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Simple idea for nerfing the mule... - Page 4

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Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
September 12 2010 07:46 GMT
#61
yep, get off yer freewinning butts terrans and employ a manly macro mechanic!
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Adonisto
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada191 Posts
September 12 2010 07:47 GMT
#62
On September 12 2010 16:33 nemahsys wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2010 16:30 Adonisto wrote:
I agree with the OP, mule are way too effective IMO. Late game chrono boost is almost useless but mule is just as good even better. A Terran can keep up with the income against a Protoss with 20-25 less harvester in late game.

So one at the time or this:
On September 12 2010 15:52 a176 wrote:
How about 100 energy mule, 50 energy scan?



how is late game chronoboost almost useless?

ps. for the record I think this is a horrible idea.


When you have more than 3 expo it's impossible to spend all the energy on something useful. You can always dumb it on your 10 warpgate but it's pretty useless... Terran on the other hand have a BIG advantage with mule throughout the game.
kickinhead
Profile Joined December 2008
Switzerland2069 Posts
September 12 2010 07:47 GMT
#63
I'm all for it!
https://soundcloud.com/thesamplethief
cAPS
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States153 Posts
September 12 2010 07:48 GMT
#64
One per orbital.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-12 07:53:14
September 12 2010 07:51 GMT
#65
Zerg got the hardest macro mechanic because their macro is the easiest :/.

If anything, toss is the one whos macro mechanic needs to be reworked. Terran have it about as hard with zerg after the building group nerf (where you have to group reactors and tech labs separately now)

I don't see any reasoning behind this besides "I don't like T so any nerf to them is always good".
Too Busy to Troll!
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
September 12 2010 07:53 GMT
#66
to be honest i quite like the idea of simply having a cooldown on the OC, no energy.

that way ur punished for missing a MULE, you can't just pop 4 down when u remember,
Endorsed
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands1221 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-12 07:55:34
September 12 2010 07:54 GMT
#67
DEFINITELY. I'm a T player myself and this would fix mules. Not only won't you be able to save up 8 mules and get like 10K in 1 min on gold patches. But it makes macro harder. I really like the idea.
terr13
Profile Joined April 2007
United States298 Posts
September 12 2010 07:59 GMT
#68
No, its too unforgiving to the T player, and a lot of times its a situational call. I feel it takes too much out of the game, and Mules aren't the main thing that need to be nerfed. Mules by themselves do not win games, and even though Mules give great burst resources, it does mine you out faster.
joi93
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden47 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-12 08:07:16
September 12 2010 08:04 GMT
#69
On September 12 2010 15:44 MegaVolt wrote:
Yes, it's a very good idea.
I'd even go further and limit the maximum CC energy to 75. That way the Terran can't save up a lot of energy and has to sacrifice a bit of economy to keep scans ready (which should help the mid- and lategame a lot).


Wow, that would destroy Terran scan against coloaked units so much.

If this is added to the game (What OP suggested) Protoss should aswell have a CD on Chrono Boost. In lategame i'm a bitt annoyed about warping in a bunch of units and then boost out another wave of them.
zZygote
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada898 Posts
September 12 2010 08:19 GMT
#70
On September 12 2010 17:04 joi93 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2010 15:44 MegaVolt wrote:
Yes, it's a very good idea.
I'd even go further and limit the maximum CC energy to 75. That way the Terran can't save up a lot of energy and has to sacrifice a bit of economy to keep scans ready (which should help the mid- and lategame a lot).


In lategame i'm a bitt annoyed about warping in a bunch of units and then boost out another wave of them.


You do realize that we can only chronoboost so many gateways, and if it is done how much energy do you have left to do a 2nd try?

Back on topic: I think that as it stands Terran has the highest yielding and most advantagous 1-base mechanic out of all the races. So yes, I highly agree that there should be a limiting factor to even it out even just a little so there is better equalization of 1-base play.
cHaNg-sTa
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1058 Posts
September 12 2010 08:21 GMT
#71
On September 12 2010 16:41 GIGAR wrote:
I would still prefer it if MULE's cost 4 supply.
This would still allow you to drop a ton at a gold field, assuming you had enough supply, and it should be pretty easy to give some good burst income if your entire army was just wiped out.

Having a 1 MULE limit could work, too, though.


I actually somewhat agree with this. I think MULES should cost 2 (4 is too much) while in play, and maybe upgrade to make them cost no supply later? So they don't impede on the 200 supply cap.
Jaedong <3 HOOK'EM HORNS!
Champi
Profile Joined March 2010
1422 Posts
September 12 2010 08:25 GMT
#72
i like the idea and it would be cool to test it and see what happens if it were implemented, but i have my doubts that it will improve balance
terranghost
Profile Joined May 2010
United States980 Posts
September 12 2010 08:26 GMT
#73
It may be the most forgiving mechanic but for the most part I try to go mech which is mainly limited by gas summoning mules everytime I get 50 energy isn't neccacery. I would much rather have scans. But then huge storm drop occurs that massacre my most saturated expo. If such a situation occured to a toss player they could divide all of their probes up evenly from other bases. Then continuously chrono boast more out of each base and get back up to speed relatively quickly. If zerg have larva already stockpiled they don't have to do anything just make drones. Even if they have no larva at the time spawn larva on a hatchery and you have 4-6 drones you can make relatively quickly. Obviously you cannot build units at the same time but that is another issue. The ability to call down multiple mules from a single orbital command is the terrans way of recovering from said harassment. KEep in mind if they summon a bunch of mules not only do they lose the ability to scan but the mules don't last forever.

Now I do agree the mule needs a change of some sort I think even two would be bad. But what if the mule brought back less of a return per trip but still gave the same overall return and still lasted the same amount of time. (This means it would have to mine faster)
"It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it." - Thomas Sowell
Sika_grr
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia4 Posts
September 12 2010 08:26 GMT
#74
Why so extreme? Mule harvests six time more minerals per trip than an SCV. This could be reduced to 5, a simple 17% nerf, much safer. Or would that make Terran underpowered early-game? Personally, I hate that mules allow terran to have a good economy after a failed rush.
Scoop
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland482 Posts
September 12 2010 08:27 GMT
#75
I think it would be better if mules didn't overlap the scv's. They would be like normal workers but mine extra minerals. This would even make sense as later on in the game you have full saturation and spend energy on scans anyway. It's ridiculous like we've seen that the terran has like 10 less workers (20v30) and still has higher income. Something has to be done.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
September 12 2010 08:28 GMT
#76
Punishing "forgetting" MULEs doesn't matter much at the top level, so this kind of nerf is mostly concerned with the average player. Moreover, it will reduce the complexity of OC energy decision making. Eg: now T can save energy with purpose for potential battle scans, and use MULE when he feels more secure, which makes his decisions about scanning more challenging actually.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
MythicalMage
Profile Joined May 2010
1360 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-12 08:34:07
September 12 2010 08:32 GMT
#77
So two things.

If you make it so the OC can only drop a mule at a time, you HAVE to make it so the Nexus can only chrono boost at one time, or has a CD or something. That's the way these things work. Hell, in Korea, Toss is considered the OP race. As for your comment about only being able to chrono boost once. . well, sure. But it still builds up. The only solution would be to make it have a SHORT cooldown. You don't want to punish Terran for something you're not punishing Toss for. The easy solution is to make queen injecting easier.

Secondly, I hate people saying "I don't think it's that bad" and then making ridiculous statements after not playing the race, and not knowing the game.

EDIT: The MULE isn't the problem. With the MULE the Terran can BARELY COME CLOSE to the Protoss and Zerg economies early game. That's right, CONSISTENTLY MULEing, the Terran is actually a little bit behind.

Sorry for caps, I'm tired but I had to get the point across.
Consummate
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia191 Posts
September 12 2010 08:43 GMT
#78
One idea I thought that would pretty good is giving a range on MULE drops.

This stops you from building an expansion, and immediately dropping 10 MULEs on it from your main/natural that are mined out.
lol
KillerPlague
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1386 Posts
September 12 2010 08:44 GMT
#79
how about just reduce the lifespan of the mule? =]
Side 1: Why no dominant players with 90% win ratio Side 2: Nerf Side 1
Phayze
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2029 Posts
September 12 2010 08:46 GMT
#80
I would actually agree with this. It would make the mechanic much more like the queen, punishing players for slipping up on their mules much like zerg gets punished with the larvae vomit. This would even out the mechanics I think.

I mean, if a terran cant use a mule every 50 energy, he can just scan and supply drop. Zerg if they dont produce larvae, lose the production, but can transfuse in specific situations or spread creep. Sounds even to me

(i assume you meant 1 mule per cc right?)
Proud member of the LGA-1366 Core-i7 4Ghz Club
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