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United States22154 Posts
On July 08 2010 03:07 ghosthunter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:04 Santriell wrote:On July 08 2010 02:58 ghosthunter wrote:
So your reasoning is that Blizzard should listen to you because you like to perpetuate illegal activities that destroy the value of their work, or would actively pursue and obtain these?
My reasoning is that I already HAVE a criminal record (public mind you) and I absolutely DO NOT WANT every random retard on internet to be able to associate ingame name with the latter. If keeping my privacy means defrauding them, so be it. I'm not in any way shape or form am going to PAY a company, and allow every other idiot, to SPY on me. Because this forum change forces you to reveal your name to everyone? Or you could obligate not to post and do other forums and things, since I'm relatively sure you think the forums are trash too? Blizzard's not forcing you to do anything in this instance. Pirating the game because of game forums is a lame excuse, because it doesn't make sense. If you've got a problem with the forums, then create your own forums or participate in another one that already exists. See the irony in that? It's that you already are.
Yes but the wonderful thing is that blizzard insists that this is for the good of the community, also this isn't just about the game forums as has been stated earlier its about the disregard this shows for blizzards customer base and where it is going from here, I'll repeat what I said earlier, how long until they decide that to reduce trolling and BM in game you will be required to display your full name?
And Blizzard is forcing you to do something, its forcing you to avoid a form of customer service (in the form of tech support forums) to preserve your privacy.
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On July 08 2010 03:09 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:05 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 03:02 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:56 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 02:49 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:45 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 01:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On July 07 2010 22:32 Tray wrote:
Based on the comments in here I've never been more convinced this is a great idea. If the retards on here who say they won't buy the game because they can't troll the official forums without their name being there are being honest (most of them aren't), then the forums will actually be a useful place to visit from time to time.
It's the same illogical retards that are arguing against their names being posted that are the ones ruining the forums. The two groups probably have nearly identical overlap. .... Are you trolling? At risk of sounding just contrary, I also think the RealID is a great thing. Here at TL in our own rulebook we say that we value reputation, particularly as it is attached to a name. By requiring RealID, Blizz is just taking the same step. As a lot of the Blues have made clear on the WoW forums, I think they understand exactly the impact the requirement will have and are completely OK with 75% of the forum posters not returning (and damn, can you blame them?). In videogames and on the internet as a whole, posters have always been able to hide behind the veil of anonymity- in what other type of community or group would you submit a completely bogus name and expect this to be legitimate? For example, I personally belong to the ADK 46'ers organization. If any other member in the community had a problem with me, they'd have access to any of my personal information, including name, address, phone number etc. So far I've never had any problem, and by and large, people who belong to the billions of other offline groups and organizations haven't either. This idea that anonymity is a right is limited solely to the internet, and honestly, I don't think there's a single poster on here who would argue the fact that this anonymity is the driving force behind the internet's culture. Seeing this barrier begin to fall is a great step in my eyes. They're not just leaving the forums, they're quitting the game (and many are also going to cancel their SC2 preorder). The account cancellation service for WoW was lagged to hell for 5 hours straight. No change in the history of WoW has ever been met with this much resistance. This really isn't evidence of anything, however, as yesterday was also a maintenance day anyway. Their entire servers tend to be hosted in the same place, so on maintenance day when trolling increases to unprecedented levels, the whole website lags. It's been the case every single maintenance Tuesday. And every time, people claim "OMG PEOPLE ARE FLOCKING TO QUIT!" Because you know. You clearly have these numbers and aren't just wildly speculating without actual facts. This wasn't on Tuesday - it was very early morning today. Obviously you haven't been reading any major sites like digg/reddit, the posts here, or more importantly, the actual WoW site itself. I've actually read every post in this thread because I'm fairly interested in this discussion. Thank you for presuming something without evidence again though. It's pretty classy and very intelligent and makes me respect you as an individual  And I've been a WoW player since day 1 release, thus I've gotten to see the forum crash and burn, everyone crying about invasion of privacy due to armory release and how there will be mass exodus, and everything else. Once again, the WoW Forum community represents such a small percent of the customer base, that even if any of them actually followed through with what they said, which they wont' because they wouldn't be able to troll anymore and heaven forbid they lose that outlet (OH WAIT! Maybe this change will change that...). I agree. Haven't people ever joined a gym or something like that? You give them your real name. You give them your address. You interact with plenty of people (or only a few if thats your thing), but during all of it, people have all the same information that anyone on the forums would be able to get. Having the same accountability when participating in an online community versus an offline community shouldn't be a problem for anyone.
Does your Gym have 15 million people? In an effort to NOT repeat what been said, as someone who has been here arguing since this thread started, I'll just link appropriate posts
On July 07 2010 06:09 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 05:55 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On July 07 2010 05:53 RonNation wrote:
It's absurd that people find the need to hide their names. I could not agree more. Be proud of who you are. On July 07 2010 05:54 Integra wrote:
This must be the most unpopular idea Blizzard has came up with in a long time. Search "chat channels" It's not a matter of pride or people hiding who they are. We don't have to deal with this anonymity problem generally in our real lives. Each place we go is compartmentalized generally with relatively little overlap. For example, I can go out to the bar with friends and we have our conversations, our modes of speak, and a shared level of knowledge that we feel comfortable sharing. We may go to our therapist and have a different set of conversations and shared knowledge. We then go to work, to the gym, to a store, etc. The issue with the internet is that these places aren't compartmentalized. They're cross-referenceable. A name is one of the ways to draw together all the threads. The anonymity on the Internet allows us to take back some of that privacy that the Internet is inherently not designed to provide. This doesn't mean that people should misrepresent themselves wherever they choose to associate, but it does mean that I shouldn't have to use information that unnecessarily connects my different associations online. In a future Internet that behaves this way, should someone need to fear when they go post on some medical forum or legal forum for advice and guidance, and then that gets dredged up when someone posts on a discussion board or another gaming board? Just because someone knows your name, doesn't end your life. Clearly it doesn't. It doesn't guarantee that your identity gets stolen. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it's a lot more threatening than people give it credit for. It's just a sign of the time, perhaps. In an age where the day after someone like Joe the Plumber appears on the scene, Internet sleuths can find out if he owes back taxes, ever had any tickets, whether he's a real plumber, etc and cast serious aspersion on his character and his life, do we really want to turn a blind eye while companies like Blizzard help with this? Think about the politicians who end up having to drop out of races because of something they wrote in college. Politicians and celebrities have to go through therapy and training to deal with the increased scrutiny and decreased privacy that they typically have. Attaching our personally identifiable information to things we do online is just one step towards making that the norm for everybody. The answer to this is persistent aliases. Let me choose how I want to be called, but make me stick to it and not arbitrarily change that. That's fair. Now, I'm accountable for what I write, but I have no fear that what I say no matter how innocuous can be linked back to something else. If someone wants to write in a thread about Gay Gaming or something like that, they don't have to be worried that that gets traced back to their facebook, to their work, or wherever. There're far larger philosophical and practical considerations to this than just the exact repercussions of Blizzard posting your name next to your whine about TvZ balance. Sometimes you have to look one step farther on these things.
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On July 08 2010 03:11 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:09 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:05 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 03:02 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:56 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 02:49 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:45 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 01:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On July 07 2010 22:32 Tray wrote:
Based on the comments in here I've never been more convinced this is a great idea. If the retards on here who say they won't buy the game because they can't troll the official forums without their name being there are being honest (most of them aren't), then the forums will actually be a useful place to visit from time to time.
It's the same illogical retards that are arguing against their names being posted that are the ones ruining the forums. The two groups probably have nearly identical overlap. .... Are you trolling? At risk of sounding just contrary, I also think the RealID is a great thing. Here at TL in our own rulebook we say that we value reputation, particularly as it is attached to a name. By requiring RealID, Blizz is just taking the same step. As a lot of the Blues have made clear on the WoW forums, I think they understand exactly the impact the requirement will have and are completely OK with 75% of the forum posters not returning (and damn, can you blame them?). In videogames and on the internet as a whole, posters have always been able to hide behind the veil of anonymity- in what other type of community or group would you submit a completely bogus name and expect this to be legitimate? For example, I personally belong to the ADK 46'ers organization. If any other member in the community had a problem with me, they'd have access to any of my personal information, including name, address, phone number etc. So far I've never had any problem, and by and large, people who belong to the billions of other offline groups and organizations haven't either. This idea that anonymity is a right is limited solely to the internet, and honestly, I don't think there's a single poster on here who would argue the fact that this anonymity is the driving force behind the internet's culture. Seeing this barrier begin to fall is a great step in my eyes. They're not just leaving the forums, they're quitting the game (and many are also going to cancel their SC2 preorder). The account cancellation service for WoW was lagged to hell for 5 hours straight. No change in the history of WoW has ever been met with this much resistance. This really isn't evidence of anything, however, as yesterday was also a maintenance day anyway. Their entire servers tend to be hosted in the same place, so on maintenance day when trolling increases to unprecedented levels, the whole website lags. It's been the case every single maintenance Tuesday. And every time, people claim "OMG PEOPLE ARE FLOCKING TO QUIT!" Because you know. You clearly have these numbers and aren't just wildly speculating without actual facts. This wasn't on Tuesday - it was very early morning today. Obviously you haven't been reading any major sites like digg/reddit, the posts here, or more importantly, the actual WoW site itself. I've actually read every post in this thread because I'm fairly interested in this discussion. Thank you for presuming something without evidence again though. It's pretty classy and very intelligent and makes me respect you as an individual And I've been a WoW player since day 1 release, thus I've gotten to see the forum crash and burn, everyone crying about invasion of privacy due to armory release and how there will be mass exodus, and everything else. Once again, the WoW Forum community represents such a small percent of the customer base, that even if any of them actually followed through with what they said, which they wont' because they wouldn't be able to troll anymore and heaven forbid they lose that outlet (OH WAIT! Maybe this change will change that...). I agree. Haven't people ever joined a gym or something like that? You give them your real name. You give them your address. You interact with plenty of people (or only a few if thats your thing), but during all of it, people have all the same information that anyone on the forums would be able to get. Having the same accountability when participating in an online community versus an offline community shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Ahh, no. You may give the gym your name, ect, but not everyone in the gym. You can choose to give them your name, a fake name, or no name at all.
Now I can't speak for you, but personally, and pretty much anyone I've ever met, has never had a problem giving their real name to someone they meet in that kind of context. They're all pleasantly psychopath-stalker free.
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On July 08 2010 03:11 Santriell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:07 ghosthunter wrote:
Because this forum change forces you to reveal your name to everyone? Or you could obligate not to post and do other forums and things, since I'm relatively sure you think the forums are trash too?
It does if you ever HAVE to go to them for tournaments or whatever random shtick blizzvision is up to. Show nested quote +
Blizzard's not forcing you to do anything in this instance. Pirating the game because of game forums is a lame excuse, because it doesn't make sense. If you've got a problem with the forums, then create your own forums or participate in another one that already exists.
See the irony in that? It's that you already are.
Fanboy. Look up gregarism while you're on your way to distribute yellow stars with the happy people at blizz'
One thing that fails to convince me in all case is loose analogies, in almost all cases. To be honest, I don't really like the gym analogy that supports my opinion above me either.
You are comparing THE HOLOCAUST to requiring real names on the forum?
You are comparing the killing of tens of millions of people to requiring you to use your name on the forums?
Really? You REALLY think that's a valid comparison?
Because if you do, then our conversation is done, and you have clearly won sir.
Edit: Just as a general note of my point, look at the posts above and below mine, which just detail whether or not a gym membership is a valid analogy (which tbh, it's not really, but very few things are). These aren't really productive to the discussion of the actual problem at hand, they're discussions of why the analogy doesn't fit the model >.<
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On July 08 2010 03:13 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:09 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:05 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 03:02 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:56 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 02:49 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:45 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 01:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On July 07 2010 22:32 Tray wrote:
Based on the comments in here I've never been more convinced this is a great idea. If the retards on here who say they won't buy the game because they can't troll the official forums without their name being there are being honest (most of them aren't), then the forums will actually be a useful place to visit from time to time.
It's the same illogical retards that are arguing against their names being posted that are the ones ruining the forums. The two groups probably have nearly identical overlap. .... Are you trolling? At risk of sounding just contrary, I also think the RealID is a great thing. Here at TL in our own rulebook we say that we value reputation, particularly as it is attached to a name. By requiring RealID, Blizz is just taking the same step. As a lot of the Blues have made clear on the WoW forums, I think they understand exactly the impact the requirement will have and are completely OK with 75% of the forum posters not returning (and damn, can you blame them?). In videogames and on the internet as a whole, posters have always been able to hide behind the veil of anonymity- in what other type of community or group would you submit a completely bogus name and expect this to be legitimate? For example, I personally belong to the ADK 46'ers organization. If any other member in the community had a problem with me, they'd have access to any of my personal information, including name, address, phone number etc. So far I've never had any problem, and by and large, people who belong to the billions of other offline groups and organizations haven't either. This idea that anonymity is a right is limited solely to the internet, and honestly, I don't think there's a single poster on here who would argue the fact that this anonymity is the driving force behind the internet's culture. Seeing this barrier begin to fall is a great step in my eyes. They're not just leaving the forums, they're quitting the game (and many are also going to cancel their SC2 preorder). The account cancellation service for WoW was lagged to hell for 5 hours straight. No change in the history of WoW has ever been met with this much resistance. This really isn't evidence of anything, however, as yesterday was also a maintenance day anyway. Their entire servers tend to be hosted in the same place, so on maintenance day when trolling increases to unprecedented levels, the whole website lags. It's been the case every single maintenance Tuesday. And every time, people claim "OMG PEOPLE ARE FLOCKING TO QUIT!" Because you know. You clearly have these numbers and aren't just wildly speculating without actual facts. This wasn't on Tuesday - it was very early morning today. Obviously you haven't been reading any major sites like digg/reddit, the posts here, or more importantly, the actual WoW site itself. I've actually read every post in this thread because I'm fairly interested in this discussion. Thank you for presuming something without evidence again though. It's pretty classy and very intelligent and makes me respect you as an individual And I've been a WoW player since day 1 release, thus I've gotten to see the forum crash and burn, everyone crying about invasion of privacy due to armory release and how there will be mass exodus, and everything else. Once again, the WoW Forum community represents such a small percent of the customer base, that even if any of them actually followed through with what they said, which they wont' because they wouldn't be able to troll anymore and heaven forbid they lose that outlet (OH WAIT! Maybe this change will change that...). I agree. Haven't people ever joined a gym or something like that? You give them your real name. You give them your address. You interact with plenty of people (or only a few if thats your thing), but during all of it, people have all the same information that anyone on the forums would be able to get. Having the same accountability when participating in an online community versus an offline community shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Does your Gym have 15 million people? In an effort to NOT repeat what been said, as someone who has been here arguing since this thread started, I'll just link appropriate posts Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 06:09 Takkara wrote:On July 07 2010 05:55 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On July 07 2010 05:53 RonNation wrote:
It's absurd that people find the need to hide their names. I could not agree more. Be proud of who you are. On July 07 2010 05:54 Integra wrote:
This must be the most unpopular idea Blizzard has came up with in a long time. Search "chat channels" It's not a matter of pride or people hiding who they are. We don't have to deal with this anonymity problem generally in our real lives. Each place we go is compartmentalized generally with relatively little overlap. For example, I can go out to the bar with friends and we have our conversations, our modes of speak, and a shared level of knowledge that we feel comfortable sharing. We may go to our therapist and have a different set of conversations and shared knowledge. We then go to work, to the gym, to a store, etc. The issue with the internet is that these places aren't compartmentalized. They're cross-referenceable. A name is one of the ways to draw together all the threads. The anonymity on the Internet allows us to take back some of that privacy that the Internet is inherently not designed to provide. This doesn't mean that people should misrepresent themselves wherever they choose to associate, but it does mean that I shouldn't have to use information that unnecessarily connects my different associations online. In a future Internet that behaves this way, should someone need to fear when they go post on some medical forum or legal forum for advice and guidance, and then that gets dredged up when someone posts on a discussion board or another gaming board? Just because someone knows your name, doesn't end your life. Clearly it doesn't. It doesn't guarantee that your identity gets stolen. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it's a lot more threatening than people give it credit for. It's just a sign of the time, perhaps. In an age where the day after someone like Joe the Plumber appears on the scene, Internet sleuths can find out if he owes back taxes, ever had any tickets, whether he's a real plumber, etc and cast serious aspersion on his character and his life, do we really want to turn a blind eye while companies like Blizzard help with this? Think about the politicians who end up having to drop out of races because of something they wrote in college. Politicians and celebrities have to go through therapy and training to deal with the increased scrutiny and decreased privacy that they typically have. Attaching our personally identifiable information to things we do online is just one step towards making that the norm for everybody. The answer to this is persistent aliases. Let me choose how I want to be called, but make me stick to it and not arbitrarily change that. That's fair. Now, I'm accountable for what I write, but I have no fear that what I say no matter how innocuous can be linked back to something else. If someone wants to write in a thread about Gay Gaming or something like that, they don't have to be worried that that gets traced back to their facebook, to their work, or wherever. There're far larger philosophical and practical considerations to this than just the exact repercussions of Blizzard posting your name next to your whine about TvZ balance. Sometimes you have to look one step farther on these things.
But the ability of people to tie those disjoint realms together has always been there- the fact that it isn't a problem in real life is exactly why it's not going to be that big a problem on the internet- people just don't care enough once the novelty has worn off.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 08 2010 03:13 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:11 Myles wrote:On July 08 2010 03:09 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:05 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 03:02 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:56 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 02:49 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:45 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 01:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On July 07 2010 22:32 Tray wrote:
Based on the comments in here I've never been more convinced this is a great idea. If the retards on here who say they won't buy the game because they can't troll the official forums without their name being there are being honest (most of them aren't), then the forums will actually be a useful place to visit from time to time.
It's the same illogical retards that are arguing against their names being posted that are the ones ruining the forums. The two groups probably have nearly identical overlap. .... Are you trolling? At risk of sounding just contrary, I also think the RealID is a great thing. Here at TL in our own rulebook we say that we value reputation, particularly as it is attached to a name. By requiring RealID, Blizz is just taking the same step. As a lot of the Blues have made clear on the WoW forums, I think they understand exactly the impact the requirement will have and are completely OK with 75% of the forum posters not returning (and damn, can you blame them?). In videogames and on the internet as a whole, posters have always been able to hide behind the veil of anonymity- in what other type of community or group would you submit a completely bogus name and expect this to be legitimate? For example, I personally belong to the ADK 46'ers organization. If any other member in the community had a problem with me, they'd have access to any of my personal information, including name, address, phone number etc. So far I've never had any problem, and by and large, people who belong to the billions of other offline groups and organizations haven't either. This idea that anonymity is a right is limited solely to the internet, and honestly, I don't think there's a single poster on here who would argue the fact that this anonymity is the driving force behind the internet's culture. Seeing this barrier begin to fall is a great step in my eyes. They're not just leaving the forums, they're quitting the game (and many are also going to cancel their SC2 preorder). The account cancellation service for WoW was lagged to hell for 5 hours straight. No change in the history of WoW has ever been met with this much resistance. This really isn't evidence of anything, however, as yesterday was also a maintenance day anyway. Their entire servers tend to be hosted in the same place, so on maintenance day when trolling increases to unprecedented levels, the whole website lags. It's been the case every single maintenance Tuesday. And every time, people claim "OMG PEOPLE ARE FLOCKING TO QUIT!" Because you know. You clearly have these numbers and aren't just wildly speculating without actual facts. This wasn't on Tuesday - it was very early morning today. Obviously you haven't been reading any major sites like digg/reddit, the posts here, or more importantly, the actual WoW site itself. I've actually read every post in this thread because I'm fairly interested in this discussion. Thank you for presuming something without evidence again though. It's pretty classy and very intelligent and makes me respect you as an individual And I've been a WoW player since day 1 release, thus I've gotten to see the forum crash and burn, everyone crying about invasion of privacy due to armory release and how there will be mass exodus, and everything else. Once again, the WoW Forum community represents such a small percent of the customer base, that even if any of them actually followed through with what they said, which they wont' because they wouldn't be able to troll anymore and heaven forbid they lose that outlet (OH WAIT! Maybe this change will change that...). I agree. Haven't people ever joined a gym or something like that? You give them your real name. You give them your address. You interact with plenty of people (or only a few if thats your thing), but during all of it, people have all the same information that anyone on the forums would be able to get. Having the same accountability when participating in an online community versus an offline community shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Ahh, no. You may give the gym your name, ect, but not everyone in the gym. You can choose to give them your name, a fake name, or no name at all. Now I can't speak for you, but personally, and pretty much anyone I've ever met, has never had a problem giving their real name to someone they meet in that kind of context. They're all pleasantly psychopath-stalker free.
That's not the point. In a gym, you might talk to a few people and no one else has a clue who you are. On a forum, any random person on the internet, not just forum member, can read what you wrote. Your conversations in a gym aren't broadcast over the whole internet.
EDIT; I also generally don't announce my full name when introducing myself to people - usually just my first name.
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Accountability is a matter of law, not half-baked moderators trying to be just that by forcing you to hand over your personal information.
And come on; Nobody dig that up already ? First facebook, then the real name.... And then what ? This is a pure vivendi-style operation to compile consumer information and re-sell the lists to advertisers.
Add to that the future UN & DMCA laws that are bound to be coming in 3-5 years about how "people must be tracked online" and you have a pretty good idea of who's going to be the guinea pig collaborator...
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"Hire more moderators? Screw that we'll just let the community know where the other person lives" - some Blizzard executive.
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On July 08 2010 03:15 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:13 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:11 Myles wrote:On July 08 2010 03:09 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:05 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 03:02 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:56 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 02:49 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:45 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 01:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
[quote]
.... Are you trolling? At risk of sounding just contrary, I also think the RealID is a great thing. Here at TL in our own rulebook we say that we value reputation, particularly as it is attached to a name. By requiring RealID, Blizz is just taking the same step. As a lot of the Blues have made clear on the WoW forums, I think they understand exactly the impact the requirement will have and are completely OK with 75% of the forum posters not returning (and damn, can you blame them?). In videogames and on the internet as a whole, posters have always been able to hide behind the veil of anonymity- in what other type of community or group would you submit a completely bogus name and expect this to be legitimate? For example, I personally belong to the ADK 46'ers organization. If any other member in the community had a problem with me, they'd have access to any of my personal information, including name, address, phone number etc. So far I've never had any problem, and by and large, people who belong to the billions of other offline groups and organizations haven't either. This idea that anonymity is a right is limited solely to the internet, and honestly, I don't think there's a single poster on here who would argue the fact that this anonymity is the driving force behind the internet's culture. Seeing this barrier begin to fall is a great step in my eyes. They're not just leaving the forums, they're quitting the game (and many are also going to cancel their SC2 preorder). The account cancellation service for WoW was lagged to hell for 5 hours straight. No change in the history of WoW has ever been met with this much resistance. This really isn't evidence of anything, however, as yesterday was also a maintenance day anyway. Their entire servers tend to be hosted in the same place, so on maintenance day when trolling increases to unprecedented levels, the whole website lags. It's been the case every single maintenance Tuesday. And every time, people claim "OMG PEOPLE ARE FLOCKING TO QUIT!" Because you know. You clearly have these numbers and aren't just wildly speculating without actual facts. This wasn't on Tuesday - it was very early morning today. Obviously you haven't been reading any major sites like digg/reddit, the posts here, or more importantly, the actual WoW site itself. I've actually read every post in this thread because I'm fairly interested in this discussion. Thank you for presuming something without evidence again though. It's pretty classy and very intelligent and makes me respect you as an individual And I've been a WoW player since day 1 release, thus I've gotten to see the forum crash and burn, everyone crying about invasion of privacy due to armory release and how there will be mass exodus, and everything else. Once again, the WoW Forum community represents such a small percent of the customer base, that even if any of them actually followed through with what they said, which they wont' because they wouldn't be able to troll anymore and heaven forbid they lose that outlet (OH WAIT! Maybe this change will change that...). I agree. Haven't people ever joined a gym or something like that? You give them your real name. You give them your address. You interact with plenty of people (or only a few if thats your thing), but during all of it, people have all the same information that anyone on the forums would be able to get. Having the same accountability when participating in an online community versus an offline community shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Ahh, no. You may give the gym your name, ect, but not everyone in the gym. You can choose to give them your name, a fake name, or no name at all. Now I can't speak for you, but personally, and pretty much anyone I've ever met, has never had a problem giving their real name to someone they meet in that kind of context. They're all pleasantly psychopath-stalker free. That's not the point. In a gym, you might talk to a few people and no one else has a clue who you are. On a forum, any random person on the internet, not just forum member, can read what you wrote. Your conversations in a gym aren't broadcast over the whole internet. EDIT; I also generally don't announce my full name when introducing myself to people - usually just my first name.
I have a shorter name so I usually do. Other than scale there's no difference really between a few people knowing your name and a lot. And if a lot do, they probably know a lot of people, then so the probability of them caring about anything specific you say is decreased.
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"I think you need a lot of context to seriously examine anything."
-Gus Haynes (The Wire)
And that's why, once again, this is all terrible and I agree with the bulk of the posters. I have no interest in constantly having to stifle what I say because somebody, anybody, will now be able to look at my posts and read them without context and associate them with me.
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On July 08 2010 03:15 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:13 keV. wrote:On July 08 2010 03:09 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:05 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 03:02 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:56 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 02:49 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:45 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 01:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On July 07 2010 22:32 Tray wrote:
Based on the comments in here I've never been more convinced this is a great idea. If the retards on here who say they won't buy the game because they can't troll the official forums without their name being there are being honest (most of them aren't), then the forums will actually be a useful place to visit from time to time.
It's the same illogical retards that are arguing against their names being posted that are the ones ruining the forums. The two groups probably have nearly identical overlap. .... Are you trolling? At risk of sounding just contrary, I also think the RealID is a great thing. Here at TL in our own rulebook we say that we value reputation, particularly as it is attached to a name. By requiring RealID, Blizz is just taking the same step. As a lot of the Blues have made clear on the WoW forums, I think they understand exactly the impact the requirement will have and are completely OK with 75% of the forum posters not returning (and damn, can you blame them?). In videogames and on the internet as a whole, posters have always been able to hide behind the veil of anonymity- in what other type of community or group would you submit a completely bogus name and expect this to be legitimate? For example, I personally belong to the ADK 46'ers organization. If any other member in the community had a problem with me, they'd have access to any of my personal information, including name, address, phone number etc. So far I've never had any problem, and by and large, people who belong to the billions of other offline groups and organizations haven't either. This idea that anonymity is a right is limited solely to the internet, and honestly, I don't think there's a single poster on here who would argue the fact that this anonymity is the driving force behind the internet's culture. Seeing this barrier begin to fall is a great step in my eyes. They're not just leaving the forums, they're quitting the game (and many are also going to cancel their SC2 preorder). The account cancellation service for WoW was lagged to hell for 5 hours straight. No change in the history of WoW has ever been met with this much resistance. This really isn't evidence of anything, however, as yesterday was also a maintenance day anyway. Their entire servers tend to be hosted in the same place, so on maintenance day when trolling increases to unprecedented levels, the whole website lags. It's been the case every single maintenance Tuesday. And every time, people claim "OMG PEOPLE ARE FLOCKING TO QUIT!" Because you know. You clearly have these numbers and aren't just wildly speculating without actual facts. This wasn't on Tuesday - it was very early morning today. Obviously you haven't been reading any major sites like digg/reddit, the posts here, or more importantly, the actual WoW site itself. I've actually read every post in this thread because I'm fairly interested in this discussion. Thank you for presuming something without evidence again though. It's pretty classy and very intelligent and makes me respect you as an individual And I've been a WoW player since day 1 release, thus I've gotten to see the forum crash and burn, everyone crying about invasion of privacy due to armory release and how there will be mass exodus, and everything else. Once again, the WoW Forum community represents such a small percent of the customer base, that even if any of them actually followed through with what they said, which they wont' because they wouldn't be able to troll anymore and heaven forbid they lose that outlet (OH WAIT! Maybe this change will change that...). I agree. Haven't people ever joined a gym or something like that? You give them your real name. You give them your address. You interact with plenty of people (or only a few if thats your thing), but during all of it, people have all the same information that anyone on the forums would be able to get. Having the same accountability when participating in an online community versus an offline community shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Does your Gym have 15 million people? In an effort to NOT repeat what been said, as someone who has been here arguing since this thread started, I'll just link appropriate posts On July 07 2010 06:09 Takkara wrote:On July 07 2010 05:55 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On July 07 2010 05:53 RonNation wrote:
It's absurd that people find the need to hide their names. I could not agree more. Be proud of who you are. On July 07 2010 05:54 Integra wrote:
This must be the most unpopular idea Blizzard has came up with in a long time. Search "chat channels" It's not a matter of pride or people hiding who they are. We don't have to deal with this anonymity problem generally in our real lives. Each place we go is compartmentalized generally with relatively little overlap. For example, I can go out to the bar with friends and we have our conversations, our modes of speak, and a shared level of knowledge that we feel comfortable sharing. We may go to our therapist and have a different set of conversations and shared knowledge. We then go to work, to the gym, to a store, etc. The issue with the internet is that these places aren't compartmentalized. They're cross-referenceable. A name is one of the ways to draw together all the threads. The anonymity on the Internet allows us to take back some of that privacy that the Internet is inherently not designed to provide. This doesn't mean that people should misrepresent themselves wherever they choose to associate, but it does mean that I shouldn't have to use information that unnecessarily connects my different associations online. In a future Internet that behaves this way, should someone need to fear when they go post on some medical forum or legal forum for advice and guidance, and then that gets dredged up when someone posts on a discussion board or another gaming board? Just because someone knows your name, doesn't end your life. Clearly it doesn't. It doesn't guarantee that your identity gets stolen. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it's a lot more threatening than people give it credit for. It's just a sign of the time, perhaps. In an age where the day after someone like Joe the Plumber appears on the scene, Internet sleuths can find out if he owes back taxes, ever had any tickets, whether he's a real plumber, etc and cast serious aspersion on his character and his life, do we really want to turn a blind eye while companies like Blizzard help with this? Think about the politicians who end up having to drop out of races because of something they wrote in college. Politicians and celebrities have to go through therapy and training to deal with the increased scrutiny and decreased privacy that they typically have. Attaching our personally identifiable information to things we do online is just one step towards making that the norm for everybody. The answer to this is persistent aliases. Let me choose how I want to be called, but make me stick to it and not arbitrarily change that. That's fair. Now, I'm accountable for what I write, but I have no fear that what I say no matter how innocuous can be linked back to something else. If someone wants to write in a thread about Gay Gaming or something like that, they don't have to be worried that that gets traced back to their facebook, to their work, or wherever. There're far larger philosophical and practical considerations to this than just the exact repercussions of Blizzard posting your name next to your whine about TvZ balance. Sometimes you have to look one step farther on these things. But the ability of people to tie those disjoint realms together has always been there- the fact that it isn't a problem in real life is exactly why it's not going to be that big a problem on the internet- people just don't care enough once the novelty has worn off.
But people do tie those things together. Jobs are lost or denied, people are stalked and harassed. The number of people that are willing to be malicious on the internet does not change with this real ID thing, their accessibility to YOU does.
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On July 08 2010 03:15 ghosthunter wrote:
Really? You REALLY think that's a valid comparison?
Because if you do, then our conversation is done, and you have clearly won sir.
Damn I didn't catch a glimpse at your country hitting the "quote" ... You're american right ?
I'm comparing the forced outing of names with the yellow stars and the vichy regime. Not my fault if you're so blatantly uneducated that you have to go into psycho mode every time anything before 1950 is mentioned...
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On July 08 2010 01:27 ondik wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 01:20 Copes wrote:
"During this time, we have thought ahead about the scope and impact of this change and predicted that many people would no longer wish to post in the forums after this change goes live. We are fine with that, because we want to change these forums dramatically in a positive and more constructive direction. "
So the fact that legitimate posters will no longer wish to use Blizzard's official forums is fine for Blizzard? Well, that's something new.
. My god, they are so dumb. Good luck having your forum full of 13 years old kids because that's probably the only group of people who can easily give a shit about revealing their personal info online.
You're awfully blind if you feel that 13 year old kids are the only ones who don't want their personal info shared online.
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On July 08 2010 03:19 Copes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 01:27 ondik wrote:On July 08 2010 01:20 Copes wrote:
"During this time, we have thought ahead about the scope and impact of this change and predicted that many people would no longer wish to post in the forums after this change goes live. We are fine with that, because we want to change these forums dramatically in a positive and more constructive direction. "
So the fact that legitimate posters will no longer wish to use Blizzard's official forums is fine for Blizzard? Well, that's something new.
. My god, they are so dumb. Good luck having your forum full of 13 years old kids because that's probably the only group of people who can easily give a shit about revealing their personal info online. You're awfully blind if you feel that 13 year old kids are the only ones who don't want their personal info shared online.
He meant that the other way around...
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United States5162 Posts
On July 08 2010 03:18 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:15 Myles wrote:On July 08 2010 03:13 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:11 Myles wrote:On July 08 2010 03:09 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:05 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 03:02 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:56 ghosthunter wrote:On July 08 2010 02:49 Vedic wrote:On July 08 2010 02:45 See.Blue wrote:
[quote]
At risk of sounding just contrary, I also think the RealID is a great thing. Here at TL in our own rulebook we say that we value reputation, particularly as it is attached to a name. By requiring RealID, Blizz is just taking the same step. As a lot of the Blues have made clear on the WoW forums, I think they understand exactly the impact the requirement will have and are completely OK with 75% of the forum posters not returning (and damn, can you blame them?). In videogames and on the internet as a whole, posters have always been able to hide behind the veil of anonymity- in what other type of community or group would you submit a completely bogus name and expect this to be legitimate? For example, I personally belong to the ADK 46'ers organization. If any other member in the community had a problem with me, they'd have access to any of my personal information, including name, address, phone number etc. So far I've never had any problem, and by and large, people who belong to the billions of other offline groups and organizations haven't either. This idea that anonymity is a right is limited solely to the internet, and honestly, I don't think there's a single poster on here who would argue the fact that this anonymity is the driving force behind the internet's culture. Seeing this barrier begin to fall is a great step in my eyes. They're not just leaving the forums, they're quitting the game (and many are also going to cancel their SC2 preorder). The account cancellation service for WoW was lagged to hell for 5 hours straight. No change in the history of WoW has ever been met with this much resistance. This really isn't evidence of anything, however, as yesterday was also a maintenance day anyway. Their entire servers tend to be hosted in the same place, so on maintenance day when trolling increases to unprecedented levels, the whole website lags. It's been the case every single maintenance Tuesday. And every time, people claim "OMG PEOPLE ARE FLOCKING TO QUIT!" Because you know. You clearly have these numbers and aren't just wildly speculating without actual facts. This wasn't on Tuesday - it was very early morning today. Obviously you haven't been reading any major sites like digg/reddit, the posts here, or more importantly, the actual WoW site itself. I've actually read every post in this thread because I'm fairly interested in this discussion. Thank you for presuming something without evidence again though. It's pretty classy and very intelligent and makes me respect you as an individual And I've been a WoW player since day 1 release, thus I've gotten to see the forum crash and burn, everyone crying about invasion of privacy due to armory release and how there will be mass exodus, and everything else. Once again, the WoW Forum community represents such a small percent of the customer base, that even if any of them actually followed through with what they said, which they wont' because they wouldn't be able to troll anymore and heaven forbid they lose that outlet (OH WAIT! Maybe this change will change that...). I agree. Haven't people ever joined a gym or something like that? You give them your real name. You give them your address. You interact with plenty of people (or only a few if thats your thing), but during all of it, people have all the same information that anyone on the forums would be able to get. Having the same accountability when participating in an online community versus an offline community shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Ahh, no. You may give the gym your name, ect, but not everyone in the gym. You can choose to give them your name, a fake name, or no name at all. Now I can't speak for you, but personally, and pretty much anyone I've ever met, has never had a problem giving their real name to someone they meet in that kind of context. They're all pleasantly psychopath-stalker free. That's not the point. In a gym, you might talk to a few people and no one else has a clue who you are. On a forum, any random person on the internet, not just forum member, can read what you wrote. Your conversations in a gym aren't broadcast over the whole internet. EDIT; I also generally don't announce my full name when introducing myself to people - usually just my first name. I have a shorter name so I usually do. Other than scale there's no difference really between a few people knowing your name and a lot. And if a lot do, they probably know a lot of people, then so the probability of them caring about anything specific you say is decreased.
The probability of someone not liking what you say an taking action is incredibly small. So small that in everyday life it is near zero. However, that 1 in a million chance, while unlikely when normally you might talk a few hundred people at the most, becomes very likely when 15 million(or more) people can read what you write.
The fact is that most people will never have an issue from it, just like many people give out personal information all the time and don't have issues. But a small minority will be harassed, females in particular. And while today that harassment can only happen over the internet unless determined action is taken(or ppl stupidly give out personal info), putting out their real name makes it so much easier.
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On July 08 2010 03:16 Santriell wrote:
Accountability is a matter of law, not half-baked moderators trying to be just that by forcing you to hand over your personal information.
And come on; Nobody dig that up already ? First facebook, then the real name.... And then what ? This is a pure vivendi-style operation to compile consumer information and re-sell the lists to advertisers.
Add to that the future UN & DMCA laws that are bound to be coming in 3-5 years about how "people must be tracked online" and you have a pretty good idea of who's going to be the guinea pig collaborator...
This is getting downright tinfoil-cap like. If the ramifications for posting are so dire, then ideally, that will mean that people will only post things they're willing to be associated with. If that means less people threatening to torch Blizz HQ because 'mech is too strong against zerg' then great. In real life your name is required daily for interactions with a whole host of people which we don't think twice about. Other than the fact that we have to now be responsible for our actions off and online, there really isn't that much to argue against, once you step beyond the rampant paranoia.
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Still waiting for someone to answer this simple question:
Why do they have to use your full name, instead of any other kind of personalized, unique identifier that gets locked to the account?
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On July 08 2010 03:19 Santriell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:15 ghosthunter wrote:
Really? You REALLY think that's a valid comparison?
Because if you do, then our conversation is done, and you have clearly won sir. Damn I didn't catch a glimpse at your country hitting the "quote" ... You're american right ? I'm comparing the forced outing of names with the yellow stars and the vichy regime. Not my fault if you're so blatantly uneducated that you have to go into psycho mode every time anything before 1950 is mentioned...
Yes, I am American. And on the plus side, you highlight racial stereotyping against me due to my country of origin which you feel would clearly be a problem on the Battle.net forums due to this change, so good job.
I also find it entertaining you racially stereotype against the predominant people on this foreigner forum (Because in the field of starcraft, we are the foreigners, delightfully enough), but to each their own.
I actually did not think anything of the fact that you were Belgian, as a random side note.
Can you please direct me to a link on Gregarism btw? I googled and wikied it and couldn't find anything. I am actually interested to know why someone called me an ignorant american swine.
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I also generally don't announce my full name when introducing myself to people - usually just my first name.
I think everyone claiming that a name is jsut a name and completely worthless are missing the point...
The idea is that using real names will prevent people from flaming/trolling because of the danger of doing so on your real name. That "danger" is the reason for the change, so in response to then call that danger immaginary is illogical.
The issue, of course, is that if danger can be present when "appropriate" (which is never), it can also be present at any other time.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 08 2010 03:27 Bibdy wrote:
Still waiting for someone to answer this simple question:
Why do they have to use your full name, instead of any other kind of personalized, unique identifier that gets locked to the account?
People for some reason think other people will be nicer over the internet if their real name is known.
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EPT
