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I've personally never heard of this happening in any of the major eSports (SC, Quake, CS, Street Fighter, Wc3, CoD, etc).
I saw it happen 3 times in one day last weekend, though it wasn't the broadcasters. I can't remember now who it was but there was a ZvT on Scrap Station where someone PMed the Zerg player and told him the Terran had expanded. The Zerg player offered to regame but the Terran said he didn't care so they continued. The Zerg player lost pretty badly after that and a lot of people in the chat had the impression that it was at least partly because he was so thrown off by the PM he'd received because he gg'd rather abruptly in the following game. Then later at the Arizona LAN in one of Psyonic's matches, both players received PMs almost simultaneously from stream viewers. Pretty sure they re-gamed there. The third one was a custom match Trump played against Combat-Ex. Granted that was just a friendly custom between two players and I think the PMer was just joking but the same principle applies. Someone will always feel the need to be a jackass and the players shouldn't have to suffer for it.
It would be nice if you could depend on peoples' integrity but, sadly, you can't, especially on the interwebs.
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I pretty much agree with OP, for those reasons and because the sc2 community is so global it can be hell for players across the world to even find a time to play thats convenient for both. Take for instance Artosis waking up at 2am to play for IEM USA, we all saw the effect it had on his gameplay.
For that reason over at reddit the team league is definitely going to be done from replays, I know most people here dont care about that tournament but it was a no-brainer for us really.
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i never watched HDH1 or KotB, for the sole reason that it wasnt live. When i tuned into the HDH stream on like one of the first days, or maybe it was the showmatch vs Day9 and Tasteless, cant remember, maybe it was both, and i saw the streamer open the folder with the replays i was going,
no sorry i aint watching this shit if its a replay.
I do not know why i was like that, i guess the experience from it being live, fresh and no one has never seen the game before, ever, just adds to the epicness i guess
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On September 07 2010 00:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 00:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 06 2010 22:31 Slasher wrote:
As a member of the media, and someone who has watched all major sports since i was 5, and followed eSports for the past decade, it HAS TO BE LIVE. Competitive and sporting events only work when they are played live. When a match is over, it is over, and it is reported on that instant. The scores, highlights, pictures, videos, celebrations are all posted on the front page of any respectable media organization covering the event. There is no waiting and there never will be after the fact. That's fine because all the big LAN events can broadcast live. The issue here is broadcasting online events.Slightly delaying the stream (by ~90 mins) would make these events so so much better. The only problem here is people looking at players' matchlists and spoiling results. But they wouldn't be spoiled on the stream. So anyone who isn't F5'ing forums for an hour straight before a stream would be safe. Yeah, they have in the back of their head "this isn't perfectly live" but how is that worse than "these players could be cheating and the game is lagging" The problem is the bigger and bigger e-sports becomes the more and more this will become standard. It also takes a lot of the fun out of things like live discussion chats. Also it already happens, I knew you lost to IdrA 0-2 or 3 (cannot remember if it was bo3 or 5) in HDH because some asshole put it on the Ustream channel comments. All I had to do was load the Ustream channel and it was spoiled. I seriously paid about 2% attention to the rest of the match because of this. And to everyone suggesting that the casters just add a delay, it's not feasible unless the company has tens of thousands of dollars to work on this. I had a very long talk with the highest level of tech support Ustream has about this. They were able to show me several devices that added a lag, but all of them were about $900 for 30 or less seconds (which would not help anything). and we could not find a one that was over 30 seconds. Remember these networks (especially Livestream) pride themselves on having as little of a delay as possible, this is a unexpected development for them and they are unprepared.
i have a hard time believing only hardware solution is viable. a software solution is doable for sure we just need a good software engineer ;p unless you're telling me a sotware solution would cost 900$ :o
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On September 07 2010 00:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 00:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 00:47 Carl_Sagan wrote:
Bah, anyone who says there is a difference between watching a game live, and watching a replay livecast 10 minutes later with a banner blocking the replay tab, tell me why 15k people watched Day9's king of the beta finals. I could care less, and much prefer that option if players have problems with spectators.
Cause it was Day9. He could put on a $2k tournament between between bronze players on the Starcraft II release day and he could have got 15k ppl. So how about raising the standards on everything rather than lowering the standards on everything? Bad casters need to cast live, else they aren't able to generate any interest, which causes the tournaments to be bad (cheating, lag). But if streams would work on building audiences themselves rather than relying purely on "I'm lucky enough to be a spectator in this game" then the tournaments could be run properly and spectators would get a satisfying show anyway.
I do agree there is a influx of bad casters that are doing anything they can to sneak in a ESL game or w/e. I said it in the ESL thread, this free for all casting shit really needs to come to an end. 1 streamer per match. Why should there be 15 streams one event is beyond me. We keep just our caster and co caster in and have never had lag problems. But don't let people like BigT speak for all the casters. Not all of us are unethical as hell.
Replays are a better system but there is the problem of the decreased viewership and players never sending in replays. You can't go and DQ half of a tournament for not sending in replays, and players are very, very bad about sending replays in.
The spoiler issue may be one of the biggest, I've had a very established and well know gamer that plays on a very reputable NA Pro Gaming Team spoil the results of the only tournament we have ran off replays (cause of potential cheating issues) over and over and because he was a mod on that website ended up having to contact the website owner to get the spoilers edited out. The spoiler he did spoiled a whole half of a bracket and more importantly spoiled a whole half bracket for the caster. Think that might explain why I had a 35% lower view rate than any other part of the tournament??
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On September 07 2010 01:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Replays are a better system but there is the problem of the decreased viewership and players never sending in replays. You can't go and DQ half of a tournament for not sending in replays, and players are very, very bad about sending replays in.
Biggest problem with replay casting is the inevitable de-sync. Only way to avoid it would be to only have one caster cast the game (no more co caster, kind of annoying...). or have blizzard implement a way to watch replays online.
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On September 07 2010 01:06 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Replays are a better system but there is the problem of the decreased viewership and players never sending in replays. You can't go and DQ half of a tournament for not sending in replays, and players are very, very bad about sending replays in.
Biggest problem with replay casting is the inevitable de-sync. Only way to avoid it would be to only have one caster cast the game (no more co caster, kind of annoying...). or have blizzard implement a way to watch replays online.
Not having a co caster is just a bad idea.
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On September 07 2010 01:08 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:06 Nizaris wrote:On September 07 2010 01:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Replays are a better system but there is the problem of the decreased viewership and players never sending in replays. You can't go and DQ half of a tournament for not sending in replays, and players are very, very bad about sending replays in.
Biggest problem with replay casting is the inevitable de-sync. Only way to avoid it would be to only have one caster cast the game (no more co caster, kind of annoying...). or have blizzard implement a way to watch replays online. Not having a co caster is just a bad idea.
Lagging players out causing unplayable conditions is an even worse idea.
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On September 06 2010 09:40 HuK wrote:
Compromises/solutions:
-Consequences for people who post/spoil results in forum area as usual. (good job tl) Also maybe close chat in streams so people don't flood/spoil results if becomes that big of a problem.
-Players should be forced to send replays immediately to a specified email or upload so games are received first by designated streamers. (not doing so should results and punishment so to's and casters don't have to chase around players).
-1 Admin should attend the game and afterward send in replays to designated email address or upload
I think the 1 Admin policy would be excellent. Find someone who is reliable enough:
1) not to spoil results,
2) and will be punctual on submitting replays.
Even still, institute a 3-strike policy on lag, so if he can't have a reliable connection, there is a waiting list of reliable Admins to take his place.
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On September 07 2010 01:09 Fodder03 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:08 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 01:06 Nizaris wrote:On September 07 2010 01:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Replays are a better system but there is the problem of the decreased viewership and players never sending in replays. You can't go and DQ half of a tournament for not sending in replays, and players are very, very bad about sending replays in.
Biggest problem with replay casting is the inevitable de-sync. Only way to avoid it would be to only have one caster cast the game (no more co caster, kind of annoying...). or have blizzard implement a way to watch replays online. Not having a co caster is just a bad idea. Lagging players out causing unplayable conditions is an even worse idea.
I think your mistaking having multiple streamers with a co caster, or just making a general assumption. I know none of our co casters have ever caused lag issues.
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On September 07 2010 01:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 00:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 07 2010 00:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 00:47 Carl_Sagan wrote:
Bah, anyone who says there is a difference between watching a game live, and watching a replay livecast 10 minutes later with a banner blocking the replay tab, tell me why 15k people watched Day9's king of the beta finals. I could care less, and much prefer that option if players have problems with spectators.
Cause it was Day9. He could put on a $2k tournament between between bronze players on the Starcraft II release day and he could have got 15k ppl. So how about raising the standards on everything rather than lowering the standards on everything? Bad casters need to cast live, else they aren't able to generate any interest, which causes the tournaments to be bad (cheating, lag). But if streams would work on building audiences themselves rather than relying purely on "I'm lucky enough to be a spectator in this game" then the tournaments could be run properly and spectators would get a satisfying show anyway. I do agree there is a influx of bad casters that are doing anything they can to sneak in a ESL game or w/e. I said it in the ESL thread, this free for all casting shit really needs to come to an end. 1 streamer per match. Why should there be 15 streams one event is beyond me. We keep just our caster and co caster in and have never had lag problems. But don't let people like BigT speak for all the casters. Not all of us are unethical as hell. Replays are a better system but there is the problem of the decreased viewership and players never sending in replays. You can't go and DQ half of a tournament for not sending in replays, and players are very, very bad about sending replays in. The spoiler issue may be one of the biggest, I've had a very established and well know gamer that plays on a very reputable NA Pro Gaming Team spoil the results of the only tournament we have ran off replays (cause of potential cheating issues) over and over and because he was a mod on that website ended up having to contact the website owner to get the spoilers edited out. The spoiler he did spoiled a whole half of a bracket and more importantly spoiled a whole half bracket for the caster. Think that might explain why I had a 35% lower view rate than any other part of the tournament??
The only reason I can think of for having more than one stream in a game would be if you had an official stream and a local stream. Say ICCUP is the official stream, casting a MorroW match and there's a Swedish stream that also wants to cast it. I don't think it's unreasonable to let the Swedes stream their countryman. Even in that case though, there's no reason you couldn't put ICCUP in a different match in that situation (unless it's a final obviously), especially if you organized the streamers correctly from the start.
I disagree you can't DQ half the tournament, or at least that it shouldn't come to that if admins are willing to demonstrate that they're willing to hand out DQs to players who fail to comply. Players will continue to drag their feet as long as there are no consequences. I think, once players saw one or two people DQd for not promptly providing replays, they'd get over their reluctance.
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On September 06 2010 16:31 Therickz wrote:
People who say, Players should be allowed to say that caster or obs cant be in the game.
I'd say it should be completely up to the casters and the admins of the tournie, as its their money they put into it, if they want coverage of it, they should be able to cover the a match.
Its just bullshit to say that its up to the player, if they dont wanna get casted, cus it lags? dont play then, no one force you to play in it.
Go make a tournie yourself with your own money as prizes, and then suddenly, you are not allowed to watch the game, cus the player dont want to. its unfair to the host, and he wants coverage, he should be allowed that.
im just gonna quote what i said earlier in the thread cus i see people still not getting it
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United States22883 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:56 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 00:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 00:47 Carl_Sagan wrote:
Bah, anyone who says there is a difference between watching a game live, and watching a replay livecast 10 minutes later with a banner blocking the replay tab, tell me why 15k people watched Day9's king of the beta finals. I could care less, and much prefer that option if players have problems with spectators.
Cause it was Day9. He could put on a $2k tournament between between bronze players on the Starcraft II release day and he could have got 15k ppl. As an example, I was watching Raelcun's stream earlier despite them casting a poor game (and in some cases, no stream) while other matches were happening on other streams. Why? Because Raelcun + Josh were 10x more pleasing to my ears and brain.
Me too. I have no idea why I was watching Trump vs. Vibe instead of some of the other stuff going on, but I also skipped some Morrow/HuK matches because the casting was so poor. It's interesting that we have the discussion on exclusive casters because from my position as an avid fan, there's probably 3 daily casters total who deserve that privilege and two of them are on the same team. The rest of the casters detract from the game.
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On September 07 2010 01:12 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:09 Fodder03 wrote:On September 07 2010 01:08 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 01:06 Nizaris wrote:On September 07 2010 01:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Replays are a better system but there is the problem of the decreased viewership and players never sending in replays. You can't go and DQ half of a tournament for not sending in replays, and players are very, very bad about sending replays in.
Biggest problem with replay casting is the inevitable de-sync. Only way to avoid it would be to only have one caster cast the game (no more co caster, kind of annoying...). or have blizzard implement a way to watch replays online. Not having a co caster is just a bad idea. Lagging players out causing unplayable conditions is an even worse idea. I think your mistaking having multiple streamers with a co caster, or just making a general assumption. I know none of our co casters have ever caused lag issues.
I have watched your stream before and seen players pause games and ask casters/obs to leave. To which ur casters responded with some bullshit self entitled attitude and of course didnt leave. It has happened and will continue to happen.
It is NOT an assumption i have witnessed it multiple time on multiple streams during multiple events.
Morrow just got banned from a tourny for 3 weeks due to this exact issue. Players >> Casters/obs.
Personally i dont care how many viewers u get to live events. If it means that u have to negatively effect the players with lag, or cheating than you NEED to find an alternative and stop being greedy. This is about the game, not about you or some 15 year old nerds who want to watch.
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On September 07 2010 00:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 00:47 Carl_Sagan wrote:
Bah, anyone who says there is a difference between watching a game live, and watching a replay livecast 10 minutes later with a banner blocking the replay tab, tell me why 15k people watched Day9's king of the beta finals. I could care less, and much prefer that option if players have problems with spectators.
Cause it was Day9. He could put on a $2k tournament between between bronze players on the Starcraft II release day and he could have got 15k ppl.
Yet all videos from the likes of PsyStarcraft, Crota & other you tubers that are just replays with commentary pull in tens of thousands and sometimes hundreds of thousands of viewers per video, while most livestreamers are lucky to get 1k even when doing tournaments. There's a vocal minority of people who want live or nothing else, most of whom reside in the TL forums, the majority of the people who watch SC are happy to watch replays with commentary, and actually prefer the convenience of VOD over having to order their lives around tournament schedules.
When diggity was putting the Gosucoaching cup vods up on youtube he was getting 20k+ views per video which is way more than the number of people who were watching it live. For some reason tournament organisers seem to think that live is where most of the viewers are going to tune in, which is why they are making exactly $0 from Starcraft while people like HD and Husky are actually earning a living from their youtube accounts doing it via replays.
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On September 07 2010 01:13 Therickz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 16:31 Therickz wrote:
People who say, Players should be allowed to say that caster or obs cant be in the game.
I'd say it should be completely up to the casters and the admins of the tournie, as its their money they put into it, if they want coverage of it, they should be able to cover the a match.
Its just bullshit to say that its up to the player, if they dont wanna get casted, cus it lags? dont play then, no one force you to play in it.
Go make a tournie yourself with your own money as prizes, and then suddenly, you are not allowed to watch the game, cus the player dont want to. its unfair to the host, and he wants coverage, he should be allowed that. im just gonna quote what i said earlier in the thread cus i see people still not getting it
It's on the caster to be responsible enough to have a good internet connection. You can say "it's just bullshit" but it doesn't change the fact that a caster with bad lag is going to negatively affect the game for both players. If the organizers can't find a caster without bad lag, that's their own damn fault. That is their problem, their responsibility. If their caster's lag is so bad that both players want a caster ousted, why in the world are you blaming the player?
The caster needs to take care of his own shit (his internet connection) before QQing that he was ousted from the game. It's a matter of responsbility.
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On September 07 2010 01:12 piegasm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 00:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 07 2010 00:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 00:47 Carl_Sagan wrote:
Bah, anyone who says there is a difference between watching a game live, and watching a replay livecast 10 minutes later with a banner blocking the replay tab, tell me why 15k people watched Day9's king of the beta finals. I could care less, and much prefer that option if players have problems with spectators.
Cause it was Day9. He could put on a $2k tournament between between bronze players on the Starcraft II release day and he could have got 15k ppl. So how about raising the standards on everything rather than lowering the standards on everything? Bad casters need to cast live, else they aren't able to generate any interest, which causes the tournaments to be bad (cheating, lag). But if streams would work on building audiences themselves rather than relying purely on "I'm lucky enough to be a spectator in this game" then the tournaments could be run properly and spectators would get a satisfying show anyway. I do agree there is a influx of bad casters that are doing anything they can to sneak in a ESL game or w/e. I said it in the ESL thread, this free for all casting shit really needs to come to an end. 1 streamer per match. Why should there be 15 streams one event is beyond me. We keep just our caster and co caster in and have never had lag problems. But don't let people like BigT speak for all the casters. Not all of us are unethical as hell. Replays are a better system but there is the problem of the decreased viewership and players never sending in replays. You can't go and DQ half of a tournament for not sending in replays, and players are very, very bad about sending replays in. The spoiler issue may be one of the biggest, I've had a very established and well know gamer that plays on a very reputable NA Pro Gaming Team spoil the results of the only tournament we have ran off replays (cause of potential cheating issues) over and over and because he was a mod on that website ended up having to contact the website owner to get the spoilers edited out. The spoiler he did spoiled a whole half of a bracket and more importantly spoiled a whole half bracket for the caster. Think that might explain why I had a 35% lower view rate than any other part of the tournament?? The only reason I can think of for having more than one stream in a game would be if you had an official stream and a local stream. Say ICCUP is the official stream, casting a MorroW match and there's a Swedish stream that also wants to cast it. I don't think it's unreasonable to let the Swedes stream their countryman. Even in that case though, there's no reason you couldn't put ICCUP in a different match in that situation, especially if you organized the streamers correctly from the start. I disagree you can't DQ half the tournament, or at least that it shouldn't come to that if admins are willing to demonstrate that they're willing to hand out DQs to players who fail to comply. Players will continue to drag their feet as long as there are no consequences. I think, once players saw one or two people DQd for not promptly providing replays, they'd get over their reluctance.
The problem is as soon as you say "ah sure you're not an official caster, but it's local for you so it's cool" sets a bad trend. What happens if you have 10 local casters in that area, why can't they join? How do you differentiate between one unofficial caster and another. Sort of the "if you give a mouse a cookie" theory. Also how is it fair to an "official caster" to get kicked out by an unofficial one. Tournaments (here's looking at you WolfCup and ESL EU) need to stop having caster free for alls. I cannot think of one time live casting has been an issue when you only have one set of streamers. Yes more exposure is good, but it seems to be a common theme of all these problems popping up when there is more than one casting service in a game.
Players are really bad at sending replays, period. This has to change on the players end before anything like this could happen. I sent out a big message at the start of the ITL Grand Prix saying you would be dq'd if you don't send replays, and I should not have to ask you. I had to ask (again sans KawaiiRice) every single player for their replays every single game, most multiple times. I mean Raelcun pulled up where HuK and Machine STILL have not sent in replays for a $12,000 tournament. WTF????
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I think HuK has been more than reasonable seeing it from both sides of the coin - and i think people need to realise that both parties should be heard.
Nearly every gamer has been in a situation with obs/specs/casters what ever lagging - and it's not a joy to witness, never mind play with - so i can completely and utterly sympathize with the players pov. I also understand the other side of the coin - but ultimately i think some casters have stepped over the boundary of reasonable and that's when the problems occur - when a player asks someone to leave, and they stay despite ruining the game, not only for the spectators - but all the viewers as well just for the sake of staying in the game to keep their viewer count it's pretty absurd.
While i can't think of a solution, and although i really do enjoy watching events live - i believe having less casters/streamers the better when it comes to online play, just to avoid lag issues/delaying tournaments and obviously to avoid cheating.
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On September 07 2010 01:14 Fodder03 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:12 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 01:09 Fodder03 wrote:On September 07 2010 01:08 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 01:06 Nizaris wrote:On September 07 2010 01:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Replays are a better system but there is the problem of the decreased viewership and players never sending in replays. You can't go and DQ half of a tournament for not sending in replays, and players are very, very bad about sending replays in.
Biggest problem with replay casting is the inevitable de-sync. Only way to avoid it would be to only have one caster cast the game (no more co caster, kind of annoying...). or have blizzard implement a way to watch replays online. Not having a co caster is just a bad idea. Lagging players out causing unplayable conditions is an even worse idea. I think your mistaking having multiple streamers with a co caster, or just making a general assumption. I know none of our co casters have ever caused lag issues. I have watched your stream before and seen players pause games and ask casters/obs to leave. To which ur casters responded with some bullshit self entitled attitude and of course didnt leave. It has happened and will continue to happen. It is NOT an assumption i have witnessed it multiple time on multiple streams during multiple events. Morrow just got banned from a tourny for 3 weeks due to this exact issue. Players >> Casters/obs. Personally i dont care how many viewers u get to live events. If it means that u have to negatively effect the players with lag, or cheating than you NEED to find an alternative and stop being greedy. This is about the game, not about you or some 15 year old nerds who want to watch.
No you are mistaken. This has not happened. ALL our VOD's are up on our Ustream. Prove it cause your not telling the truth here.
This is a game but without the 15 year old nerds we can be like the other games where we just play for free. Without the "15 year old nerds" HuK would not be on a pro team, Silver would still be unsigned, and there would not be over $1 million in prizes for this game.
It is about the fans, they are what makes this a legit E-sport.
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On September 07 2010 01:18 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:12 piegasm wrote:On September 07 2010 01:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 00:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 07 2010 00:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 07 2010 00:47 Carl_Sagan wrote:
Bah, anyone who says there is a difference between watching a game live, and watching a replay livecast 10 minutes later with a banner blocking the replay tab, tell me why 15k people watched Day9's king of the beta finals. I could care less, and much prefer that option if players have problems with spectators.
Cause it was Day9. He could put on a $2k tournament between between bronze players on the Starcraft II release day and he could have got 15k ppl. So how about raising the standards on everything rather than lowering the standards on everything? Bad casters need to cast live, else they aren't able to generate any interest, which causes the tournaments to be bad (cheating, lag). But if streams would work on building audiences themselves rather than relying purely on "I'm lucky enough to be a spectator in this game" then the tournaments could be run properly and spectators would get a satisfying show anyway. I do agree there is a influx of bad casters that are doing anything they can to sneak in a ESL game or w/e. I said it in the ESL thread, this free for all casting shit really needs to come to an end. 1 streamer per match. Why should there be 15 streams one event is beyond me. We keep just our caster and co caster in and have never had lag problems. But don't let people like BigT speak for all the casters. Not all of us are unethical as hell. Replays are a better system but there is the problem of the decreased viewership and players never sending in replays. You can't go and DQ half of a tournament for not sending in replays, and players are very, very bad about sending replays in. The spoiler issue may be one of the biggest, I've had a very established and well know gamer that plays on a very reputable NA Pro Gaming Team spoil the results of the only tournament we have ran off replays (cause of potential cheating issues) over and over and because he was a mod on that website ended up having to contact the website owner to get the spoilers edited out. The spoiler he did spoiled a whole half of a bracket and more importantly spoiled a whole half bracket for the caster. Think that might explain why I had a 35% lower view rate than any other part of the tournament?? The only reason I can think of for having more than one stream in a game would be if you had an official stream and a local stream. Say ICCUP is the official stream, casting a MorroW match and there's a Swedish stream that also wants to cast it. I don't think it's unreasonable to let the Swedes stream their countryman. Even in that case though, there's no reason you couldn't put ICCUP in a different match in that situation, especially if you organized the streamers correctly from the start. I disagree you can't DQ half the tournament, or at least that it shouldn't come to that if admins are willing to demonstrate that they're willing to hand out DQs to players who fail to comply. Players will continue to drag their feet as long as there are no consequences. I think, once players saw one or two people DQd for not promptly providing replays, they'd get over their reluctance. The problem is as soon as you say "ah sure you're not an official caster, but it's local for you so it's cool" sets a bad trend. What happens if you have 10 local casters in that area, why can't they join? How do you differentiate between one unofficial caster and another. Sort of the "if you give a mouse a cookie" theory. Also how is it fair to an "official caster" to get kicked out by an unofficial one. Tournaments (here's looking at you WolfCup and ESL EU) need to stop having caster free for alls. I cannot think of one time live casting has been an issue when you only have one set of streamers. Yes more exposure is good, but it seems to be a common theme of all these problems popping up when there is more than one casting service in a game. Players are really bad at sending replays, period. This has to change on the players end before anything like this could happen. I sent out a big message at the start of the ITL Grand Prix saying you would be dq'd if you don't send replays, and I should not have to ask you. I had to ask (again sans KawaiiRice) every single player for their replays every single game, most multiple times. I mean Raelcun pulled up where HuK and Machine STILL have not sent in replays for a $12,000 tournament. WTF????
So if asking for reps isnt working find an alternative.
Simple, have a ref in the game (which are in 90% of tourny games) have the REF save the replay.
Players dont get hassled, u get ur replays. E z p z
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EPT
