On April 22 2011 16:20 bwally wrote: I think currently IdrA is better than he was in Korea so he is probably the best atm.
What? What has he done since he came to NA? Since he wins more games on his stream now that he is in NA instead of Korea?
He's added new styles and just doesn't 200/200 and attack every game. And consider the state of zerg in big tournaments as others have said. He'll show wins soon I think.
Just because he's added new styles to his stream doesn't make him the best zerg. He has yet to show these styles in tournaments. Again people are missing the point of this thread. It's asking for the current zerg king, not the future zerg king.
hmmm guess you didn't watch MLG, NASL, TSL, IPL.
I have not been following nasl much i admit. But I watched both mlg and tsl, and i'm not sure what kind of results you are trying to pull up here. 7th at mlg (which isn't that bad all things considered) and knocked out of the first round of tsl (given I'm not a fan of crunchers play). Idra is no doubt a great zerg, but his results have been lacking and it's silly to call him the zerg king right now.
Well I meant he is adding and/or finding new ways to kill protoss which is mainly the problem for most zergs. It won't change overnight but he is gradually becoming better with that MU.
I know what you meant, and it's exactly my point. Where in this thread do you see a question asking who is trying to figure out zvp and is becoming more and more successful with the matchup? Your post is irrelevant. I'll say this again, this thread is asking for the current best zerg, and with the results idra have posted, it's ridiculous to call him the best, though he is pretty high up there (top 5).
Well the poll is subjective whether you like it or not, based on whatever the person voting thinks.
And in regards to every other zerg besides IdrA, you could argue none of them have done anything more noteworthy than IdrA to date. Everybody always cites Nestea's GSL win but that was 4-5 months ago and how many bug fixes/patches/metagame changes/etc. So I think Nestea/July/etc is on the descent and IdrA is on the ascent. So to rephrase maybe there is no top zerg atm but IdrA is probably the best chance to be the one.
On April 22 2011 16:10 Klive5ive wrote: IdrA has 95% competitive vs Zerg win ratio. With his last 10 games all being wins. Everyone tries twice as hard to beat him, playing with the underdog mentality. If you had to assign a Zerg king he would be it.
BUT no Zerg is really doing very well at the moment and every Zerg has weaknesses in their play. Someone needs to put all the pieces of Zerg together and then they could be the true Zerg king.
Idra does not have a 95% win ratio vs z, that's only his record against foreigners...
The best zerg based off results and play is nestea, there are many that follow closely after but to say idra is the king of zerg is laughable.
NesTea recent results like losing to Goody? We're not talking about 3 months ago we're talking about now. NesTea and Losira have been practicing together and with MVP and Younghwa for a long time and haven't shown anything particularly impressive recently. You can't be a Zerg king right now when your results are declining and you aren't showing anything really impressive.
Well if you want the best based off the absolute most current results, the answer is losira (winning code A) or july (finals of the gsl). I'm not going to speak on Nesteas games to goody because I have my own personal thoughts on them which I don't wanna cause drama with. If you're going to bring up Nesteas loss to Goody, why not bring up Idras loss to Cruncher? But in the end you're partially right, there really is no true zerg king.
On April 22 2011 16:39 TheAmazombie wrote: I had to vote for the empty throne, but overall I think it is Sen. He is just an overall scary player and I think he is just inches away from being the best.
Wait wait wait. You vote Sen as the king of zerg and then go on to say that he isn't the best?
On April 22 2011 15:38 RogueStatus wrote: FXOSheth
I don't think Sheth actually has the mechanics to keep up with the top zergs. His decision making is his strongest point, but if you watch Idra or Sen stream and compare to sheth's play, it seems like the game is in a slower mode.
Jaedong already has the throne, but hes just patiently waiting to reveal his god like play when the public can handle it so they all don't have the WTF face lol.
In seriousness, i dont think its quite filled but with consistency and overall understanding of zerg at this point, if i had to pick i would say probably Nestea. If Nestea was a little younger i think he would do a bit better since he would be more alert, have more energy, etc. Im hoping/praying LosirA takes the knowledge of Nestea and make more use of it over a longer period of time and perfect everything Nestea has flaws in. It sadly will prob not go 100% that way and if it does will take time but im really looking forward to more Losira matches in this GSL to see what hes really made of and if he can fully handle or dominate Code S in the near future as a zerg wunderkind lol.
If we're basing it off only the most recent results then yea, it's definitely Losira. Winning Code A and Allkilling team ZeNeX in the latest GSTL. No other zerg has performed as well as him in recent tournaments.
On April 22 2011 15:38 RogueStatus wrote: FXOSheth
I don't think Sheth actually has the mechanics to keep up with the top zergs. His decision making is his strongest point, but if you watch Idra or Sen stream and compare to sheth's play, it seems like the game is in a slower mode.
Yes if he had better mechanics he would be #1 or #2 best zerg in NA at least.
well July did get second in code S losing to MC in a PvZ, and he tore it up in the GSLWC and losing to MVP (the best TvZer) isn't exactly an "on the decline" sort of signal
I think July is highly underrated still by foreigners
Achievement-wise, Nestea is still the king. In terms of current form, I would say July or Losira.
Of course, there is only one true Zerg King in the world of Starcraft and that is The Tyrant, The Destroyer, The Legend Killer...... LEE JAE DONG!!!!!!!!!!!
On April 22 2011 11:17 Horse...falcon wrote: But that is where the comparison ends. Kobe is a true competitor. Again and again he has willed himself to the top of the Basketball world. Idra's play has always been impressive yet his results have been lackluster. He also has a penchant to complain and pout when he views the odds to be stacked against him. Many were disappointed when it appeared that Idra gave up against TLO at MLG Dallas and against oGsMC at the Dreamhack invitational. Champions do not give up. Idra has the talent to become our Zerg King, but unless he changes his heart he will just be another Lebron James.
Fruitdealer - GSL Open Season 1 Champion. Has performed poorly since.
This irks me when people say things like this.
1. Talking about imbalances and making complaints does not mean you win or more less. Not whining doesn't make a person any more of a game winner, it just makes them less controversial. If Idra changed his heart (without balance changes, which would be the only thing to do so), it wouldn't make him any better of a player — I think it's ridiculous when people say stuff like that.
2. Fruitdealer never performed too great — I wouldn't say he performed poorly, or that is is now poorly player, it's just that he got lucky when he won the GSL. Tournaments have a big luck factor, and it really helped him out. Sure he's fantastic compared to an average competitive gamer, but he has never performed well compared to great players.
People talk about things so black-and-white. I hear people say other things than the two I mentioned here like "zergs think PvZ is imbal cause of July vs MVP". Sure July vs MVP was a good example of imbalance, but that game was just one in a thousand of competent players playing and the zerg getting bamboozled by a combination of factors (such as protoss versatility, zerg scouting weakness, and forcefield's power)
The fact is people can't just look at one or two games. If zerg wins a game going mass queen, you can't say mass queen is the answer to everything, it's s ridiculous. When a terran wins a tournament it doesn't mean terran is imbalanced, tournaments are a factor of luck, and skill, and then balance. When you want to see balance you need to look at large statistics, many games, and lots of theory and professional player discussions, and it can sometimes be hard to find the right numbers which indicate the proper conclusions.
On April 22 2011 16:20 bwally wrote: I think currently IdrA is better than he was in Korea so he is probably the best atm.
What? What has he done since he came to NA? Since he wins more games on his stream now that he is in NA instead of Korea?
He's added new styles and just doesn't 200/200 and attack every game. And consider the state of zerg in big tournaments as others have said. He'll show wins soon I think.
Just because he's added new styles to his stream doesn't make him the best zerg. He has yet to show these styles in tournaments. Again people are missing the point of this thread. It's asking for the current zerg king, not the future zerg king.
hmmm guess you didn't watch MLG, NASL, TSL, IPL.
I have not been following nasl much i admit. But I watched both mlg and tsl, and i'm not sure what kind of results you are trying to pull up here. 7th at mlg (which isn't that bad all things considered) and knocked out of the first round of tsl (given I'm not a fan of crunchers play). Idra is no doubt a great zerg, but his results have been lacking and it's silly to call him the zerg king right now.
Well I meant he is adding and/or finding new ways to kill protoss which is mainly the problem for most zergs. It won't change overnight but he is gradually becoming better with that MU.
I know what you meant, and it's exactly my point. Where in this thread do you see a question asking who is trying to figure out zvp and is becoming more and more successful with the matchup? Your post is irrelevant. I'll say this again, this thread is asking for the current best zerg, and with the results idra have posted, it's ridiculous to call him the best, though he is pretty high up there (top 5).
Well the poll is subjective whether you like it or not, based on whatever the person voting thinks.
And in regards to every other zerg besides IdrA, you could argue none of them have done anything more noteworthy than IdrA to date. Everybody always cites Nestea's GSL win but that was 4-5 months ago and how many bug fixes/patches/metagame changes/etc. So I think Nestea/July/etc is on the descent and IdrA is on the ascent. So to rephrase maybe there is no top zerg atm but IdrA is probably the best chance to be the one.
I'm not sure where I cited Nesteas gsl win... Anyways, if you want to base this off current results then the answer is July and Losira. Though obviously like you, I agree that there is no undisputed current zerg king like there is for terran(mvp) and protoss(mc). I don't know how you could say Idra is on the ascent, seeing as his results have been declining in the past 2 months.
On April 22 2011 16:20 bwally wrote: I think currently IdrA is better than he was in Korea so he is probably the best atm.
What? What has he done since he came to NA? Since he wins more games on his stream now that he is in NA instead of Korea?
He's added new styles and just doesn't 200/200 and attack every game. And consider the state of zerg in big tournaments as others have said. He'll show wins soon I think.
Just because he's added new styles to his stream doesn't make him the best zerg. He has yet to show these styles in tournaments. Again people are missing the point of this thread. It's asking for the current zerg king, not the future zerg king.
hmmm guess you didn't watch MLG, NASL, TSL, IPL.
I have not been following nasl much i admit. But I watched both mlg and tsl, and i'm not sure what kind of results you are trying to pull up here. 7th at mlg (which isn't that bad all things considered) and knocked out of the first round of tsl (given I'm not a fan of crunchers play). Idra is no doubt a great zerg, but his results have been lacking and it's silly to call him the zerg king right now.
Well I meant he is adding and/or finding new ways to kill protoss which is mainly the problem for most zergs. It won't change overnight but he is gradually becoming better with that MU.
I know what you meant, and it's exactly my point. Where in this thread do you see a question asking who is trying to figure out zvp and is becoming more and more successful with the matchup? Your post is irrelevant. I'll say this again, this thread is asking for the current best zerg, and with the results idra have posted, it's ridiculous to call him the best, though he is pretty high up there (top 5).
Well the poll is subjective whether you like it or not, based on whatever the person voting thinks.
And in regards to every other zerg besides IdrA, you could argue none of them have done anything more noteworthy than IdrA to date. Everybody always cites Nestea's GSL win but that was 4-5 months ago and how many bug fixes/patches/metagame changes/etc. So I think Nestea/July/etc is on the descent and IdrA is on the ascent. So to rephrase maybe there is no top zerg atm but IdrA is probably the best chance to be the one.
in terms of solely recent results (~1 month) july has done 10x better than just about anyone
idra has done almost nothing to give him favor over nestea even when he's done so poorly and he got knocked out of TSL just as quickly as nestea did
Another things that makes this hard, korean zergs are not participating in world tourneys often.
NesTea, Zenio, Losira, Kyrix, July, etc are rarely seen outside of the GSL, and considering at GSL they play at most 5-10 times a month, it's hard to make judgments. As opposed to MC, who plays and wins a lot, or MVP, who has been consistently winning like MKP.
Somewhat off topic but related to why I would choose IdrA.
It leads to a whole other nebulous discussion on why July, Losira are winning...will it last or won't it. Will they be the next fruitdealer. So I am coming from the angle on whether their style or skill can last.
I don't think the comparison of IdrA to Kobe is a good one, if basically the only similarity is that they are both "bad mannered", especially since there are plenty of hot-headed people in the NBA. And he definitely does not rack up the most technicals, but he's up there.
As for the question at hand, I think the main reason that people don't see a clear Zerg King is because no Zerg has been able to bring consistently strong results. I would still say that Nestea stands on top though, with IdrA and Losira close behind.
On April 22 2011 16:57 bwally wrote: Well it comes to a whole other nebulous discussion on why July, Losira are winning...will it last or won't it. Will they be the next fruitdealer. So I am coming from the angle on whether their style or skill can last.
IMO I don't think so.
Which is why your argument (and this thread) is flawed. Read the 2nd sentence of the op. It says something along the lines of..."Who is currently the best zerg in the world?"
It's not asking about who's style will last, or who has already disappeared. That's why fruitdealer isn't on it. Nestea and Sen have not won anything lately but they're posting up much more consistent results than fruitdealer, which is why they're contenders.
These kinds of threads are similar to those which ask for the best player of all time. If you base it off skill/game sense? Flash. If you base it off results and achievements? Nada. If you base it off mechanical prowess? Jaedong. If you base it off testosterone levels? Reach. It all depends on how it's interpreted.
On April 22 2011 16:57 bwally wrote: Somewhat off topic but related to why I would choose IdrA.
It leads to a whole other nebulous discussion on why July, Losira are winning...will it last or won't it. Will they be the next fruitdealer. So I am coming from the angle on whether their style or skill can last.
IMO I don't think so.
lol? seriously? the way in which july and losira did so well in their recent tournaments wasn't based on some overpowered gimmick like scv all ins that rain pulled off in s3
they won with everything and a variety of things including all-ins, aggression, macro, and just straight up outplaying their opponents each of the way through
being safe and predictable hurts more than helps once you become well-known, and that's why idra and nestea are on the decline
On April 22 2011 16:57 bwally wrote: Well it comes to a whole other nebulous discussion on why July, Losira are winning...will it last or won't it. Will they be the next fruitdealer. So I am coming from the angle on whether their style or skill can last.
IMO I don't think so.
Which is why your argument (and this thread) is flawed. Read the 2nd sentence of the op. It says something along the lines of..."Who is currently the best zerg in the world?"
It's not asking about who's style will last, or who has already disappeared. That's why fruitdealer isn't on it. Nestea and Sen have not won anything lately but they're posting up much more consistent results than fruitdealer, which is why they're contenders.
But it's all related to my choice atm...I don't think July's performance in code-S was any good. And losira hasn't made it through code-s to know.
On April 22 2011 16:57 bwally wrote: Somewhat off topic but related to why I would choose IdrA.
It leads to a whole other nebulous discussion on why July, Losira are winning...will it last or won't it. Will they be the next fruitdealer. So I am coming from the angle on whether their style or skill can last.
IMO I don't think so.
lol? seriously? the way in which july and losira did so well in their recent tournaments wasn't based on some overpowered gimmick like scv all ins that rain pulled off in s3
they won with everything and a variety of things including all-ins, aggression, macro, and just straight up outplaying their opponents each of the way through
being safe and predictable hurts more than helps once you become well-known, and that's why idra and nestea are on the decline
EPT
