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On May 31 2004 09:29 Hot_Bid wrote:
ah yes, magical faith, the ultimate debate card. whenever someone presents a point that makes a religious person question anything about their religion, they pull out the big fat faith card, which basically boils down to "you can't understand, you just have to have faith." oh that wily church, creating such a concept that essentially defeats any opposition before it even gets started. bravo, infallible church, bravo!
lmao, so true. So many wars started this way. People simply refused to see past their own stupidity and as a result killed millions upon millions all in the name of an all mighty god. Of course, faith in god isn't to blame most of the time it's just an instrument for a few power hungry corrupt individuals can use to bend the will of people. Usually religion is used to pull a curtain of ignorance in front of an entire nation, convincing them that killing the heathens is a great idea. We have monopolized media today to replace that important function of religion
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in any case, the "proof" that god exists. while i can't prove he does exist, this mixed in with my faith and personal experience makes him a very factual entity to me:
1) time: time is a product, without a universe (or God, as it were) there would not be time. if time is finite it makes that number that started this post very crucial, it means that there is a finite number of planets, a finite number of potential organisms, etc. etc., but the existance of the first atom and the supposed "fact" that at the time of the big bang, all particles travelled beyond the speed of light isn't in question, after all who can question the speed of something when one of the variables of speed doesn't exist yet. On the other hand, if time is infinite, that number no longer matters, but it then makes the creation of our universe according to the current atheist theories an impossibility. Time is a stumbling block for anyone who believes the universe was created without an almighty god.
2) the bombadier beetle. im sure a few of you know of this little guy. due to the mechanism's in his body it is absolutely impossible for random mutations to create him. a quick lesson: this guy has two seperate compartments in his body, each one contains a chemical, as a defense mechanism he spurts out these two seperate chemicals and when they touch, they explode. how could he possibly have existed through random mutation? ok, a mutation creates the first chemical, he has no defense mechanism, natural selection means he's gone before he ever gets to mutate the second part. not to mention the complexity of the mechanism itself. expecting it to all come around at once is the same as expecting to be able to throw parts out of a plane and expecting them to land as a computer. ridiculous.
3) the dead sea scrolls date back to 200 AD~ and contain the bible in near entirety. this includes such things as where it says "the earth is spherical and held up in nothingness" which was not a belief at the time. along with many other things that it took so much longer for science to prove true
4) other scrolls of other books. as one person has said, the books of daniel showed which nations would fall and to which nations. the book of isaiah describes in amazing detail the life of jesus which is historically accurate. the book of micah shows that jesus would be born in bethlehem. Zechariah foretold that he would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, again historically accurate. and David foretold such things about jesus' life as well. these were all written hundreds of years before their prophecies came true, and many of them have scrolls proving such
5) the method of which christianity has lasted so long and is so wide spread. if you research its history and the bible's spreading, its really quite amazing
6) objective morality. such a thing would not exist with evolution as freud clearly stated, yet cultural anthropology shows that every single society ever has had certain morals in common, such things as murder and rape have not been accepted.
These are the main ideas, there are many offshoots to them (far too many to name) and with my personal experiences -- i wasn't raised a devout christian, but how i became god fearing and how i came into the nature of my current situation is really quite amazing -- i do believe in god. Though i will say the personal experiences means much more to me than the points listed above.
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On May 31 2004 09:43 EAGER-beaver wrote: Show nested quote +On May 31 2004 09:29 Hot_Bid wrote:
ah yes, magical faith, the ultimate debate card. whenever someone presents a point that makes a religious person question anything about their religion, they pull out the big fat faith card, which basically boils down to "you can't understand, you just have to have faith." oh that wily church, creating such a concept that essentially defeats any opposition before it even gets started. bravo, infallible church, bravo! lmao, so true. So many wars started this way. People simply refused to see past their own stupidity and as a result killed millions upon millions all in the name of an all mighty god. Of course, faith in god isn't to blame most of the time it's just an instrument for a few power hungry corrupt individuals can use to bend the will of people. Usually religion is used to pull a curtain of ignorance in front of an entire nation, convincing them that killing the heathens is a great idea. We have monopolized media today to replace that important function of religion
this doesn't disprove religion though, only that people seek to manipulate religion to their own gains
people will manipulate the word "peace" and "freedom" for personal gain as well, does that mean that peace and freedom don't exist? or are terrible and evil things?
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and your proofs dont confirm the existence of a god.
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On May 31 2004 10:19 BigBalls wrote:
and your proofs dont confirm the existence of a god.
i've already stated they dont, learn to read
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Then dont mention the fact that what he is saying doesnt disprove religion, cause he never said it did
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On May 31 2004 09:32 Keanu_Reaver wrote: Show nested quote +On May 31 2004 09:14 Tien wrote:
Well actually the odds of life happening in this universe is 1/infinite. I read an entire book describing how by 'chance' certain things happened the way they are. Like why protons when they were created a couple of days after the big bang happened to decay after trillions and trillions of years instead of a couple of thousand years. Or why is the proton smaller than the neutron? Or why was it that there are 4 dimensions instead of a trillion? If all of this was otherwise, we wouldnt be here. So the probability of having a creation God is quite high right now.
However I still go with scientific approach, if it wasn't for people that didn't believe in God, we'd be living in the stone age. Science is something still new, give humanity a couple of more thousand years (which is like a blink of an eye relative to how long this universe has been here) and more and more answers about who we are will be answered.
Plus, prove that god exists and if he does, why doesnt he give a shit about us instead of leaving us here all alone? ...atheism is a 100 year old fad, practically every man before then that has contributed to progression has had a religion, whether that religion was christianity or not doesn't matter
I do not intend to refute any of your 'religious' points here, i just want to make it clear... that majority beliefs do not equate to fact. I.e the world was once flat. Atleast 99.9% of the world thought so. Any claim that humans have always believed, must mean that its true, is void of any logistics or critical thinking.
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well neither does yours, dont tell me to not point out that yours doesnt prove it (even if you call it a "proof" then footnote it with saying it doesnt exactly prove the existence of a god) when youre doing the same thing to him.
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your double standards are absolutely sickening
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On May 31 2004 10:28 BigBalls wrote:
well neither does yours, dont tell me to not point out that yours doesnt prove it (even if you call it a "proof" then footnote it with saying it doesnt exactly prove the existence of a god) when youre doing the same thing to him.
the quotations were sarcastic, because every single atheist posting here will throw out some random philosophy then say something to the extent of "see? god doesn't exist!". i believe science as we have it cant prove it one way or the other, but it seems everyone else can. its ridiculous and absolutely retarded, this goes for everyone atheists and christians alike
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why should i point out his doesnt disprove religion when you already said so yourself.
if i was holding double standards i wouldnt be agnostic.
1500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you "knew" that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll "know" tomorrow.
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On May 31 2004 10:26 SW)RIF wrote: Show nested quote +On May 31 2004 09:32 Keanu_Reaver wrote: On May 31 2004 09:14 Tien wrote:
Well actually the odds of life happening in this universe is 1/infinite. I read an entire book describing how by 'chance' certain things happened the way they are. Like why protons when they were created a couple of days after the big bang happened to decay after trillions and trillions of years instead of a couple of thousand years. Or why is the proton smaller than the neutron? Or why was it that there are 4 dimensions instead of a trillion? If all of this was otherwise, we wouldnt be here. So the probability of having a creation God is quite high right now.
However I still go with scientific approach, if it wasn't for people that didn't believe in God, we'd be living in the stone age. Science is something still new, give humanity a couple of more thousand years (which is like a blink of an eye relative to how long this universe has been here) and more and more answers about who we are will be answered.
Plus, prove that god exists and if he does, why doesnt he give a shit about us instead of leaving us here all alone? ...atheism is a 100 year old fad, practically every man before then that has contributed to progression has had a religion, whether that religion was christianity or not doesn't matter I do not intend to refute any of your 'religious' points here, i just want to make it clear... that majority beliefs do not equate to fact. I.e the world was once flat. Atleast 99.9% of the world thought so. Any claim that humans have always believed, must mean that its true, is void of any logistics or critical thinking.
i dont believe that, but if someone like aristotle was to go out and publicly say something like that, he would be praised for it now (if not killed then). they had no astronomical knowledge of what the earth actually is, and the common belief was very false, yet the bible was clearly right. was it just an excellent guess?
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and people like yourself will throw out a beatle and claim that evolution is impossible
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On May 31 2004 10:30 BigBalls wrote:
why should i point out his doesnt disprove religion when you already said so yourself.
if i was holding double standards i wouldnt be agnostic.
1500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you "knew" that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll "know" tomorrow.
now you're putting words in my mouth
i've never said anything about the universe not having any other life have i? show me where i did
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On May 31 2004 10:32 BigBalls wrote:
and people like yourself will throw out a beatle and claim that evolution is impossible
that beetle has been a stumbling block for evolution since the theory of evolution was created, don't pass it off
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EPT
