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Hi guys
My mouse (a Razer Naga) can create macros with timed delays between mouseclicks/keystrokes. Is this considered cheating?
I'm not talking about whether or not you feel that such a mouse puts players at at advantage to others, and should therefore not be allowed, instead I am talking about whether or not using my mouse for macros (with timed delays between each event) is considered breaking in-game rules set down by Blizzard. For example, in World of Warcraft performing more than one in-game event per second is considered a breach of the Terms of Service and is therefore bannable. However, Starcraft seems not to have any global cooldowns or any mechanism to limit the speed at which events can take place.
Can anybody please let me know, preferably with a reliable source? If it's not considered cheating then I'm going to be posting a whole bunch of cool macros that i've designed whilst at my Summer job (It's data inputting, I get bored).
Cheers guys
P.S. if they are indeed "legal" does anyone know if there are any threads discussing macros? thanks 
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There was a thread in the SC2Armory about someone saying they got banned using a Macro Keyboard, I'm guessing the same would apply for this.
It is basically cheating since you're cutting the work in half while others are doing everything. These are made for things like WC3 or WoW but SC2 is different. I wouldn't suggest using them
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For example, in World of Warcraft performing more than one in-game event per second is considered a breach of the Terms of Service and is therefore bannable.
I laughed.
Don't use macros, in WoW or SC2.
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I am fairly certain I read somewhere that you are allowed to make 1:1 "macros", that is one button does one thing. So instead of pressing E for a probe I can click my mouse button for a probe. But I dont think 1:N is legal, that is where you do more than one thing with one click.
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an example of a macro i made work yesterday is for injecting larva with your all your queens in one click.
it takes just under 0.4 seconds to inject up to 7 hatcheries
this seems like cheating it's so good, but can you be banned for using it? need to know before i start using it online ;p
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In Blizzard terms of service for World of Warcraft at least you can make macros doing infinite ammount of stuff with one button, but each action had to correspond to one click. For example you could make a macro that makes you pick up, eat and digest a sandwich all in one button, but it had to be three seperate clicks for each action.
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On September 11 2010 08:14 MrPiccolo wrote:
an example of a macro i made work yesterday is for injecting larva with your all your queens in one click.
it takes just under 0.4 seconds to inject up to 7 hatcheries
this seems like cheating it's so good, but can you be banned for using it? need to know before i start using it online ;p
It's certainly a bannable offense, if that's what you're asking. Whether or not Blizzard is specifically looking for your exact hardware is up for debate. It's your risk to take. Warden (Blizzard's anti-hack) can snoop around your computer a bit, I'm sure.
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You can 100% get banned for using that macro and it is considered cheating.
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"in World of Warcraft performing more than one in-game event per second is considered a breach of the Terms of Service and is therefore bannable."
no? in PvP every spell i had that didn't start the global cooldown was macroed for maximum efficiency, i was never banned for this since everybody did it
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lolwow, i used tons of macroes in that game, go priest, follow main tank, make macro for healing, go eat dinner, i quit at 47 because a chimp can play that game.
Anyway, by the terms of agreement, using macroes is illegal
i had a macro in the beta, it pressed 1 and 2 as fast as possible, getting my APM to over 2000, when people watched my replays they got confused  but iwth teh delay in retail it's not really possible anymore
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On September 11 2010 08:14 MrPiccolo wrote:
an example of a macro i made work yesterday is for injecting larva with your all your queens in one click.
it takes just under 0.4 seconds to inject up to 7 hatcheries
this seems like cheating it's so good, but can you be banned for using it? need to know before i start using it online ;p
Yes this is cheating...
Is this not common sense? You're making the game easier for yourself by using certain equipment that lowers the needed APM in half or sometimes more. If you think about it for a minute you'll realize how cheap that is.
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On September 11 2010 08:16 lindn wrote:
"in World of Warcraft performing more than one in-game event per second is considered a breach of the Terms of Service and is therefore bannable."
no? in PvP every spell i had that didn't start the global cooldown was macroed for maximum efficiency, i was never banned for this since everybody did it
They changed it to be like Hynda said, you have to press the macro for each action/spell you wanted down. You could not just have a chain of 50 spells going off 1 press.
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as far as i know the only illegal thing is to use macros with more than one action in one button
(for example bind "S+Z" on one key for faster zergling macro)
but use single keys on other buttons is legal
(which is the case with razer naga 1-0 keys as long as you change nothing)
but i could be misstaken
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1 action per 1 click.
You cannot have a macro that will perform multiple actions for you. For example, clicking "P" should not automatically select your buildings and build a unit. That requires 2 clicks.
What is allowed is rebinding. That means you can set it so that "P" will let you build a specific unit. That is still 1 click. Or you can bind it so that "P" will select your Control Group 5. Also still 1 click.
Binds are not necessarily macros.
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i don't think you will find a solid source but i doubt that blizz cares about keyboard or mouse macros because too many people simply use them already and banning that many people is unjust. the purists like us at TL that hate all types of cheating that plagues our game and will obviously advise against the use of macros, but this community probably only accounts for a very little portion of SC2 players globally while the rest of the world has their logitech G or razer keyboards.
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On September 11 2010 08:23 Ohdamn wrote:
as far as i know the only illegal thing is to use macros with more than one action in one button
(for example bind "S+Z" on one key for faster zergling macro)
but use single keys on other buttons is legal
(which is the case with razer naga 1-0 keys as long as you change nothing)
but i could be misstaken
it should be more strict like this in Starcraft since it gains you more of an advantage than it does in WoW. Rebinds arn't macros, and if only one key is allowed to do one action then macros are banned.
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On September 11 2010 08:28 Terranist wrote:
i don't think you will find a solid source but i doubt that blizz cares about keyboard or mouse macros because too many people simply use them already and banning that many people is unjust. the purists like us at TL that hate all types of cheating that plagues our game and will obviously advise against the use of macros, but this community probably only accounts for a very little portion of SC2 players globally while the rest of the world has their logitech G or razer keyboards.
^I'm pretty sure Blizzard has already been banning people for keyboard macros; I don't see why mouse macros would be any different.
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If macros are illegal, then why does the Starcraft 2 Razer keyboard have macro recording capabilities?
http://www2.razerzone.com/sc2/marauder.php
EDIT: I would love it if Blizzard cleared up this stuff for Starcraft 2.
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Don't use macros. You'll be banned. Blizzard is taking a tough stance on this.
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On September 11 2010 08:11 Ullis wrote:
I am fairly certain I read somewhere that you are allowed to make 1:1 "macros", that is one button does one thing. So instead of pressing E for a probe I can click my mouse button for a probe. But I dont think 1:N is legal, that is where you do more than one thing with one click.
Yes.
One button one thing is allowed.
One button two things is not.
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On September 11 2010 08:32 cryu wrote:If macros are illegal, then why does the Starcraft 2 Razer keyboard have macro recording capabilities? http://www2.razerzone.com/sc2/marauder.phpEDIT: I would love it if Blizzard cleared up this stuff for Starcraft 2.
That's actually pretty funny now that you point that out 
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I still think people are getting a bit confused over this.
One >button< doing two things is allowed. But you have to >click< that button twice.
So you could set up a macro that selected X and built Y using just one button. But you would have to click that button twice for it to be a legal macro. Two clicks for two actions.
This is the way the rules were laid down in WoW and I'm pretty sure the same would apply for SC2.
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On September 11 2010 08:06 MrPiccolo wrote:Hi guys My mouse (a Razer Naga) can create macros with timed delays between mouseclicks/keystrokes. Is this considered cheating? I'm not talking about whether or not you feel that such a mouse puts players at at advantage to others, and should therefore not be allowed, instead I am talking about whether or not using my mouse for macros (with timed delays between each event) is considered breaking in-game rules set down by Blizzard. For example, in World of Warcraft performing more than one in-game event per second is considered a breach of the Terms of Service and is therefore bannable. However, Starcraft seems not to have any global cooldowns or any mechanism to limit the speed at which events can take place. Can anybody please let me know, preferably with a reliable source? If it's not considered cheating then I'm going to be posting a whole bunch of cool macros that i've designed whilst at my Summer job (It's data inputting, I get bored). Cheers guys P.S. if they are indeed "legal" does anyone know if there are any threads discussing macros? thanks
But my friend, where is your honor ?
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cheating because you are using a "bot"
simple as that.
macros in wow are allowed, but not things that automate a portion of the game
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Removing macros period would be nice (that would mean getting rid of the SC2 product line...)
Might as well just build/program a damn bot and have that play your game...
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So a macro that makes pushing 1 act as double clicking 1 is illegal?
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On September 11 2010 08:32 cryu wrote:If macros are illegal, then why does the Starcraft 2 Razer keyboard have macro recording capabilities? http://www2.razerzone.com/sc2/marauder.phpEDIT: I would love it if Blizzard cleared up this stuff for Starcraft 2.
Wow branded products (e.g., the razer naga) also supported macros even though the "one click, one action" policy had long-since been in effect.
Macros are a "required" feature expected of every premium gaming peripheral out there, hence you see them in your gaming products. Exceptions exist of course, e.g., the steelseries 7g.
It's also reasonable to speculate that adding macro functionality to new peripherals has relatively low cost for a substantial gain (from a marketing perspective) since much of the work (designing the UI and infrastructure to program macros on the user side) has already been done.
On September 11 2010 09:18 dark88 wrote:
So a macro that makes pushing 1 act as double clicking 1 is illegal?
Yes since double clicking 1 amounts to two actions. Making a macro that presses ctrl-f8 is not illegal because pressing ctrl first does not generate an action.
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Now i am wondering myself, is it allowed to rebind keys to your mouse/keyboard?
havnt found a real way to change it ingame but got a program wich changes my mouse's button 4 to backspace wich increases inject a lot since you dont need to change your hand.
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On September 11 2010 09:32 Kambing wrote:Wow branded products (e.g., the razer naga) also supported macros even though the "one click, one action" policy had long-since been in effect. Macros are a "required" feature expected of every premium gaming peripheral out there, hence you see them in your gaming products. Exceptions exist of course, e.g., the steelseries 7g. It's also reasonable to speculate that adding macro functionality to new peripherals has relatively low cost for a substantial gain (from a marketing perspective) since much of the work (designing the UI and infrastructure to program macros on the user side) has already been done. Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 09:18 dark88 wrote:
So a macro that makes pushing 1 act as double clicking 1 is illegal? Yes since double clicking 1 amounts to two actions. Making a macro that presses ctrl-f8 is not illegal because pressing ctrl first does not generate an action.
<3 my macro-less 7G
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On September 11 2010 09:33 Assirra wrote:
Now i am wondering myself, is it allowed to rebind keys to your mouse/keyboard?
havnt found a real way to change it ingame but got a program wich changes my mouse's button 4 to backspace wich increases inject a lot since you dont need to change your hand.
Yes, that is fine. And god willing, blizzard will implement re-mappable hotkeys in the not-so-distant future (they have said this is on their to do list) so jump-to-base can go on ~ instead of backspace where it belongs.
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The general rule is:
If you press a button and more than 1 command is tied to it, it's a macro and is considered cheating.
Example:
If you map 1 mouse button to 1 keyboard key, i.e. right click = "S" and make 1 scv, it's not cheating.
If you map 1 mouse button to "A, A" to make 2 marines = cheating.
Basically 1 button = 1 action.
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On September 11 2010 08:14 MrPiccolo wrote:
an example of a macro i made work yesterday is for injecting larva with your all your queens in one click.
it takes just under 0.4 seconds to inject up to 7 hatcheries
this seems like cheating it's so good, but can you be banned for using it? need to know before i start using it online ;p
It almost seems like you're no longer playing the game at this point. What is the game if not a test of your multitasking? If you're just in it for padding stats, I think a maphack would be a better option, or better yet, a dischack.
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While I don't think there's any practical way for them to detect this over Battle.net (nor do I think they would care enough to put resources into doing so), but given the fact that it will very likely be illegal in most LAN settings or at very least, frowned upon, I'd just practice the game without any such macros to be safe. Besides, using macros also takes time to get accustomed to and I've found that macros on mouse buttons are often more of a hindrance since it has a tendency to mess with your accuracy when trying to do precision movements. I've found that if you are going to use macros, then keyboard macros just make a lot more sense for games like this. I never really got into the concept of the Naga, even for MMO's. It just feels weird to me.
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On September 11 2010 08:06 MrPiccolo wrote:Hi guys My mouse (a Razer Naga) can create macros with timed delays between mouseclicks/keystrokes. Is this considered cheating? I'm not talking about whether or not you feel that such a mouse puts players at at advantage to others, and should therefore not be allowed, instead I am talking about whether or not using my mouse for macros (with timed delays between each event) is considered breaking in-game rules set down by Blizzard. For example, in World of Warcraft performing more than one in-game event per second is considered a breach of the Terms of Service and is therefore bannable. However, Starcraft seems not to have any global cooldowns or any mechanism to limit the speed at which events can take place. Can anybody please let me know, preferably with a reliable source? If it's not considered cheating then I'm going to be posting a whole bunch of cool macros that i've designed whilst at my Summer job (It's data inputting, I get bored). Cheers guys P.S. if they are indeed "legal" does anyone know if there are any threads discussing macros? thanks
From what I understand, single key presses are "for sure" allowed.
Macros - I think it depends on how complex they are. If they are any sort of "automation" I beileve you can get banned, but I do not think that is true for simple macros.
Just a warning though - any actual macro of multiple keypresses "may" not be allowed.
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On September 11 2010 08:32 cryu wrote:If macros are illegal, then why does the Starcraft 2 Razer keyboard have macro recording capabilities? http://www2.razerzone.com/sc2/marauder.phpEDIT: I would love it if Blizzard cleared up this stuff for Starcraft 2.
People seem to bring up this argument up a lot but generally people don't buy a keyboard and only use it for one thing. aka. You will use the keyboard for other things than just starcraft 2.
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You are allowed to make macros, but anything that looks like a bot is illegal.
Anyone saying they got banned for using a macro keyboard or something are just lying idiots.
Blizzard doesn't have the means to automatically detect macros so I'm not sure how you could ever get caught even if you did make a 'illegal macro' for SC2 though.
And you'd never be allowed to use macros in a offline tournament, so might as well just learn to do it the proper way even if you have no intention of playing in a offline tour, but you never know :p
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It does seem strange that the Official Starcraft 2 equipment has these macro abilities if it is illegal.
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Beyond this be considered cheating, don't you think this gives you an unfair (not based on skill) advantage over those who don't have a macro mouse?
If I was using this I would feel like every win would be illegitimate anyways.
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I use the G19 keyboard, but I dont use macroes. I use one of the extra buttons to keybind 'backspace' since I am more comfortable with my hand at the left side of the keyboard. But do not think changing keybinds like that is in any way illegal.
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Regardless of if it is a bannable offense or not..
would you really use something so obviously unfair?
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On September 11 2010 08:14 MrPiccolo wrote:
an example of a macro i made work yesterday is for injecting larva with your all your queens in one click.
it takes just under 0.4 seconds to inject up to 7 hatcheries
this seems like cheating it's so good, but can you be banned for using it? need to know before i start using it online ;p
dude why are you asking? no shiet that is cheating. injecting 7 hatches in .4 seconds....ffs it takes more time to move to one hatch, click one queen, and inject one hatch.
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Not sure if I can delete my own post somehow.
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might aswell let an ai play
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On September 11 2010 17:49 Clampt wrote:
might aswell let an ai play
Would you really want Zim fighting for you?
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On September 11 2010 08:10 fantomex wrote:Show nested quote +For example, in World of Warcraft performing more than one in-game event per second is considered a breach of the Terms of Service and is therefore bannable. I laughed. Don't use macros, in WoW or SC2.
Macros in WoW are OK ... as long as they are in game macros.
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On September 11 2010 17:13 SovSov wrote:
Regardless of if it is a bannable offense or not..
would you really use something so obviously unfair?
It's not unfair, everyone can setup their controls as they please.
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On September 11 2010 08:32 cryu wrote:If macros are illegal, then why does the Starcraft 2 Razer keyboard have macro recording capabilities? http://www2.razerzone.com/sc2/marauder.phpEDIT: I would love it if Blizzard cleared up this stuff for Starcraft 2.
Do you unplug your keyboard when you stop playing SC2?
It should be fairly obvious; the feature exists for you to be used where it is permitted. Nowhere does it say that using macros is intended for SC2, just because it's an SC2-themed keyboard.
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On September 11 2010 08:06 MrPiccolo wrote:
in World of Warcraft performing more than one in-game event per second is considered a breach of the Terms of Service and is therefore bannable.
So, you are NOT allowed to have more than 60 apm in WoW? Guess they don't think that anyone who plays WoW would have more than 60 apm than... and if someone has more, he's cheating :D
But maybe an ingame-event isn't an action (but consists of multiple clicks).. otherwise thats really stupid.. considering that the highest apm peak they measured in SC1 was 800 :D (i believe it was Julyzerg during a showmatch)
@topic: Macros arent allowed, but i doubt that you'll get banned if you have a macro mouse or keybord. Just don't use it.
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On September 11 2010 18:22 Craton wrote:Do you unplug your keyboard when you stop playing SC2? It should be fairly obvious; the feature exists for you to be used where it is permitted. Nowhere does it say that using macros is intended for SC2, just because it's an SC2-themed keyboard.
That's a silly conclusion. OF COURSE macro's are legal in SC2, to consider it as illegal is just plain absurd.
I've tried to make a lot of macro's that give me an edge for StarCraft 2 but it's extremely hard to even make a macro that is actually useful in game. You're very limited when it comes to creating macro's that actually give you an advantage.
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On September 11 2010 18:28 AveiMil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 18:22 Craton wrote:On September 11 2010 08:32 cryu wrote:If macros are illegal, then why does the Starcraft 2 Razer keyboard have macro recording capabilities? http://www2.razerzone.com/sc2/marauder.phpEDIT: I would love it if Blizzard cleared up this stuff for Starcraft 2. Do you unplug your keyboard when you stop playing SC2? It should be fairly obvious; the feature exists for you to be used where it is permitted. Nowhere does it say that using macros is intended for SC2, just because it's an SC2-themed keyboard. That's a silly conclusion. OF COURSE macro's are legal in SC2, to consider it as illegal is just plain absurd. I've tried to make a lot of macro's that give me an edge for StarCraft 2 but it's extremely hard to even make a macro that is actually useful in game. You're very limited when it comes to creating macro's that actually give you an advantage.
I guess you missed this post, seems like a rather big advantage don't you think?
On September 11 2010 08:14 MrPiccolo wrote:
an example of a macro i made work yesterday is for injecting larva with your all your queens in one click.
it takes just under 0.4 seconds to inject up to 7 hatcheries
this seems like cheating it's so good, but can you be banned for using it? need to know before i start using it online ;p
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I can't even imagine how that would work as a macro.
If he's made some sort of script that searches the entire SC2 map for hatcheries using image recognition and selects the nearest queen and does inject larvae that's not what I consider a fucking key macro.
Provide examples of in-game use please. (I call bullshit on this one).
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Just to clarify, a game macro is a string of (game) actions put together. You cannot fucking inject larvae in 7 hatcheries spread out across the map in 0.4 seconds using a string of game actions.
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On September 11 2010 18:45 AveiMil wrote:
Just to clarify, a game macro is a string of (game) actions put together. You cannot fucking inject larvae in 7 hatcheries spread out across the map in 0.4 seconds using a string of game actions.
You put your mouse in the center of the screen, then hit the macro button which: selects your group of queens, then hits backspace+v+click 7 times. I don't play zerg or have macro capabilities but I'm pretty sure this is what he did.
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On September 11 2010 19:00 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +For example, in World of Warcraft performing more than one in-game event per second is considered a breach of the Terms of Service and is therefore bannable. Any serious PvP or PvE player can tell you that this is BS. As a restro druid I had to do about 150-200 APM in hardmode raids and this is not something out of the ordinary. Didn't play WoW for 1,5 years but I'm pretty sure it's still the same. As for your question, yes it is bannable as long as it's not 1:1 macro.
There is no apm in wow please stop this.
If it's not illegal it should be.It's definetly unfair.Also wow macros weren't unfair because everyone could make and use them.
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Well simply put Macros are forbidden.
I mean if you have a "1:1 Macro" that isn't a macro, it's a key bind :/
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On September 11 2010 18:52 huameng wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 18:45 AveiMil wrote:
Just to clarify, a game macro is a string of (game) actions put together. You cannot fucking inject larvae in 7 hatcheries spread out across the map in 0.4 seconds using a string of game actions. You put your mouse in the center of the screen, then hit the macro button which: selects your group of queens, then hits backspace+v+click 7 times. I don't play zerg or have macro capabilities but I'm pretty sure this is what he did.
Damn, that actually works, simply because of the backspace functionality that cycles through the hatcheries (which I've never used before).
But really doing the same thing manually was very fast as well.
Cute macro trick that will improve your game slightly but won't win you anything. I don't play Zerg and I would not mind a Zerg using this against me.
There's a limitation to using this macro though, you HAVE to have a queen at each hatchery as otherwise the Queens will start running between them and clearly that can't be good (unless they're really close).
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There is no apm in wow please stop this.
lol what? apm = actions per minute, apm is in every game.
You can't see it but you could create an addon to track it,
But in wow apm isnt important at all since most classes dont need more than 80-120. (more in HM endgame content but thats pretty obv)
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Normaly I don't try to judge people on what mouse/keyboard they use (lol TLO's IBM keyboard) BUT I would seriosely dump slap anyone irl that I knew had a razer naga... seriosely you pay insane high price for what ? is it really that hard to press the keys on the keyboard, also your mouse hand should have it focus elsewhere.
And while on the subject I belive that the Naga mouse is seriosely bad for your hand to hold on, it seems to be so uncomftable to hold on compared to so many other mice.
Also a word of advice, I wouldnt actively use the razer naga for sc2 play, it's protential for excessive macro(which clearly is ban reasons) would possible make it one of the only mice to be banned from tournaments when SC2 gets bigger.
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Russian Federation114 Posts
I always use macros to type my password, but I guess it is okay since I am not connected on Battle.net when typing it.
But it means that I can't do a "gl hf/have a nice game" macro and use it in game ? (I know am so lazy, I am so lazy I used macros to type this post)
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On September 11 2010 20:30 Hadraziel wrote:
I always use macros to type my password, but I guess it is okay since I am not connected on Battle.net when typing it.
But it means that I can't do a "gl hf/have a nice game" macro and use it in game ? (I know am so lazy, I am so lazy I used macros to type this post)
Don't be stupid, of course you can.
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On September 11 2010 20:29 Salvarias wrote:
Normaly I don't try to judge people on what mouse/keyboard they use (lol TLO's IBM keyboard) BUT I would seriosely dump slap anyone irl that I knew had a razer naga... seriosely you pay insane high price for what ? is it really that hard to press the keys on the keyboard, also your mouse hand should have it focus elsewhere.
And while on the subject I belive that the Naga mouse is seriosely bad for your hand to hold on, it seems to be so uncomftable to hold on compared to so many other mice.
Also a word of advice, I wouldnt actively use the razer naga for sc2 play, it's protential for excessive macro(which clearly is ban reasons) would possible make it one of the only mice to be banned from tournaments when SC2 gets bigger.
How can you say on the one hand "is it really that hard to press the keys" and in the same breath state "clearly is ban reasons."
I think these macros should not be allowed, however, if someone just wanted to play on the internet, not travel to events, I do not see how Blizzard could possibly detect this type of macro. Warden cannot possibly ban people that have a propreitary daemon for a keybaord running, can they?
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Macro is so easy in SC2, it just seems like a keyboard with Macros would slow you down lol.
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1) this is cheating.
2) Unless you do something inhuman like 20 clicks per second you wont get caught.
3) If it isn't banned by the modern anticheat system right now it will be sooner or later.
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the 500 other threads asking this, the answer is YES, you will get banned for it
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On September 11 2010 21:05 Darpinion wrote:
Macro is so easy in SC2, it just seems like a keyboard with Macros would slow you down lol.
You know, actually get a good macro is the hardest thing to do in Starcraft as a beginner.
Micro isn't that hard to have a decent lvl (I played WoW and Op too), but continuously macro is hard.
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United States22883 Posts
Yes, macros are legal on B.net. Honestly, what do you expect Blizzard to do to stop them? No, they're probably not fair for competition, and they won't be allowed if you go to any tournament.
Finally and most importantly of all, use search next time.
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EPT
