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dicex
127 Posts
I watched "Pride and Prejudice" recently. What is the name of the strategy Mr. Darcy used? Because it looked like: Being awkward --> Being awkward --> Being awkward --> Get the hot one Also, lol at this thread still talking about the general pros and cons of PUA. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
On April 29 2012 16:24 dicex wrote: I have a question fopr you guys: What do you do if the girl is more intelligent and way better at "The Game" than yourself. If she behaves exactly in such a way that you think you have failed, just to test if you use some "get-laid-instantly-PUA-strategies" you read on the internet. I watched "Pride and Prejudice" recently. What is the name of the strategy Mr. Darcy used? Because it looked like: Being awkward --> Being awkward --> Being awkward --> Get the hot one Also, lol at this thread still talking about the general pros and cons of PUA. Tell her that I love the way she's flirting and that she's able to make me nervous. Basically whenever a woman manages to get me nervous I tell her about it, give her props for it and move on. Basically I'm turning "ohfuckohfuck I'm nervous " into "Yeah, I'm nervous. You're hot. Of course I'm nervous. So what?" If she points out something I do or don't do ("Don't you have to say xy now?" / "Stop turning away when I say something you don't like.") I either go completely over the top or give her props for understanding what is going on between men and women in general, ridicule some over the top steps she is probably aware of then as well and, in most cases, have fun talking with her about picking up girls. Besides those examples I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "behaves in such a way that you think you have failed". The only times I've seen that really happen is if she's doing it in a playful way and then it's part of the flirting so it probably doesn't count. Like, either she's playing along, she's not attracted or she has big balls and thinks the topic is stupid. If she is attracted it just needs me to point out HER behaviour to make her self-conscious about it. Then it's back to the steps above. tl;dr: Honesty is what turns slight losses into big wins more than anything else. The second you are completely honest about it if she smells anything fishy it is a huge bonus because it requires balls to admit whatever it's about. If you are really cool with what you do and who you are this stuff happens automatically as usual. Kind of all comes down to framing as most things in pickup. | ||
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dicex
127 Posts
Edit: Waht I mean is, you have to be just yourself and be cool about it right? | ||
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NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
On April 29 2012 16:24 dicex wrote: I watched "Pride and Prejudice" recently. What is the name of the strategy Mr. Darcy used? Because it looked like: Being awkward --> Being awkward --> Being awkward --> Get the hot one Exactly. Romantic fiction (generally aimed at women) and feelgood romantic comedies (generally aimed at nice guys and women) are both proponents that the way to win a girls heart is with all the moving slow, cute gestures, buying chocolate and compliments that most teenage guys can tell you they see over and over and it (generally) doesn't work. Its not malicious, it just makes for a good story and is the way a lot of people think the world "should" work. There's an excellent article on this idea that you can read here: Why NOT to get dating advice from women The PUA community tells a nice guy who is willing to listen that that's not the way it works, that's what the women and mainstream media want you to believe and what to change to actually get results. Its even got its own name, "taking the red pill" (-> Matrix). If the guy doesn't want to listen, that's his choice, and he keeps doing things the same (probably) unsuccessful way he always has. Most of the people posting in this thread have had this moment at some stage or another, swallowed the pill and one of the reasons they post in this thread is to offer the same choice to other guys who are currently how they used to be. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
On April 29 2012 17:02 dicex wrote: So, as soon as both the girl and you are self-conscious about some PU Artistry going on, aren't you back to square one because it doesn't make sense to use tricks anymore and you both are one step above "the game"? Edit: Waht I mean is, you have to be just yourself and be cool about it right? Basically it's just a meta-level. You both know what's going on and you're able to joke about it. Also if she's like a real nerd (only happened to me once so far lol) about pickup you can go back and forth pointing out stuff and accuse each other of doing things. Like, it's the same as "normal" flirting, you just accuse her of shittesting instead of trying to bust your balls. =D Well technically, yes, everything boils down to "be yourself and be cool about it". The problem (and the whole reason as to why something like pickup exists) is that most people a) aren't themselves and b) aren't cool about it at all. (*) That's why "Oh, just be yourself and be cool"-advice turns results like "I invited her to dinner for our first date and brought flowers. I also told her how much I already love her and after like 3 hours of talking I tried to kiss her but she said she just wants to be friends."-BUT YOU TOLD ME TO JUST BE MYSELF WTF WTF WTF?! In an ideal world pickup material would just boost your confidence, your self-awareness and make you a "normal" or probably rather "natural" human being who has straight priorities, is (mostly) independant from outside factors and enjoys being social with other people. Most people have neither of the above and similar things, that's why telling them to "Just be themselves" turns out to not work at all. Most of the actual techniques in pickup (lines, patterns etc.) can be boiled down to "Do it that way until you got positive feedback to that behaviour, then you are able to 'be yourself' in that regard." - once you got enough positive feedback to for example NOT investing huge amounts of money into a girl you barely know it becomes a behaviour you start to adapt over the old once yourself once it is more successfull (which it will be). Pickup techniques just exist to help you try out that new behaviour and get positive feedback on it. (*)...due to social conditioning, being afraid, having unresolved issues, bad experiences etc. pp. blah. PS: I'm keeping "techniques" in italic because the concepts behind the techniques stay the same, on matter if it's intended, learned or unconscious behaviour. Those are two different things and trying to understanding what they do has two different goals. | ||
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Pillage
United States804 Posts
On April 29 2012 16:24 dicex wrote: I have a question fopr you guys: What do you do if the girl is more intelligent and way better at "The Game" than yourself. If she behaves exactly in such a way that you think you have failed, just to test if you use some "get-laid-instantly-PUA-strategies" you read on the internet. I watched "Pride and Prejudice" recently. What is the name of the strategy Mr. Darcy used? Because it looked like: Being awkward --> Being awkward --> Being awkward --> Get the hot one Also, lol at this thread still talking about the general pros and cons of PUA. I've found that if she knows what you're up to when it comes to gaming, you can either up the game to really sweep her off her feet. Or you can dance around the issue if she detects what you're doing. This can lead to some real banter and rapport, which can be quite fun for both. This opens up even more possibilities, which can be pursued however you want. | ||
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NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
Buying presents for parties with a female host, especially birthdays. If yes, examples of different, cheap ideas would be excellent. If no, why not? And how do you handle the moment where the host (and possibly several of her friends) give you that vibe like "you just screwed up" when you arrive with nothing? Does it change based on if you've placed yourself as just a friend, or if you're trying to make more happen? I read something somewhere about how not buying a present makes you both memorable and a focus of attention. Plus, buying things for girls on dates is generally not recommended as it communicates that you don't think your own value is enough and/or that you're trying to be a "provider" type in her life. On the other hand, there is a TON of social pressure on this issue. | ||
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Pillage
United States804 Posts
On April 29 2012 17:53 NDDseer wrote: Looking for opinions: Buying presents for parties with a female host, especially birthdays. If yes, examples of different, cheap ideas would be excellent. If no, why not? And how do you handle the moment where the host (and possibly several of her friends) give you that vibe like "you just screwed up" when you arrive with nothing? Does it change based on if you've placed yourself as just a friend, or if you're trying to make more happen? I read something somewhere about how not buying a present makes you both memorable and a focus of attention. Plus, buying things for girls on dates is generally not recommended as it communicates that you don't think your own value is enough and/or that you're trying to be a "provider" type in her life. On the other hand, there is a TON of social pressure on this issue. Personally I won't buy anything significant for a girl until I've gotten in her pants. To me, it pushes you more toward a friendship relationship with her rather than a sexual relationship if you're purchasing gifts before your relationship has reached a certain level of intimacy. Buying her a drink on the third or fourth date, there's nothing wrong with that. It sends a small message that you'd like to see her happy, but that you won't bend over backwards to please her, plus it makes sure you're not a total scrooge in her eyes. I think even showing up to a girl's birthday party is a treat enough for her. Your time is valuable after all, and she should be grateful that you're even coming to see her. If she believes otherwise, she's entitled to the point where maintaining a relationship with her is too costly. Just my thoughts. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
I think even showing up to a girl's birthday party is a treat enough for her. Your time is valuable after all, and she should be grateful that you're even coming to see her. Stop. STOP. STOP RIGHT THERE. Becoming better with women does not mean that you have to behave like a social douche canoe. It is about a frickin' birthday party. If you get invited to a birthday party do what everyone else does - bring an appropriate present. "Appropriate" is based both on your and the hosts background and relationship. Going there without bringing anything does not make you special, it does not show how awesome and independent you are, it just makes you look like a douche. If you are really worried about this subject this is one of the few cases where I say that a rule always applies: If it's okay to do for a dude you have a similar relationship with, it's okay to do for a girl you're interested in. .... Same for the "don't buy her a drink". That rule exist so that guys don't buy her a drink trying to get into her pants. Buying her a drink is completely fine, even early, if there are no strings attached. Since most guys who suck with girls aren't capable of making that judgement you tell them "Don't buy her anything." The real version of that 'rule' is: "Don't invest more than she does." Edit: Just realized I sound mad as hell. Sorry. =P ... It's just that that mindset is completely over the top. Also it's like very, very common to read advice/thoughts like this. Think about what the actual goals are of a certain "standard" procedure. What's happening to you at the moment is that you let pickup dogmas get in the way of your common sense. Don't let it do that, firstly it won't work and second it won't make you any better as a person. :o Now for the actual present it depends on how long you know each other, how you met, what kind of history you have, why you got invited in the first place, where the party is etc. pp. ... For example you can't go wrong with flowers or something small she loves to eat if the paty is at her home. Ideal case it's - just like with any present - something small and thoughtfull. Some examples I bought in the past for similar small events include Häagen-Dazs icecream, chocolate coffee beans, or Fazer Mints (some finnish awesome sweets thing, when I got invited to that party I was literally standing on a ferry towards Sweden and instantly bought it). If the relationship is longer I'd start going for books or weird CDs/DVDs. Like there one girl where I brought the Skyrim soundtrack to her party because I remembered her almost dieing of a heart attack when she heard the soundtrack without knowing what it belonged to. | ||
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Pillage
United States804 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:31 r.Evo wrote: Stop. STOP. STOP RIGHT THERE. Becoming better with women does not mean that you have to behave like a social douche canoe. It is about a frickin' birthday party. If you get invited to a birthday party do what everyone else does - bring an appropriate present. "Appropriate" is based both on your and the hosts background and relationship. Going there without bringing anything does not make you special, it does not show how awesome and independent you are, it just makes you look like a douche. If you are really worried about this subject this is one of the few cases where I say that a rule always applies: If it's okay to do for a dude you have a similar relationship with, it's okay to do for a girl you're interested in. .... Same for the "don't buy her a drink". That rule exist so that guys don't buy her a drink trying to get into her pants. Buying her a drink is completely fine, even early, if there are no strings attached. Since most guys who suck with girls aren't capable of making that judgement you tell them "Don't buy her anything." The real version of that 'rule' is: "Don't invest more than she does." Who the fuck says I'm going to act like a douche if I go to a party even though I don't bring a present? Huh? Who the fuck says I'm an asshole. but who manages his money carefully because he doesn't want to piss it away on some drink whore? Honestly dude I'm getting really sick of you jumping down everyone's throats just because you don't like how they operate. I never ever ever ever ever said that this is the only way to do things. This is simply what I do and to me it seems that you can't stand the fact that I have my own methods. I even said at the end these are just my thoughts. You need to calm the fuck down and get off of your egotistical high horse. There's so much more to it than what I outlined, and yes I could have elaborated better but you have no fucking excuse for biting my head off like that. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
The main point still stands: "My pure presence at your birthday party is treat enough and my time is very valuable so you should be grateful that I show up." is a douchy attitude. Like, I doubt most people would invite anyone who is serious about that attitude. ---> It's socially incompetant. My wording was harsh, yeah, sorry, I apologize for that. While I have no problem with you having your own methods, I'm having a problem if you consider this method specifically as something that makes sense from a socially competant point of view. It just doesn't. PS: I'm not sure why you go someones birthday party who you consider "some drink whore" in the first place. >_> | ||
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phyre112
United States3090 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:41 Pillage wrote: Who the fuck says I'm going to act like a douche if I go to a party even though I don't bring a present? Huh? Who the fuck says I'm an asshole. but who manages his money carefully because he doesn't want to piss it away on some drink whore? Honestly dude I'm getting really sick of you jumping down everyone's throats just because you don't like how they operate. I never ever ever ever ever said that this is the only way to do things. This is simply what I do and to me it seems that you can't stand the fact that I have my own methods. I even said at the end these are just my thoughts. You need to calm the fuck down and get off of your egotistical high horse. There's so much more to it than what I outlined, and yes I could have elaborated better but you have no fucking excuse for biting my head off like that. If you're close enough with a girl to be a part of her Birthday party (a real part, not just some guy who's chilling there, invited for giggles, doesn't really know anyone) then she's clearly not "some drink whore". As far as r.evo's posting goes in the thread - sure he has his own ideas, but I rarely see them pushed down anyone throat (like some other posters do) and for the most part it's more than solid advice, it's advice with the reasoning behind it. Hell, he says right in this post that this is one of the few times an absolute rule applies... and I agree. If you would feel comfortable buying a gift for a guy that you knew this well, then get one for the girl. Of course, most of the time that turns into a $5 gag gift that's wrapped in condoms instead of wrapping paper. | ||
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NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
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Pillage
United States804 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:53 r.Evo wrote: You could have read the first edit I made like 3 minutes after my post, sorry if you missed it. The main point still stands: "My pure presence at your birthday party is treat enough and my time is very valuable so you should be grateful that I show up." is a douchy attitude. Like, I doubt most people would invite anyone who is serious about that attitude. ---> It's socially incompetant. My wording was harsh, yeah, sorry, I apologize for that. While I have no problem with you having your own methods, I'm having a problem if you consider this method specifically as something that makes sense from a socially competant point of view. It just doesn't. PS: I'm not sure why you go someones birthday party who you consider "some drink whore" in the first place. >_> The drink example was separate from the birthday party scenario, I wasn't implying it was here, rather when one is trying to meet new girls in the bar / club scene, w here they'll do anything in their power to not have to pay for alcohol. As I've said before I really do not give gifts under any obligatory circumstances to women I'm messing around with. To step back a bit though, it really depends on the type of girl you are chasing when you decide whether or not to give gifts. Lets consider two cases of the birthday scenario just for thinking purposes. Case 1: This is a girl you'd like to be on good terms with socially at the minimum. She's everything you'd want in a woman: humble, loyal, radiant, attractive. She has the respect of her female peers, as well as her work colleagues. Giving her something small in this instance is not that big of a deal, as she's got her head on straight and doesn't have what I like to call an "entitlement mentality" . She understands that she shouldn't take anything she loves for granted. Women like this are very rare the further you go up the scale of attractiveness. That's just a fact. Girls know that the better they look, the more chumps exist that will bend over backwards to please them anyway they can. If you find a girl that's an 9+ and doesn't do that, and has some of the traits I listed above, marry that woman. Which brings me to case 2 Case 2: This girl is the bombshell that walks into a bar/club and turns heads before she even walks past the bouncers. This is the woman who causes girls to moan about how they wish they looked like her. This is the woman that probably hasn't had to buy a drink for herself in months. This is a girl who's broken countless hearts of guys she has deemed inadequate for her needs. This is the woman who has perfected walking the line between being sexual vs getting the shamed label of slut. These are the type of women I go after for flings. You may think this is a hopelessly materialistic attitude toward relationships, to find and fool around with as many hot girls as possible, but it's my choice to do so, and I'm happy with it. I've found throughout the years that many of these types of girls expect everything to be given to them. They expect free drinks, a shoulder to cry on when they're hurt, the list goes on, I'm sure you can name many more. This "entitlement mentality" needs to be broken in order to foster a smooth, inexpensive fling for the guy. To elaborate, one must first prove to a hot girl that the mind games that work on the general male population won't work on that person. To put it in brief, its done through DHV, but let's not open that can of worms again. Now back to the matter at hand: To give or not to give. For the second girl I would not give her anything, as my judgement in a perfect world would identify her as a girl with this said "entitlement mentality". Is it douchey to do so? Arguably yes. Is it insinuating that you've got more girls chasing you than she does guys chasing her? Yes, in an absolutely brutal sense it sends a message that she's not that important to you. To clarify, the goal here is to let her know that she is disposable in a subtle manner. This instills dread in a person that is one of the most terrifying feelings someone can experience. Doing this in a long term relationship is borderline suicidal for the relationship itself. Doing this in a fling or FWB relationship lets the woman know that you make the rules, and if she doesn't like them she can walk right out the door, and in some cases they do (I've had it happen). In the other cases they perceive that they're worse off without you, and they're driven closer to you, and the ball is in your court at this point. Socially it makes sense as you can extend your control to the strength of a vice-grip over certain types of women, which means you get more of what you want. To tell you the truth if I were invited to a birthday party and was expected to bring a gift, I'd just make up some excuse about not being able to make it, and subsequently enjoy a little bit of time for myself. It's not a good situation to put yourself in if you're not in an LTR, as you'll probably knock down your chances at seducing the girl, unless you're a true game wizard (Which I by no means am). To me this gift-giving situation comes down to hitting the home run or striking out. I prefer taking a more slow and steady approach, and I think it works far better for the types of girls I'm going after, who through their looks expect the world to be their bitch. | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
On April 29 2012 16:24 dicex wrote: I have a question fopr you guys: What do you do if the girl is more intelligent and way better at "The Game" than yourself. If she behaves exactly in such a way that you think you have failed, just to test if you use some "get-laid-instantly-PUA-strategies" you read on the internet. I watched "Pride and Prejudice" recently. What is the name of the strategy Mr. Darcy used? Because it looked like: Being awkward --> Being awkward --> Being awkward --> Get the hot one Also, lol at this thread still talking about the general pros and cons of PUA. That's like saying. What do you do against a basketball player whos way better than you. How do you win vs Michael Jordan. Well, the short term strategy is.... NOTHING, other than do your best lol. Long term strategy is... practice, get more intelligence, and be better at game lol. | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
ZERO TIMES. No girl has ever asked me "are you a PUA" The only thing thats close was: "Is that your pick up line" I usually respond two ways: "Am I supposed to be picking you up? Do you think every guy who talks to you is trying to pick you up?" basically not falling to her frame. Some times I will say: "Only if its working" with a smirk on my face. Then continue on some other bullshit. Simple as that. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
Let's stick with the bombshell and the "I just wanna screw her"-scenario. In that case.. there is no reason to show up to any social gathering. Basically there would be two reasons for showing up at anything like that with or for a girl (doesn't even have to be a birthdayparty): 1) You want to check each other out when it comes to how you act in the other persons social environment. While that opens up the possibility of major DHV situations, it also builds a boatload of rapport/comfort and is therefor not ideal if you just want to get into her pants. Dating or basically doing anything just as you two and no one else is way more efficient there. 2) You want to friendzone her and "abuse" her to get to know her hot friends. So, yeah... in that scenario I agree that going to such a party is plain stupid in fact I would go one step further: If you only aim for a sexual relation with that girl and she DOES invite you to an event like that, you fucked up somewhere earlier. - Like, she wants to introduce you to her social circle. That means she either already shot you down as a suitable mate (let's not assume that lol), or she wants to find out how much of a relationship material you are. =S .... Now for the general bombshell attitude, what I have a problem with personally (white-knighting incoming) is this part: To clarify, the goal here is to let her know that she is disposable in a subtle manner. This instills dread in a person that is one of the most terrifying feelings someone can experience. Doing this in a long term relationship is borderline suicidal for the relationship itself. Call me an idealist, but if I had fun with a girl in any kind of way and I didn't achieve "Leave her better than you find her" because of me failsaucing along the way, I'm not satisfied. I would be lieing if I said I had relationships with dozens of "bombshells" like that but my general experience is that they are exactly the same as the girl in case 1. They just are fed up with the hundreds of guys hitting on them and started to think like "Well, if they're dumb enough I'm not gonna say no." To be on the same page, the type of girls I'm talking about in my case are either fetish models or, in one case, a bodypaint model for a larger automobile company. My guess is that's the same league as strippers (kinda your standard "omg 10101010!!111"-example) or what you're talking about. What these women have in common is: They're assholes to literally anyone. Especially most men. But what you call "entitlement mentality" is, from my view, just the obvious and outer shell: Their "bitchshield". I also agree that giving them free stuff before you're past that part of their personality is a stupid idea. But past that it entirely depends on the person and situation. For example in case of the bodypaint model I already had fun talking with her past the initial approach, wanted something to drink, got up and said "I'll get something to drink, you want something as well?" - To avoid buying that drink for her I would have to either let her go to the bar herself, have her come along with me or hand me money so that I could buy it for her. None of those scenarios are acceptable if dealing with a girl in that league. Just go up and say "I'll buy a drink brb"? Kinda douchy and most likely that she's going to ask if I can bring something along for her. Telling her to come along? Sure, possible. But it makes no sense. Even in a more classy nightclub, you're going to have to wait and fight the crowd a bit. More than that, you're going to lose the seats you had if you both go up. Now, the imo worst case: You let her fuddle out her purse, get you some bucks and you bring the drink and some spare change back. That's not alpha, that's cheap. She doesn't consider herself cheap and she is able to easily get a guy who's not cheap himself. While I'm not saying it's a total dealbreaker, it certainly doesn't mean bonus points either. Back to the example above, I got the drink for her and - that's the important part - made no deal out of it. Most guys show a girl they bought something some kind of "I bought this for you now be grateful"-attitude. If you just buy it because you can/want to and be done with it that is a huge, huge bonus. In that specific case, I pointed out later that she drinks damn fast and she was like "Oh, yeah, I would totally take another one of those" to which I responded "Sure, this time it's your turn". Case closed. tl;dr: Just because you want "only" sex from a girl that doesn't mean that you have to treat her like a stupid piece of meat that deserves to be punished for what she's usually doing. You can still handle her like a normal human being. You don't HAVE to show her who is boss, you just have to show her that she's neither intimidating nor that you're going to be her little puppy. In my world, as someone who understands how things between men and women better than 99% of the general male population, this knowledge gives me great power. It's only fair that I handle that power with responsibility and avoid creating negative feelings. There's enough people without a clue who already do that. | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
2. Don't ever buy a girl anything till you had sex with her. General rule. If you made out with a girl, its okay to buy her a drink. If you had sex with her and you want to continue to hang out with her, you can buy her something to show you like her. Typically fuck buddies don't last more than 1-2 months. If you wan't longer relationship, you better start investing. MLTRs usually last 3-6 months (of course ball park ranges). If you are just her fuck buddy, that means shes probably fucking other guys. Once she sleeps with other dudes, the oxytocin kicks in with other dude and if you aren't investing, and the other guy starts investing, you are going to likely lose the girl as she will feel more emotional bond with the other guy. But yeah, always be graceful. I always pay for food. Don't be the PUA wannabe who tries to swing the other way. Like "I never pay bitches anything attitude". Its all good to buy girl stuff as long as its not in the mentality of buying something to get in her pants. Buy it if you want to and not try to something in return. | ||
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SeXyBaCk
Switzerland174 Posts
One dude asked whether getting a b-day present is sensible and it turns into some discussion about what kind of women another guy is into ... oh-kay... impressive? NDD, if you want a more grounded perspective: don't go investigating on facebook that's creepy. You are obviously into this girl, but that doesn't factor in in regard to gifts. 3 questions. Are you a tightwad? How old are you? How many people going to this party? For me it's a question of class, if I'm invited somewhere I bring something. Can be something as miniscule as a loaf of warm bread. Just ask your friends if they're bringing something. You don't want to be the person who brought nothing, probably will go unnoticed but it make you feel rotten, equally you don't want to be the only guy bringing something. So if you're old enough, just be a dude and bring a bottle of absinth, tequilla or jägermeister just to do shots later in the evening. If bringing booze is below you, you can get flowers that look like a ball of hay but start blossoming once you put them in water, or just bring something exotic to eat from the market. | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
Anyways, is birthday really an environment for seduction? Its a lose lose situation. If you get her nothing and her friends all get her something, you look like a cheap bastard. If you get her something and her friends all get her something, she just put you in the same category as her other friends. Whoever asking this question is in a scarcity mentality. If you have more numbers than you can follow up, and a list of girls that you call and they come over.... you wouldn't be fixated on this random girl's bday. Stop worrying about that specific girl, and go do more cold approaches. Because if your game was tight, you would be SNLing her and not be 1 month later still trying to figure out how to get in her pants lol! | ||
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