EPT[TSL] Replay files
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bbQ4Aiur
Hong Kong2752 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
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ManKyYen
Germany30 Posts
Since I can't come up with a good reason not to release them on my own, what is TLs reason to keep them under wraps? :-) | ||
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maJes
United Kingdom186 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:16 ManKyYen wrote: Wow, that actually surprises me. Since I can't come up with a good reason not to release them on my own, what is TLs reason to keep them under wraps? :-) The players probably don't want them public. EDIT: Wolf's reason is also a very good one that i hadn't thought of  | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:18 Wolf wrote: Other broadcasters take the replays and make recordings of the game, post them online, and Pokerstrategy.com loses viewers and isn't gaining as much from advertising as it could. Precisely... I agree with this too since it is a way for the players to retain some sort of control on the content they are responsible for creating. | ||
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Ikuu
United Kingdom97 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:18 Wolf wrote: Other broadcasters take the replays and make recordings of the game, post them online, and Pokerstrategy.com loses viewers and isn't gaining as much from advertising as it could. Couldn't they just have the Ref say this is the PokerStat. TSL at the start of the game. That way if people were to cast them they would be getting even more publicity. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:34 Ikuu wrote: Couldn't they just have the Ref say this is the PokerStat. TSL at the start of the game. That way if people were to cast them they would be getting even more publicity. You can't edit sc2replay files like that... | ||
Chill
Calgary25986 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
2) protecting player builds 3) protecting sponsor logo placement in vod/stream. 4) All production value gone. 5) Lose control over our "product". That being said, all the qualifier TL Opens have replays available for download | ||
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Ikuu
United Kingdom97 Posts
The Ref types it out in-game. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:37 Chill wrote: We lose all branding and production if we release them. They won't be released. Chill, your brain is a great contributor to the community. Be sure to thank it sometime ok? I hope you keep it this way too, I think keeping player builds secret is important for honesty in future competitions. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
We don't think that 1 typed text line at the beginning of a match is adequate for the production we are trying to create. This is not something new. You will never find an OSL,MSL,Proleague,GSL or GSTL replay. | ||
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strength
United States493 Posts
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Antedelerium
United States224 Posts
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
Wait since when? Did Blizzard do something to stop that? And anyways, if you could then theres no reason why some other guy couldn't just take out that message. | ||
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majestouch
United States395 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:34 Ikuu wrote: Couldn't they just have the Ref say this is the PokerStat. TSL at the start of the game. That way if people were to cast them they would be getting even more publicity. honestly that should be done with all tournament replays and casters should have to be told "you may use these" etc. it would then give tournaments a face for casters etc. for example imagine if gsl replays were released and at the beginning of the game it had some spiel like: GOMTV Global Starcraft League (GSL) SEASON IV up/down matches Code S xxxxx vs yyyyyy These replays are not to be re-casted with out permission from xyz. What are people going to do? re-cast them and put them on youtube? cool, who is going to look at them? anyone who is notable knows not to do it and anyone not notable won't be known either because they are a bad caster or new. thus the problem is solved. this would allow gom to possibly even reach out to say husky who i personally don't like as a caster, but he is great at promoting e-sports and getting new/lesser-skilled players into the game therefore increasing the profit margin of gom. there are still people who will buy premium tickets, however, i feel the current setup is inefficient in more ways than 1, the question is how to make it better but not what makes it bad. i understand protecting personal property etc, but there has to be a better way than the current way, if the method i mentioned above would work in the theory i provided great. if not, there has to be another possible solution. | ||
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genius_man16
United States749 Posts
90% of the time the referee has the production tab open, it's not like you can't just see what build they are going by watching the VOD >.> I understand about branding and advertising, but saying that not releasing them to 'protect player builds' seems a little silly. | ||
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:44 genius_man16 wrote: Wait, how is not releasing the replays 'protecting player builds'? 90% of the time the referee has the production tab open, it's not like you can't just see what build they are going by watching the VOD >.> I understand about branding and advertising, but saying that not releasing them to 'protect player builds' seems a little silly. You're not gonna catch the real important subtle timings that make a build good without a replay. | ||
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raf3776
United States1904 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:44 genius_man16 wrote: Wait, how is not releasing the replays 'protecting player builds'? 90% of the time the referee has the production tab open, it's not like you can't just see what build they are going by watching the VOD >.> I understand about branding and advertising, but saying that not releasing them to 'protect player builds' seems a little silly. its A LOT harder to learn a build from a vod than a replay. A replay you can see everything exactly while a vod the refs arent studying the food count and timings of everything | ||
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Durn
Canada360 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:44 genius_man16 wrote: Wait, how is not releasing the replays 'protecting player builds'? 90% of the time the referee has the production tab open, it's not like you can't just see what build they are going by watching the VOD >.> I understand about branding and advertising, but saying that not releasing them to 'protect player builds' seems a little silly. You seem to forget that a build goes past the 3 minute mark. Try keeping track of one players build order when the camera is switching back and force and different tabs are being opened. There's no way you an analyze a vod with the level of detail and accuracy you get from a replay. And I respect TSL's decision. They're putting on this HUGE tournament, they should be entitled to all the revenue and fame it generates. | ||
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:44 genius_man16 wrote: Wait, how is not releasing the replays 'protecting player builds'? 90% of the time the referee has the production tab open, it's not like you can't just see what build they are going by watching the VOD >.> I understand about branding and advertising, but saying that not releasing them to 'protect player builds' seems a little silly. It does protect the players builds believe it or not. I am sure this isnt the most prominent reason of why they will not release them, but it is significantly harder to learn builds off of VODs then it is a replay | ||
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strength
United States493 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:40 strength wrote: Will there ever be a "SC2 Replay" section on the site just like the TL replay section for bw? Anyone? =] And yes, not releasing their players replays will protect their players. I agree 100%. There is a reason why the pro teams in korea do the same. Even started during the old BW days. | ||
p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:51 Scorch wrote: I have another idea, it's a bit of work though. You could edit the maps by adding the sponsor's logo somewhere. No functional changes of course, just changed map textures. The sponsor logo would then be visible all the time on the minimap. One less reason to withhold the replays. This was tried back in the days of BW in Korea and it was viewed as too invasive and distracting. This creates way more issues than it solves. | ||
pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:42 majestouch wrote: honestly that should be done with all tournament replays and casters should have to be told "you may use these" etc. it would then give tournaments a face for casters etc. for example imagine if gsl replays were released and at the beginning of the game it had some spiel like: GOMTV Global Starcraft League (GSL) SEASON IV up/down matches Code S xxxxx vs yyyyyy These replays are not to be re-casted with out permission from xyz. What are people going to do? re-cast them and put them on youtube? cool, who is going to look at them? anyone who is notable knows not to do it and anyone not notable won't be known either because they are a bad caster or new. thus the problem is solved. this would allow gom to possibly even reach out to say husky who i personally don't like as a caster, but he is great at promoting e-sports and getting new/lesser-skilled players into the game therefore increasing the profit margin of gom. there are still people who will buy premium tickets, however, i feel the current setup is inefficient in more ways than 1, the question is how to make it better but not what makes it bad. i understand protecting personal property etc, but there has to be a better way than the current way, if the method i mentioned above would work in the theory i provided great. if not, there has to be another possible solution. Just an example, TL Open #2: HDStarcraft casting with no visible references to sponsors (300,000 viewers) Team Liquid Official VODs (3000-20000 viewers) Even with a short message at the start of a replay, a sponsor likely wouldn't accept numbers from other casts with much credibility. Numbers on the official cast would be all that mattered. | ||
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majestouch
United States395 Posts
On March 25 2011 03:03 pachi wrote: Just an example, TL Open #2: HDStarcraft casting with no visible references to sponsors (300,000 viewers) Team Liquid Official VODs (3000-20000 viewers) Even with a short message at the start of a replay, a sponsor likely wouldn't accept numbers from other casts with much credibility. Numbers on the official cast would be all that mattered. i still believe that it would be possible for the tournament sponsors to have some sort of outreach with big casters like said hd/husky. but i didn't know of numbers like that, it is quite odd/weird tbh how much presentation matters to people. hd's casting is decent analytically and he has good enthusiasm, however, i would prefer day9 over all other casters--not only are his analytical skills arguably the best but also his enthusiasm is amazing thus it appeals to all levels. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:51 Scorch wrote: I have another idea, it's a bit of work though. You could edit the maps by adding the sponsor's logo somewhere. No functional changes of course, just changed map textures. The sponsor logo would then be visible all the time on the minimap. One less reason to withhold the replays. Blizzard won't allow it, it's come up before and Blizz was very firm on that stance. Personally I was happy, it ruins viewer immersion. | ||
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:51 Scorch wrote: I have another idea, it's a bit of work though. You could edit the maps by adding the sponsor's logo somewhere. No functional changes of course, just changed map textures. The sponsor logo would then be visible all the time on the minimap. One less reason to withhold the replays. ![[image loading]](http://fomos.kr/board/issue/1276483896_1.jpg) Just make a map for the sponsor!! | ||
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KoshkaTV
United States430 Posts
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:44 genius_man16 wrote: Wait, how is not releasing the replays 'protecting player builds'? 90% of the time the referee has the production tab open, it's not like you can't just see what build they are going by watching the VOD >.> I understand about branding and advertising, but saying that not releasing them to 'protect player builds' seems a little silly. With this logic, you wouldn't need the replay for anything anyway, so it doesn't really matter. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25986 Posts
On March 25 2011 03:37 dsousa wrote: How do you guys make sure the players aren't using map hacks? Thorzain used so many good scans in game 2 vs. fruitdealer, and he found the nydus so fast, I was curious to check the replays to see what he saw and when. Are you serious? | ||
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GeorgeForeman
United States1746 Posts
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
On March 25 2011 03:37 dsousa wrote: How do you guys make sure the players aren't using map hacks? Thorzain used so many good scans in game 2 vs. fruitdealer, and he found the nydus so fast, I was curious to check the replays to see what he saw and when. oh come on mate  | ||
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Spacemanspiff
United States116 Posts
There is so much that the VODs miss that viewers should be able to see. A way to tag replays as coming from a certain source would be best if possible(I dont think a text message is enough either). | ||
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
I'd go with the answer: Never going to happen, deal with it 8) Players already struggle with concealing their builds and training, no need to make the fruits of their work worthless a day after playing a tournament this big. If you really need to steal somebody's build, there are enough tournaments for you. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
On March 25 2011 03:01 p4NDemik wrote: This was tried back in the days of BW in Korea and it was viewed as too invasive and distracting. This creates way more issues than it solves. It was extremely common in War3, though I agree it was distracting. Also: yes it's possible to edit text into replays, quite a few replay storage sites do this automatically. | ||
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:38 Kennigit wrote: 1) ad revenue from vods 2) protecting player builds 1. You could post the replays where you can receive ad revenue from people downloading them. 2. Player builds are NOT protected once they are used in competition. A person would have to watch a VOD at max maybe twice to really figure a build out and spend a very small amount of time to completely reconstruct it. You're not protecting anything. Also, replays are a learning tool. By withholding replays you are withholding potential learning tools and potentially useful resources for the advancement of starcraft 2 strategy/advancement of the metagame. | ||
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KoshkaTV
United States430 Posts
Ya... sorry, I'm a skeptic Does that make me a bad person? Why couldn't map hacking happen in something like the TSL? If there's a good reason, I'd love to know it. Just tell me. | ||
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stk01001
United States786 Posts
On March 25 2011 04:55 stevarius wrote: 1. You could post the replays where you can receive ad revenue from people downloading them. 2. Player builds are NOT protected once they are used in competition. A person would have to watch a VOD at max maybe twice to really figure a build out and spend a very small amount of time to completely reconstruct it. You're not protecting anything. Also, replays are a learning tool. By withholding replays you are withholding potential learning tools and potentially useful resources for the advancement of starcraft 2 strategy/advancement of the metagame. ummm the fact that you think you can get the same info from a VOD as a replay shows how little you actually know about SC2... I'm not even going to get into how retarted your last statement is.. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On March 25 2011 04:55 stevarius wrote: Also, replays are a learning tool. By withholding replays you are withholding potential learning tools and potentially useful resources for the advancement of starcraft 2 strategy/advancement of the metagame. I take full responsibility for any lacks of advancement in starcraft 2 strategy. Just forcefield and win. | ||
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