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noD
2230 Posts
Protoss is way to easy in "lower" levels and lower levels seems something like 1xxx or 2xxx diamond .... And saying the game is imbalanced because of tourneys won by protoss is the same as telling bw isnt balanced too (which we all know is ... ) I still think they should forget bw's P and do a complete reboot of the race, adding more mechanics and not 4gates/2gates/1g1s/1g dark shrine allinish .... | ||
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
My friend also brings up a good point. Whenever you attack with 'toss it's almost always ALL-IN! Tell me a strategy that isn't all-in and that is not a strat that wins for toss. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
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slam
United States923 Posts
On November 02 2010 10:19 Silidons wrote: My friend also brings up a good point. Whenever you attack with 'toss it's almost always ALL-IN! Tell me a strategy that isn't all-in and that is not a strat that wins for toss. Pressuring a zerg, attacking while expanding, blinking into main then blinking out. Denying an expansion... the list goes on. I'm sorry but what your friend is saying is just wrong. | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
On November 02 2010 10:13 Armsved wrote: But you can say that about all races, you have VRs, DTs, 4gate, 3gate robo etc. which also acts as a limitation for zerg and terran builds. But this is not necessarily true. What is it, 4 marines can beat 1 Void ray? 2 Queens can beat 1 Void Ray (gets even harder for void rays when there are more queens and the zerg is smart enough to transfuse). Terran should have marines (heck t1 unit and only 50 minerals) and zerg will ALWAYS have queens. Dark templars, you know how heavy of an investment that is. You realize if you did a little timing push with marines/marauders and if we don't get imba forcefields we will lose because we are spending all our resources on DTs. Also if we go templar tech we don't have a robo bay (which is what this thread is all about) and hence we'll get pushed over by banshees, roaches/ling, or MM. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On November 02 2010 10:23 slam wrote: Pressuring a zerg, attacking while expanding, blinking into main then blinking out. Denying an expansion... the list goes on. I'm sorry but what your friend is saying is just wrong. That isn't a build or strategy. | ||
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slam
United States923 Posts
2 gate robo. There you go. :\ Edit: And actually all of the above were strategies. :\ and You didn't even ask for builds: "Tell me a strategy that isn't all-in and that is not a strat that wins for toss." | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
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slam
United States923 Posts
On November 02 2010 10:56 Dommk wrote: 2 Gate robo is an awful build if you aren't going for an all-in vs Zerg... Why? Edit: And I never said vs Zerg so I don't know why you are trying to argue with me about that, but I still have to ask what is bad about 2 gate robo vs Zerg anyways unless you are going for an all in. | ||
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zerious
Canada3803 Posts
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Vz0
Canada378 Posts
On November 02 2010 08:12 Dommk wrote: I hate this type of cynicism, but I also hate how true what you said is -___- well then you should switch too.. im now focusing on zerg for a while and taking a break from the Toss stress. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
Because you concede all map control. You opted for a robo instead of fast expand, so economically you are behind, but you are no better off than a Protoss who has Fast expanded, in fact you are actually in a worse position. The only thing you can build to aid you is immortals, which against Zerg is quite fine if they mass roaches, but if they have speedlings instead then immortals are worthless. The timing of the robo means you get it before any roaches hatch, so you are doing it blind. Your army is largely immobile, and if Zerg gets muta you have just lost the game because you are now left with useless tech, this is under the assumption that you aren't going for an all in. Right now, for PvZ any variant of a FE is pretty much the go to build, anything else is usually awful unless they are all-ins or DT's. well then you should switch too.. im now focusing on zerg for a while and taking a break from the Toss stress. although I do think Toss aren't in that best of states right now, but I don't they they are bad enough to warrant switching races. Luckily for me, I'm not good enough to vs people of the caliber of IdrA/Slush/HopeTorcher/SelecT etc.. | ||
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Vasili
Australia125 Posts
But i dont think you can say 'unlucky bracket' as a reason: if protoss had better brackets and made it further into the gsl they would be matched eventually with the players that would make them think its an unlucky bracket. | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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slam
United States923 Posts
On November 02 2010 11:07 Dommk wrote: Because you concede all map control. You opted for a robo instead of fast expand, so economically you are behind, but you are no better off than a Protoss who has Fast expanded, in fact you are actually in a worse position. The only thing you can build to aid you is immortals, which against Zerg is quite fine if they mass roaches, but if they have speedlings instead then immortals are worthless. The timing of the robo means you get it before any roaches hatch, so you are doing it blind. Your army is largely immobile, and if Zerg gets muta you have just lost the game because you are now left with useless tech, this is under the assumption that you aren't going for an all in. Right now, for PvZ any variant of a FE is pretty much the go to build, anything else is usually awful unless they are all-ins or DT's. LOL. Immortals are not the only unit you can build out of Robo facility. Observers? Colossus? Currently in the metagame roaches are EXTREMELY popular so I don't know why getting a robo blind is such a problem. As it gives you great scouting capabilities and the option to get immortals if they are going roaches. If Zerg gets muta you have not lost the game. That is a terrible assumption and you do not have useless tech because observer work very well for responding to muta harass. Many of the maps do not allow for very safe FEs. | ||
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dragonblade369
Canada464 Posts
the only decent toss in the GSL was Genius This is like saying that the only good zerg player last season is FruitDealer. After one season, Protoss suddenly need to l2p and a lot of zerg suddenly knows how to play! | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
Although give credit to guys like babybyebye and songho, whom showed good progress, and I'm sure will suceed in GSL3 | ||
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slam
United States923 Posts
On November 02 2010 11:27 1Eris1 wrote: best toss in the world not qualifying and the no.2 and no.3 having to play eachother in the ro.16 can do that to you. Although give credit to guys like babybyebye and songho, whom showed good progress, and I'm sure will suceed in GSL3 Isn't babybyebye and Songho (Sang-Ho?) the same person? Or is it a different Songho? | ||
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dekuschrub
United States2069 Posts
some macro tosses will emerge soon and i will seem like they are overpowered as fuck. good tosses like sangho/tester just dont know how to survive all the early game shit well enough yet  | ||
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