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Patching is a bad idea - Page 3

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TurboDreams
Profile Joined April 2009
United States427 Posts
September 20 2010 20:40 GMT
#41
Patches are necessary but overall its the mappool that has to be changed. Blizzard is known for making bad maps (look at the BW "ladder" maps). All the current maps favor Terran because the maps are real small and bases are easy to hold (Terran being the best race for defense). Zerg is really suffering since they need room to move around and bases that are not next to the opponent (1base zerg < 1base terran).
Music is the medicine of the mind || Kill a Zergling and a hundred more will take its place.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
September 20 2010 20:41 GMT
#42
i just hope they don't take the wow arena route, patching every couple of months and shifting the balance all over the place. rts games need stability.
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
NukeTheBunnys
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1004 Posts
September 20 2010 20:42 GMT
#43
I agree with the op. He is not saying never patch the game. But instead wait and do small patches infrequently. Seeing those "leaked" patch notes that had so many changes, and seeing some of the other predictions about non-announced changes made my head spin. Yes I do agree that the game needs a few things changed, notice how that says few and not lots. If they do any other changes other then what was announced in the blog post Im going to be pretty upset. Its gonna take over a month before we understand the changes that this upcoming patch is going to create, and its gonna take even more time for people to figure out how to use these changes to their advantage.

tl:dr patching is going to change a lot more things then just the surface changes, and we need time to figure out all the repercussions
When you play the game of drones you win or you die.
cocosoft
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden1068 Posts
September 20 2010 20:43 GMT
#44
Yes I completely agree that the game and the play-style need to evolve. But it is always nice to have a patch.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
tacrats
Profile Joined July 2010
476 Posts
September 20 2010 20:44 GMT
#45
On September 21 2010 05:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
i just hope they don't take the wow arena route, patching every couple of months and shifting the balance all over the place. rts games need stability.


i dont play WoW but i assume they did such things to keep players interested with more dynamic changes?

I hope for sc2 they just plan to find a good equilibrium point and leave it at that and only patch if necessary.
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
September 20 2010 20:44 GMT
#46
I agree that players come up with new ways to deal with things, but sometimes there needs to be balance change when its much easier for a player to do one thing, and its much harder for a player to defend it
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
September 20 2010 20:44 GMT
#47
On September 21 2010 05:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
i just hope they don't take the wow arena route, patching every couple of months and shifting the balance all over the place. rts games need stability.


As of right now, and the last half of beta, they have sadly been going that route, also the command and conquer route of patching. What I mean by that is, they take whatever is whined about the most for a short period of time, and assume/deduce that whatever that is must be imbalanced because "everyone" says it is, and they patch the game, making it an entirely new game every time.

It's the worst way to patch an RTS.
Sup
Bleb
Profile Joined August 2010
Croatia278 Posts
September 20 2010 20:45 GMT
#48
I have to disagree with OP
T has to many viable options in tvz... It's as simple as that
It's not just one opening zergs are having problems with
Kvz
Profile Joined March 2010
United States463 Posts
September 20 2010 20:45 GMT
#49
how many patches did it take to get bw to the point of savior vs bisu? as i recall 1.08 was the patch that fundamentally altered sc;bw as we all knew it
NrG.Kvz
Gudeldar
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1200 Posts
September 20 2010 20:46 GMT
#50
By this logic Blizzard should have just released SC2 with everything the same as it was in Alpha. It would be hilariously unbalanced (think movable cannons).
cuppatea
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1401 Posts
September 20 2010 20:47 GMT
#51
Not patching for a year would kill the game.
slam
Profile Joined May 2010
United States923 Posts
September 20 2010 20:47 GMT
#52
From a PvT perspective, imo Battlecruisers NEED to be patched.
I get it.
tacrats
Profile Joined July 2010
476 Posts
September 20 2010 20:47 GMT
#53
On September 21 2010 05:44 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2010 05:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
i just hope they don't take the wow arena route, patching every couple of months and shifting the balance all over the place. rts games need stability.


As of right now, and the last half of beta, they have sadly been going that route, also the command and conquer route of patching. What I mean by that is, they take whatever is whined about the most for a short period of time, and assume/deduce that whatever that is must be imbalanced because "everyone" says it is, and they patch the game, making it an entirely new game every time.

It's the worst way to patch an RTS.


i disagree.

beta patches dont count.

1.1 only has minor changes which are justified.
Ordained
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
September 20 2010 20:48 GMT
#54
Well, this has merit but in my opinion it is not 100% true. Sure games evolve over time and new tricks are being discovered still but alot of the "tricks" from broodwar were simply bugs in the game engine that were not able to be patched out.

When I first saw the magic box back in beta I was stunned that something like that was in the game. I was scared to even use it because I know Blizzard has the tools to take something like that out now. (Glad they kept that in by the way.) There are a few tricks like this but they are few and far between. Look at Voidray "Fazing" that was patched so quick your head actually spun a bit. Which can hinder creativity, (granted fazing made voidrays godmode but still.)

But some changes need to be made. This game will never be balanced fully if you keep waiting for some miracle player to find a miracle glitch and never patch what is actually imbalanced.

You bring up the reaper opening as an example. Sure Zergs are getting good at stopping it but it give the Terran WAY too much of an advantage. They can expand easilly because the reaper is ridiculously cheap and they can tech swap into the reaper's counter faster than anyone can scout. With mules they can afford to cut workers and can rebuild an army just as fast as Zerg or Protoss thanks to add-on swapping.

The reaper opening is so much more than "oh dang they counter zerglings" it gives the Terran a free expansion while denying the Zerg by building barracks that you will build anyway.
"You are not trying to win, you are trying to be awesome" -Day[9]
in7e.sCream
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany48 Posts
September 20 2010 20:48 GMT
#55
i really hope there are more changes then the 3-5 posted in the SR1 seriously.
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
September 20 2010 20:51 GMT
#56
I actually enjoyed reading the OP, but to be honest, there isn't alot of openings in sc2 since its so fast paces and openings like 4 warpgate \ 5rax builds ruins alot of creativity. Zerg has to go certain units to hold it off. If you try and rush for other units to "create" an original opening you'll get mauled by these derpaderp 1 base plays.
Dead girls don't say no.
Motiva
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1774 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 20:52:47
September 20 2010 20:52 GMT
#57
Your comparing the evolution that occurred after several years and several patches to convey that a 2month old game with 0 patches needs 0 patches? I'm not sure I follow?

I mean sure, the WoW Arena or GW methods aren't ideal for RTS, but that seems to be a different argument to me.
Exyia
Profile Joined July 2010
United States17 Posts
September 20 2010 20:52 GMT
#58
I agree with the OP, but I think you're misinterpreting the patch notes

These aren't gamebreaking, and their reasonings behind each change in the situation report sound extremely reasonable to me.

For instance, they said they're finding reapers a bit too effective, especially early-game. So they're increasing the build time. They are NOT breaking the unit. The reaper is still the same unit.

I won't go into too much detail, but I don't think blizzard is overdoing it with this patch. The reaper is still the same unit, the bunker rush is now easier to deal with, but is STILL the same building. Tanks are the only unit getting a major change, but it's definitely for the better to define their role as a supportive armored-unit counter. I can see what you're afraid of, but I'm not afraid of it THIS patch
dreamend
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 20:55:41
September 20 2010 20:53 GMT
#59
Yeah you're right, Blizzard's changes are really subtle and clever and I like them - I'm more focusing more on the proposed balance changes you read/hear all the time and why I dislike them

On September 21 2010 05:52 Motiva wrote:
Your comparing the evolution that occurred after several years and several patches to convey that a 2month old game with 0 patches needs 0 patches? I'm not sure I follow?

then read it again, please
Gigaudas
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Sweden1213 Posts
September 20 2010 20:54 GMT
#60
On September 21 2010 05:48 in7e.sCream wrote:
i really hope there are more changes then the 3-5 posted in the SR1 seriously.


This. The game is not balanced and I think that patching a lot now will be good for SC2 in the long run.

Some patches will fail but it can be reversed with the next patch. Besides, we won't have stability until a while after the last expansion so might as well patch away now
I
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