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On July 16 2011 06:18 ToxNub wrote:
I find it odd that none of you have mentioned a word about your actual "value" (as you put it), like whether you are rocket scientists or independently wealth businessmen yet. It seems to me that something doesn't quite make sense... Women aren't idiots. Well, at least not the ones worth going for.
Yes, looks do matter.
![[image loading]](http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6025/5904491962_3b5f7e8c08_z.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2011/03/16/11053072/profilepic/1Et1oR4BgTfZ2dmPZhPgkt6gZEiK7O247.jpeg)
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The only thing I want to mention here: If you want to discard all the nonsense and not only develop yourself in the "PUA" ways, but in general as well, you should check out this:
www.the21convention.com
There is an event in the US and in the EU every year, with the best in the field on HIT training, Pua, food and diet, and general life commitment. It is run by Anthony Paul Johnson, who some of you might know as Dream.
No bullshit, no nonsense, straight up goodness. There are even a truckload of free speeches from the previous years on there, definitely check out the 2010 vid of Rob Judge, you will love it.
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I'm not a member of the "community" nor have I ever paid money for their stuff, since I can find most of it for free online. I like D'Angelo's stuff because what he says makes a lot of intuitive sense. "Nice guys" do finish last because they lack a spine and try to bend over backwards to please everyone, not just women. Everyone walks over them.
I think D'Angelo's advice is actually a front for "self-help" books. He talks a lot about "inner game". Basically, the important take away I got was just to become more confident and work on self improvement and to stop chasing girls (which is funny, since the main selling point of PUA is all about bagging as many girls as possible). I hit the gym, focused on my career and making $$$, and put time into my hobbies and side interests. Life just naturally got better, and that benefited my dating life too.
I like that angle a whole lot better than the whole "seduce lots of hot women with these canned scripts!!!!" approach.
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On July 16 2011 07:56 fishjie wrote:
I'm not a member of the "community" nor have I ever paid money for their stuff, since I can find most of it for free online. I like D'Angelo's stuff because what he says makes a lot of intuitive sense. "Nice guys" do finish last because they lack a spine and try to bend over backwards to please everyone, not just women. Everyone walks over them.
I think D'Angelo's advice is actually a front for "self-help" books. He talks a lot about "inner game". Basically, the important take away I got was just to become more confident and work on self improvement and to stop chasing girls (which is funny, since the main selling point of PUA is all about bagging as many girls as possible). I hit the gym, focused on my career and making $$$, and put time into my hobbies and side interests. Life just naturally got better, and that benefited my dating life too.
I like that angle a whole lot better than the whole "seduce lots of hot women with these canned scripts!!!!" approach.
Inner game is fixed by outer game actions. A persons behavior can only change by the actions he makes. A brave person is brave not because he think hes is brave, but because makes decisions and performs actions that are brave.
You don't become confident by reading books. You become confident by putting yourself out there. You get confidence when you put your self in situations that you fear and doubt and you perform the necessary tasks anyways. David D's materials are cool, but don't expect to read that stuff and magically thinks will fix yourself if you don't change your daily habits.
Also, if you are bad with women, you can circumvent it and hope the other successes in life will compensate. I was educated, tall, good physique, great career. I worked on everything but getting better with women because in my mind before, I couldn't deal with rejection. The fastest way to get results is to work on your biggest weakness.
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On July 16 2011 06:18 ToxNub wrote:
I'm going to look more into this. I'm 50/50 whether you are all egotistical bullshitters that prey on LSE/already-slutty/stupid chicks or whether there is actually something to learn here. Something I find disturbing about the whole mess is that there seems to be a disproportionate amount of attention being given to the "how" instead of the what. I find it odd that none of you have mentioned a word about your actual "value" (as you put it), like whether you are rocket scientists or independently wealth businessmen yet. It seems to me that something doesn't quite make sense... Women aren't idiots. Well, at least not the ones worth going for.
Personally I hate dumb chicks. I can't stand it. Most of my game (im basicly being a sarcastic bitch with black humor) gets rid of the dumb chicks rather quickly. I don't care if she's the "hottest" in the club, if I can't talk to her.
The fun part about "value" is, that it's all one big illusion. Pickup actually gives you tools to create "value" out of thin air.
Some examples of this is the type of clubgame I run that I mentioned in previous post. The people I "opened" with total bullshit will at least respond to a "Hey, you again, how are you doing? Fine? Cool, keep it up." - If that happens while talking to a girl it creates the image of me being well-known in that place. Well known people who other people seem to be friendly with are usually people that aren't dangerous and cool to hang out with. It does not matter at all if I am that way, it only matters that I'm perceived as such.
Another similar thing is if you merge and split sets with a group of 2-3 guys who work together. For example let's say we're 3 guys and have 5 sets where we all have the status of "Random dude, kinda cool, but I don't know really." - Now you have the option of each of the guys introducing the others into "his" set. His original set sees him with some random hot women they don't recognize, in a lot of cases this will lead to "Who were those girls earlier you talked to?" when he's back with "his" girls. The simple fact that he was seen hanging out with other attractive girls instantly gives him more social value.
Same example is pretending you're gay in the waiting line but somehow getting in with that group of 7 hot chicks, looking as if you're there together. Every single woman that sees you entering the club with them has to assume you're either very valuable (aka popular) or gay.
"Value" in any social context context is nothing else than the perception of someone elses social status.
However, perception is reality.
Some more examples:
I used to make my money by playing poker professionally. It didn't matter that I was almost completely broke at one point, simply by showing up in the same clothes, with the same people, at the same places got me a loan from someone I didn't have a huge connection with. - He assumed my "value" at that point was much higher than it actually was and lended me money that got me out of my slump.
Women tend to test your personal reality (aka your "frame"), which is commonly referred to as "shit tests". I have a crush on women who are 5-6 years older than me (I'm 23 atm) and age is something they love shittesting about. One phone example (she had fucking huge balls, wouldn't say that to every girl).
Me: "Oh, damn, you're good at those things." (cant remember what it was about)
She: "Well, yeah, I've got a litttttttle bit more experience than you do. ... Being older and all."
Me: "You can't imagine how hard it is running around with a woman that's almost 30. Oh, well I guess I'm cool with it as long as I don't have more wrinkles than you do."
What's going on between the lines?
She: "This guy is cool, I like him. Wait, is he really? I'll find out."
Me: "What? loldurrobv I'm cool. Get off my balls, punk. <3"
By not entering the discussion and just "throwing the ball back" I set my frame of reality above hers and win the "value-battle". The wrong way would be to answer something along the lanes "Um, its okay I'm pretty mature for my age." - Here you'd accept her reality (Doubting that you're mature) and fight it by winning the argument. -> She won, you're out.
Meh, not sure if I'm answering your question at all, I'm kinda rambling.
tl;dr: I find dumb women harder to game, because they lack perception of subleties during communication a lot of the time. That's the fun part for me. Every monkey can escalate and fuck her, I enjoy having lots of fun while flirting, irony up and down and really getting into that "bubble" where you understand each other.
PS: That's actually one of my biggest weaknesses as well, simply because women tend to get emotionally attached too fast for my taste, 'cause I'm working "too much" on comfort/trust. It's work for me to maintain a pure sexually interested relationship from her side.
PPS: You can say about Mystery what you want, but any "Pickuper" that doesn't respect "Leave her better than you found her." should go die in a fire and get some basic respect for human beings first.
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On July 16 2011 08:12 squattincassanova wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 07:56 fishjie wrote:
I'm not a member of the "community" nor have I ever paid money for their stuff, since I can find most of it for free online. I like D'Angelo's stuff because what he says makes a lot of intuitive sense. "Nice guys" do finish last because they lack a spine and try to bend over backwards to please everyone, not just women. Everyone walks over them.
I think D'Angelo's advice is actually a front for "self-help" books. He talks a lot about "inner game". Basically, the important take away I got was just to become more confident and work on self improvement and to stop chasing girls (which is funny, since the main selling point of PUA is all about bagging as many girls as possible). I hit the gym, focused on my career and making $$$, and put time into my hobbies and side interests. Life just naturally got better, and that benefited my dating life too.
I like that angle a whole lot better than the whole "seduce lots of hot women with these canned scripts!!!!" approach. Inner game is fixed by outer game actions. A persons behavior can only change by the actions he makes. A brave person is brave not because he think hes is brave, but because makes decisions and performs actions that are brave. You don't become confident by reading books. You become confident by putting yourself out there. You get confidence when you put your self in situations that you fear and doubt and you perform the necessary tasks anyways. David D's materials are cool, but don't expect to read that stuff and magically thinks will fix yourself if you don't change your daily habits. Also, if you are bad with women, you can circumvent it and hope the other successes in life will compensate. I was educated, tall, good physique, great career. I worked on everything but getting better with women because in my mind before, I couldn't deal with rejection. The fastest way to get results is to work on your biggest weakness.
Yeah I totally agree with that. I found a lot of D Angelo's stuff enlightening. But at the end of the day, his stuff, and all self help books in general are just a guide. And a guide is meaningless if you never leave home.
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On July 16 2011 05:42 squattincassanova wrote:
Why are you guys still quoting Mystery Method. This is 2011 for christ sakes. Are you still using negs and opinion openers? Seriously, grow some balls and use direct game. Its good for your inner game brah.
Direct game forces girl to make public value judgement, taking from discreeteness. And MysteryMethod is about timing, like Starcraft.
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On July 16 2011 08:54 xarthaz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 05:42 squattincassanova wrote:
Why are you guys still quoting Mystery Method. This is 2011 for christ sakes. Are you still using negs and opinion openers? Seriously, grow some balls and use direct game. Its good for your inner game brah. Direct game forces girl to make public value judgement, taking from discreeteness. And MysteryMethod is about timing, like Starcraft.
MM is about not being confident enough to put yourself out there. Deep down in your head, you don't feel worthy to approach her without a bull crap line. Cuz you know, if you ask her for a random opinion, she can't really reject you can she? Because you approached her for some stupid opinion that you don't really care about.
How about you approach her with your true intentions in mind. "Hey, I think you are hot, I had to come meet you"
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you guys, i'm sooo good at picking up the ladies! :D
don't use this: "hey, I think you are hot, I had to come meet you." 
think about it; if an attractive girl came up to you and said that, you'd think somethings up. if a not so attractive one said it, you'd be weirded out.
you can use something like "hey, saw you from over there and just had to come over and hear your voice!" or "oh man, look at your necklace! it's really cool." it's not quite as direct.
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On July 16 2011 09:22 RBlass wrote:you guys, i'm sooo good at picking up the ladies! :D don't use this: "hey, I think you are hot, I had to come meet you." think about it; if an attractive girl came up to you and said that, you'd think somethings up. if a not so attractive one said it, you'd be weirded out. you can use something like "hey, saw you from over there and just had to come over and hear your voice!" or "oh man, look at your necklace! it's really cool." it's not quite as direct.
Okay so from nearly 1000 cold approach experiences, I get about 8 out of 10 that open with a smile from that. How much field test have you done? Zero?
You really think a hot girl believes you came over there to talk about her stupid necklace? Get real.
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On July 16 2011 09:35 squattincassanova wrote:
Okay so from nearly 1000 cold approach experiences, I get about 8 out of 10 that open with a smile from that. How much field test have you done? Zero?
You really think a hot girl believes you came over there to talk about her stupid necklace? Get real.
if i see a girl that happens to be where i am at the time, i go for it. so a decent amount.
people have different ways of getting girls. some treat them like objects and their goal is to sleep with them. that's fine, i have nothing against that.
but how many people do you know that are in an even somewhat committed relationship met by the guy coming up and saying that?
doesn't matter though, i was just giving my 2 cents.
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Well today I used the "Apocalypse Opener" on 2 girls. One worked out really fine and got her number but the other one said "Good, how about you." and I froze out..... :S Any of you know what to respond afterward because if I say "Good, would you like to (insert action here)", it sounds really forced and unnatural.
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On July 16 2011 09:41 RBlass wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 09:35 squattincassanova wrote:
Okay so from nearly 1000 cold approach experiences, I get about 8 out of 10 that open with a smile from that. How much field test have you done? Zero?
You really think a hot girl believes you came over there to talk about her stupid necklace? Get real. if i see a girl that happens to be where i am at the time, i go for it. so a decent amount. people have different ways of getting girls. some treat them like objects and their goal is to sleep with them. that's fine, i have nothing against that. but how many people do you know that are in an even somewhat committed relationship met by the guy coming up and saying that? doesn't matter though, i was just giving my 2 cents.
1. Guys have been trying to get at girls for millions of years. We are biologically wired. PUA or not, it changes nothing. Just because you got a new skill set changes nothing. Just like if you give a person a gun, it doesn't make him good or bad.
2. Most people people get into relationships just like how most newbs can win Starcraft games on Big Game Hunters by massing carriers. Most people aren't PUAs. Most people suck at pickup. This isnt politics. Majority isn't always right. When you are sick, do you go to a doctor or do you ask 100 random people and take a majority answer?
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On July 16 2011 09:17 squattincassanova wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 08:54 xarthaz wrote:On July 16 2011 05:42 squattincassanova wrote:
Why are you guys still quoting Mystery Method. This is 2011 for christ sakes. Are you still using negs and opinion openers? Seriously, grow some balls and use direct game. Its good for your inner game brah. Direct game forces girl to make public value judgement, taking from discreeteness. And MysteryMethod is about timing, like Starcraft. MM is about not being confident enough to put yourself out there. Deep down in your head, you don't feel worthy to approach her without a bull crap line. Cuz you know, if you ask her for a random opinion, she can't really reject you can she? Because you approached her for some stupid opinion that you don't really care about. How about you approach her with your true intentions in mind. "Hey, I think you are hot, I had to come meet you"
Again. It puts the ball on the girls court, puts responsibility on her. Breaks the vibe of playfulness and noncommitment. Direct game is overrated. Its making life harder for yourself. DO you say to girl - lets go my place for sexy? Ofc not,... its lets go drink tea, etc. It works like that in all situations with girls - it is necessary to avoid responsibility or concscious decision on her. And same way in other social situations as well - people want to be lied to so as to avoid being under pressure to make judgement calls.
On July 16 2011 09:46 Xiphos wrote:
Well today I used the "Apocalypse Opener" on 2 girls. One worked out really fine and got her number but the other one said "Good, how about you." and I froze out..... :S Any of you know what to respond afterward because if I say "Good, would you like to (insert action here)", it sounds really forced and unnatural.
U need more canned material man . then when problem comes u can shoot them straight out, one after another. It often creates information overload on girl which acts as a male intelligence DHV. And provides many conversation strings to spread out from the stories.
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On July 16 2011 09:46 Xiphos wrote:
Well today I used the "Apocalypse Opener" on 2 girls. One worked out really fine and got her number but the other one said "Good, how about you." and I froze out..... :S Any of you know what to respond afterward because if I say "Good, would you like to (insert action here)", it sounds really forced and unnatural.
Apocalypse Opener - "hey you wanna F***?" -- is designed to do ONE thing. Its to basically make you grow balls. It doesn't really make your game BETTER or Tighter. Doesn't make you smoother. If you are super shy and you do the apocalypse opener, it will help you rapidly develop a thick skin. But if you been doing it for a long time, you should probably stop, because it literally turns off 98% of the population.
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On July 16 2011 09:47 xarthaz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 09:17 squattincassanova wrote:On July 16 2011 08:54 xarthaz wrote:On July 16 2011 05:42 squattincassanova wrote:
Why are you guys still quoting Mystery Method. This is 2011 for christ sakes. Are you still using negs and opinion openers? Seriously, grow some balls and use direct game. Its good for your inner game brah. Direct game forces girl to make public value judgement, taking from discreeteness. And MysteryMethod is about timing, like Starcraft. MM is about not being confident enough to put yourself out there. Deep down in your head, you don't feel worthy to approach her without a bull crap line. Cuz you know, if you ask her for a random opinion, she can't really reject you can she? Because you approached her for some stupid opinion that you don't really care about. How about you approach her with your true intentions in mind. "Hey, I think you are hot, I had to come meet you" Again. It puts the ball on the girls court, puts responsibility on her. Breaks the vibe of playfulness and noncommitment. Direct game is overrated. Its making life harder for yourself. DO you say to girl - lets go my place for sexy? Ofc not,... its lets go drink tea, etc. It works like that in all situations with girls - it is necessary to avoid responsibility or concscious decision on her. And same way in other social situations as well - people want to be lied to so as to avoid being under pressure to make judgement calls.
Of course when you are pulling, you use plausible deniability and you make it sound like a spontaneous thing and you take the responsibility off her. Direct opener isn't forcing her to do anything.
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Yes it is! It is the same thing! The universality of the analogy is implied by the category of the situation. The dichotomy of input required and input supported can be used to describe the fallacy you are commiting. In the case of the opener too, it is input required, which is the definitional problem of directness. It isnt overcome by context altering, as the claim stems from category implied by definition, not environmental parameters.
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On July 16 2011 09:35 squattincassanova wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 09:22 RBlass wrote:you guys, i'm sooo good at picking up the ladies! :D don't use this: "hey, I think you are hot, I had to come meet you." think about it; if an attractive girl came up to you and said that, you'd think somethings up. if a not so attractive one said it, you'd be weirded out. you can use something like "hey, saw you from over there and just had to come over and hear your voice!" or "oh man, look at your necklace! it's really cool." it's not quite as direct. Okay so from nearly 1000 cold approach experiences, I get about 8 out of 10 that open with a smile from that. How much field test have you done? Zero? You really think a hot girl believes you came over there to talk about her stupid necklace? Get real.
This is why cold approach paralyzes me. I'm not stupid. She's not stupid. Both of us know the only reason I am talking to her is because I want to put my dick inside her. I can't do it. My only game is social circle stuff, or when I get a lucky break to make a witty comment.
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My main argument wasn't about whether direct works or not. It certainly works very well. I'm also not suggesting you only use direct in every situation.
What I am saying is. For long term development, you must incorporate direct game. Meaning you can't do indirect your whole life.
Direct makes you a sex worthy guy. Direct makes you true to your intentions. Direct makes you alpha. Direct fixes a lot of kinks in your inner game. On a side note, direct also is a lotta fun and it sets the mood real fast.
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On July 16 2011 09:49 squattincassanova wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 09:46 Xiphos wrote:
Well today I used the "Apocalypse Opener" on 2 girls. One worked out really fine and got her number but the other one said "Good, how about you." and I froze out..... :S Any of you know what to respond afterward because if I say "Good, would you like to (insert action here)", it sounds really forced and unnatural. Apocalypse Opener - "hey you wanna F***?" -- is designed to do ONE thing. Its to basically make you grow balls. It doesn't really make your game BETTER or Tighter. Doesn't make you smoother. If you are super shy and you do the apocalypse opener, it will help you rapidly develop a thick skin. But if you been doing it for a long time, you should probably stop, because it literally turns off 98% of the population.
Well prior to the PU act, I surfed on Roissy Renegade and saw this topic. I was pretty curious. And yeah this is my first time using a "pre-planned" phrase to begin a conversation.
I've modified the opening into a less "out there". Instead of asking them to fuck, I asked them "wanna chill later today?" and the girl that gave me her number said "where would we going?" (probably got her defensive shield up/testing if I am a creepy stalker. I responded "well...what do you have in mind?" she laughed and said to call her at this number that she gave me and said that if she is not tired, then we can have dinner.
I didn't actually call her after that to which that I feel pretty guilty now :S
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EPT
