Question for atheist - Page 8

On May 31 2004 03:35 Li.Echo wrote:
simply put: based on the theory of quantum mechanics, a fascinating and current result is that every possible history of the universe exists. You couple this with the correct philosphy, "why are we here? because we are about to ask it." I find it ironic how christians so quickly jump to label things as impossible when they themselves believe in miracles and in a world were nothing is real or solid because it is only a breif reflection of the infinite mind of a god...which is more impossible? more fantastic?

On May 31 2004 04:05 Starfire.fX wrote:
Beyond an existence than I can describe no better than "comfortable" (I have never wanted for anythign in my life) I have never seen any existence of a "GoD" figure. To comprehend such a being is beyond anything I can think of... I've done some crazy drugs and my mind has considered some things that I can only assume you would think to be insane... I think I have legally been insane for a time, but in the end it always comes back to people use GoD as an excuse to be lazy.

They beleive in a second chance if they half-ass be good in this life, a forevermore... What earned them this second chance? Their sloth? Their Greed? Their own deadly sins call them down, I shun devout christians and those without the ability to acknowledge their mortalitiy.

On May 31 2004 04:19 kornu wrote:
the thing is, each one fo us gets imprinted with a set of basic beliefs and values during our first years of life. it's called symbolic violence. the intricate mechanics of society make it so that our parents (mothers especially) shape us in a certain direction that works for the society in question. for instance, an arab family will 'arabize' its children, in the same way that every family in every part of the world will thend to shape its children the way they were shaped... it's like society has some kind of collective norms, a matrix so to say, that gets grafted into each one of us. the particular, regional society each of us live in is the result of many many years of evolution, and the fact that we exist confirms that society has evolved in a good way, ensuring survival, therefore, it created this mechanism to preserve itself and protect itself at the same time from outside disturbance (such as other societies). from nature's point of view, good means anything that ensures survival. while we have developed a set of morals, unfortunately none of us really live to them, i.e. enforce them rather than the classic set of morals we were trained with, because that is the whole point of symbolic violence... it teaches all individuals in a specific region to act the same, think the same (i'm reffering to fundamental items, not favourite colors), preserve the characteristics of the place we grew up in. that's why christian families impose christian values on their children, even if the bible says that we have free will, therefore negating the 'free will' part (i bet all christians will try to argue that i'm very wrong, and that is absolutely normal, they were trained this way). that's why americans are so damn proud to be americans, that's why people fight wars, they were trained to value their religion, their race, their nationality higher than the general human values. and those mechanism, the ones put in place in our early days, are the most efficient way for society to preserve itself. those inhibitors work above reason, above will. if all the people would have the strength to think above those, above religion or color, the world would truly be a better place. but unfortunately, we are all trained to hold our own values higher than others' values, and the worst thing yet is that we cannot accept any others, even when reason makes us see that we are wrong. if i were to post 100 incosistencies in the bible, which is supposed to be perfect, as it is god's word, and god is perfect, therefore proving that christianity is wrong (seeing how religions are absolute, there's no room for ambiguity), i'm sure all the christians will just jump me and try to argue that they are right and i'm just an ignorant, blind, sad human being. and if i'll prove their new arguments wrong, they'll still find new ways to interpret them so that they are right. it's the fault of symbolic violence, the instinctual thing that our parents do to us. i won't be able to open anyone's eyes, as they are pretty much shut, in the same way that no christian will be able to 'open' mine. i live in a 'profoundly' christian country, and most christians i know are not worthy of the title 'christian'. they all tend to think that exceptions are ok, and that god and religion are not absolute, you can interpret them in a way that benefits you or that is closer to what you believe in when in truth it is not. that shook the power of my faith, and made me realize that their religiusness is more focused on their being a christian than loving god, peace and harmony. and i confess to not being a christian anymore. it would have really been for the best if all people were atheists to begin with. fundamentalism would no longer have its 'spiritual' motivation, the inquisition would have been non-existant, no nation would start a crusade against 'heathens', noone would feel entitled to persecute anyone because their god is 'false'. and how would you explain buddhism, being that old? is that a heresy? how about the crimes the bible chracters did... were they ok because it was actually god that worked through them?
i remember seeing a very nice episode of south park, from season 7, something about mormones. that's the best example of how society shapes us in a certain way. we become less interested in the certainty of our ideals and values, and more interested in preserving and spreading them.

On May 31 2004 04:42 TanGo wrote:
I've only read through some of the posts given, but I still think you should prove the excistence of the so called bible. Where did it come from? Who typed it? If I remember correctly it was some man in contact with god, but you see, the problem (unless god suffers from amnesia) is that the bible was written by more than 5 people, if you study it and read every line, you can see a lot of weird things, for example, we did this in class, read 3-4 pages and then somehow, man was created and then a woman, but the bible created the woman 2 times, from a rib from the man and then some other way I cant remember right now... but you see, it is proven that the bible was written by more than 5 writers, so wtf?
And the nature itself is very spectacular, there is evolution and also science knows the basic substances that every lifeform consists of and it is also researched that all those substances excisted when life evolved on earth. Some might say, like in the first post that the odds of these substances to react is one too a shit load of zeros but do you know how small these substances are? they are atoms, and do you know how many atoms there is? If you have gone to school instead of beeing taught at church you know the answer is way over a shit load of zeros, and then the chances for them to react is alot less than you say.

On May 31 2004 05:13 Muhweli wrote:
To the original question:
If you also consider the universe infinite, the probability of life spawning at some part of the universe is actually pretty probable =]

On May 31 2004 05:52 FadeToChaos wrote:
Why the bible is bs:

Jesus was born in summer, because there were sheeps, and there is snow there december 25th and not only that: the star they all saw was actually a planet aligment and astrophysician said that happened somewhere in june.

He died at 40 years old not 33. When he died the sky became black. that's actually a solar eclipse that happened when he died. If we look at the time between that planetary alignement and that eclipse, it gives 40 years. So Jesus is born in the year -7 before Christ.

And who the fuck told them about all of this? they werent even there when he was born and in his early years. John wasnt even a real disciple. He was a kid when Jesus died (if I remember correctly)

On May 31 2004 07:30 Heen wrote:
See, intelligent and logical people don't waste their times trying to prove there there are no invisible 100-ft-tall pink kangaroos jumping around in everyone's backyard. Even if someone does prove it, they will pull out their secret weapon: "Oh noez foolish one! Thy cannot prove miracles! You must believe!!! with your heart!!! yes, love! love all!"

On May 31 2004 07:30 Heen wrote:
These fucking fag missionaries under disguise just keep growing and growing because of the world's gullibility.

They come here with some non-sense pulled out of their ass and try to talk about God or Jesus as a matter of fact. Christians have less proof than atheists. In fact, I'd go as far as saying they have no proof that God magically created earth. Their bible often goes against them. But, 99.(9 repeated 300 times)% of Christians only take the bible's word for all their beliefs. Jesus did so many things that defied the laws of physics. He walked on water. He came back to life! (Those are the only 2 examples I can think of since I don't read the bible.)

Their whole arguement is "if you can't prove us wrong, we're right," which is ridiculously retarded and just goes on to show how baseless their beliefs are. See, intelligent and logical people don't waste their times trying to prove there there are no invisible 100-ft-tall pink kangaroos jumping around in everyone's backyard. Even if someone does prove it, they will pull out their secret weapon: "Oh noez foolish one! Thy cannot prove miracles! You must believe!!! with your heart!!! yes, love! love all!"

Well, no shit asshole. That's why you're idiots. I admit that your codes of how to live life lovingly and peacefully are good but trying to force a fake story down everyone's throat is getting fucking annoying. It's like listening to children who try to lecture me on how Santa exists and if I deny it, they cry and try to patronize me.

Good Night.
or do you want me to read you some more bed-time stories before you fall asleep?

On May 31 2004 08:58 Keanu_Reaver wrote:
then why is christianity a 2000+ year religion while the greek religion lasted only in their time

On May 31 2004 09:15 Keanu_Reaver wrote:


i thought this stupid little theory would die out when everyone used half their brain to figure out it was stupid. but because this forum lacks even the basic knowledge on what an "abstract concept" is, i guess maybe ill have to explain it?

God "is". he wasn't created, he doesn't "come from" anywhere, blah blah blah. boy does that sound ridiculous, just like numbers, they weren't created, they aren't a product of anything, they are infinite, they simply "are".

this is what an abstract concept is, now everyone stop fucking trying to apply basic and simple "rules" to an abstract concept

On May 31 2004 09:24 Keanu_Reaver wrote:


john baptized jesus

...

On May 31 2004 09:27 BigBalls wrote:
keanu, there are two theories. the first is that the universe is growing at a decreasing speed, the other that the growth of the universe is accelerating. If it is growing at a decreasing speed, then eventually, it will cease growing, then begin to shrink.

However, if it is growing at an increasing rate then the size of the universe WILL be unbounded. I suppose you are right in saying however that it is still bounded right now (growing at a finite rate for a finite time). However, applying this theory will result in an infinite universe size over an infinite time.

On May 31 2004 09:31 EAGER-beaver wrote:


The growth of the universe is accelerating. It was big news 6 months ago.

On May 31 2004 09:14 Tien wrote:
Well actually the odds of life happening in this universe is 1/infinite. I read an entire book describing how by 'chance' certain things happened the way they are. Like why protons when they were created a couple of days after the big bang happened to decay after trillions and trillions of years instead of a couple of thousand years. Or why is the proton smaller than the neutron? Or why was it that there are 4 dimensions instead of a trillion? If all of this was otherwise, we wouldnt be here. So the probability of having a creation God is quite high right now.

However I still go with scientific approach, if it wasn't for people that didn't believe in God, we'd be living in the stone age. Science is something still new, give humanity a couple of more thousand years (which is like a blink of an eye relative to how long this universe has been here) and more and more answers about who we are will be answered.

Plus, prove that god exists and if he does, why doesnt he give a shit about us instead of leaving us here all alone?

On May 31 2004 09:27 BigBalls wrote:
keanu, there are two theories. the first is that the universe is growing at a decreasing speed, the other that the growth of the universe is accelerating. If it is growing at a decreasing speed, then eventually, it will cease growing, then begin to shrink.

However, if it is growing at an increasing rate then the size of the universe WILL be unbounded. I suppose you are right in saying however that it is still bounded right now (growing at a finite rate for a finite time). However, applying this theory will result in an infinite universe size over an infinite time.

On May 31 2004 09:30 BigBalls wrote:


jesus was born in march. december 25 is the pagan celebration of the days beginning to lengthen again (notice it occurs only 4 days after the winter solstice). Christianity is just a fusion of a jumble of previous ideas used in different religions.