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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
On May 31 2004 11:20 Hot_Bid wrote: Galileo, Lincoln, Darwin, Franklin, Nietzsche, Edison... just to name a few. "Faith means not wanting to know what is true." --Nietzche No. galileo was condemned by the church for his theories, but he was still christian. darwin died a christian, despite his theories. | ||
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
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I_are_n00b
196 Posts
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
1. Insects produce quinones for tanning their cuticle. Quinones make them distasteful, so the insects evolve to produce more of them and to produce other defensive chemicals, including hydroquinones. 2. The insects evolve depressions for storing quinones and muscles for ejecting them onto their surface when threatened with being eaten. The depression becomes a reservoir with secretory glands supplying hydroquinones into it. This configuration exists in many beetles, including close relatives of bombardier beetles [Forsyth 1970]. 3. Hydrogen peroxide becomes mixed with the hydroquinones. Catalases and peroxidases appear along the output passage of the reservoir, ensuring that more quinones appear in the exuded product. 4. More catalases and peroxidases are produced, generating oxygen and producing a foamy discharge, as in the bombardier beetle Metrius contractus [Eisner et al. 2000]. 5. As the output passage becomes a hardened reaction chamber, still more catalases and peroxidases are produced, gradually becoming today's bombardier beetles. for those wanting the article i just read http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB310.html very interesting species though. Havent heard much about it before this discussion. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
edit: and since there is no reason to assume the law of excluded middle, i wont assume that the only two possibilities are creation and evolution. | ||
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exalted
United States3612 Posts
Anyway, these threads should be avoided becuase of the flame threads taht they quickly evolve to, I stayed with it for a bit, and then had to skip to the end. My major beef with religion is that some people start to take it too seriously, and in the worst cases in the Middle East, it starts to become violent. I mean, obviously we don't know the consequences of if they were god-less, but there are certainly enough problems today becuase of something like religion (people not depending on themselves,church people become pedofiles from sexual inexperience, etc.) Oh and what really pissed me off is that why did jesus have to reveal that he was God's son, why couldn't he have just kept his mouth shut and let people find out themselves? It was almost arrogance, and I'm sure if someone tried to act divine to me I'd beat him up, so. Further, his teachings. Love your brother, respect thy parents? I mean, is this stuff that only God's son could teach us? Are you joking me? Confucious, Siddartha, they didn't go spamming around they were holy, but their teachings are just as relevant. Someone please teach me on this matter please. | ||
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
One person said earlier that God should step in and help us along with our lives, but instead he chooses not to interfere. If he loves us so much why would he not help us out? It is better for us to learn things for ourselves. An analogy I read in angels and demons by Dan brown goes as follows. Suppose you are a father, you have an 8 year old child. Will you refuse to allow your child to skateboard? Surely a nice parent will allow his son to skateboard if he so pleases, even though he could fall and scrape himself. However, it is better for the child to learn for himself. God intends us to learn for ourselves and act on our own while on earth. He does not act directly. As for jesus, what is the point of him not telling? Let's suppose jesus is the son of god. He knows what is going to happen in his life, that he will be crucified. Everything he does works together smoothly. People hear he is the son of god, but the jews do not believe it is so, so they crucify him, and 2 days later see the miracle of him rising from the grave. Simple explanation. I am not religious, im agnostic (i think thats what you are trying to claim yourself to be). I acknowledge the fact that either creation or evolution (or another known or yet unknown possibility) could have occured, but that there is no way that I can find out what happened at this moment. However, every action of God and Jesus can be explained by either some other scripture or through simple logic. | ||
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Keanu_Reaver
Djibouti1432 Posts
On May 31 2004 12:35 exalted wrote: So, basically you're trying to use probability and science to prove taht someone who is not bound by the realm of science exists? It's really a matter of faith, I guess, and so you really can't convert people who aren't accepting or have even had a rough childhood or whatever. (I'm atheist btw, but I"m one of those I'm going to not sin, be good, so that if I do die, I'll still go to heaven if it exists [there's a word for this type of thinking but I forgot the term]. Anyway, these threads should be avoided becuase of the flame threads taht they quickly evolve to, I stayed with it for a bit, and then had to skip to the end. My major beef with religion is that some people start to take it too seriously, and in the worst cases in the Middle East, it starts to become violent. I mean, obviously we don't know the consequences of if they were god-less, but there are certainly enough problems today becuase of something like religion (people not depending on themselves,church people become pedofiles from sexual inexperience, etc.) Oh and what really pissed me off is that why did jesus have to reveal that he was God's son, why couldn't he have just kept his mouth shut and let people find out themselves? It was almost arrogance, and I'm sure if someone tried to act divine to me I'd beat him up, so. Further, his teachings. Love your brother, respect thy parents? I mean, is this stuff that only God's son could teach us? Are you joking me? Confucious, Siddartha, they didn't go spamming around they were holy, but their teachings are just as relevant. Someone please teach me on this matter please. about jesus: it was in line with the miracles he performed, he was the very literal start of christianity, for him to let people know he was god's son would help gain more followers to teach, which was his primary goal on earth...to teach. he was not arrogant or haughty, as shown by various times with his disciples where he would wash their feet, and again when he said not to praise him at all, that praise goes to his father. and i find its very interesting you talk about the problem you have with religion in using it to start wars and the such and then talk about jesus. a huge portion of jesus' ministry involved him ripping apart the organized religions (who said they worshipped God) who would use God for their own gain, and even those who would pray arrogantly he would chastise. God is not responsible nor is he behind those that would use religion in that way, and jesus made it quite clear. | ||
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Keanu_Reaver
Djibouti1432 Posts
On May 31 2004 12:52 BigBalls wrote: There is no point in questioning acts in the bible or things that the bible says. One person said earlier that God should step in and help us along with our lives, but instead he chooses not to interfere. If he loves us so much why would he not help us out? It is better for us to learn things for ourselves. An analogy I read in angels and demons by Dan brown goes as follows. Suppose you are a father, you have an 8 year old child. Will you refuse to allow your child to skateboard? Surely a nice parent will allow his son to skateboard if he so pleases, even though he could fall and scrape himself. However, it is better for the child to learn for himself. God intends us to learn for ourselves and act on our own while on earth. He does not act directly. As for jesus, what is the point of him not telling? Let's suppose jesus is the son of god. He knows what is going to happen in his life, that he will be crucified. Everything he does works together smoothly. People hear he is the son of god, but the jews do not believe it is so, so they crucify him, and 2 days later see the miracle of him rising from the grave. Simple explanation. I am not religious, im agnostic (i think thats what you are trying to claim yourself to be). I acknowledge the fact that either creation or evolution (or another known or yet unknown possibility) could have occured, but that there is no way that I can find out what happened at this moment. However, every action of God and Jesus can be explained by either some other scripture or through simple logic. About God not interfering, thats pretty much correct...and what happened with Job is a pretty good example of why he allows it to be that way, but it goes a bit further. Something called "the time of the nations" started with the destruction of the temple by the babylonians, and essentially is God simply taking a back seat to everything and letting us live as we want, offering help when we ask. While this time has ended, much of what it was still lingers (and then some), it goes very in depth and has alot to do with satan, i could probably explain it and give loads of interesting info but it would take me about an hour (or more) to get it all together and explain it, has a very interesting prophecy along with it too. | ||
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AeroGx
United States37 Posts
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kewlsunman
United States131 Posts
More interesting, however, is how exclusive religions become. For instance, Christianity: Old Testament deals with the Middle Eastern people. New Testament talks of the Romans. That's about it. So yeah, Europeans are descendants of the Romans and Americans are descendents of the Europeans, but what about the rest of the world? Where do the Asians fall in here? Africans? Aborigines of various other countries? What I mean is, supposing this God is omnipotent and omniscient over the ENTIRE universe, I wonder why there is no mention of the rest of the world, not to mention the possible alien races, etc. Simply put, religion, at least organized religion, is not so far off from science in that it can be seen to be an attempted explanation for the world--of course one will argue that religion is SO far off from science because religion is the word from a divine level whereas science is the creation of man, but bear with me. As I've pointed out, the religions and creeds of a certain people really only succeeds in explaining the creation of said people. Obviously in the texts it says that ALL men were created, but then somehow only those that existed in the same region are recorded. It appears to be that religion is a regional phenomenon then, which of course, would deviate from the idea of a universal god. This is not to say that a God or a higher power never existed. From a socio-political perspective, it appears that perhaps creation did occur and indeed occurred for all humans. But seeing as how the similarities between religious doctrine begins to fall apart after the creation, one may argue that perhaps that was the end of divine intervention. So basically what I'm saying is it's possible to not believe in God, and yet still believe in creation. Or rather, not to believe in an organized religion, and still believe in God. -ksm | ||
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secrtagent
United States119 Posts
On May 31 2004 08:58 Keanu_Reaver wrote: then why is christianity a 2000+ year religion while the greek religion lasted only in their time The greek religion lasted 1700+ years according to this timeline http://www.yasou.org/ancient/dates.html . I believe that the greek religion only ended because the greek people were conquered by the romans. I may be wrong. I am not a history buff. But the point is, the greek religion did not end because someone just said "oh this is stupid", the greeks believed in their religion until the end. Thus, can you not admit the possibility that if the christian people were conquered or faded away...the religion of christianity could be ridiculed in the future? The idea that christianity will die anytime soon is very unlikely due to its popularity and simple ideas---live with respect to god and get into heaven. But there is always a possibility. I think people who ONLY believe in the existence of god and people who ONLY believe there is no god, are close minded. I am more atheist than anything, but I am willing to accept the idea of a God/Ultimate Creater as being a possibility. To both sides (atheists and relgious people): Only with an open mind, can one have tolerance. And tolerance does not mean you accept/believe either point of view, it just means you tolerate the idea because it is possible. | ||
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0_0
United States2090 Posts
Question for Atheists: If there was no god, how was the universe even created in the first place? I mean if you go back long enough - pre big bang, there shouldn't have been just "stuff" laying around that eventually became planets and big bang, etc. SOMETHING/GOD HAD to have created it since technically you can't create something out of nothing, well without divine intervention or some new science we've all never heard of. Question for Christians: Who made God, don't say he was there just to begin with. Edit: Anyone who can come up with a logical answer gets a cookie ^^. | ||
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United States43 Posts
Watching over this planet That we have turned bad. His son named Jesus Died to save us from Satan And his influence. Jesus will return To eliminate evil And bring us his peace. ~Haiku | ||
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Ryan307 :)
United States1289 Posts
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MeloDY
31 Posts
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kewlsunman
United States131 Posts
On May 31 2004 12:52 BigBalls wrote: An analogy I read in angels and demons by Dan brown goes as follows. Suppose you are a father, you have an 8 year old child. Will you refuse to allow your child to skateboard? Surely a nice parent will allow his son to skateboard if he so pleases, even though he could fall and scrape himself. However, it is better for the child to learn for himself. God intends us to learn for ourselves and act on our own while on earth. He does not act directly. The analogy falls apart however, because the father cannot manipulate the ground to NOT scrape the son. And if he could, I'm sure he would. In that case, there would be no sense in learning anything because nothing is constant. If the son wants to do drugs, the father could simply take away all the negative aspects of drugs and allow his son to have fun. Basically, this analogy suggests that God has no dominion over the physical world and inevitably HAS TO, for whatever reason, allow his creation to be subjected to the elements, other humans, etc. Which would suggest that he is not God afterall.... And as to AeroGx's most recent post quoting from the Bible, all that shows me is that the authors of the Bible were very comprehensive. Everything's so vague that it's very easy to read anything you want into their statements. And they're so comprehensive that it covers pretty much every scenario you can think of. For instance, Heaven and Hell, how much more comprehensive can you be then that, and yet still be so vague. There's no proof for Heaven or Hell, and since we can't comprehend it, we can't question it. I mean, how idiot-proof can you get? Though, doesn't tell me a thing about Heaven, Hell, or God. -ksm | ||
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GoSexyPerli
United States1072 Posts
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kornu
40 Posts
i don't think that most of the people who posted tried to convince blievers/non-believers that they're wrong... they're just stating their opinions, i don't think that anyone is expecting to convert anyone. religion, as i have said, is not what you think it is, it's not what lies written in books, not what some lunatics preach.. religion is what you see on tv, what priests tell you, what they do. religion is a man praying in the church on sunday mornings and beating his wife and kids while drunk on saturdays. religion is the red cross in somalia. religion is the inquisition. religion is muslims not eating pork. i think too many people look to religion as if it was a personal, spiritual experience, and i think they are wrong. in the same way, morals are not some abstract concepts, they refer more to the scrutinable part of life, not the unseen. and god is not just some creator, 'a' god, or anything else. god is strictly related to christianity, and it has some unique properties depicted in the holy books. AND, in case you didn't know already, there can only be ONE TRUE confession. it's as absolute as it gets. and they do have rites, the real christians are those you see on gospel tv, not the ones who sit at home and just believe in god. you may disagree with me, but remember this is just my opinion. i'm not claiming i hold all the answers, i'm not explaining how life works to you. i'm just stating my opinion. if i knew for sure that what i say is the absolute truth, u'd think i'd be a bit more vocal, don't you? and there would be a good chance you would know me from tv, or u'd think i'd kill you for refusing to acknowledge the truth... i just hope i'm not gonna get any 'everyone's a philosopher' bullshit just for having an opinion from numbskulls who don't even bother to counter my arguments in order to justify their sarcasm. as a side note, although i claim to be an atheist, i have no problems with religious people. most of the people i know are that way. and i would be just as glad to see someone escaping religion in atheism as a christian would be to see someone join the ark. it's just that i don't find it right that people allow zealots to spread their propaganda in schools and on tv. i mean, religion is not a club you join, advertising it seems to me totally contrary to its norms. but hey, maybe i'm just wrong. oh, and hell is not a pagan notion, i've seen a booklet published by some revered monk that treated the matter of the customs one has to pass in order to get into heaven. sayonara for now. | ||
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. I am not trying to discourage religion... it is a very good guide to life and many people find comfort in believing in an afterlife. But one should take religion as just that... a guide to life... not the be all and end all of everything.
