EPTPlayers vs Casters - Page 18
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Neo.NEt
United States785 Posts
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
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Snowfield
1289 Posts
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GenoZStriker
United States2914 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:14 Ipp wrote: without the viewers the players won't have any funding. That's absolutely not true. Do you want to know how LucifroN and many other players became what they are today? By having their name put up in multiple news title on websites such as myMYM, GosuGamers, readmore, fragster and etc when they win online tournaments. Not live streaming. Till this day you probably wonder why most talented players have no sponsors even though they constantly appear winning on livestreams because they do not get mentioned in the media enough for esports orgs to care. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote: The problem is the bigger and bigger e-sports becomes the more and more this will become standard. It also takes a lot of the fun out of things like live discussion chats. Also it already happens, I knew you lost to IdrA 0-2 or 3 (cannot remember if it was bo3 or 5) in HDH because some asshole put it on the Ustream channel comments. All I had to do was load the Ustream channel and it was spoiled. I seriously paid about 2% attention to the rest of the match because of this. The bigger esports becomes, the more tournaments will be able to have LANs and this won't be an issue. And I'm not sure what's wrong with it becoming standard. If I think it's the best way to do it then obviously I'd want it to become standard. As for the spoilers, that's something Blizzard would have to fix. If they make a custom game setting that makes the game totally private, not leaving any public trace of its existence on bnet, then we won't have these match history spoilers. But while we wait for Blizzard to fix the problems with match history, we need to run tournaments properly. I really can't understand why so many people want to watch a tournament that is poorly run. Step 1 is to run the tournament properly. Step 2 is to broadcast the tournament as best as possible. If you want to chat live about the event, then do it properly by meeting up with friends to watch it together or, if all your SC2 buddies live too far away, then meet up on vent/skype/irc. The group of people who want to chat live with strangers don't really matter in the big picture. | ||
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:23 Snowfield wrote: I have to admit though, watching streams that are not live (aka casting replays) are pretty lame compared to live games, it's just the feeling that the outcome is already settled which makes it pretty boring to watch. This is a really misguided perspective on time. The outcome is settled before the games are even played. What spectators need is to be in the first group of people to publicly experience the games. | ||
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NonY
8751 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:26 leakingpear wrote: In this post I will agree with everything the original poster says, while adding nothing of value other than some trite oversimplifications of situations I don't really understand. This will then add some much needed padding to another team liquid thread in order to increase my post count so then when someone points out how pointless my post is, I can refer to my post count as a means of asserting that I am in fact a worthwhile poster and not at all a waste of space. Classic British humor :D | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote: The bigger esports becomes, the more tournaments will be able to have LANs and this won't be an issue. And I'm not sure what's wrong with it becoming standard. If I think it's the best way to do it then obviously I'd want it to become standard. As for the spoilers, that's something Blizzard would have to fix. If they make a custom game setting that makes the game totally private, not leaving any public trace of its existence on bnet, then we won't have these match history spoilers. But while we wait for Blizzard to fix the problems with match history, we need to run tournaments properly. I really can't understand why so many people want to watch a tournament that is poorly run. Step 1 is to run the tournament properly. Step 2 is to broadcast the tournament as best as possible. If you want to chat live about the event, then do it properly by meeting up with friends to watch it together or, if all your SC2 buddies live too far away, then meet up on vent/skype/irc. The group of people who want to chat live with strangers don't really matter in the big picture. True on the LAN thing, but we are no where near that yet. Because most people don't give a shit if it's not live. During the ITL Grand Prix we lost about 100-300 viewers every time we started a replay and had to do the countdown. There would be about 30 messages saying "this isn't live?" or "not live, no thanks". People like live. It's pretty obvious Blizzard has no intention of fixing this problem, and as shown in the past we cannot count on them to fix battle.net for tournament play. Not all people are fortunate enough to have friends who live close that watch SC. I know I don't. Do I not deserve to discuss events while live? | ||
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Snowfield
1289 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote: This is a really misguided perspective on time. The outcome is settled before the games are even played. What spectators need is to be in the first group of people to publicly experience the games. I realize this, but still i just have the feeling that in a live game anything can happen, but in a replay, it's already done. I'm sure many more feel like that. | ||
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DamageInq
United States283 Posts
Personally I think all of the casters do a great job making the replay feel realtime which really makes the only con of replays nearly non-existant. For ensuring fairness and smooth gameplay it's a small price to pay. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:33 Snowfield wrote: I realize this, but still i just have the feeling that in a live game anything can happen, but in a replay, it's already done. I'm sure many more feel like that. Sure it's already done but what does it matter if you haven't seen it? When you're reading a book, you don't think that the story is stupid because the book is already written, right? | ||
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Frankon
3054 Posts
Might i remind you guys that first full round matches werent streamed at all. They were all avaliable on youtube with serious spoilers about who wins.HD and Husky didnt listen to put all the games ine one set under one name. By popular demand (namely us TL users) Husky and HD were "forced" to stream the games before putting them on youtube. And mind i remind you guys that HD was always setting up his stream for a hour before the cast of games since he didnt now how to do it? Oh and HDH by player and technical aspect (due to the fact that they planned to do all games in 1080p for youtube) were totall failure. Due to the matches taking place for over a month of time. There was like 2-3 major balance changing patches. That totally screwed the results. Still i enjoyed it. But hopefully there wont be other event like that hopefully (i mean that much screwed) | ||
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Warrice
United States565 Posts
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Carl_Sagan
United States226 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:47 Carl_Sagan wrote: Bah, anyone who says there is a difference between watching a game live, and watching a replay livecast 10 minutes later with a banner blocking the replay tab, tell me why 15k people watched Day9's king of the beta finals. I could care less, and much prefer that option if players have problems with spectators. Cause it was Day9. He could put on a $2k tournament between between bronze players on the Starcraft II release day and he could have got 15k ppl. | ||
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NonY
8751 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Cause it was Day9. He could put on a $2k tournament between between bronze players on the Starcraft II release day and he could have got 15k ppl. So how about raising the standards on everything rather than lowering the standards on everything? Bad casters need to cast live, else they aren't able to generate any interest, which causes the tournaments to be bad (cheating, lag). But if streams would work on building audiences themselves rather than relying purely on "I'm lucky enough to be a spectator in this game" then the tournaments could be run properly and spectators would get a satisfying show anyway. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On September 07 2010 00:49 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Cause it was Day9. He could put on a $2k tournament between between bronze players on the Starcraft II release day and he could have got 15k ppl. Strangely enough your joke hits on a legitimate point though. If casters improve, the quality of the games (which can be tied to live/replays) can decline and still be entertaining; thus them watching the stream regardless of the actual games. The casters who aren't up to snuff NEED live games and recognized players because they aren't good enough to attract viewers. As an example, I was watching Raelcun's stream earlier despite them casting a poor game (and in some cases, no stream) while other matches were happening on other streams. Why? Because Raelcun + Josh were 10x more pleasing to my ears and brain. | ||
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Fodder03
Canada142 Posts
On September 06 2010 15:43 G2Wolf wrote: Yea, sure. I highly doubt you can find 250ish volunteers to trust to obs and save the replay and send it in without a fair bit of failure and possibly cheating involved. You mean u arent willing to put in the effort to find refs? 250 volunteers? ur hosting 500 man tournys? U might also have to spread ur games out if u only find a certain ammount of refs. These are the sacrifices that will have to be made to keep everyone in the community happy especially the players. You CANNOT continue having 15 people in every game if it is causing the players to experience lag. | ||
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Murgel
Sweden175 Posts
If a broadcast is delayed or casted off of replays I will hope casters and players do their best to conceal the result before I get to see it, but if I somehow find out about a result it's not the end of the world either. The important thing is that the right guy won. If I know spoilers are out there I'll try to avoid them by not looking in threads or by avoiding stream chat. Mods should moderate if people are spoiling in supposedly spoiler free environments anyway. As Huk said, just close stream chat it if nothing else helps. As lag can be reduced by having less casters there should be less casters, and it's as easy as that. To the spoiled "waah it's not as exciting if it's replays" argument I can just say that I don't enjoy watching the constant hunt for players and games live casts brings either. Does "We're still waiting for player xxx to finish his game. -insert music you'd ram forks into your ears rather than listen to here-" sound familiar to anyone? TheGunRun's singing can only carry a cast for so long, and besides, I thought HDH was awesome, all off of replays. How many viewers did those replay casts get? Tens of thousands? Probably not adding anything new here but whatever. | ||
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