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On March 25 2011 02:44 genius_man16 wrote:
Wait, how is not releasing the replays 'protecting player builds'?
90% of the time the referee has the production tab open, it's not like you can't just see what build they are going by watching the VOD >.>
I understand about branding and advertising, but saying that not releasing them to 'protect player builds' seems a little silly.
You seem to forget that a build goes past the 3 minute mark. Try keeping track of one players build order when the camera is switching back and force and different tabs are being opened. There's no way you an analyze a vod with the level of detail and accuracy you get from a replay.
And I respect TSL's decision. They're putting on this HUGE tournament, they should be entitled to all the revenue and fame it generates.
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I have another idea, it's a bit of work though. You could edit the maps by adding the sponsor's logo somewhere. No functional changes of course, just changed map textures. The sponsor logo would then be visible all the time on the minimap. One less reason to withhold the replays.
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On March 25 2011 02:44 genius_man16 wrote:
Wait, how is not releasing the replays 'protecting player builds'?
90% of the time the referee has the production tab open, it's not like you can't just see what build they are going by watching the VOD >.>
I understand about branding and advertising, but saying that not releasing them to 'protect player builds' seems a little silly.
It does protect the players builds believe it or not. I am sure this isnt the most prominent reason of why they will not release them, but it is significantly harder to learn builds off of VODs then it is a replay
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On March 25 2011 02:40 strength wrote:
Will there ever be a "SC2 Replay" section on the site just like the TL replay section for bw?
Anyone? =]
And yes, not releasing their players replays will protect their players. I agree 100%. There is a reason why the pro teams in korea do the same. Even started during the old BW days.
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United States13896 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:51 Scorch wrote:
I have another idea, it's a bit of work though. You could edit the maps by adding the sponsor's logo somewhere. No functional changes of course, just changed map textures. The sponsor logo would then be visible all the time on the minimap. One less reason to withhold the replays.
This was tried back in the days of BW in Korea and it was viewed as too invasive and distracting. This creates way more issues than it solves.
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Melbourne5338 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:42 majestouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2011 02:34 Ikuu wrote:On March 25 2011 02:18 Wolf wrote:
Other broadcasters take the replays and make recordings of the game, post them online, and Pokerstrategy.com loses viewers and isn't gaining as much from advertising as it could. Couldn't they just have the Ref say this is the PokerStat. TSL at the start of the game. That way if people were to cast them they would be getting even more publicity. honestly that should be done with all tournament replays and casters should have to be told "you may use these" etc. it would then give tournaments a face for casters etc. for example imagine if gsl replays were released and at the beginning of the game it had some spiel like: GOMTV Global Starcraft League (GSL) SEASON IV up/down matches Code S xxxxx vs yyyyyy These replays are not to be re-casted with out permission from xyz. What are people going to do? re-cast them and put them on youtube? cool, who is going to look at them? anyone who is notable knows not to do it and anyone not notable won't be known either because they are a bad caster or new. thus the problem is solved. this would allow gom to possibly even reach out to say husky who i personally don't like as a caster, but he is great at promoting e-sports and getting new/lesser-skilled players into the game therefore increasing the profit margin of gom. there are still people who will buy premium tickets, however, i feel the current setup is inefficient in more ways than 1, the question is how to make it better but not what makes it bad. i understand protecting personal property etc, but there has to be a better way than the current way, if the method i mentioned above would work in the theory i provided great. if not, there has to be another possible solution.
Just an example, TL Open #2:
HDStarcraft casting with no visible references to sponsors (300,000 viewers)
Team Liquid Official VODs (3000-20000 viewers)
Even with a short message at the start of a replay, a sponsor likely wouldn't accept numbers from other casts with much credibility. Numbers on the official cast would be all that mattered.
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On March 25 2011 03:03 pachi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2011 02:42 majestouch wrote:On March 25 2011 02:34 Ikuu wrote:On March 25 2011 02:18 Wolf wrote:
Other broadcasters take the replays and make recordings of the game, post them online, and Pokerstrategy.com loses viewers and isn't gaining as much from advertising as it could. Couldn't they just have the Ref say this is the PokerStat. TSL at the start of the game. That way if people were to cast them they would be getting even more publicity. honestly that should be done with all tournament replays and casters should have to be told "you may use these" etc. it would then give tournaments a face for casters etc. for example imagine if gsl replays were released and at the beginning of the game it had some spiel like: GOMTV Global Starcraft League (GSL) SEASON IV up/down matches Code S xxxxx vs yyyyyy These replays are not to be re-casted with out permission from xyz. What are people going to do? re-cast them and put them on youtube? cool, who is going to look at them? anyone who is notable knows not to do it and anyone not notable won't be known either because they are a bad caster or new. thus the problem is solved. this would allow gom to possibly even reach out to say husky who i personally don't like as a caster, but he is great at promoting e-sports and getting new/lesser-skilled players into the game therefore increasing the profit margin of gom. there are still people who will buy premium tickets, however, i feel the current setup is inefficient in more ways than 1, the question is how to make it better but not what makes it bad. i understand protecting personal property etc, but there has to be a better way than the current way, if the method i mentioned above would work in the theory i provided great. if not, there has to be another possible solution. Just an example, TL Open #2: HDStarcraft casting with no visible references to sponsors (300,000 viewers)Team Liquid Official VODs (3000-20000 viewers)Even with a short message at the start of a replay, a sponsor likely wouldn't accept numbers from other casts with much credibility. Numbers on the official cast would be all that mattered.
i still believe that it would be possible for the tournament sponsors to have some sort of outreach with big casters like said hd/husky. but i didn't know of numbers like that, it is quite odd/weird tbh how much presentation matters to people. hd's casting is decent analytically and he has good enthusiasm, however, i would prefer day9 over all other casters--not only are his analytical skills arguably the best but also his enthusiasm is amazing thus it appeals to all levels.
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On March 25 2011 02:51 Scorch wrote:
I have another idea, it's a bit of work though. You could edit the maps by adding the sponsor's logo somewhere. No functional changes of course, just changed map textures. The sponsor logo would then be visible all the time on the minimap. One less reason to withhold the replays.
Blizzard won't allow it, it's come up before and Blizz was very firm on that stance. Personally I was happy, it ruins viewer immersion.
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On March 25 2011 02:51 Scorch wrote:
I have another idea, it's a bit of work though. You could edit the maps by adding the sponsor's logo somewhere. No functional changes of course, just changed map textures. The sponsor logo would then be visible all the time on the minimap. One less reason to withhold the replays.
![[image loading]](http://fomos.kr/board/issue/1276483896_1.jpg)
Just make a map for the sponsor!!
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How do you guys make sure the players aren't using map hacks? Thorzain used so many good scans in game 2 vs. fruitdealer, and he found the nydus so fast, I was curious to check the replays to see what he saw and when.
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On March 25 2011 02:44 genius_man16 wrote:
Wait, how is not releasing the replays 'protecting player builds'?
90% of the time the referee has the production tab open, it's not like you can't just see what build they are going by watching the VOD >.>
I understand about branding and advertising, but saying that not releasing them to 'protect player builds' seems a little silly.
With this logic, you wouldn't need the replay for anything anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
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Calgary26004 Posts
On March 25 2011 03:37 dsousa wrote:
How do you guys make sure the players aren't using map hacks? Thorzain used so many good scans in game 2 vs. fruitdealer, and he found the nydus so fast, I was curious to check the replays to see what he saw and when.
Are you serious?
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I'm completely okay with TSL and other pro leagues not releasing replays. Frankly, it doesn't make sense for them to do so from a marketing perspective. Sure, as a fan it'd be nice to be able to see the replays. But it's nicer to have more TSLs, etc. in the future.
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On March 25 2011 03:37 dsousa wrote:
How do you guys make sure the players aren't using map hacks? Thorzain used so many good scans in game 2 vs. fruitdealer, and he found the nydus so fast, I was curious to check the replays to see what he saw and when.
oh come on mate 
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I understand the reasons for not releasing them during the event. What about releasing them a period of time after the event is over? Ad revenue, builds, ect are minimally affected.
There is so much that the VODs miss that viewers should be able to see. A way to tag replays as coming from a certain source would be best if possible(I dont think a text message is enough either).
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You can easily see which people in this thread never watched BW events :D
I'd go with the answer: Never going to happen, deal with it 8)
Players already struggle with concealing their builds and training, no need to make the fruits of their work worthless a day after playing a tournament this big. If you really need to steal somebody's build, there are enough tournaments for you.
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United States12270 Posts
On March 25 2011 03:01 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2011 02:51 Scorch wrote:
I have another idea, it's a bit of work though. You could edit the maps by adding the sponsor's logo somewhere. No functional changes of course, just changed map textures. The sponsor logo would then be visible all the time on the minimap. One less reason to withhold the replays. This was tried back in the days of BW in Korea and it was viewed as too invasive and distracting. This creates way more issues than it solves.
It was extremely common in War3, though I agree it was distracting.
Also: yes it's possible to edit text into replays, quite a few replay storage sites do this automatically.
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How about releasing them after the whole chablang is over? Like 2 weeks after the finals, just release a big ass ZIP file like most other major tournaments have done it (From my Wc3 experience)
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On March 25 2011 02:38 Kennigit wrote:
1) ad revenue from vods
2) protecting player builds
1. You could post the replays where you can receive ad revenue from people downloading them.
2. Player builds are NOT protected once they are used in competition. A person would have to watch a VOD at max maybe twice to really figure a build out and spend a very small amount of time to completely reconstruct it. You're not protecting anything.
Also, replays are a learning tool. By withholding replays you are withholding potential learning tools and potentially useful resources for the advancement of starcraft 2 strategy/advancement of the metagame.
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On March 25 2011 03:41 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2011 03:37 dsousa wrote:
How do you guys make sure the players aren't using map hacks? Thorzain used so many good scans in game 2 vs. fruitdealer, and he found the nydus so fast, I was curious to check the replays to see what he saw and when.
Are you serious?
Ya... sorry, I'm a skeptic
Does that make me a bad person? Why couldn't map hacking happen in something like the TSL?
If there's a good reason, I'd love to know it. Just tell me.
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EPT
