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One thing that I've noticed is the differences in how the races are able to micro a "standard composition" army. This is just one factor out of many, obviously. Grossly simplified comparison:
Terran - A bio army is entirely ranged units (or with medivacs overhead). Entire army can be boxed, stimmed, and stutter-stepped relatively easily. A bio army with Korean-level micro is exponentially better than the same army without micro. Case in point, Foxer's marine play against Kyrix today.
Tank play adds another dimension of strategy and micro requirements, but the fact is Terran never has to deal with trying to get a melee unit up to its target in order to deal damage. Thus, all units are basically guaranteed to deal some damage (whereas some zealots and lings never will).
That being said, Thors are kind of unwieldy 
Protoss - Ground army almost always has a combination of melee units (zealots) and ranged units (stalkers, sentries, immortals). It's incredibly challenging to maximize the efficiency of these armies, and units will easily get "stuck" behind other ones.
The focus needed to control zealots, ranged units, and colossi separately is focus that can't be used elsewhere (macro, target-firing). Immortals particularly are a pain to use, because they're slower and have a shorter range than the units you generally want them to be in front of. It's not an issue of possibility, but one of efficiency/convenience.
The attack start-up/recovery time of stalkers is longer than that of marines/marauders, so stutter-step micro doesn't have as much of a payoff. But it's comparable to roaches.
Forcefields are a necessity in all non-mirror match-ups, and again this takes focus. Misplaced FFs can reduce the army's effectiveness instead of helping it. They're a bit of a wild-card no matter how good you are.
Overall, I'm not sure that Protoss unit micro has been perfected to the point where good micro helps as much as it does for Terran. NEXGenius had some great voidray micro against HopeTorture today and dominated him in Game 1, so perhaps we'll see another level of improvement/invention by GSL 3.
I think HuK has said that the Protoss race is fine overall, but it's more challenging than other races to get the most out of your units. This will get better with time, obviously.
Zerg - Personally, I haven't noticed much "awe-inspiring" micro by Zerg players either, but they can compensate by other means (awesome unit speed on creep, ability to quickly replenish army in mid-late game, map control and multi-pronged attacks with mutas and/or speedlings + banelings).
Micro requirements differ greatly between builds. Ling/bane pressure styles (ala Kyrix) don't call for the same control flourish that mutas, infestors, ultras, or roaches do.
I dunno though, it's such a complex issue. You really can't take any one factor in isolation. Lots of good points in this thread 
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On November 02 2010 09:01 Sl4ktarN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 08:58 slam wrote:On November 02 2010 08:53 Zhou wrote: Warp prism is something I'd like to see (I believe Day[9] should capitalize this on a Funday Monday or something to make it more common)
LOL. I don't think that Funday Monday plays a very large part in shifting the metagame sadly. Yeah it is, for instance the No Queen-day was actaully really helpful and has spawned a lot of 3hatch/2base-builds with lair before second queen.
That was the exception.
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P is indeed in a very bad place this patch. Took alot of time, thought, and expeirence to produce my feelings and thoughts about where P is at in the current state, Check it out All you P players, give your thoughts, without the constant rebuttle from T and Z players.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=165426
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I think Toss mobility issues stem more from the fact that the army benefits from unit composition than mass units. If all the Zealots get picked off then the rest of the group falls over to speedlings, if the sentries got picked off, then roaches/marauders just walk all over the Stalkers/Zealots, if Stalkers got sniped then marine/marauder/roach goes to town on Zealots and Sentries. Losing a third of a small group is pretty much the same as losing the entire group, the effectiveness plummets when one element is missing. Toss relies too much on having a good mix of units to do well, even in small numbers.
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On November 02 2010 09:02 FifthFret wrote:
Micro requirements differ greatly between builds. Ling/bane pressure styles (ala Kyrix) don't call for the same control flourish that mutas, infestors, ultras, or roaches do.
I agree with the statements in your thread except for this one.
Kyrix style especially involved a lot of control. While not the same control of making sure zealots are infront and marine/marauders are stutterstepping.
They require control of knowing when to engage, when to pull back, when to attack in a cerain place.
Im going to use Kwanro from SC1 as an example, he used to be known for being an extremely agressive zerg. He supplemented this style by having amazing ling control. This is how I felt when I watched Kyrix play.
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PvT is such a boring matchup to watch and play. Its very predictable because toss is pigeonholed into getting an observer relatively fast and then goes colossi because builds that try using sentries, immortals or HTs gets mauled by ghosts. Its sad too because sentry FF has so much potential against bio and immortals are a good unit when they actually get to utilize their ability.
Gateway units are just so, so, terrible. I feel like blizzard has balanced the game around protoss teching to tier 3 relatively quickly and that just does not cut it when people are using more macro oriented builds. Protoss cannot rely on gateway units to stay alive and they have to get observers before cloak can potentially be out because you cannot really scout starports. Expanding is risky business for protoss which further prohibits their ability to play at higher levels. You have to account for alot of all-ins and dropship harass that can take down a nexus in twenty seconds.
I'm no pro but those are my thoughts. I play protoss in diamond and sometimes i feel like TvP QQ is so unjustified because alot of terran players are not abusing what makes them so good in TvP in the first place. The fact that almost nobody makes ghosts or drops frequently at my level is pretty surprising considering how good it is.
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On November 02 2010 08:45 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 06:20 Beyonder wrote:On November 02 2010 06:18 Sqq wrote:
On the top of my head i can't think of many Protoss players that has me in awe with their fantastic play. Tester at times, Genius at times. Aside from those two, none of the european or american protoss players make my blood center to my pelvis area. There is little a protoss can do to create this awe.. Boring race  Exactly. When I see "Foxers" Marine splits vs Banelings I go: "WTF? OMG! COOL!" When I see a Zerg do a Baneling Overlord drop I think the same. When I see a Zerg setup a surround with lings I think "OMG!". If the ling surround is scouted the Zerg just pulls away the lings (because they are ultra fast). If a Protoss tries to setup a similiar surround with Zealots they will be caught trying to run away (when seen). Maybe remove Charge and get the old Zealot Legspeed back? Out of combat speed seems more worth compared to incombat speed. Protoss doesnt have any "high speed" unit (except Phoenix) like Marines / Lings which enables them to do "OMG WTF?" micro moments. Maybe Blink Stalkers ... but isnt that too easy? I can do Blink stalkers - I could never do the Marine splits / ling surrounds. Oh I loved the way Tester survived the cheese (2 gate, early marine push). Those were the moments where I went into fanboy mode  But "normal play" doesnt seem really "fanboyish" worthy.
I don't think that is the problem specifically, Protoss units have always relied on a sluggish ball of death even in Brood War, at least in PvZ. The problem is there just isn't enough happening in a PvX battle. Colossus micro consists of getting them into an advantageous position and making sure they stand still, and possibly moving them away when they're being targeted. I can admire the skill necessary to do this well, but that doesn't make it fun to watch. In BW storms would be going down everywhere, zealots were being cloned on tanks, Dragoons needed to be told to shoot mines and not vultures, sometimes there was a shuttle flying over the battlefield dropping zealots or reavers, etc. Additionally Protoss no longer generates anything near the suspense felt when an Arbiter was going in for a recall, or a scarab was finding it's way through a mineral line. Now we have blink and forcefield. It's cool when Tester uses the exact minimum amount of force field to split an army half instantly, but most P don't do that. They play it safe and overlap their forcefields because the price of a missed one is too big. Blink micro is cool, but blink stalkers are not standard, so you don't see it as much.
So yeah I agree on the dearth of awesome micro moments, disagree on it being due to a lack of Protoss mobility. If I had to point to one thing I'd say it's because of the lack of Templar tech at the moment.
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As mentioned before, it is mostly the top korean Toss that got knocked out before the RO64.
Also the cream of the cream sc players in korea are mostly Zerg and Terran, while the western scene top protoss players got a hard time to go to korea to enter the qualfications for the GSL.
It doesnt really help either that Inca had to face off against Nextgenius, who is currently in monsterform.
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On November 02 2010 09:06 slam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 09:01 Sl4ktarN wrote:On November 02 2010 08:58 slam wrote:On November 02 2010 08:53 Zhou wrote: Warp prism is something I'd like to see (I believe Day[9] should capitalize this on a Funday Monday or something to make it more common)
LOL. I don't think that Funday Monday plays a very large part in shifting the metagame sadly. Yeah it is, for instance the No Queen-day was actaully really helpful and has spawned a lot of 3hatch/2base-builds with lair before second queen. That was the exception.
The 4v4 metagame has been irreversibly changed by the call your unit Funday (not that it's really important). I think that the only reason the 1v1 metagame hasn't been changed much is because he hasn't proposed enough viable stuff for it yet. Carrier rushes and no-useful-units builds are both pretty bad.
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There has to be a way to make protoss a little bit stronger early game against Terran without affecting PvZ much so that toss can make it into the late game with a bit more regularity.
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Consider the phrase:
The best strategy is the one the opponent can see coming and can't stop anyway.
Now consider that with regard to Terran, Protoss and Zerg.
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On November 02 2010 09:12 apmspam wrote:
most protoss skip making cannons early @ their main and @ their natural, that costs them more often than not. sure they are expensive, but they will save you when you get mid game pushed
Cannons are a very big investment because they are the only static defense that are actually static (spines and spores can be moved, bunkers can be salvaged).
They may save you against some mid game pushes, but any smart opponent will just expand and own you in the late game, or just find a way to go around said cannons via nydus worm or drops.
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On November 02 2010 07:23 NewteN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 06:53 toadstool wrote:
To the people saying that Protoss players aren't good enough, that's just blatantly wrong. Does it mean that better players just naturally pick Terran as their race?
The problem lies with the amount of skill required to play Protoss at the very top level, especially in the Korean scene where they practice particular builds just on this one map. For a Protoss to play at a top level takes a lot more skill and larger luck factor than for a Zerg or Terran. Your second paragraph argues against your first.
No it doesn't. Nexgenius, SKS, Sangho and IrOn may be as skilled as Terrans such as HopeTorture, MVP and nada and boxer but they don't get the same results.
If MVP, HopeTorture change to Protoss they'd be knocked out as well. It's because at the GSL level there is more room for mistakes you can make as Protoss.
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On November 02 2010 09:20 apmspam wrote:
protoss is winning 60% of their games against terran on north american server, i wouldnt say that they are underpowered
Read the damn title of the thread next time.
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On November 02 2010 09:07 Seide wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 09:02 FifthFret wrote:
Micro requirements differ greatly between builds. Ling/bane pressure styles (ala Kyrix) don't call for the same control flourish that mutas, infestors, ultras, or roaches do.
I agree with the statements in your thread except for this one. Kyrix style especially involved a lot of control. While not the same control of making sure zealots are infront and marine/marauders are stutterstepping. They require control of knowing when to engage, when to pull back, when to attack in a cerain place. Im going to use Kwanro from SC1 as an example, he used to be known for being an extremely agressive zerg. He supplemented this style by having amazing ling control. This is how I felt when I watched Kyrix play.
Yeah, good point. It's a very dynamic and demanding play-style that's a lot harder to pull off than it looks. If Tastosis would ever show the APM tab, maybe we'd have some idea of the speed required to pull off these manoeuvres 
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On November 02 2010 09:20 apmspam wrote:
protoss is winning 60% of their games against terran on north american server, i wouldnt say that they are underpowered
Thought it was 55% in NA...and 45% in korea...
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On November 02 2010 08:39 roliax wrote:
Speaking of allins, Protoss seems the most cheesiest / allinish race at the moment. Not necessarilly noobie type of allin play, but stuff like DT rush, proxy Void Ray rush, 4-gate with pylon in the back rush...things like this. They always have a follow up, but regardless if they don't do damage they're guaranteed to be behind.
You're right, the best builds for Protoss are cheese. So much so that zealot build time was increased to help versus 4gate, and void rays were nerfed to help against that.
They should really lower the cost of the robo bay, it's a must-build as soon as possible to not only get the observer out, but also to get out some units that can fight marauders, which destroy all toss gateway units effortlessly unless collosi are in the back.
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Protoss won blizzcon and huk just won that EG tournament.
Im going to call variance on this.
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EPT
