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Players vs Casters - Page 25

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keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
September 06 2010 20:24 GMT
#481
There isn't really any debate to be had. Tyler and IdrA laid it out perfectly.

People are just going to have to deal with replays.

In terms of sympathizing between someone who installed capture software and someone who wants to be a pro-SC2 player, It's pretty easy for me to make up my mind.


"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
Karliath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2214 Posts
September 06 2010 20:25 GMT
#482
Someone please rename this thread.
GenoZStriker
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2914 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 20:27:26
September 06 2010 20:26 GMT
#483
On September 07 2010 05:21 arb wrote:
Start casting the replays IMO, or just at the most allow a streamer/admin if needed, the casters can cast off the streamers stream, no reason for 14++ people(whatever ist he limit now) to be in one game making it unplayable.

I think SC2 is already passed casting replays. Right now starting over isn't goinf solve this but moving forward and finding solutions to our problems. Lag, minimize the number of streamers per game. Cheating, find a way to delay the stream. Stress, proper organizing. If all hope fails then do it classic style.
eSports Prodigy & Illuminati member.
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
September 06 2010 20:27 GMT
#484
Players needs > Any other persons petty wants in comparison.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 20:34:54
September 06 2010 20:29 GMT
#485
On September 07 2010 05:12 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Ugh this thread is the biggest repeat ever.

Person 1: "Hey just use replays"

Person 2: "Dude there is a problem with spoilers and players not sending in replays, plus you will get less viewers with replays than live"

Person 1: "Oh just add a delay"

Person 2: "That's alot of $ and really not feasible."

Person 1: "Oh, well than idk"

Person 3: "Just use replays..."

Until something new comes up in this thread I am withdrawing. There is issues on both sides and there is no right answer. Blizzard could make a fix for this but will not because it's blizzard and having 2 sweet ass computers just to run a stream is also not feasible.


Actually, it's more like 2 good people with decent computers and good connections if you don't expect somebody to have 2 good computers. And realistically, the person sending out the stream to ustream/livestream doesn't even need that good of a computer because it'd be capturing a video, not even sc2 itself which isn't taxing unless you have a really bad computer.

edit to addon:

X: needs the best computer since he's capturing the video in the highest quality from sc2 itself as well as recording. He also would need the best connection since the original file it'd be streaming to Y would be less compressed.

Y: Needs only a good enough computer/connection to upload and capture in quality that is to the caster's requirement (1000kbs for example). Since he's merely capturing a .avi (or whatever) to stream the taxation on videocard/mobo is a lot less since sc2 isn't even running.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
Serendipicus
Profile Joined August 2010
United States90 Posts
September 06 2010 20:30 GMT
#486
Ok, Blizzard will have to add an option for tourney players to not have win/loss results show on record in order to prevent Id checker spoilers.

Two designated admins, should be allowed in game to make sure all is good. (I don't know if all parties involved are equally monitored for shenanigans) PM's etc..

The fans will have to understand why some tourneys would be on delay or livecasted of the replay.

If it is a replay, the players will have to hold the results to themselves or face a penalty. (this should be discussed upon organizers) Replays should be sent in a timely fashion.

In order for anything thing to work, Blizzard will have to be contacted and convinced to add a tournament feature where records on said games will be held confidential.

Please everyone stay on topic,
Help with informative solutions to make this a more professional and fair experience for everyone.

Can I ask you a question?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
September 06 2010 20:31 GMT
#487
I'm curious how people feel about this, so I tried to make a as non-bias as possible poll.


Poll: Where do you stand on Replays vs Live?

I prefer replays because cheating and laggy games are big risks (36)
 
54%

I prefer live games because cheating and laggy games are not big risks (31)
 
46%

67 total votes

Your vote: Where do you stand on Replays vs Live?

(Vote): I prefer live games because cheating and laggy games are not big risks
(Vote): I prefer replays because cheating and laggy games are big risks



If this gets enough attention, I think it would be a good idea to edit this into your OP, HuK.
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 20:33:28
September 06 2010 20:32 GMT
#488
On September 07 2010 05:31 Mohdoo wrote:
*poll*


Not a great poll tbh. I think you need to rename it.

I agree with the players that the cheating and lag are big risks. I still prefer live streams.

The way it's written is confusing.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
clik
Profile Joined May 2010
United States319 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 20:33:34
September 06 2010 20:33 GMT
#489
Players have the right to boot anyone from the game imo unless they are affiliated with the event/league. There is nothing wrong with casting replays and it will get viewers as proven successful in the past. I guess I just don't have any sympathy for casters unless their name is Day9 haha. The only people I respect in this matter are the players and the persons computer/connection that streams the game.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
September 06 2010 20:36 GMT
#490
On September 07 2010 05:32 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2010 05:31 Mohdoo wrote:
*poll*


Not a great poll tbh. I think you need to rename it.

I agree with the players that the cheating and lag are big risks. I still prefer live streams.

The way it's written is confusing.


What is it about a game being live that makes you decide someone cheating in the tournament is worth it?
Me1234
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany219 Posts
September 06 2010 20:37 GMT
#491
I agree with huk

it should be mandatory for online tournaments to send the replay directly after every match/map to the tournament admins so they can send it to the casters or tournament admins should give out a "offical replay mailing list before the tournament".

if players do this after every match it won't delay the stream so much.
Uhm?
Blondinbengt
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden578 Posts
September 06 2010 20:38 GMT
#492
Personally, I would be very interested to see why so many people are so anti-replay and pro-live.
I mean, I haven't really seen any real argument for live --> replay, I've only seen comments along the lines of ''it has to be live'' or ''there's something special about watching it live'', can someone actually make a real argument for live ---> replay, that's not simply an arbitrary preference?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
September 06 2010 20:39 GMT
#493
On September 07 2010 05:37 Me1234 wrote:
I agree with huk

it should be mandatory for online tournaments to send the replay directly after every match/map to the tournament admins so they can send it to the casters or tournament admins should give out a "offical replay mailing list before the tournament".

if players do this after every match it won't delay the stream so much.


All that would need to happen would be for penalty points to be awarded to players who don't send replays. If players are punished for not sending in replays in a timely manner, there will be no problems.
RoarMan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada745 Posts
September 06 2010 20:39 GMT
#494
On September 07 2010 05:24 Comeh wrote:
I'm sorry, but can someone explain to me why there would be less viewers if they were casted replays then if it were live - assuming no spoilers, shortly after the games have been played, with equivalent casting.
If it were the industry standard ( that is, casters could only cast from replays), i don't see why people wouldn't watch the games.
I mean, last time i checked, HDH and KOTB were kind of successful.

This is what I thought too, I don't think it would effect it at all but a definite problem is spoilers, because you could just check the players custom games and check the out come.
All the pros got dat Ichie.
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 20:45:00
September 06 2010 20:41 GMT
#495
On September 07 2010 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2010 05:32 keV. wrote:
On September 07 2010 05:31 Mohdoo wrote:
*poll*


Not a great poll tbh. I think you need to rename it.

I agree with the players that the cheating and lag are big risks. I still prefer live streams.

The way it's written is confusing.


What is it about a game being live that makes you decide someone cheating in the tournament is worth it?


Uhh. I don't know that anyone is cheating? Live is more fun to watch and there is no chance of being spoiled. I'm pretty sure that the majority of viewers prefer live streams, even if they agree that they present a considerable risk.

I'm surprised that you need explanation. Don't take my comment personal.

see this:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 07 2010 05:43 Arkless wrote:
I never thought these words would come from my mouth( or fingers )

But I agree with Idra 100%. No amount of sponsors,recognition,prize money will be continued to be given if this game turns into 1 big stream cheat fest. Players>casters always when it comes to tourneys.
Obviously yes, I prefer the live streams, but I dont want to watch a livestream if it gives a BM player the advantage over the non BM player who doesnt have it running in the background.

I cant begin to tell u how many tourney games i've lost that were casted. Where my opponent has the perfect build order, set up his static D in the exact right spot at the exact right time etc, and then when i watch the replay he has not scouted me once, not even at the start. I mean hell, I was watching Ryan vs Suggy in zotac yesterday and Ryan was responding to questions on bnet chat, from questions gunrunner was saying on the stream. If thats not bm/cheating I dont know what is!


huk makes the perfect point. The two biggest tourneys so far were KOTB and HDH, which wer eboth purely off of replays. It's not important to sponsors if a replay is casted 2 minutes after the game is done. What is important that this game isn't known for BM ppl who have the stream in the background, because if it does become that you can kiss every sponsor goodbye.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
Jhax
Profile Joined July 2010
Ireland201 Posts
September 06 2010 20:42 GMT
#496
Well belive it or not the 900 euro that is on offer comes from advertisements and this money will only be given by advertisers if there is interest in the event, the stream helps to do this.
Fast and Free
Arkless
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1547 Posts
September 06 2010 20:43 GMT
#497
I never thought these words would come from my mouth( or fingers )

But I agree with Idra 100%. No amount of sponsors,recognition,prize money will be continued to be given if this game turns into 1 big stream cheat fest. Players>casters always when it comes to tourneys.
Obviously yes, I prefer the live streams, but I dont want to watch a livestream if it gives a BM player the advantage over the non BM player who doesnt have it running in the background.

I cant begin to tell u how many tourney games i've lost that were casted. Where my opponent has the perfect build order, set up his static D in the exact right spot at the exact right time etc, and then when i watch the replay he has not scouted me once, not even at the start. I mean hell, I was watching Ryan vs Suggy in zotac yesterday and Ryan was responding to questions on bnet chat, from questions gunrunner was saying on the stream. If thats not bm/cheating I dont know what is!


huk makes the perfect point. The two biggest tourneys so far were KOTB and HDH, which wer eboth purely off of replays. It's not important to sponsors if a replay is casted 2 minutes after the game is done. What is important that this game isn't known for BM ppl who have the stream in the background, because if it does become that you can kiss every sponsor goodbye.
http://www.mixcloud.com/Arkless/ http://www.soundcloud.com/Arkless
Jenslyn87
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark527 Posts
September 06 2010 20:43 GMT
#498
I really think the players should allow casters if they don't have a very good reason not to. It's just good for SC2 as a competitive platform to have lots of casters and it's very enjoyable to watch for us decent players who want to see cool tricks from the players we like to watch and look up to in the context of the game - such as yourself Huk! Not to suck up, but I get pretty excited when I see you play because as a protoss player, it's just a good opportunity to learn and see some exciting action, and I hope you recognize that people appreciate the cool games you and other pros have going on and actually take an active interest in them.

So to sum up: Please let your games get casted if you don't have a very good reason not to. It's good for you as a player to get exposure, and it's cool for us as viewers to see strong players in action
Hmmm, I wonder what terran is doiAAAAARGH BANSHEEEEES
GenoZStriker
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2914 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 20:47:27
September 06 2010 20:44 GMT
#499
^ they should also have te option to not allow it as well which is what the streamers in thread don't want. To give players the right to prevent them from casting their matches even if problems arise. Yeah but the stream can be either live or replays. The numbers are what counts right?
eSports Prodigy & Illuminati member.
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-06 20:46:53
September 06 2010 20:46 GMT
#500
someone should implement a poll...
I btw agree with HuK

edit: okay sorry =) there is the poll already
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