rank 1 diamond player here. Seems that every game where i don't end the zerg by midgame, and it evolves into late macro war.. he starts massing ultralisks and they just tears my army to shreds. Even a Thor/Marauder army gets absolutely destroyed against mass ultralisk. Maybe remove their immunity to stun again so Thor's can actually do something vs them. Are battle cruisers really the only option?

Antisocialmunky

United States5912 Posts

August 01 2010 04:07 GMT

That's odd, that should kill ultras decently. What do you mean mass ultralisk? Like non-stop only ultralisks?

PS.

Are we still making

Romania

jokes, TL?

yrba1

United States325 Posts

August 01 2010 04:09 GMT

If he masses ultras, then you best start massing banshees and with some vikings if he has air support. Terran pretty much hard counters everything, they're just less mobile.

The_Pacifist

United States540 Posts

August 01 2010 04:10 GMT

Ironically, many people here on TL believe that Terran is waaay overpowered against Zerg as things are now.

If Ultras get nerfed, then so should siege tanks.

But, to address the actual question at hand, a zerg's advantage is its incredible ability to macro, take plenty of expansions, and quickly replenish its army. If you're getting rolled over by mass ultra, then you didn't do enough damage to the zerg's economy in the early and mid game to stand a chance.

It's basically asking, "The enemy got 16 battlecruisers against me. How do I counter that?" Well, if the enemy got that many BCs, then you've already lost the game beforehand. You counter it before it ever gets to happen by wreaking havoc with your tanks in the midgame and making the Zerg ragequit.

huyNh

Canada366 Posts

August 01 2010 04:10 GMT

it seems BCs are the only option. i don't think there is a terran ground composition that can beat ultras at critical mass. the immunity and splash is just insane.

Saracen

United States5139 Posts

August 01 2010 04:10 GMT

Reps? Because it sounds like you're just behind a lot in macro.

PrinceXizor

United States17713 Posts

August 01 2010 04:11 GMT

Banshees do alot more damage to ultras than BCs. BCs are kind of pathetic vs Ultras unless you are constantly yamatoing. BCs lose 50-70% of their damage to Ultralisk armor where banshees lose less than half (and attack faster and require overseers which can be countered by vikings), remember zerg does not have much air superiority at all, also ghosts do pretty well vs ultras w/ snipe and the lack of modifier means ultras deal minimal damage back. but yeah air control is really key, using vikings to murder overlords to keep supply down to limit the number of ultras and then wipe them up with banshees (also remember banshees 2 shot larva too).

I play Zerg btw.

AbsentLover

Romania84 Posts

August 01 2010 04:12 GMT

haha Romania jokes? humor me :D

Calamity

Canada161 Posts

August 01 2010 04:13 GMT

Banshees tear up ultralisks pretty bad but if the ultras get 5 armor, BCs and banshees don't seem to do a lot of damage to them anymore.

Jermstuddog

United States2231 Posts

August 01 2010 04:16 GMT

#10

I so want to do the typical "its fine cuz thors/siege tanks are too strong for the first 90% of the game" but that serves no point in think-tanking things through.

In a way, that is the proper response though. Ultras and thors are the same price, 1 250mm = 1 dead ultra. If you are getting out macro'd, that is a wholly different problem.

If we could see a replay that would be great, but shooting blindly I would have to say more hellions oddly enough.

You need some cheap units to get in the way while your marauders/thor pound them from a safe distance.

Standing marauders toe-to-toe with ultras will most likely break even, and that's not taking lings into consideration.

Just my blind thought.

Bibbit

Canada5377 Posts

August 01 2010 04:20 GMT

#11

No. No they're not. What you're seeing as "too strong" is actually zerg just not being underpowered and unable to beat a terran. Ultras are needed to not lose (or broodlords but whatever). It's the same way I feel about Colossus ZvP. They seem overpowered because they destroy all your units but toss really needs them or they'll die.

Edit: Typo.

NonFactor

Sweden698 Posts

August 01 2010 04:22 GMT

#12

Rank means shizzle, rating is where it's at. My friend who has played 5 days is currently rank 1, mainly because he has nobody else in his division.

Now I don't see this possible, other he REALLY outmacroed you or you literally didn't upgrade at all. If you got a sizeable marauder / thor army, it should rape Ultralisks. Need an replay to judge properly.

dybydx

Canada1764 Posts

August 01 2010 04:23 GMT

#13

i thought marauders counter ultras pretty well unless Z got backups.

of course if Z manage to get a surround on T, Z usually wins no matter what.

AbsentLover

Romania84 Posts

August 01 2010 04:26 GMT

#14

Didn't save any reps of this, but i'm sure it will happen again real soon (self fulfilling prophecy perhaps?), so i'll link it here.

P.S. i only lost to this on maps that favor zerg fast expo, where i'm unable to fast siege push his expansion (metalopolis, scrap yard). I'm forced to expo myself cuz of this, and the whole thing degenerates into a macro war, inevitably, ultras join the party in huge numbers cuz of zerg amazing ability to switch tech in an instant.

Also, i don't mean this to sound as a whine, i probably have 75% win ratio against zerg, and the volume of games is too low to make a precise statement if ultras are too strong or not. Just wanted to brainstorm..

Dave[9]

United States2365 Posts

August 01 2010 04:36 GMT

#15

On August 01 2010 13:26 AbsentLover wrote:
Didn't save any reps of this, but i'm sure it will happen again real soon (self fulfilling prophecy perhaps?), so i'll link it here.

P.S. i only lost to this on maps that favor zerg fast expo, where i'm unable to fast siege push his expansion (metalopolis, scrap yard). I'm forced to expo myself cuz of this, and the whole thing degenerates into a macro war, inevitably, ultras join the party in huge numbers cuz of zerg amazing ability to switch tech in an instant.

Also, i don't mean this to sound as a whine, i probably have 75% win ratio against zerg, and the volume of games is too low to make a precise statement if ultras are too strong or not. Just wanted to brainstorm..

This is probably the first times I've heard people say Ultras are too strong. Reps or no dice imo.

BTW, Zergs want it to become a Macro war, because they know their late game units will usually triumph over yours. Don't let it become a macro war and you'll be okay. Seriously a dream game for me is when a Terran doesn't do anything and just lets me take the map.

Jermstuddog

United States2231 Posts

August 01 2010 04:37 GMT

#16

Marauders are good vs ultralisks. It just so happens that ultralisks are good vs marauders as well. And lings (which accompany ultra 90% of the time) are awesome vs marauders. So overall, no, marauders by themselves are not a suitable counter. Marauders with something in front of them are though.

DreXxiN

United States494 Posts

August 01 2010 04:37 GMT

#17

Hmm..I think you are not upgrading honestly lol.

koppik

United States676 Posts

August 01 2010 04:41 GMT

#18

Marauder/hellion/thor is good. Hellions obviously do zero damage against ultras, but they have a big unit radius, so they tend to hold ultralisks up before they get to your armored units. Plus, they'll kill the lings.

RebirthOfLeGenD

USA5860 Posts

August 01 2010 04:42 GMT

#19

Why is anyone even responding to this? He put Zero effort into his thread and the first line is "Rank 1 diamond player here" as if anyone cares or that holds true merit as if he claim should be taken as 100% true based on a single line.