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On September 09 2010 23:01 Etherone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 11:59 DNT.Luxx wrote:Your name : Jalpesh Hacker Name : Phenomena.808 Replay : http://www.dtguilds.com/luxx/Phenomena.SC2ReplayDescription : Never scouted initially, but looks at my natural expansion before attacking. Notices scouting units, and moves units preemptively to kill them. Looks at my bases various times without sending unit commands. Obvious things to note : 3:50 - I sent a zergling to scout up his ramp, he noticed the zergling and moves his marine preemptively to attack it. 6:10 - Pans camera over my expansion. He had no knowledge of where my base was up to this point, but yet looked. 7:00 - I sent an overlord to scout his base from the west, he moves his marines north preemptively before he has vision of it. 10:40 - I sent an infestor to FG his idle army, he preemptively moves toward to attack. I completely agree that phenomena.808 is in fact map hacking there are several incriminating points throughout the replay, but none more so than at 3:50 when he looks at complete fog on his map which happened to be directly over a single enemy zergling. he then quickly adjusts his marine's positioning to better deal with the incoming lone zergling. edit: Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 22:36 spydR wrote:DNT.Lux wroteYour name : Jalpesh Hacker Name : Phenomena.808 Replay : http://www.dtguilds.com/luxx/Phenomena.SC2ReplayDescription : Never scouted initially, but looks at my natural expansion before attacking. Notices scouting units, and moves units preemptively to kill them. Looks at my bases various times without sending unit commands. Obvious things to note : 3:50 - I sent a zergling to scout up his ramp, he noticed the zergling and moves his marine preemptively to attack it. 6:10 - Pans camera over my expansion. He had no knowledge of where my base was up to this point, but yet looked. 7:00 - I sent an overlord to scout his base from the west, he moves his marines north preemptively before he has vision of it. 10:40 - I sent an infestor to FG his idle army, he preemptively moves toward to attack. Last edit: 2010-09-09 12:09:30 3:50 and 6:10 are totally negligible. 6:10 is negligible, but if you have the fp view on at more or less 3:55, when he pans to a random point on the map, and pause it, just click E to reveal full view, and you'll see that it is exactly over a zergling, and that he immediately reacts. edit 2: Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 18:27 KingPhilip wrote:Your name : KingPhilip Hacker Name : GearBox Replay : http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=147598Description : I am the protoss player KingPhilip playing against GearBox in a diamond league ladder match on Delta Quadrant. The problem that I faced was that he map hacked. He automatically sent his 7th scv to my natural and built a barracks in an attempt to marauder/bunker rush me. Although I could have handled the situation better, I was shocked that I was getting cheesed on a 4 player map so early and when he didn't scout me. I can go on and on about it, but I will let you peeps see for yourself the bs that I faced. I played this match around 1:25 am PST, Gear box is ranked 7 on his division "FELD KILO" with 25 wins and 14 loses with 595 points. Obvious things to note : GearBox map hacks He had no indication that I was at that area, but build a barracks at my natural constantly looked at my main base even though there was a fog of war. super obvious maphacker.
Added both of these to the OP, good work checking out the reps!
On September 10 2010 11:52 bumatlarge wrote:
Anyone else feel the urge to randomly look at my opponents base for no reason at all? It's like staring into the sun...
the only time i ever looked at my opponents base through the Fog is after ive scouted to confirm what tech path they went if i managed to see a robo or whatever.. though they could obviously cancel it thats about the only time ill look at their base, unless moving in for a drop or something
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Realm : North America
Your name : Kyruel
Hacker Name :HOB
Replay : http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/77309-1v1-zerg-lost-temple
Description :
performed a 6 pool on lost temple with him at the 9 and me at the 12. normally in zvz you send overlord from 9 to 6 but he went right for the 12 and sent his 6 zerglings right there as well without scouting. he also constantly looks through the fog of war at my base and he also looks at my expo soon as i put it up at 2:36 through fog of war.
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On September 11 2010 01:05 Kyruel wrote:Realm : North America Your name : Kyruel Hacker Name :HOB Replay : http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/77309-1v1-zerg-lost-templeDescription : performed a 6 pool on lost temple with him at the 9 and me at the 12. normally in zvz you send overlord from 9 to 6 but he went right for the 12 and sent his 6 zerglings right there as well without scouting. he also constantly looks through the fog of war at my base and he also looks at my expo soon as i put it up at 2:36 through fog of war.
Definite map hack given the FPV.
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using the correct format will get this replay looked at alot faster!
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This is such a good idea.
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On September 11 2010 01:42 ComusLoM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 01:05 Kyruel wrote:Realm : North America Your name : Kyruel Hacker Name :HOB Replay : http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/77309-1v1-zerg-lost-templeDescription : performed a 6 pool on lost temple with him at the 9 and me at the 12. normally in zvz you send overlord from 9 to 6 but he went right for the 12 and sent his 6 zerglings right there as well without scouting. he also constantly looks through the fog of war at my base and he also looks at my expo soon as i put it up at 2:36 through fog of war. Definite map hack given the FPV.
added this to the OP
im not sure which replays i missed.. 2-3 from page 3 i believe but im not sure
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Realm: North America
Your name: Vanick
Hacker Name: originalname
Replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=148290
Description:
originalname uses maphacking so blatantly we notice it while playing the game
Obvious things to note :
- Microing his reapers in response to our high-ground maneuvers
- Repeated, quite long, views of our base to see tech
- Watching our troop movements
- Moving marines to respond to an observer while it was still in shroud (debatable)
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United States12224 Posts
On September 12 2010 12:35 vanick wrote:Realm: North America Your name: Vanick Hacker Name: originalname Replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=148290Description:originalname uses maphacking so blatantly we notice it while playing the game Obvious things to note : - Microing his reapers in response to our high-ground maneuvers - Repeated, quite long, views of our base to see tech - Watching our troop movements - Moving marines to respond to an observer while it was still in shroud (debatable)
It was pretty hilarious actually. Super props to me being able to call him out on it in-game, and double hilarity points for him accusing us of being "god damn hackers".
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On September 12 2010 12:37 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 12:35 vanick wrote:Realm: North America Your name: Vanick Hacker Name: originalname Replay: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=148290Description:originalname uses maphacking so blatantly we notice it while playing the game Obvious things to note : - Microing his reapers in response to our high-ground maneuvers - Repeated, quite long, views of our base to see tech - Watching our troop movements - Moving marines to respond to an observer while it was still in shroud (debatable) It was pretty hilarious actually. Super props to me being able to call him out on it in-game, and double hilarity points for him accusing us of being "god damn hackers".
added to OP
also, could a mod please go through and mark off all the ones ive added? i know there isnt many pages but its tedious to look through every post to find ones i havent added
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Realm: North America
Your name: Vanick
Hacker Name: DTank
Replay:http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/79255-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis
Description: So 90% of this game is fine and dandy, i dont scout his scv that sneaks by, but everything is explainable. I even cancel my dt tech, but i do it too fast so he knows i do that.
But what is interesting is that awhile after i delete my scouted my dt tech, he starts building turrets, around the edge of his base. Without ever scouting my switch to VRs. I have thought this all out and even asked him, why was his reasoning. No answer.
Then a bit later in the game he spends 2 scans, for the first time at my natural, which again, is perfectly explainable. But his 3rd scan later in the game he scans my main, when im starting to get carriers. Again, i'm not sure at that point in the game why you would scan my main in such a mid-late scenario.
If anyone can explain his reasoning with rationality, ill shut my mouth. And most of the game he doesn't do anything suspicious, but just because its not blatent doesnt mean its not happening.
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On September 13 2010 09:47 zomgtossrush wrote:
Realm: North America
Your name: Vanick
Hacker Name: DTank
Replay:http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/79255-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis
Description: So 90% of this game is fine and dandy, i dont scout his scv that sneaks by, but everything is explainable. I even cancel my dt tech, but i do it too fast so he knows i do that.
But what is interesting is that awhile after i delete my scouted my dt tech, he starts building turrets, around the edge of his base. Without ever scouting my switch to VRs. I have thought this all out and even asked him, why was his reasoning. No answer.
Then a bit later in the game he spends 2 scans, for the first time at my natural, which again, is perfectly explainable. But his 3rd scan later in the game he scans my main, when im starting to get carriers. Again, i'm not sure at that point in the game why you would scan my main in such a mid-late scenario.
If anyone can explain his reasoning with rationality, ill shut my mouth. And most of the game he doesn't do anything suspicious, but just because its not blatent doesnt mean its not happening.
Rationality behind turrets, maybe he's just being safe and expecting a dt drop or something..or he saw something thats kinda ehh, but id probably go with expecting a dt drop or some kind of fake out
i thought scanning the opponents base was common practice late game? i mean its not like you just randomly quit making tech or something. especially with quite a few orbitals you can easily afford a few scans
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On September 13 2010 09:49 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 09:47 zomgtossrush wrote:
Realm: North America
Your name: Vanick
Hacker Name: DTank
Replay:http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/79255-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis
Description: So 90% of this game is fine and dandy, i dont scout his scv that sneaks by, but everything is explainable. I even cancel my dt tech, but i do it too fast so he knows i do that.
But what is interesting is that awhile after i delete my scouted my dt tech, he starts building turrets, around the edge of his base. Without ever scouting my switch to VRs. I have thought this all out and even asked him, why was his reasoning. No answer.
Then a bit later in the game he spends 2 scans, for the first time at my natural, which again, is perfectly explainable. But his 3rd scan later in the game he scans my main, when im starting to get carriers. Again, i'm not sure at that point in the game why you would scan my main in such a mid-late scenario.
If anyone can explain his reasoning with rationality, ill shut my mouth. And most of the game he doesn't do anything suspicious, but just because its not blatent doesnt mean its not happening. Rationality behind turrets, maybe he's just being safe and expecting a dt drop or something..or he saw something thats kinda ehh, but id probably go with expecting a dt drop or some kind of fake out i thought scanning the opponents base was common practice late game? i mean its not like you just randomly quit making tech or something. especially with quite a few orbitals you can easily afford a few scans
Exactly. Scanning when you're unsure of what your opponent is doing is perfectly normal and so is making turrets when you're expecting DTs.
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I do not think viewing the fog of war constitutes hacking.
The guy probably just forgot what he saw previously and needed to remind himself. I do that sometimes, too.
I do not think a fast, all-in strategy (say 4pool) on a map with multiple spawning point (say 4-players) constitutes hacking, either.
I have not done this on Starcraft before, but I have definitely done it for Warcraft 3 before. Here's why:
There was a period of time which I couldn't win against Night Elf (because I was noob). So, instead of playing a long, drawn-out game which will result in me losing anyways, I'd just do an all-in tower rush. If I guess the position of the Night Elf correctly, I'll have a good chance of winning (better than playing straight-up, anyways). If I guess wrong, I quit - there is no harm done.
Similarly, what *might* have happened there is that the guy is really bad at ZvT. So he thought, "heck, I can't win ZvT, so I will gamble by doing 4 pool even though I don't know where he is". He guessed right, you got owned, and now you are raging on this forum.
Alternatively, his girlfriend arrived as soon as the game began. He wanted to finish as quickly as possible, but did not want to just quit. So he 4pooled and guessed your position. He got lucky, and you got angry.
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On September 13 2010 09:49 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 09:47 zomgtossrush wrote:
Realm: North America
Your name: Vanick
Hacker Name: DTank
Replay:http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/79255-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis
Description: So 90% of this game is fine and dandy, i dont scout his scv that sneaks by, but everything is explainable. I even cancel my dt tech, but i do it too fast so he knows i do that.
But what is interesting is that awhile after i delete my scouted my dt tech, he starts building turrets, around the edge of his base. Without ever scouting my switch to VRs. I have thought this all out and even asked him, why was his reasoning. No answer.
Then a bit later in the game he spends 2 scans, for the first time at my natural, which again, is perfectly explainable. But his 3rd scan later in the game he scans my main, when im starting to get carriers. Again, i'm not sure at that point in the game why you would scan my main in such a mid-late scenario.
If anyone can explain his reasoning with rationality, ill shut my mouth. And most of the game he doesn't do anything suspicious, but just because its not blatent doesnt mean its not happening. Rationality behind turrets, maybe he's just being safe and expecting a dt drop or something..or he saw something thats kinda ehh, but id probably go with expecting a dt drop or some kind of fake out i thought scanning the opponents base was common practice late game? i mean its not like you just randomly quit making tech or something. especially with quite a few orbitals you can easily afford a few scans
Please don't even try to comment on strategy on this thread. This is infuriating me. Watch the replay or don't comment. He build 3 turrets WAY away from his main buildings, inbetween our bases(close pos meta). Any standard justification for trying to stop dt dropping wouldnt be to make 20 turrets around the edge of your base.
I am very close to the edge with ppl just commenting on this thread. In fact i don't even think players should be watching reps, only admins, since the level of most players are pretty low that have commented.
I am not trying to troll, but theorycrafting on this thread should almost lead to a temp ban. this isn't the place for strategy talk. Its a place to analyse replays to catch hackers, not to discuss potential timings.
His turrets came almost immediatly after my vrs were coming out. As in, if he were an actual good player, he would glance at the fog, and notcie, "o hey, he cancelled his dt tech, no way he can dt drop now."
But no, scrubby players are trying to theorycraft this guys defense.
Edi: Plus u don't need more than 1 turret to detect a dt, you need exactly 1-2 well placed ones, or 3 if you have a shitty base. Not 3 right next to each other, again please watching the damn replay before you comment.
User was warned for this post
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On September 13 2010 09:57 Fly[DCT] wrote:
I do not think viewing the fog of war constitutes hacking.
The guy probably just forgot what he saw previously and needed to remind himself. I do that sometimes, too.
I do not think a fast, all-in strategy (say 4pool) on a map with multiple spawning point (say 4-players) constitutes hacking, either.
I have not done this on Starcraft before, but I have definitely done it for Warcraft 3 before. Here's why:
There was a period of time which I couldn't win against Night Elf (because I was noob). So, instead of playing a long, drawn-out game which will result in me losing anyways, I'd just do an all-in tower rush. If I guess the position of the Night Elf correctly, I'll have a good chance of winning (better than playing straight-up, anyways). If I guess wrong, I quit - there is no harm done.
Similarly, what *might* have happened there is that the guy is really bad at ZvT. So he thought, "heck, I can't win ZvT, so I will gamble by doing 4 pool even though I don't know where he is". He guessed right, you got owned, and now you are raging on this forum.
Alternatively, his girlfriend arrived as soon as the game began. He wanted to finish as quickly as possible, but did not want to just quit. So he 4pooled and guessed your position. He got lucky, and you got angry.
sometimes viewing the fog of war may not mean hacking 100%, however some people do it to randomly stare at units they cant see(theres ALOT of reps in the thread about this) or look at their base without even scouting it, or something like that, randomly check their base later and make a correct counter to something they have no idea is coming
sure sometimes it can be just honestly reassurance of what you saw but sometimes its not, and when its not its ALOT more obvious
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On September 13 2010 10:11 zomgtossrush wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 09:49 arb wrote:On September 13 2010 09:47 zomgtossrush wrote:
Realm: North America
Your name: Vanick
Hacker Name: DTank
Replay:http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/79255-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis
Description: So 90% of this game is fine and dandy, i dont scout his scv that sneaks by, but everything is explainable. I even cancel my dt tech, but i do it too fast so he knows i do that.
But what is interesting is that awhile after i delete my scouted my dt tech, he starts building turrets, around the edge of his base. Without ever scouting my switch to VRs. I have thought this all out and even asked him, why was his reasoning. No answer.
Then a bit later in the game he spends 2 scans, for the first time at my natural, which again, is perfectly explainable. But his 3rd scan later in the game he scans my main, when im starting to get carriers. Again, i'm not sure at that point in the game why you would scan my main in such a mid-late scenario.
If anyone can explain his reasoning with rationality, ill shut my mouth. And most of the game he doesn't do anything suspicious, but just because its not blatent doesnt mean its not happening. Rationality behind turrets, maybe he's just being safe and expecting a dt drop or something..or he saw something thats kinda ehh, but id probably go with expecting a dt drop or some kind of fake out i thought scanning the opponents base was common practice late game? i mean its not like you just randomly quit making tech or something. especially with quite a few orbitals you can easily afford a few scans Please don't even try to comment on strategy on this thread. This is infuriating me. Watch the replay or don't comment. He build 3 turrets WAY away from his main buildings, inbetween our bases(close pos meta). Any standard justification for trying to stop dt dropping wouldnt be to make 20 turrets around the edge of your base. I am very close to the edge with ppl just commenting on this thread. In fact i don't even think players should be watching reps, only admins, since the level of most players are pretty low that have commented. I am not trying to troll, but theorycrafting on this thread should almost lead to a temp ban. this isn't the place for strategy talk. Its a place to analyse replays to catch hackers, not to discuss potential timings. His turrets came almost immediatly after my vrs were coming out. As in, if he were an actual good player, he would glance at the fog, and notcie, "o hey, he cancelled his dt tech, no way he can dt drop now." But no, scrubby players are trying to theorycraft this guys defense. Edi: Plus u don't need more than 1 turret to detect a dt, you need exactly 1-2 well placed ones, or 3 if you have a shitty base. Not 3 right next to each other, again please watching the damn replay before you comment.
Arb was referring to DT drops. As in shooting down warp prisms. Obviously he wasn't the best player, and he certainly didn't look through the fog to see the building cancel (does that even work?) so he would have had a definite reason to fear them. I don't think the attitude was necessary...
I watched the replay and I have to say your accusation is very flimsy. I went through the whole thing pausing and checking both his camera and the observers and not once did he look at your base or anything suspicious through the fog. Furthermore he made several blunders that should not have happened to even the most discreet map hacker, which I will point out below. I will try to address your accusations anyway though.
1. That he built turrets in a good position to blindly counter your void rays.
Once he scouted the Dark Shrine he built a turret at his choke (for detection.) He then built one right near his CC even though you had cancelled the shrine by this point, and then sent an SCV to build one in the smoke (I have seen numerous pros do this no matter what the situation so this is fine) He then started to Turret up the entire perimeter of his base by queuing up Turrets with SCVs (2 i think). This was before you even moved your voids around your base, and he did not once look at them through the fog. You could make an argument that he was watching them move on the minimap, but again, he built these initial turrets before you made any movements with them whatsoever. After you attacked, saw the turrets, and retreated, he proceeded to completely lock down that side of his base with turrets despite the fact that you were in the process of swinging around to the front of his base. After you attacked his barracks, and his response marines (which were out of position to defend harass), he emptied his bunkers and repelled your voids, then he finished turreting up his entire base. Again it needs to be said that he did not once look at your voids through the fog, and judging by his response to your harass, he wasn't looking at them on the minimap either.
2. Suspicious scans
He did scan your natural to find your army. He did this throughout the game which suggests it is part of his routine when playing. I think he only found significant troops on the first scan, and you hid your army multiple times and caught him off guard with flanks successfully at least once. The only reason they did not succeed was that his force of vikings was just to strong for protoss air at that point.
The scan on the main where he found your carriers looks mostly lucky to me. He scanned when you already had one carrier out. If he had scanned when you placed the fleet beacon you could argue that he saw the blip appear on the minimap and scanned to figure out what it was, but that is a flimsy argument, and shouldn't be considered proof for this thread unless that behavior can be demonstrated across multiple replays. Also, again, he did not look though the fog. As to why you would scan the main in such a situation? It was pretty common to randomly scan for carrier tech in lategame TvP in BW, but I don't play T in this game so I don't know what constitutes standard scanning practice. Perhaps he routinely gets beaten by sneaky tech switches? I fake phoenix scout terrans at random times solely for this reason. Either way it is not a sufficiently strong reason to label somebody a maphacker.
A few further things that point to him NOT having maphack on.
-He didn't find your third for a long time, even though he should have seen it on the minimap. He even saw probes maynarding that way in one of his scans and he still seemed to have missed it's existence.
-He tried blindly building a CC at his third despite the fact that you had a pylon and a stalker there. This led to a dead SCV and what looked like a failed cancel on the CC.
-He built his next batch of turrets (in response to your voids) completely out of position. They were on the border between your bases when he should have built them facing the center of the map as you had circled his base and were prepared to attack in that direction.
-He movied his marines out of position after chasing off another harass attempt and got punished for it when you were able to charge up on his barracks and kill off his response marines.
-He got flanked by a group of carriers/voids while his vikings were giving his tanks vision of the edge your base. If he had his vikings in position he would have shot down those units before they could even make a dent in his forces. He was babysitting his army the whole time so he must have legitimately been surprised by the flank.
-He scouted your position last even though it would have been perfectly legit to do it first as you were in close positions.
So my conclusion is that he was not map hacking. Either that or he is the most subtle cheater in the known universe. Hope that is a satisfactory analysis.
On a side not: This thread aspires to be a sort of blacklist of known ladder hackers right? If it is to avoid becoming a witch hunt people really need to provide extraordinary evidence, such as looking at troop movements through the fog, or straight up warping in immortals. Really though, looking through the fog or perfect troop movements coinciding with the dots on the minimap ought to be the minimum standard for map hack accusations.
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On September 13 2010 10:12 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 09:57 Fly[DCT] wrote:
I do not think viewing the fog of war constitutes hacking.
The guy probably just forgot what he saw previously and needed to remind himself. I do that sometimes, too.
I do not think a fast, all-in strategy (say 4pool) on a map with multiple spawning point (say 4-players) constitutes hacking, either.
I have not done this on Starcraft before, but I have definitely done it for Warcraft 3 before. Here's why:
There was a period of time which I couldn't win against Night Elf (because I was noob). So, instead of playing a long, drawn-out game which will result in me losing anyways, I'd just do an all-in tower rush. If I guess the position of the Night Elf correctly, I'll have a good chance of winning (better than playing straight-up, anyways). If I guess wrong, I quit - there is no harm done.
Similarly, what *might* have happened there is that the guy is really bad at ZvT. So he thought, "heck, I can't win ZvT, so I will gamble by doing 4 pool even though I don't know where he is". He guessed right, you got owned, and now you are raging on this forum.
Alternatively, his girlfriend arrived as soon as the game began. He wanted to finish as quickly as possible, but did not want to just quit. So he 4pooled and guessed your position. He got lucky, and you got angry. sometimes viewing the fog of war may not mean hacking 100%, however some people do it to randomly stare at units they cant see(theres ALOT of reps in the thread about this) or look at their base without even scouting it, or something like that, randomly check their base later and make a correct counter to something they have no idea is coming sure sometimes it can be just honestly reassurance of what you saw but sometimes its not, and when its not its ALOT more obvious
Even if he did not scout the area, it is still possible that he wants to view it. Perhaps he wanted to move a unit there (scouting), but changed his mind, or it was simply a mis-click on the minimap.
Thanks for reminding me of the "magically getting the correct counter" one. It's the worst argument of all. If I was playing someone who denied my scout, I would react by assuming my opponent did one of the tricky builds I know of. Since I would not have any information on which one, I would just guess - if I got lucky and guessed right I'd win then get branded as a cheater? No. I just got lucky.
Also, please remember that your opponent is not a Starcraft-God and he does not always play in the most efficient way.
- He might be a nub, and for some reason he wanted to look at how the choke work because he didn't know the map;
- He might be taught by a nub friend to ALWAYS BUILD TURRENTS IN ANY MATCH-UP;
- He might have lost to a cheese in a previous game which he did not build turrents; now he got scared and decided to build turrents regardless of his opponent's strategies;
- He might have ADHD
Anyways, I think a lot of the so-called hackers there may be innocent. I think only those that performed something that could not be done in normal gameplay (such as warping Immortals) should be on top of the page. Right now it's looking like a witch hunt.
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Pretty sure Jesus hacked. Motherfucker had wine outta no where and he even water walk...
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
