I still care about what people think, but less than I used to. I am proud that I quickly noticed it and tried to stop it. I think I was about 80% successful. But I can't really remember, I was focused on getting shit done.
That being said, I still care too much what people think. Being social might be important, but not at a sacrifice of character.
I've come pretty far, but I still have far to go to be who I want.
Edit: Then again, I guess you could argue that social situations are far different than when your in a lab group situation. Who knows
I don't understand. You attempted to avoid conflict. How is that bad?
Secondly, I'm not sure how not caring, or actively caring, what other people think of you is a sign of any particular shade of character.
Hm. I'm not saying avoiding conflict is bad, I just feel that going back on my word just because they are around isn't cool. If I wasn't cool saying it to her face, shouldn't of said it kinda thing, ya dig?
It's not, but it is when it has me shaping my character in hopes for other people to like me. Trust me, I like being a social guy. But I felt like I wasn't being social, I was just being who I knew they would like. I felt like I reverted, basically.
Idunno, I'm still trying to figure it out, hence why I posted and am writing all this stuff out.
On February 24 2012 12:49 Yenticha wrote: I'm suddenly curious: are there many women in the PUA community? Or an equivalent community with mostly women in it? If it's so much about "improving yourself" and/or "becoming a better person", why wouldn't there be women in there?
there are female PUA communities. i know a german one.
also, when a woman wants to "become a better person", she would rather do other self help stuff than PU, cause she gets sex anyway.
wait, I thought PUA were NOT about getting sex? that it was about becoming better? In that case, why couldn't a woman follow the whole PUA thing? And pursue ONLY super high quality males?
I am just trying to understand what are the reasons behind the whole PUA thing. Before reading this thread, my (uninformed) opinion was like "something people who have no real passion in life do. They do it to fill this void, by getting whatever society says is a good thing for males (strenght, confidence, money, appearances, women, etc".
My opinion is still exactly the same. Because up to now I don't really understand the "becoming better", as this very concept is, for me, either impossible to define (what is "better"?), or just doesnt match the goals posted around here (being strong, leading conversations, being able to protect women). So I'm trying a different angle (= "what about women in PUA?") to see if I can change it.
Note that I am not against improvement (lol), but I think it has to be more specific. Like "I want to improve my speaking skills in front of large crowds, because my job, that I like, requires me to do so".
wait, I thought PUA were NOT about getting sex? that it was about becoming better? In that case, why couldn't a woman follow the whole PUA thing? And pursue ONLY super high quality males?
It's not ONLY about getting sex, but sex is still a large part of PUA. Becoming better as a person is a natural part of the process. If you push learn to become better with woman, you are going to be more naturally confident in other social situations as well (ie: a business meeting). In addition, PUA teaches that confidence comes from being able to take pride in yourself in order to form a core self-confidence. This comes from getting your shit handled, whether it be at the gym, at the workplace, etc.
As far as women following pick-up, you have to understand that from a purely sexual standpoint, a woman can really just walk up to a guy and think "yup, I think I want you tonight", and fuck him with zero effort. This is why we have things like trophy wives and sugar daddies. The whole self-help industry (not pickup particularly) is, if I remember correctly, targeted more towards women. It is still these core principles of self-confidence and getting your life under control that they seek, but, as I said before, you have to understand that from a sexual attraction standpoint, Man --> Woman is SUCH a different dynamic from Woman --> Man.
I am just trying to understand what are the reasons behind the whole PUA thing. Before reading this thread, my (uninformed) opinion was like "something people who have no real passion in life do. They do it to fill this void, by getting whatever society says is a good thing for males (strenght, confidence, money, appearances, women, etc".
The reasons behind it are many. A lot of men have zero success with women, and want to improve their dating/sex life. A lot of men have minor success and want to get higher quality women (note: higher quality is not necessarly based on looks alone, but each man has different criteria both for what they want in a woman, and what type of relationship they are looking to pursue - and vice versa). Still others are able to look at pickup, as previously discussed, as a way with which to improve in many aspects of their life, such as social confidence, expanding their social circle, or even just as a hobby that will strengthen as other "self-help" based activities (like working out) improve, and these are just a few of the reasons.
My opinion is still exactly the same. Because up to now I don't really understand the "becoming better", as this very concept is, for me, either impossible to define (what is "better"?), or just doesnt match the goals posted around here (being strong, leading conversations, being able to protect women). So I'm trying a different angle (= "what about women in PUA?") to see if I can change it.
Note that I am not against improvement (lol), but I think it has to be more specific. Like "I want to improve my speaking skills in front of large crowds, because my job, that I like, requires me to do so".
Hopefully I've cleared up some of this shit for you, especially about the "becoming better" as a person in general.
wait, I thought PUA were NOT about getting sex? that it was about becoming better? In that case, why couldn't a woman follow the whole PUA thing? And pursue ONLY super high quality males?
It's not ONLY about getting sex, but sex is still a large part of PUA. Becoming better as a person is a natural part of the process. If you push learn to become better with woman, you are going to be more naturally confident in other social situations as well (ie: a business meeting). In addition, PUA teaches that confidence comes from being able to take pride in yourself in order to form a core self-confidence. This comes from getting your shit handled, whether it be at the gym, at the workplace, etc.
As far as women following pick-up, you have to understand that from a purely sexual standpoint, a woman can really just walk up to a guy and think "yup, I think I want you tonight", and fuck him with zero effort. This is why we have things like trophy wives and sugar daddies. The whole self-help industry (not pickup particularly) is, if I remember correctly, targeted more towards women. It is still these core principles of self-confidence and getting your life under control that they seek, but, as I said before, you have to understand that from a sexual attraction standpoint, Man --> Woman is SUCH a different dynamic from Woman --> Man.
I am just trying to understand what are the reasons behind the whole PUA thing. Before reading this thread, my (uninformed) opinion was like "something people who have no real passion in life do. They do it to fill this void, by getting whatever society says is a good thing for males (strenght, confidence, money, appearances, women, etc".
The reasons behind it are many. A lot of men have zero success with women, and want to improve their dating/sex life. A lot of men have minor success and want to get higher quality women (note: higher quality is not necessarly based on looks alone, but each man has different criteria both for what they want in a woman, and what type of relationship they are looking to pursue - and vice versa). Still others are able to look at pickup, as previously discussed, as a way with which to improve in many aspects of their life, such as social confidence, expanding their social circle, or even just as a hobby that will strengthen as other "self-help" based activities (like working out) improve, and these are just a few of the reasons.
My opinion is still exactly the same. Because up to now I don't really understand the "becoming better", as this very concept is, for me, either impossible to define (what is "better"?), or just doesnt match the goals posted around here (being strong, leading conversations, being able to protect women). So I'm trying a different angle (= "what about women in PUA?") to see if I can change it.
Note that I am not against improvement (lol), but I think it has to be more specific. Like "I want to improve my speaking skills in front of large crowds, because my job, that I like, requires me to do so".
Hopefully I've cleared up some of this shit for you, especially about the "becoming better" as a person in general.
Ok thanks it kinda makes sense now. I'll see it as some sort of "working out" group, except that its not about getting fit, but use successful pick ups as confidence boosting/happiness feeling.
As for the women getting laid easily, I have to (partly) disagree. Yes, any woman can get hobbo sex with a random stranger. BUT, if she is pursuing something else (like good sex, or fun partner, or respectful partner, or confidence, or all of the above), it might be more difficult. If confidence is a central concern, then I think there should be a difference made between "meat sex", and "fun/good sex". These are two very different things. And the latter is also hard to find for girls (from what I've observed about some good looking/fun girls I know who struggle at finding decent partners).
As for the women getting laid easily, I have to (partly) disagree. Yes, any woman can get hobbo sex with a random stranger. BUT, if she is pursuing something else (like good sex, or fun partner, or respectful partner, or confidence, or all of the above), it might be more difficult. If confidence is a central concern, then I think there should be a difference made between "meat sex", and "fun/good sex". These are two very different things. And the latter is also hard to find for girls (from what I've observed about some good looking/fun girls I know who struggle at finding decent partners).
Yeah, honestly though, a major reason why a lot of these fun/good looking girls struggle to find decent partners is that most guys have no fucking idea how to talk to these girls. I've read so many fucking knight-in-shining-armor posts in this thread from dudes who probably sit at home all day jerking it to porn and condemning people who *gasp* are learning to get good with women.
Women don't want to date fucking pussies (ok, maybe some want a guy that they can completely wrap around their finger, but there are exceptions to every rule). This doesn't mean that you have to act like an asshole or anything, it just means that women want a guy that knows how to interact with them from a Man --> Woman dynamic, not a guy who tries to be all nice and caring from a Friend --> Woman dynamic. So many guys see a gorgeous, fun, cool girl and think that they could never get a girl like that, or they think that if they be their friend, and hang out with them, and buy them things, and act like one of their girl-friends, and then 6 months down the line go "SURPRISE, I ACTUALLY HAVE A PENIS!" (quote stolen from Tyler from RSD), that they will get the girl. It's such a fucking transparent joke.
I highly recommend this video, it's kinda long, but it goes into this in much better detail:
38:50+ specifically is great for the topic we're on, but I recommend the whole thing
Ototototo! I am in NO WAY defending the knight in shining armor thing. No no no. The girls I know struggle to find good guys precisely because the two major packs they find are: (1) pussies (smart inside or not, whatever) (2) overconfident douchebags
So, to come back to my initial point about these girls: they struggle to find a good mate. They are basically looking for a funny/genuine/reasonably smart (doesnt have to be a doctor though)/ok good looking guy, who is just confident enough to interact normally with them, ask them out, kiss them when they send 19820984 signals that say "go", etc. So no, its not super easy for them, to find a good mate, and to gain confidence or whatever this is PUA get from all this. They could go for low level guys easily, but that would probably not satisfy any of their goals (sexual or confidence or..).
Also, another thing on my mind about PUA: is having a successful relationship a goal at all? Like, even longterm? Or is it completely off topic, not PUA's business at all?
If so, I would see PUA's approach to this as a "large numbers law" kind of thing (get a lot of girls, it will eventually really work with one of them). As opposed to a method I've seen quite successful around me, that is to just do the shit you like to do (your job, some sport, outdoor/indoor activity, music, whatever) and easily get together with a match. That doesnt mean no sex before mariage kind of thing. Just that there is no particular "pick up" effort/strategy involved, as everything unfolds pretty much naturally.
Also, another thing on my mind about PUA: is having a successful relationship a goal at all? Like, even longterm? Or is it completely off topic, not PUA's business at all?
If so, I would see PUA's approach to this as a "large numbers law" kind of thing (get a lot of girls, it will eventually really work with one of them). As opposed to a method I've seen quite successful around me, that is to just do the shit you like to do (your job, some sport, outdoor/indoor activity, music, whatever) and easily get together with a match. That doesnt mean no sex before mariage kind of thing. Just that there is no particular "pick up" effort/strategy involved, as everything unfolds pretty much naturally.
Everyone has their own goal in PUA. Hell, one of the RSD instructors just announced that he's getting married. As for the "large numbers law" thing, a lot of people in PUA go about doing things they enjoy and meet women that way as well. It's not a numbers game in that the mind-set is specifically: I'm going to approach 100 women this month, which should get me laid at least 3 times per week. Where numbers come into play is in that the person who's into pickup is going to, as a part of the process, end up approaching a lot more women. Because of this, the PUA guy is going to get rejected a lot more, yes, but he's also going to meet a lot more cool women that are into the same things he's into. Sure, PUA go out to clubs or bars specifically to meet women, but so do tons of guys who aren't into pickup, the only difference is that the guy who is successful in pickup is going to be more successful in the club/bar.
PUAs have their interests just like non-PUAs do. Going out specifically to meet women and get some approaches under their belt isn't the limit to a PUA's social interactions. They are people just like non-PUA's; they enjoy going to shows, hanging out with friends, playing sports, etc. When your average joe goes on dates, he's playing the exact same "number-game" (if you can even call it that) that the PUA does, just on a smaller, less-informed scale. Think of PUA as simply broadening your horizons on a romantic level, whether your goal is to get a girlfriend, a wife, or a fuck-buddy. PUA gives you more selection with which to find your ideal partner, and it also gives you the tools (and the balls) to approach those girls that most men see as "out of their league", when really, they have no idea what that girl is really like because they're too afraid to get to know her from the Man --> Woman dynamic.
(Not 100% if this translation is correct, there prolly is a correct term in english for these phrases but I'm too lazy to check. =P)
Those are the stages you go through when working on basicly ANY task.
#1: I have never heard about Starcraft before. #2: Yeah, I know there's a game called Starcraft but I know nothing about it. #3: I know about Starcraft and I can execute certain buildorders and win games. #4: I do everything that there is in the game called Starcraft intuitively.
#1->#2 doesn't take much effort, #2->#3 is what most people call "learning something". #3 is for most tasks the longest and hardest part. #4 is a stage few people ever hit, no matter what task we're talking about. However, the goal should be to hit stage #4 in as many "subskills" as possible.
Back to pickup, whenever you did something that turned out to be working without thinking about it, you were in stage #4 and it became part of who you are. If you practice consciously who and what you want to be (stage #2+#3), this is what's called "forming/working on your character".
...just that I can't think of PUAs who are able to phrase it like that. welp. =P
On February 24 2012 12:49 Yenticha wrote: I'm suddenly curious: are there many women in the PUA community? Or an equivalent community with mostly women in it? If it's so much about "improving yourself" and/or "becoming a better person", why wouldn't there be women in there?
From my experience in average I'd say the rate of women I met in lairs is around 1/50. Locally in my area we're used to 1/10, but the local Lair structure is pretty different here from most I know.
Basicly however for all except one woman who's in there it went like: Got layed by PUA, he talked with her about it, she read some stuff and decided it's a cool thing where either she can get some help for classic pickup (yes, women have game too =P) or other stuff which is better than what the "mainstream" offers. (Inner game and the whole self-improvement stuff).
Edit: The one girl who didn't go that way basicly google'd "SLEEP MORE WITH MEN". (lol.)
On February 24 2012 12:49 Yenticha wrote: I'm suddenly curious: are there many women in the PUA community? Or an equivalent community with mostly women in it? If it's so much about "improving yourself" and/or "becoming a better person", why wouldn't there be women in there?
there are female PUA communities. i know a german one.
also, when a woman wants to "become a better person", she would rather do other self help stuff than PU, cause she gets sex anyway.
wait, I thought PUA were NOT about getting sex? that it was about becoming better? In that case, why couldn't a woman follow the whole PUA thing? And pursue ONLY super high quality males?
I am just trying to understand what are the reasons behind the whole PUA thing. Before reading this thread, my (uninformed) opinion was like "something people who have no real passion in life do. They do it to fill this void, by getting whatever society says is a good thing for males (strenght, confidence, money, appearances, women, etc".
My opinion is still exactly the same. Because up to now I don't really understand the "becoming better", as this very concept is, for me, either impossible to define (what is "better"?), or just doesnt match the goals posted around here (being strong, leading conversations, being able to protect women). So I'm trying a different angle (= "what about women in PUA?") to see if I can change it.
Note that I am not against improvement (lol), but I think it has to be more specific. Like "I want to improve my speaking skills in front of large crowds, because my job, that I like, requires me to do so".
Everyone who says "A women can get sex whenever she wants" is talking bullshit. No matter how good/bad a woman looks she will run into certain problems when she wants to hook up without big complications. Working on those issues and gathering material to the why and what is what most pickup cats are in this for.
Basicly once you're past a certain stage (hint: FUCK I CANT GET LAID WHAT DO) most guys and girls I know stay in this out of curiousness and to have a platform for stuff that's hard to talk about with most people.
As an example who would you ask if you wanted to know how it's possible to have a threesome in a longterm relationship without causing any hurt feelings on all involved sides? That's honestly a tough question at first, especially because of the people (longterm relationship which the couple wants to keep) and moral standards (no hurt feelings plz) involved.
I'd bet my ass that asking this question in a TL blog, general forum or asking this your buddies will net incredibly retarded results because no one ever devoted time into this. Hell, for most people the dynamics in relationships are stuff they know jack about.
In the PUA community you get a platform to talk about this stuff. You can find people who can openly say "yeah, I had this situation before, this is what I did..." without social repercussions. At the highest possible standard (note, that's something I'd say even the good lairs approach like once per month) a Lair meeting is more like a think-tank about tricky social situations.
I am just trying to understand what are the reasons behind the whole PUA thing. Before reading this thread, my (uninformed) opinion was like "something people who have no real passion in life do. They do it to fill this void, by getting whatever society says is a good thing for males (strenght, confidence, money, appearances, women, etc".
So what you're saying is: the reason behind playing starcraft is like "something people who have no real passion in life do. They fill this void by getting whatever their buddies say is a good thing for young males (becoming pro at starcraft etc.)"
Utter bullshit. If you (FOR WHATEVER REASON) want to become better at starcraft, you learn about it. If (for whatever reason) you want to improve how you interact with women, you learn about it. Since the latter is a topic that's not exactly something you can talk about with anyone without being seen as a weirdo for various reasons you grab together 15+ years of people working on it in pseudo-scientific ways, thousands of people and coaches and various styles together and call them "PUA community".
The SC equivalent would be to throw the Blizzard forums, TL and gg.net together and say "what they usually say in SC forums is..." based on what seems to be the average.
@squatting: If it has nothing to do with pickup or the PUA community, why don't you throw it into a personal blog which you can use all day to share pseudo-brag stories?
EPT
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