EPT[D] Why is protoss doing so bad in the GSL? - Page 45
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TungVu
Vietnam25 Posts
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
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Moragon
United States355 Posts
On November 04 2010 09:06 lowercase wrote: Get HTs for feedback, not storm, it's the better of the two spells. Blizzard certainly thought so when they took the energy bars away from thors and corruptors. | ||
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Uninstall
Canada79 Posts
On November 04 2010 06:34 summerloud wrote: i think the main problem with late game is that stalkers are bad and zlots are worthless without charge and are really hard to manage with charge they will charge at the enemy, your slow sentry/temps are stuck behind, enemy kites back, zlots die before the rest of your army even engages instead of charge id much rather have a real speed upgrade like in bw did anyone ever try to disable charge autocast? would be nice if zlots got a speed boost with disabled autocast. or at least if the cooldown was lower and it would autocast on retreat also or something like that i hope the storm change makes storm more powerful but cost more energy. that would be the way to go, the ability to instantly morph in templars anywhere with pylon power AND being able to storm instantly is clearly OP, so thats why storm was nerfed in the first place You can actually turn charge off by right clicking on the icon to disable auto cast. Charge upgrade does make your zealots faster so it is equivalent of the speed upgrade if you turn auto cast off. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
On November 04 2010 09:21 Uninstall wrote: You can actually turn charge off by right clicking on the icon to disable auto cast. Charge upgrade does make your zealots faster so it is equivalent of the speed upgrade if you turn auto cast off. its a very small speed upgrade tho. zealots are just too slow overall. they cant even chase away scouting peons. imagine if zlots were slightly faster than peons, now that would make pvp proxy/18wg/ocannon gayness a lot less effective - you could actually kill his probe after you found it even with charge upgrade their movement speed is still way slower than it was in bw also, i really like the idea multiple ppl had in this thread to lower cost for dark shrine. 250 gas is just ridiculous. id actually rather have dark shrine made cheaper than robo, would open up tech choices a lot. | ||
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ChaosWielder
United States166 Posts
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Lensman
United States17 Posts
Either speed up some key research (psi-storm, extended lance, amulet, warp prism), or allow something to be built without cybercore (robo, stargate, council, something!). | ||
mrdx
Vietnam1555 Posts
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Seide
United States831 Posts
I really miss the goons and reavers, and kinda dislike Warpgate mechanic and colossi(and don't even get me started on the mothershit). I would gladly give up both for just more solid units. Colossi are good, but they are very boring -_-, its like a gimper siege tank that requires less micro and positioning and is easier to counter. Units for toss in SC1 were solid, zealots, goons, reavers, archons, expensive, strong, a lot of supply cost but have a lot of staying power. In SC2 it feel like Protoss units are made of paper in favor of giving them sneaky or tricky to use stuff like Warpgates and Sentries. Reaver harass, is gone, leaving protoss a bit neutered in the harass department. Terran now seems to be the race with the strong units, where everyone of their units feels very solid with a lot of staying power. Even marines, due to their DPS and quick production feel that way. Also attachment switching makes Terran tech transitions seamless, for example: Barracks Factory -> Techlab Starport -> swap to techlab Open up Banshee Reactor on Factory Once banshees are no longer effective, swap Starport and Factory again and go medivac, marine or marine viking, without even having to build another building. Somewhere in there you also get a techlab on racks for stim/shields, but im just using it as a quick example I'm still torn on what to play though. Kinda waiting on next patch to make final decision, till then I am dividing my time between both, but its like most of what drew me to play Protoss in SC1 is now in the hands of Terran. Then I see other top SC1 protoss like ITR playing terran and i am further  | ||
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Zrah
Lithuania55 Posts
On November 04 2010 08:45 velo wrote: Jumping in kinda late here but I think this is a really interesting topic and I like it how the word "balance" hasn't been thrown around too much. Personally I feel like Protoss is kind of under-explored in terms of strategy (pretty sure someone was saying this in a cast recently). + Show Spoiler + I was really disapointed to see NeXGenius out of GSL2 he was actually my pick to win it. Problem is everything except robo against all, stargate vs zerg has massive flaws and big opening for timing pushes, or just blind counters that just kill you right there. Robo for toss right now is as important as Lair for zerg with out it we're extremely vulnerable . Toss needs tech tree and unit prices reduced. Cutting stalker cost by 25/25 or 50/0 would have no effect on the cheese gate rushes but would enable us to have more meaty units to help tank for our colos or immortals. And they wouldn't be so useless vs marauders, roaches per cost. Immortals could have price reduced by 50/0 aswell, since they are very specialized unit which has multiple hardcounters. Zealot legs should make zealots immune to slows which would fix their biggest flaw that even leg zealots can't touch marauders, maybe add atack speed upgrade to it to make them actually dangerous. Since it is ridiculously expensive upgrade. Restore the old zealot shield back to 60 from 50. | ||
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Moragon
United States355 Posts
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
On November 04 2010 04:37 EriktheGuy wrote: Not really significant. Given complete balance, the chance of no toss in the final 4 is about 20%. So, since they were precluded twice in a row, that's a 1/25 chance. Which is greater than the 95% confidence that statistics and the sciences use. | ||
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toadstool
Australia421 Posts
On November 04 2010 08:00 Redmark wrote: And MVP doesn't exist? This is such a stupid argument anyway, Zergbong's in the semis and he never did anything in BW. You're making a whole bunch of assumptions with no real basis. That was a reply for a post I read about Protoss having no *real* SC legends or champions playing for them. If ITR or Clare kept playing Protoss in SC2, they wouldn't have gotten to ro4. | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
The protoss needs a buff, only very good players are able to take advantage of it. Zerg got their whole macro concept for instance, changing from drone to military production, creep spreading etc. Protoss need something like that perhaps? | ||
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Moragon
United States355 Posts
On November 04 2010 10:19 Cloak wrote: So, since they were precluded twice in a row, that's a 1/25 chance. Which is greater than the 95% confidence that statistics and the sciences use. Its worse than that, out of 10 games protoss has played in the round of 8 they have won 1 game. Once they hit the top tier of competition they dont stand a chance. | ||
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dragonblade369
Canada464 Posts
That was a reply for a post I read about Protoss having no *real* SC legends or champions playing for them. If ITR or Clare kept playing Protoss in SC2, they wouldn't have gotten to ro4. you know that clare is a B-teamer while Sang-Ho is an A-teamer right? Funny to see you call him an SC legend... | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On November 04 2010 04:37 EriktheGuy wrote: Not really significant. Given complete balance, the chance of no toss in the final 4 is about 20%. The chance of any one race missing from final 4 is around 60%. Most of the time, one race will be gone in the final 4. The chance of 1 or fewer toss in the final 8 is quite high at 20%, and the chance of any one race being down to only 1 or fewer in the top 8 is probably at least 50%. Again, it will be a common occurrence in future GSLs for a race to be down to 1 player by Ro8. And given that only 1 toss was present in the final 8, we can certainly see a 50% chance (given balance) that he would be eliminated in Ro4. So the observation, as a whole, is meaningless. The GSL results do not suggest that any imbalance, skill differential, or lack of representation of protoss players is occurring. toss was only in RO8 because it was forced (PvP in RO16) | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
Particularly they said they don't like the current balance state, early vs late game. And they also have issues with stim (stimmed marines are too strong) and Psi-storms. Now, about NEXGenious winning the Blizzcon: Blizzard has been showing that Protoss are doing good against terran in EU and NA servers at panel discussion. But on higher level - in Korean server (and I think there is no doubt that currently koreans are better than others) Terrans are actually significantly better than Protoss. That explains why NexGenious, HuK, Kiwikaki, Ra are doing ok in USA tournaments. Where the skill level is lower than Korea and GSL, meaning terrans are not good enough. That also explains why HuK and other EU/NA protoss don't complain much whereas Tester/FruitDealer say that protoss is UP. There is not only early vs late game problem with balance. TvP balance also depends on level of players. | ||
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TeamSoliduss
41 Posts
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TungVu
Vietnam25 Posts
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