On July 15 2011 21:20 Wohmfg wrote: How long have you been doing this r.Evo? How did you get into it and what are the most important pieces of advice you can give to someone who wants to improve their pickup skills?
Actually I got into this whole topic thanks to TL. I think it was Kennigit (?) who posted a "OMGFUCKING GIRL THREADS" topic where he linked "The Game" as a solid book to read. I was all like "yeah, magic pill, sure" but sneaked the e-book anyway. Should have been around May 2009. I then soaked up all the theory from books and videos that I could find (something I'd not recommend to everyone, but for me theory -> let it settle down -> praxis works great in a lot of fields) and went to my local lair in September 2009. The guys (and girls) there were pretty damn cool and I started going out with 'em on a twice a week basis. I always had the approach of "I kinda want a cool girl for a relationship, but I won't say no to some fun until then." to the whole seduction thing.
During that time, I still tried to avoid cold approaches as good as I could. However, I had quick success by changing some simple things (mostly kino escalation to be honest) while doing some approaches on girls I somehow had in my social circle. Up to today I still consider me being pretty weak when it comes to cold approaches during clubgame (daygame I'm fine), however my strenghts are what is called social-game and online-game. Also I'm a beast on the phone and, where so incredibly many people fail (at least in the german "scene), when it comes to textmessages.
When I'm somehow forced to do clubgame, I simply try and create situations that get me warm approaches (warm basicly means that you have some kind of connection. e.g. no one immediatly shuts the friend of a friend down before even talking to him). How? I do random silly stuff to almost everyone I meet.
I chit-chat with people in the waiting line. In a corridor with bar stools I might stand in the persons way, put the barstool in our common way, smile, walk around the barstool and twinkle on the way out. I might stand in the way of a girl (don't do this to guys, lol), when she tries to walk past me, I stand in her way again, smile, walk past her. I give random compliments if I like something someone is wearing or doing (both to guys and girls) and immediatly walk past them once that short piece of conversation is done. I sometimes hi5 random people or grab someone random to bitch about someone or something. I always, always walk away after that short talk.
What do I accomplish with that? -I get into a communicative state where I can talk to everyone about everything. -I get to use my #1 opener "Ohmygod, you again." (I actually have wings cracking up when I say that); common follow ups are "Are you stalking/following me?" / "This is my turf, darling, you gotta pay respect, yo." (I don't look gangster at all but pretend I'm wearing huge baggy pants when saying this) / "Okay, you wanna talk? Let's talk. What's up?" always with a smile afterwards. -I stand out of the crowd. When doing this for a while I can expect sets to start giggling when I'm just coming close. (Carefull, I'm not an entertainer, I'm having fun for myself and do what's fun for me, huge difference in frames.) -I can start abusing anyone I "approached" that way, be it guys or girls as instant-wings or pivots. I have more of a connection than any of the other 200 people around with them, that's enough to make them do little things for you. -I can crush any set where some of the people I "approached" are with strangers. I love opening sets full of guys, just to steal their girls later on. Make sure to find out if someone is in a relationship or something. "So, how do you guys all know each other?" ez #1 line to bust wannabe PUAs.
/random clubgame rant end.
Since December 2010 I'm in a relationship and it took me until last month to get her ready for threesomes etc., pickup isn't over in a relationship, for sure. =D
Fun sidenote: My current GF is neither the type of woman I'd usually approach, nor the type that usually responds to me well. Also I met her completely by accident in a café where I decided to not pick up any girl anymore.
Advice on what's important for beginners is hard since most people learn so differently. I'd say most important is obviously to get into praxis asap, while still analyzing yourself instead of doing mindless things over and over again. "Every single routine has a purpose." and "You can not not communicate." are probably the most important things to keep in mind. Find out what's behind the things you're saying, become aware of stuff that's going on. If I found a certain routine online I'd always check what it conveys and find a story that happened to me that conveys the same thing, simply because I h a t e using most of the canned stuff and feel completely silly while using it.
I'd say the best advice I can give someone starting out besides that is to simply enjoy random communication with strangers and to have fun. That's way more important than trying to get into some girls pants from the get-go. Once you're comfortable (!!) with simple interaction with strangers it's not very far from shifting that onto girls and finally onto getting all the sex and relationships you want. Not to mention having a large social circle is everything you ever need to... "practice"
For me, personally, pickup involves working on your self to become a more attractive person in general and to become someone that's enjoyable to hang out with. Those things are more than half the way 'cause you get all the "secondary traits" (confident, social, outgoing, communicative, social intelligence) with it "for free".
Awesome post.
I actually read The Game about 3 years ago and had all my close friends read it too and we dabbled in it on and off for years. With all of our interests in game waning for long periods at different times, we could never get our game off the ground properly. I'm not one to be able to have the balls to approach solo or with people around, because I would be embarrassed. I have read and watched an awful lot of pickup material in those years, which is mostly useless because practice and studying have to go hand in hand for the learning process to be effective. I think this is the same with most things.
Now me and two of my friends have started the Stylelife challenge (Rules Of The Game) which aims to get any man a date within 30 days. The main theme of the book so far is self improvement and removing fears. This is what I believe pickup is all about at the end of the day, and it seems you do too. This is why I hate it when people bash pickup for the silliest of reasons when they don't know what it fundamentally is. All of the material I have studied promotes self improvement and acknowledges that getting good at pickup is a ling process, and routines are no more than training wheels.
No Wr3k. You're comparing having fun in sc to being the best at it. Usually the two aren't the same thing. Weirdly, even though it might be more rewarding to fall in love with a great girl, there are harder things that are less rewarding. He JUST SAID "it all depends on your goals".
Uhh Wrek hate to break it to you but.. commited monogamous relationship is about the lowest level of gameplay in the PUA scene. The advanced level are : consistent opening style, fast samenight anti-LMR trick gameplay, multi girl juggling style, fastjuggling with FB mechanics, multiple commited relationships. SO if you want advanced content you must work hard, which is why a lot of guys stay monogomous.
On July 16 2011 03:06 xarthaz wrote: Uhh Wrek hate to break it to you but.. commited monogamous relationship is about the lowest level of gameplay in the PUA scene. The advanced level are : consistent opening style, fast samenight anti-LMR trick gameplay, multi girl juggling style, fastjuggling with FB mechanics, multiple commited relationships. SO if you want advanced content you must work hard, which is why a lot of guys stay monogomous.
I guess I just fail to see why people want that.<deleted>. I've been dating the same girl for just over a year and It's been the best year of my life.
On July 16 2011 03:06 xarthaz wrote: Uhh Wrek hate to break it to you but.. commited monogamous relationship is about the lowest level of gameplay in the PUA scene. The advanced level are : consistent opening style, fast samenight anti-LMR trick gameplay, multi girl juggling style, fastjuggling with FB mechanics, multiple commited relationships. SO if you want advanced content you must work hard, which is why a lot of guys stay monogomous.
WTF are those!!!! O_O I don't know but I got this sudden curious adrenaline pumping in my body!
I would probably get banned if i explained that stuff in detail as its not the most socially acceptable - good place to see the more extreme but successful techniques is PUA forums lay reports.. the advanced guys are able to do some crazy things..
On July 16 2011 03:06 xarthaz wrote: Uhh Wrek hate to break it to you but.. commited monogamous relationship is about the lowest level of gameplay in the PUA scene. The advanced level are : consistent opening style, fast samenight anti-LMR trick gameplay, multi girl juggling style, fastjuggling with FB mechanics, multiple commited relationships. SO if you want advanced content you must work hard, which is why a lot of guys stay monogomous.
WTF are those!!!! O_O I don't know but I got this sudden curious adrenaline pumping in my body!
Beyond the obvious, LMR is last minute (before sex) resistance, the rest are fancy ways of saying being with multiple women at the same time with varying levels of emotional involvement. FB is fuck buddy. I was curious enough to do a bit of reading on it after a friend of mine started a business training guys on pickup techniques. I don't really find the whole thing attractive, but then again I have been pretty fortunate with women.
On July 16 2011 02:20 Xiphos wrote: squattincassanova, why are you making PU sounds SOOOO much harder than what it is!!! Like that PU is a sport or something that you are going have to train your ass for. Not going to lie but you are making me overthinking of talking to girls, thinking all of these situations instead of winging it....(which is way easier). Its really a hurtle that you have to get over with for the first couple of approaches like making sure you keep the same consistent tone without stuttering. But as you get better at it (whcih shouldn't take you more than couple of days if you hang at social venues a lot), you get more confident and women will just be that more likely to be attracted to YOU!
On July 16 2011 00:54 squattincassanova wrote:
On July 16 2011 00:49 ToxNub wrote: 'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way, but frankly it seems like too much work.
Yup. Its a lot of work. That's why 95% of people fail. Just like how 95% of the people fail diets. Just how like 95%+ of people fail to get their financial situation settled.
See the trend? Pick up is not something you can dabble in. Its not something you can be like, "Oh, ill just do some approaches maybe here and there, and oh Ill just read some books here and there". Pick up is 50x harder than you think it is if you truly want to be good... I mean GOOD. NO! You go out 3+ nights a week. Bring a flash card with 3 things to work on. You bring a voice recorder, and you go home and spend 30 minutes to write your field report every night you go out. And hopefully you can afford a coach who can do long term coaching and go over your notes on a weekly basis. (Some people say you are taking this too seriously. We'll, how serious does Michael Phelps train for the olympics? How much time does Michael Jordan practice lay ups? How many iterations did Edison do to create the light bulb? That's the excellence mentality).
If everyone was a PUA, there wouldn't be enough hot girls to go around.
Seriously? People are WAY overthinking about PU, its like you guys are putting in SOOO MUUUUCH work into it like it is some exam that you are preparing. You guys are sounding that you doing ALL of those preparation just to get laid. That's a lot of effort and time putting in!
All depends on your goals. Being a pub stomper in starcraft on fastest money possible and being a pro gamer at starcraft obviously takes two different levels of preparation and mindset. Getting GF or getting laid one or twice every few months vs. being able to same night lay a perfect 10 at a high end club in Hollywood are two different stories.
Honestly, I think the pickup equivalent of being a pro-gamer at starcraft is being in a committed relationship to a beautiful woman whom you love. Why would you want to same night lay a girl you find in a club period? Id rather spend time with someone I actually care about & share interests with AND have great sex whenever I want it than waste my time and money in clubs picking up girls and thinking about whether or not shes clean while I put on a condom (oh and condoms make sex feel terrible compared to bareback to the point Id rather get a BJ or fleshlight).
I mean if you really think the highest achievement with regards to picking up women is having sex with perfect 10's from a hollywood club to each their own, but I don't find the idea of that attractive at all.
Also id like to add, that of the majority of perfect 10's I know, have no interest in meeting guys at clubs, don't go to clubs often at all and spend more of their time doing fun activities that aren't based solely upon social drinking. If you want to get laid sure clubs are good, but I honestly think it would be easier to meet perfect 10's at places like the gym, events, classes or just out in public. Perfect 10's that will sleep with you that night? probably not, but hey. To each their own.
My end goal is to find the perfect girl to marry. But for the next 3 years... its straight pickup. Seriously, I postpone dates with girls if it overlaps over my Friday and Saturday night sarging. I focus on long term growth over short term satisfaction. I only broke that rule once in the last 6 months because I knew it was guaranteed lay haha.
To get the girl of your dreams, you have to be able to get good with girls in general. Being in a relationship is great, but for me I don't grow when I am in one. I dated a girl for 7 years and within that period I was in my comfort zone. I didn't grow, I didn't learn new things. In the last 6 months I been single. I have traveled, took improv comedy, picked up photography, and significantly improve my physique. I have grown more in 6 months than my last 7 years.
There is the big watershed - the MM utilization. Comparable to regular dating, but with the best possible mechanics and execution. And then the pre-MM timing styles. Now, pre-MM timing is advanced and going to stage3 MM skipping the C2 phase or using massive timewarps but it is dangerous in the sense that it will make things tick in targets head like - "how is this happening", "why is this possible" so the fastjuggling methodology stems from that premise.
On July 16 2011 03:06 xarthaz wrote: Uhh Wrek hate to break it to you but.. commited monogamous relationship is about the lowest level of gameplay in the PUA scene. The advanced level are : consistent opening style, fast samenight anti-LMR trick gameplay, multi girl juggling style, fastjuggling with FB mechanics, multiple commited relationships. SO if you want advanced content you must work hard, which is why a lot of guys stay monogomous.
WTF are those!!!! O_O I don't know but I got this sudden curious adrenaline pumping in my body!
Beyond the obvious, LMR is last minute (before sex) resistance, the rest are fancy ways of saying being with multiple women at the same time with varying levels of emotional involvement. FB is fuck buddy. I was curious enough to do a bit of reading on it after a friend of mine started a business training guys on pickup techniques. I don't really find the whole thing attractive, but then again I have been pretty fortunate with women.
Here is me getting hit with full LMR. Oh wells. I took a video of what I looks like.... lol. So I decided to eat my chalupa instead.
On July 16 2011 02:20 Xiphos wrote: squattincassanova, why are you making PU sounds SOOOO much harder than what it is!!! Like that PU is a sport or something that you are going have to train your ass for. Not going to lie but you are making me overthinking of talking to girls, thinking all of these situations instead of winging it....(which is way easier). Its really a hurtle that you have to get over with for the first couple of approaches like making sure you keep the same consistent tone without stuttering. But as you get better at it (whcih shouldn't take you more than couple of days if you hang at social venues a lot), you get more confident and women will just be that more likely to be attracted to YOU!
On July 16 2011 00:54 squattincassanova wrote:
On July 16 2011 00:49 ToxNub wrote: 'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way, but frankly it seems like too much work.
Yup. Its a lot of work. That's why 95% of people fail. Just like how 95% of the people fail diets. Just how like 95%+ of people fail to get their financial situation settled.
See the trend? Pick up is not something you can dabble in. Its not something you can be like, "Oh, ill just do some approaches maybe here and there, and oh Ill just read some books here and there". Pick up is 50x harder than you think it is if you truly want to be good... I mean GOOD. NO! You go out 3+ nights a week. Bring a flash card with 3 things to work on. You bring a voice recorder, and you go home and spend 30 minutes to write your field report every night you go out. And hopefully you can afford a coach who can do long term coaching and go over your notes on a weekly basis. (Some people say you are taking this too seriously. We'll, how serious does Michael Phelps train for the olympics? How much time does Michael Jordan practice lay ups? How many iterations did Edison do to create the light bulb? That's the excellence mentality).
If everyone was a PUA, there wouldn't be enough hot girls to go around.
Seriously? People are WAY overthinking about PU, its like you guys are putting in SOOO MUUUUCH work into it like it is some exam that you are preparing. You guys are sounding that you doing ALL of those preparation just to get laid. That's a lot of effort and time putting in!
All depends on your goals. Being a pub stomper in starcraft on fastest money possible and being a pro gamer at starcraft obviously takes two different levels of preparation and mindset. Getting GF or getting laid one or twice every few months vs. being able to same night lay a perfect 10 at a high end club in Hollywood are two different stories.
Honestly, I think the pickup equivalent of being a pro-gamer at starcraft is being in a committed relationship to a beautiful woman whom you love. Why would you want to same night lay a girl you find in a club period? Id rather spend time with someone I actually care about & share interests with AND have great sex whenever I want it than waste my time and money in clubs picking up girls and thinking about whether or not shes clean while I put on a condom (oh and condoms make sex feel terrible compared to bareback to the point Id rather get a BJ or fleshlight).
I mean if you really think the highest achievement with regards to picking up women is having sex with perfect 10's from a hollywood club to each their own, but I don't find the idea of that attractive at all.
Also id like to add, that of the majority of perfect 10's I know, have no interest in meeting guys at clubs, don't go to clubs often at all and spend more of their time doing fun activities that aren't based solely upon social drinking. If you want to get laid sure clubs are good, but I honestly think it would be easier to meet perfect 10's at places like the gym, events, classes or just out in public. Perfect 10's that will sleep with you that night? probably not, but hey. To each their own.
My end girl is to find the perfect girl to marry. But for the next 3 years... its straight pickup. Seriously, I postpone dates with girls if it overlaps over my Friday and Saturday night sarging. I focus on long term growth over short term satisfaction. I only broke that rule once in the last 6 months because I knew it was guaranteed lay haha.
To get the girl of your dreams, you have to be able to get good with girls in general. Being in a relationship is great, but for me I don't grow when I am in one. I dated a girl for 7 years and within that period I was in my comfort zone. I didn't grow, I didn't learn new things. In the last 6 months I been single. I have traveled, took improv comedy, picked up photography, and significantly improve my physique. I have grown more in 6 months than my last 7 years.
I really like this kind of attitude. I think the PUA thing is much more respectable if someone is looking at it from this point of view instead of just trying to get laid as many times as possible from many different women.
On July 16 2011 03:06 xarthaz wrote: Uhh Wrek hate to break it to you but.. commited monogamous relationship is about the lowest level of gameplay in the PUA scene. The advanced level are : consistent opening style, fast samenight anti-LMR trick gameplay, multi girl juggling style, fastjuggling with FB mechanics, multiple commited relationships. SO if you want advanced content you must work hard, which is why a lot of guys stay monogomous.
WTF are those!!!! O_O I don't know but I got this sudden curious adrenaline pumping in my body!
Beyond the obvious, LMR is last minute (before sex) resistance, the rest are fancy ways of saying being with multiple women at the same time with varying levels of emotional involvement. FB is fuck buddy. I was curious enough to do a bit of reading on it after a friend of mine started a business training guys on pickup techniques. I don't really find the whole thing attractive, but then again I have been pretty fortunate with women.
Here is me getting hit with full LMR. Oh wells. I took a video of what I looks like.... lol. So I decided to eat my chalupa instead.
On July 16 2011 03:06 xarthaz wrote: Uhh Wrek hate to break it to you but.. commited monogamous relationship is about the lowest level of gameplay in the PUA scene. The advanced level are : consistent opening style, fast samenight anti-LMR trick gameplay, multi girl juggling style, fastjuggling with FB mechanics, multiple commited relationships. SO if you want advanced content you must work hard, which is why a lot of guys stay monogomous.
WTF are those!!!! O_O I don't know but I got this sudden curious adrenaline pumping in my body!
Beyond the obvious, LMR is last minute (before sex) resistance, the rest are fancy ways of saying being with multiple women at the same time with varying levels of emotional involvement. FB is fuck buddy. I was curious enough to do a bit of reading on it after a friend of mine started a business training guys on pickup techniques. I don't really find the whole thing attractive, but then again I have been pretty fortunate with women.
Here is me getting hit with full LMR. Oh wells. I took a video of what I looks like.... lol. So I decided to eat my chalupa instead.
The girl was on my bed, naked, making out. And then BOOM. Last minute resistance. So I just ended up eating and posting my field report on casanovacrew.com
Then I drove her ass home. So close to a same night lay... oh wells.
On July 16 2011 03:06 xarthaz wrote: Uhh Wrek hate to break it to you but.. commited monogamous relationship is about the lowest level of gameplay in the PUA scene. The advanced level are : consistent opening style, fast samenight anti-LMR trick gameplay, multi girl juggling style, fastjuggling with FB mechanics, multiple commited relationships. SO if you want advanced content you must work hard, which is why a lot of guys stay monogomous.
WTF are those!!!! O_O I don't know but I got this sudden curious adrenaline pumping in my body!
Beyond the obvious, LMR is last minute (before sex) resistance, the rest are fancy ways of saying being with multiple women at the same time with varying levels of emotional involvement. FB is fuck buddy. I was curious enough to do a bit of reading on it after a friend of mine started a business training guys on pickup techniques. I don't really find the whole thing attractive, but then again I have been pretty fortunate with women.
Here is me getting hit with full LMR. Oh wells. I took a video of what I looks like.... lol. So I decided to eat my chalupa instead.
The girl was on my bed, naked, making out. And then BOOM. Last minute resistance. So I just ended up eating and posting my field report on casanovacrew.com
Then I drove her ass home. So close to a same night lay... oh wells.
With hb like that extreme bf-destroyers and dhvs need to be used bro. you cant bust through her nat sim-city that easily.
On July 16 2011 03:06 xarthaz wrote: Uhh Wrek hate to break it to you but.. commited monogamous relationship is about the lowest level of gameplay in the PUA scene. The advanced level are : consistent opening style, fast samenight anti-LMR trick gameplay, multi girl juggling style, fastjuggling with FB mechanics, multiple commited relationships. SO if you want advanced content you must work hard, which is why a lot of guys stay monogomous.
WTF are those!!!! O_O I don't know but I got this sudden curious adrenaline pumping in my body!
Beyond the obvious, LMR is last minute (before sex) resistance, the rest are fancy ways of saying being with multiple women at the same time with varying levels of emotional involvement. FB is fuck buddy. I was curious enough to do a bit of reading on it after a friend of mine started a business training guys on pickup techniques. I don't really find the whole thing attractive, but then again I have been pretty fortunate with women.
Here is me getting hit with full LMR. Oh wells. I took a video of what I looks like.... lol. So I decided to eat my chalupa instead.
The girl was on my bed, naked, making out. And then BOOM. Last minute resistance. So I just ended up eating and posting my field report on casanovacrew.com
Then I drove her ass home. So close to a same night lay... oh wells.
At least you had delicious mexican food and didn't get an STD. It could have been worse
Either the girl didn't want to get laid in the first place or you did fuck up during trust/comfort prior to seduction, to put it into M3 stages. I kind of assume that a person who films the girl and sits with a pickup forum next to her lacks major social competence in general, but that's another story.
On July 16 2011 03:06 xarthaz wrote: Uhh Wrek hate to break it to you but.. commited monogamous relationship is about the lowest level of gameplay in the PUA scene. The advanced level are : consistent opening style, fast samenight anti-LMR trick gameplay, multi girl juggling style, fastjuggling with FB mechanics, multiple commited relationships. SO if you want advanced content you must work hard, which is why a lot of guys stay monogomous.
In my opinion, a lot of it is like fast food. You want more and more of it, but it's definitly not healthy. A lot of the "advanced PUAs" I met in my life have major issues with themselves and compensate that by going out to sarge even more. If you read "The Game" from a psychological point of view, Mystery is bipolar with borderline tendencies and Style is chronically depressive.
Is stuff like multiple FBs (fuckbuddies), SNLs (same-night-lays), MLTR (multiple long term relationships) achievable? Yes. The first two came actually rather easy to me at one point, it's not that hard once you got the basics down. Is it desirable and will it make you more happy? I doubt so.
People underestimate monogamous relationships and most of the pickup coaches I know actually switch between phases with lots of girls and monogamous relationships. A relationship teaches you completely different things about life and yourself which thousand affairs can't do.
Pickup is not that hard, don't pretend it is. After about one year of mediocre commitment (going out 1-3 times per week, random daygame when something juicy was around) I had the level that I could safely walk into a club and get something nice go home with me or get dates with something juicy I found around my normal schedule during the day. Not to mention that I had the confidence that if I find a girl that I really like she has no chance but to admit I'm the man she wants. =P
PS: If you're having troubles with SNLs, work on your screening. If you suck at it, play numbers game. The end. It's rather easy to spot those girls who're looking for it that night anyway, those are the sets you have to game.
On July 16 2011 03:56 r.Evo wrote: LMR only happens if you fucked up earlier.
Either the girl didn't want to get laid in the first place or you did fuck up during trust/comfort prior to seduction, to put it into M3 stages. I kind of assume that a person who films the girl and sits with a pickup forum next to her lacks major social competence in general, but that's another story.
Uhh thats the point. LMR busters are for using pre-MM C3 timings. If you go the NLP/SS/S&A route instead of traditional MM, proficiency in that area is vital for scoring.
On July 16 2011 03:56 r.Evo wrote: LMR only happens if you fucked up earlier.
Either the girl didn't want to get laid in the first place or you did fuck up during trust/comfort prior to seduction, to put it into M3 stages. I kind of assume that a person who films the girl and sits with a pickup forum next to her lacks major social competence in general, but that's another story.
Uhh thats the point. LMR busters are for using pre-MM C3 timings. If you go the NLP/SS/S&A route instead of traditional MM, proficiency in that area is vital for scoring.
Being a NLP master and coach in other areas myself I think most of the stuff that's sold in pickup as "NLP" and "Speedseduction" (what's S&A btw?) includes some major bullshit. Might be due to my background that I never had problems with LMR though. When it's about Trust/Comfort/Connection I'm pretty boss. =P
I pretty much meant all the stuff to "solve" LMR when it actually happens (right before sex) is like applying duct tape, since that stuff exposes major flaws in your earlier stages of gaming her.
Why are you guys still quoting Mystery Method. This is 2011 for christ sakes. Are you still using negs and opinion openers? Seriously, grow some balls and use direct game. Its good for your inner game brah.
I'm going to look more into this. I'm 50/50 whether you are all egotistical bullshitters that prey on LSE/already-slutty/stupid chicks or whether there is actually something to learn here. Something I find disturbing about the whole mess is that there seems to be a disproportionate amount of attention being given to the "how" instead of the what. I find it odd that none of you have mentioned a word about your actual "value" (as you put it), like whether you are rocket scientists or independently wealth businessmen yet. It seems to me that something doesn't quite make sense... Women aren't idiots. Well, at least not the ones worth going for.
EPT
lol. So I decided to eat my chalupa instead.
