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On May 31 2004 10:33 Keanu_Reaver wrote: Show nested quote +On May 31 2004 10:30 BigBalls wrote: why should i point out his doesnt disprove religion when you already said so yourself.
if i was holding double standards i wouldnt be agnostic.
1500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you "knew" that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll "know" tomorrow. now you're putting words in my mouth i've never said anything about the universe not having any other life have i? show me where i did
haha, its a movie quote, men in black. it was in response to someone else, not you.
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On May 31 2004 10:35 BigBalls wrote: Show nested quote +On May 31 2004 10:33 Keanu_Reaver wrote: On May 31 2004 10:30 BigBalls wrote: why should i point out his doesnt disprove religion when you already said so yourself.
if i was holding double standards i wouldnt be agnostic.
1500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you "knew" that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll "know" tomorrow. now you're putting words in my mouth i've never said anything about the universe not having any other life have i? show me where i did haha, its a movie quote, men in black. it was in response to someone else, not you.
then why would you quote it to me? you were clearly making this post to me by addressing me saying your use of double standards are sickening, what the hell?
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I was reading this thread and I wanted to post some of the things that Keanu just posted. Why is it that you people always think inside the box that you live in and then try to use your information about the box to try and prove the box's origin? Why does God have to live inside a time and space (and everything else)? The very concept of time and space, the very definition, is something a creator would have created. The things you study are the rules that a creator would create. Infinite doesn't begin or end, it's infinite on both ends. Why would God have to be created?
If the starcraft computer AI gained conciousness, it would know the rules as to gather minerals, not let your base get destroyed, etc... Even if it knew everything about the game; even if he knew how the game starts with a load screen, it would not know anything about the world outside of starcraft or how starcraft was created. This is a poor analogy, but this is teamliquid forums.
Christianity has nothing to do with any of the rituals you mention. Christianity has no rituals and the only thing it asks is that to believe you are faultless (that Jesus has already died for you). How can you relate that with why people suffer or the wars in history?
I was not born a Christian, in fact I was born in a communist country. I go to a church that is just three office buildings (originally one), no fancy church architecture or anything. We don't have a pastor (brother offer to speak, or we'd have guest speakers), nobody gets paid, there is no collection plate and in fact the offering box is well unnoticeable.
Speaking about probability, the probability of something doesn't change if you've done it more than once. When you flip a coin and it is heads, it doesn't mean it is any less likely to be heads on the next flip. This only happens if you predict that two heads will land right after each other which is when two probabilities are mutliplied with each other. Think about entropy, why doesn't objects just leave towards one direction? The probability of atoms at some moment all moving in same direction is much greater than life being created, or the universe from nothing (since we're speaking about rules within the box).
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and wow, its amazing how typical you all are every single atheist or person who believes in evolution whom i've approached with about the bombadier beetle in a debate has done the exact same thing, pass it off. infact, to quote one of the conversations i had:
"blah blah blah the bombadier beetle cannot exist through random mutations, so how did it come about?" "...random mutations."
and blindly following is a stereotype of christians
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On May 31 2004 10:39 I_are_n00b wrote: I was reading this thread and I wanted to post some of the things that Keanu just posted. Why is it that you people always think inside the box that you live in and then try to use your information about the box to try and prove the box's origin? Why does God have to live inside a time and space (and everything else)? The very concept of time and space, the very definition, is something a creator would have created. The things you study are the rules that a creator would create. Infinite doesn't begin or end, it's infinite on both ends. Why would God have to be created?
If the starcraft computer AI gained conciousness, it would know the rules as to gather minerals, not let your base get destroyed, etc... Even if it knew everything about the game; even if he knew how the game starts with a load screen, it would not know anything about the world outside of starcraft or how starcraft was created. This is a poor analogy, but this is teamliquid forums.
Christianity has nothing to do with any of the rituals you mention. Christianity has no rituals and the only thing it asks is that to believe you are faultless (that Jesus has already died for you). How can you relate that with why people suffer or the wars in history?
I was not born a Christian, in fact I was born in a communist country. I go to a church that is just three office buildings (originally one), no fancy church architecture or anything. We don't have a pastor (brother offer to speak, or we'd have guest speakers), nobody gets paid, there is no collection plate and in fact the offering box is well unnoticeable.
Speaking about probability, the probability of something doesn't change if you've done it more than once. When you flip a coin and it is heads, it doesn't mean it is any less likely to be heads on the next flip. This only happens if you predict that two heads will land right after each other which is when two probabilities are mutliplied with each other. Think about entropy, why doesn't objects just leave towards one direct? The probability of atoms at some moment all moving in same direction is much greater than life being created, or the universe from nothing (since we're speaking about rules within the box).
you'd be surprised how few people actually understand probability, where are all the poker players?
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Okay since my thread got deleted... FUCK. well anyways, this is a lot stupider anyways. Even if it's a practical impossibility - why would an existence of an allmighty entity be more probable? listen to yourselves!?!?!1+
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Arguing with a religious is like arguing with a stupid rock. You can't win -.-
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The world existing by itself is a practical impossibility by the rules of this world. An almighty entity is more probable because, again, He wouldn't have to play the rules that we live with. If something is infinite, then there is no end or beginning, therefore, there was never an occurance (I choose that word because time is irrelevant) where the entity didn't exist.
Maybe if your arguments were better, or if you'd be more open minded maybe you'd consider the other argument.
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On May 30 2004 22:13 AeroGx wrote: I can understand how some people can only trust science... As if we aren't lied to enough practically every day? but ive done the research looked at the interviews and to be frank the odds of Creation without a Creator* (sorry for the typo) as we know it today are 1 to 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Mathemations regards anything over 1 to 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to be an impossiblity. Jace  This is a common but misleading argument. Plz dont take any offense: see out of so many intercourses and billions of sperms, only one particular sperm produced you. Why would sth with such a small probobility ever happen? becoz it's already happened. When sth's already happened the probability of its happening is 1, not 1 out of 100000....... Otherwise every single person in this world would be a miracle; and the world population in totality would be a miracle to the power of 5billion.
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Netherlands1301 Posts
On May 31 2004 10:39 I_are_n00b wrote: I was reading this thread and I wanted to post some of the things that Keanu just posted. Why is it that you people always think inside the box that you live in and then try to use your information about the box to try and prove the box's origin? Why does God have to live inside a time and space (and everything else)? The very concept of time and space, the very definition, is something a creator would have created. The things you study are the rules that a creator would create. Infinite doesn't begin or end, it's infinite on both ends. Why would God have to be created?
If the starcraft computer AI gained conciousness, it would know the rules as to gather minerals, not let your base get destroyed, etc... Even if it knew everything about the game; even if he knew how the game starts with a load screen, it would not know anything about the world outside of starcraft or how starcraft was created. This is a poor analogy, but this is teamliquid forums.
Christianity has nothing to do with any of the rituals you mention. Christianity has no rituals and the only thing it asks is that to believe you are faultless (that Jesus has already died for you). How can you relate that with why people suffer or the wars in history?
I was not born a Christian, in fact I was born in a communist country. I go to a church that is just three office buildings (originally one), no fancy church architecture or anything. We don't have a pastor (brother offer to speak, or we'd have guest speakers), nobody gets paid, there is no collection plate and in fact the offering box is well unnoticeable.
Speaking about probability, the probability of something doesn't change if you've done it more than once. When you flip a coin and it is heads, it doesn't mean it is any less likely to be heads on the next flip. This only happens if you predict that two heads will land right after each other which is when two probabilities are mutliplied with each other. Think about entropy, why doesn't objects just leave towards one direction? The probability of atoms at some moment all moving in same direction is much greater than life being created, or the universe from nothing (since we're speaking about rules within the box).
You're right about not knowing anything about what's outside the box. But all that's inside this so to speak 'box' of yours is all that is important to a person, and all he will ever have anything to do with in his life (if it wasn't the definition of this 'box' wouldn't be right). So why speculate about what's outside? for it must be something we cannot possibly begin to imagine. Why state there is a something called a creator, or God, while we have absolutely no clue?
I know I can depend on the laws of physics in the world I live in because they're proven and I know it's real. But how could I ever dedicate my life to something that is highly speculative and not logical in any way, like the existence of a God? There are just too many explanations for why it's convenient for people to make up a 'God' character, and the proves of it's existence are none.
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On May 31 2004 09:21 Keanu_Reaver wrote: Show nested quote +On May 31 2004 04:42 TanGo wrote: I've only read through some of the posts given, but I still think you should prove the excistence of the so called bible. Where did it come from? Who typed it? If I remember correctly it was some man in contact with god, but you see, the problem (unless god suffers from amnesia) is that the bible was written by more than 5 people, if you study it and read every line, you can see a lot of weird things, for example, we did this in class, read 3-4 pages and then somehow, man was created and then a woman, but the bible created the woman 2 times, from a rib from the man and then some other way I cant remember right now... but you see, it is proven that the bible was written by more than 5 writers, so wtf? And the nature itself is very spectacular, there is evolution and also science knows the basic substances that every lifeform consists of and it is also researched that all those substances excisted when life evolved on earth. Some might say, like in the first post that the odds of these substances to react is one too a shit load of zeros but do you know how small these substances are? they are atoms, and do you know how many atoms there is? If you have gone to school instead of beeing taught at church you know the answer is way over a shit load of zeros, and then the chances for them to react is alot less than you say. you dont understand at all the nature of that number in the first post, infact im not sure if you even understand simple math
Heyz im up. Bible may have been written by many different men but it is in comeplete agreement with itself. state any comment otherwise I will have to persuade otherwise. Let's all just say or "pretend" if you need to... that god exists. he would have created all things. we would not see him because he is a spirit person. The evidence he left is the physical creation we CAN see.. doesn't that pretty much explain itself?
Jace
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On May 31 2004 10:36 Keanu_Reaver wrote: Show nested quote +On May 31 2004 10:35 BigBalls wrote: On May 31 2004 10:33 Keanu_Reaver wrote: On May 31 2004 10:30 BigBalls wrote: why should i point out his doesnt disprove religion when you already said so yourself.
if i was holding double standards i wouldnt be agnostic.
1500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you "knew" that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll "know" tomorrow. now you're putting words in my mouth i've never said anything about the universe not having any other life have i? show me where i did haha, its a movie quote, men in black. it was in response to someone else, not you. then why would you quote it to me? you were clearly making this post to me by addressing me saying your use of double standards are sickening, what the hell?
Like i said, it was in response to someone else. I didnt feel like making two posts when i could just put down a tangential quote from men in black in the same post. It wasnt towards you, it wouldnt make any sense for it to be addressed towards you. It was for the guy who said the earth was flat. I saw his post, thought of the quote and pasted it in a post I made.
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On May 31 2004 11:06 Liquid`Spy wrote: Show nested quote +On May 31 2004 10:39 I_are_n00b wrote: I was reading this thread and I wanted to post some of the things that Keanu just posted. Why is it that you people always think inside the box that you live in and then try to use your information about the box to try and prove the box's origin? Why does God have to live inside a time and space (and everything else)? The very concept of time and space, the very definition, is something a creator would have created. The things you study are the rules that a creator would create. Infinite doesn't begin or end, it's infinite on both ends. Why would God have to be created?
If the starcraft computer AI gained conciousness, it would know the rules as to gather minerals, not let your base get destroyed, etc... Even if it knew everything about the game; even if he knew how the game starts with a load screen, it would not know anything about the world outside of starcraft or how starcraft was created. This is a poor analogy, but this is teamliquid forums.
Christianity has nothing to do with any of the rituals you mention. Christianity has no rituals and the only thing it asks is that to believe you are faultless (that Jesus has already died for you). How can you relate that with why people suffer or the wars in history?
I was not born a Christian, in fact I was born in a communist country. I go to a church that is just three office buildings (originally one), no fancy church architecture or anything. We don't have a pastor (brother offer to speak, or we'd have guest speakers), nobody gets paid, there is no collection plate and in fact the offering box is well unnoticeable.
Speaking about probability, the probability of something doesn't change if you've done it more than once. When you flip a coin and it is heads, it doesn't mean it is any less likely to be heads on the next flip. This only happens if you predict that two heads will land right after each other which is when two probabilities are mutliplied with each other. Think about entropy, why doesn't objects just leave towards one direction? The probability of atoms at some moment all moving in same direction is much greater than life being created, or the universe from nothing (since we're speaking about rules within the box). You're right about not knowing anything about what's outside the box. But all that's inside this so to speak 'box' of yours is all that is important to a person, and all he will ever have anything to do with in his life (if it wasn't the definition of this 'box' wouldn't be right). So why speculate about what's outside? for it must be something we cannot possibly begin to imagine. Why state there is a something called a creator, or God, while we have absolutely no clue? I know I can depend on the laws of physics in the world I live in because they're proven and I know it's real. But how could I ever dedicate my life to something that is highly speculative and not logical in any way, like the existence of a God? There are just too many explanations for why it's convenient for people to make up a 'God' character, and the proves of it's existence are none.
If what's in the box is all that these people cared for, they wouldn't be trying to disprove the "religious people" on this thread. As for speculation, I can't prove anything outside this world, but if it's a given that it is impossible for this world to have made itself, then the only other way is to consider that there are a set of rules we have not thought of. Like if you went back in time and told people to explain why rain fell, they would only answer in their own knowledge base. In reality, there were a set of laws in nature they never knew.
By following this example (which is proven time after time in the course of man, in which it can basically be a scientific law), we can assume that there has to be something else, whether it's a god or some second universe or something. What relgiion you believe in is not up to me. I'm not here to convert you. If you have an open mind, read the bible. Real christianity has no rituals, go read it, there are no strings attatched, but keep an open mind about it.
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Braavos36370 Posts
On May 31 2004 09:32 Keanu_Reaver wrote: ...atheism is a 100 year old fad, practically every man before then that has contributed to progression has had a religion, whether that religion was christianity or not doesn't matter
Galileo, Lincoln, Darwin, Franklin, Nietzsche, Edison... just to name a few.
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." --Nietzche
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Okay, this is how I'd defend those people that use faith as a weapon. After taking a leap of faith with an open mind, they experience God which develops faith. Others might have superior logic with people and out-argue them, but they have already experienced things. However, faith and trust in evolution is the same thing. If I go and argue with a slow person out on the streets and out argue them, most would still not believe.
Faith goes both ways, it doesn't only have to deal with religion.
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"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times ?! You stupid monkey!"
Thats Dickens, not Shakespeare. Tale of Two Cities to be exact.
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Braavos36370 Posts
unfortunately the only way that religious people can be disavowed of their faith is when they die. too bad when they cease to exist they won't be able to realize that they didn't go to heaven or hell or any other place.
anyone who wants to be religious, i suggest just throwing darts at a board labeled with different religions, including "lampshadism" and "superkalifragilisticexpialidoshim" because frankly those are just as likely to get you into "heaven".
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Braavos36370 Posts
On May 31 2004 11:25 I_are_n00b wrote: Okay, this is how I'd defend those people that use faith as a weapon. After taking a leap of faith with an open mind, they experience God which develops faith. Others might have superior logic with people and out-argue them, but they have already experienced things. However, faith and trust in evolution is the same thing. If I go and argue with a slow person out on the streets and out argue them, most would still not believe.
Faith goes both ways, it doesn't only have to deal with religion.
yeah, i have faith in gravity and faith in math, so 2+2=4. i pray to the math gods every night, and i plan on killing all infidels that cannot do arithmetic correctly. lets go invade a country that can't add and take their oil!
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