EPTSimple idea for nerfing the mule... - Page 3
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Sentient
United States437 Posts
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cHaNg-sTa
United States1058 Posts
On September 12 2010 16:09 Apexplayer wrote: Yay nerf terran hate. Im sorry our 150 mineral macro mechanic doesnt fend off anti-air, let us avoid making production facilities all together, and spread crap all over the map to make our units imba fast. I bet you op is zerg, and not just looking at his icon Heaven forbid you make an observor or raven to get rid of the creep. | ||
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
Everything is somewhat equivalent except the Terran... quite odd. | ||
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eLiE
Canada1039 Posts
On September 12 2010 16:02 SlowBro wrote: A zerg can stockpile larva and build all of them instantly if their standing army dies. Very powerful at 200/200 supply. A terran production is limited to however many unit building structures he has (which cost resources) so if he loses his army he's in alot of trouble. If he ever misses his production building timings he can't suddenly get 2 units to make up for it. If zerg has such a "forgiving" feature then why can't terran have one? alright, forgiving is the last word i would use for the spawn larvae mechanic. to effectively use spawn larvae, you need to be using it every 25ish seconds, not just going 5 eeeeee mineral patches, but going 6 v shiftclick minimap hatcheries, or going 6 v shift tab click tab click etc., or by going 6v click, 7v click, 8 vclick, etc. and if you miss spawn larvae say, in the middle of a battle, you cant just do it 5 times in a row to catch up, you have to do it once, wait 25 seconds, and do it again after waiting, so if you arent on top of it ALWAYS, you wont have any larvae for reinforcements. plus, once u use up that stockpile in a mad dash after your forces died before even engaging a mech ball, u have to wait at least a a minute or so to have a decent amount of larvae again. if a terran forgets, he can just shoot down like 10 mules and have a shmillion minerals in a minute. not forgiving at all. EDIT: On September 12 2010 16:22 cHaNg-sTa wrote: Heaven forbid you make an observor or raven to get rid of the creep. or use a scan instead of getting a mule. and really, the creep just makes some units less terribly slow, like the queen and the poor hydra. | ||
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GameTime
United States222 Posts
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Adonisto
Canada191 Posts
So one at the time or this: On September 12 2010 15:52 a176 wrote: How about 100 energy mule, 50 energy scan? | ||
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Cohedra
United States51 Posts
Also please stop comparing Mules, Chrono Boost, and Spawn Larvae as if they have to all be equal. Spawn Larvae is unforgiving early game, great, so are Mules and Chrono Boost as you are losing a lot if you don't use them. Late game you have the ability to make an extra Hatchery, heal your units, or use the extra mana to spawn more creep tumors. There are things wrong with all of the races, but between all the threads you'd think that every single unit terran can make needs to be changed. Edit: As a zerg player I actually think Chrono Boost is the best macro mechanic. Every time you expand you get another possible chrono boost, and while not as noticeable late-game it greatly increases the speed of upgrades and unit production. I think late-game chrono boosts are underutilized from high level protoss at the moment. | ||
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nemahsys
Canada457 Posts
On September 12 2010 16:30 Adonisto wrote: I agree with the OP, mule are way too effective IMO. Late game chrono boost is almost useless but mule is just as good even better. A Terran can keep up with the income against a Protoss with 20-25 less harvester in late game. So one at the time or this: how is late game chronoboost almost useless? ps. for the record I think this is a horrible idea. | ||
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x7i
United Kingdom122 Posts
On September 12 2010 16:25 TSL-Lore wrote: Actually this is really true. Its not like the excess energy from forgetting to MULE would be completely wasted because you can always drop supply or scanner sweep, just like how zerg can transfuse and tumor, and just like how Protoss can chrono boost buildings other than the nexus. Everything is somewhat equivalent except the Terran... quite odd. ay, mule is just a bad idea with bad implementation chrono and larva allows you to SPEND more money (ie. is economy dependant - increases production capacity), while mule gives you more money to spend (ie. is production capacity dependant - increases economy) simple idea to fix mule is to have it removed | ||
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Sealteam
Australia296 Posts
Current thought process: Want minerals but might need scan. Oh, didn't need scan. Mule at negligible expense for safety gained by saving scan. Future thought process: Mule is up, might need scan Actually has to make a difficult decision requiring foresight, scouting, and experience. Then: Didn't need scan. Damn I'm behind, guess I'll mule next time in that situation. Still has extra energy to scan in the future. Did need scan, used mule. Greedy, died. Like building too many drones or chronoboosting econ too much. See how phenomenally that increases the terran macro skill requirement with a simple change? Also requires more timing. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
Then you could drop them in someone's base for scouting. Obviously you could just scan, but a scan only sees its one area, and seeing mules used that way would just be cool. I'm not even a terran player either, I just think it would be neat, and wouldn't affect the balance in any real way. | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On September 12 2010 16:26 GameTime wrote: I don't think mules are overpowered, it's only like 270-300 minerals anyways. I think spawn larvae is a better macro mechanic anyways. That would be an Argument if OP were arguing for a nerfec MULE. He just wants to be mean to new Terran Players. Zerg wont get a superusefull "energydump" on their Queen simply because they can build more than one Queen. For balance reasons Macro has to scale with the amount of Mainbuildings -> taken Expansions. | ||
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VonLego
United States519 Posts
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GIGAR
Denmark88 Posts
This would still allow you to drop a ton at a gold field, assuming you had enough supply, and it should be pretty easy to give some good burst income if your entire army was just wiped out. Having a 1 MULE limit could work, too, though. | ||
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Toxiferous
United States388 Posts
i dont like it | ||
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bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
However, at the same time I like it because the comeback factor can be really annoying. Its really fucking annoying when you march through and stomp a Terran and he lifts off his CC or has another CC lifts off and decides to play hide the CC, and thinks he can come back because of mules. Or even when you kill their workers or if they go for some kind of all-in with scvs and recover any potential lost economy due to saved energy and mule call-downs... I guess being able to fully saturate new expos (esp. high yields) in the mid-late game can be pretty annoying too.. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
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pechkin
158 Posts
CC> 100 for scan radar> 150 for orbital SAT, because now terrans just get their orbital crap for free - mule worth 2x of orbital upgrades. Also nowadays terrans place expand on their main base and got their minerals back in about minute without even expanding, | ||
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[Agony]x90
United States853 Posts
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
On September 12 2010 16:26 GameTime wrote: I don't think mules are overpowered, it's only like 270-300 minerals anyways. I think spawn larvae is a better macro mechanic anyways. ONLY?? Terrans have surplous minerals, zergs have multiple spawnings(injection), protoss have fast production(boost)... but everyone knows cash is the most rewarding mechanic. zerg's full macro curve looks exponential, terrans is a hill, and protoss looks more linear (i think). terran has advantage early/mid game in macro imo.. so probably slight change would be cool. Probably make scans more costly? Make add-on selectable and able to be destroyed by air attacks. same with fortress | ||
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