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cucumber
Profile Joined June 2010
United States116 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-08 02:11:52
July 08 2010 02:10 GMT
#2181
The big problem with Blizzard's change, to my mind, is that it's either shockingly ignorant & misguided or completely disingenuous.

"Anonymity" isn't the issue. This is a solved problem. For example, read this.

If Blizzard really believes what they say, the problem is they are embarrassingly and completely incompetent.

If Blizzard doesn't mean what they say, maybe they're not incompetent with respect to this issue but then there are deeper and more pernicious problems.

It's all just incredibly bad.
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
July 08 2010 02:11 GMT
#2182
Be surprised if they go ahead with this now.
kajeus
Profile Joined May 2010
United States679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-08 02:19:26
July 08 2010 02:17 GMT
#2183
On July 08 2010 11:10 cucumber wrote:
The big problem with Blizzard's change, to my mind, is that it's either shockingly ignorant & misguided or completely disingenuous.

"Anonymity" isn't the issue. This is a solved problem. For example, read this.

If Blizzard really believes what they say, the problem is they are embarrassingly and completely incompetent.

If Blizzard doesn't mean what they say, maybe they're not incompetent with respect to this issue but then there are deeper and more pernicious problems.

It's all just incredibly bad.

Sounds like a lot of arm-chair theorizing to me.

Maybe this is a great idea! Maybe it will stop trolls and spamming. Maybe the Blizzard forums will become clean and useful for tech support and other things. Maybe it will save them lots of money. Seriously, who knows?

And, to repeat, I just plain don't accept that this carries nearly as many risks as so many of you assert. Privacy is a powerful western value, but I don't think it saves our lives or even makes them appreciably safer from "harassment". Might it save one life out of 100000? Maybe? I don't know! Is anything really going to stop a "psycho" from tracking somebody down and murdering them? (How often has this happened in the history of the Internet?)

And I know, you've told me that people will get phone-harassed. Well, at least they're not getting hurt. And if you turn out to be right---if there's widespread carnage, with people calling other people up and calling them names---then the experiment is over. You win.
pro-MoMaN, pro-HuK, pro-Millenium
RageOverdose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States690 Posts
July 08 2010 02:19 GMT
#2184
On July 08 2010 11:08 GMarshal wrote:


Fine, say that instead of cheesing this psycho you happen to refuse him from your clan in the blizzard clan recruitment forum, or you post a suggestion to nerf his favorite unit on blizzards forums and he just snaps, it can happen its easier for him to find you if he knows you by your real name rather than a handle that cannot be related to your real life.

Also the next logical step is to stop BM and Spamming in game by making you use real id there too


Say without it he looked up hacking programs, found them, and got any info he needed?

I've been hacked through Battle.net before, it's very possible.

Again, you are not safe from psychos as it stands before this. I'm contesting that when this gets implemented, harassment wouldn't be commonplace like people are asserting. Unless everyone intends to prove it, then it's just a self-fulfilled prophecy. I doubt you'll be at any more risk.




Calamity
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada161 Posts
July 08 2010 02:19 GMT
#2185
Look at how many little kids play these games, look at how many females play these games, then look at how many desperate stalkers and pedophiles are out there.

Sure older people won't need to worry about this but look at the more vulnerable people. Kids especially are just dumbfounded when it comes to their own privacy, even having Facebook with their numbers and address on them. Pair them with an Internet and you got yourself abductions.
Betaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!
cucumber
Profile Joined June 2010
United States116 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-08 02:23:07
July 08 2010 02:20 GMT
#2186
On July 08 2010 11:17 kajeus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2010 11:10 cucumber wrote:
The big problem with Blizzard's change, to my mind, is that it's either shockingly ignorant & misguided or completely disingenuous.

"Anonymity" isn't the issue. This is a solved problem. For example, read this.

If Blizzard really believes what they say, the problem is they are embarrassingly and completely incompetent.

If Blizzard doesn't mean what they say, maybe they're not incompetent with respect to this issue but then there are deeper and more pernicious problems.

It's all just incredibly bad.

Sounds like a lot of arm-chair theorizing to me.

Maybe this is a great idea! Maybe it will stop trolls and spamming. Maybe the Blizzard forums will become clean and useful for tech support and other things. Maybe it will save them lots of money. Seriously, who knows?

And, to repeat, I just plain don't accept that this carries nearly as many risks as so many of you assert. Privacy is a powerful western value, but I don't think it saves our lives or even makes them especially more convenient. Might it save one life out of 100000? Maybe? I don't know! Is anything really going to stop a "psycho" from tracking somebody down and murdering them? (How often has this happened in the history of the Internet?)

And I know, you've told me that people will get phone-harassed. Well, at least they're not getting hurt. And if you turn out to be right---if there's widespread carnage, with people calling other people up and calling them names---then the experiment is over. You win.


Can you explain what "arm-chair theorizing" means and how Blizzard's thought process or yours is any different from mine, except that I have cited a world-famous computer security expert in defense of my position & that world-famous expert tied his argument to a real-life example, thus making it non 'arm-chair'?

I agree that a lot of this and Blizzard's related thread is pure paranoia, but my point is that all of this could have been avoided if they have chosen a batter solution. That solution would have been (1) more moderators who moderate heavily; and (2) enforcing accountability on users who post.


kajeus
Profile Joined May 2010
United States679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-08 02:28:14
July 08 2010 02:24 GMT
#2187
On July 08 2010 11:20 cucumber wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2010 11:17 kajeus wrote:
On July 08 2010 11:10 cucumber wrote:
The big problem with Blizzard's change, to my mind, is that it's either shockingly ignorant & misguided or completely disingenuous.

"Anonymity" isn't the issue. This is a solved problem. For example, read this.

If Blizzard really believes what they say, the problem is they are embarrassingly and completely incompetent.

If Blizzard doesn't mean what they say, maybe they're not incompetent with respect to this issue but then there are deeper and more pernicious problems.

It's all just incredibly bad.

Sounds like a lot of arm-chair theorizing to me.

Maybe this is a great idea! Maybe it will stop trolls and spamming. Maybe the Blizzard forums will become clean and useful for tech support and other things. Maybe it will save them lots of money. Seriously, who knows?

And, to repeat, I just plain don't accept that this carries nearly as many risks as so many of you assert. Privacy is a powerful western value, but I don't think it saves our lives or even makes them especially more convenient. Might it save one life out of 100000? Maybe? I don't know! Is anything really going to stop a "psycho" from tracking somebody down and murdering them? (How often has this happened in the history of the Internet?)

And I know, you've told me that people will get phone-harassed. Well, at least they're not getting hurt. And if you turn out to be right---if there's widespread carnage, with people calling other people up and calling them names---then the experiment is over. You win.


Can you explain what "arm-chair theorizing" means and how Blizzard's thought process or yours is any different from mine, except that I have cited a world-famous computer security expert in defense of my position?

I agree that a lot of this and Blizzard's related thread is pure paranoia, but my point is that all of this could have been avoided if they have chosen a batter solution. That solution would have been (1) more moderators who moderate heavily; and (2) enforcing accountability on users who post.



What an arm-chair philosopher does?

Fine, I was not aware that a world-famous security expert wrote the article you linked. Although that lends weight to the argument, he is still just speculating.

I understand your solution. I think that it (1) costs a lot of money; (2) requires making fine distinctions between when to temp ban and when to perma-ban; (3) possibly has hairy PR ramifications?; and (4) requires finding people who are willing to sit around and read stupid posts all day.

On July 08 2010 11:19 Calamity wrote:
Look at how many little kids play these games, look at how many females play these games, then look at how many desperate stalkers and pedophiles are out there.

Sure older people won't need to worry about this but look at the more vulnerable people. Kids especially are just dumbfounded when it comes to their own privacy, even having Facebook with their numbers and address on them. Pair them with an Internet and you got yourself abductions.

Well, Facebook is already on the Internet...

Second, those under 13 CANNOT post under their own names. I dunno about kids over 14, but Blizzard did mention that the people paying the bills (i.e., adults) can set parental controls. Will this be effective? I don't know, but what aside from bad parenting keeps kids from sharing their personal info WITHOUT RealID Bnet forums (...on which they may not even be able to use their own names)?
pro-MoMaN, pro-HuK, pro-Millenium
kajeus
Profile Joined May 2010
United States679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-08 02:27:40
July 08 2010 02:27 GMT
#2188
[Accidental double-post]
pro-MoMaN, pro-HuK, pro-Millenium
cucumber
Profile Joined June 2010
United States116 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-08 02:30:01
July 08 2010 02:28 GMT
#2189
I agree with your points (2) and (4), but I don't think that's a critical problem.

I don't think it would cost a lot of money in the grand scheme of ATVI though and I see the possibility of (3) but I'm not too concerned about it.

I think we can agree to disagree about this without getting into a flame war.

kajeus
Profile Joined May 2010
United States679 Posts
July 08 2010 02:30 GMT
#2190
On July 08 2010 11:28 cucumber wrote:
I agree with your points (2) and (4), but I don't think that's a critical problem.

I don't think it would cost a lot of money in the grand scheme of ATVI though and I see the possibility of (3) but I'm not too concerned about it.

We can agree to disagree about this without getting into a flame war, though.


Ok.

Any company is all about minimizing costs and maximizing profits, right? Well, a full staff of round-the-clock moderators who monitor each of the (tens of?) thousands of posts made each day on the Blizzard forums will definitely up those costs, I'd say.
pro-MoMaN, pro-HuK, pro-Millenium
luckygreens
Profile Joined April 2008
United States98 Posts
July 08 2010 02:32 GMT
#2191
On July 08 2010 11:10 cucumber wrote:

If Blizzard really believes what they say, the problem is they are embarrassingly and completely incompetent.

If Blizzard doesn't mean what they say, maybe they're not incompetent with respect to this issue but then there are deeper and more pernicious problems.

It's all just incredibly bad.


100% agree, well said
dogabutila
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1438 Posts
July 08 2010 02:32 GMT
#2192
Really, all these people think that some random scrub is going to track them down cause they won a game? As if they would be the only person to beat that dude.

Just don't be retarded and start BMing or whatever and he won't even remember you.
Baller Fanclub || CheAse Fanclub || Scarlett Fanclub || LJD FIGHTING!
Gnosis
Profile Joined December 2008
Scotland912 Posts
July 08 2010 02:32 GMT
#2193
Or do what Valve does: "volunteer (not an employee of Valve) moderators".
"Reason is flawless, de jure, but reasoners are not, de facto." – Peter Kreeft
shalamadoooo
Profile Joined July 2010
78 Posts
July 08 2010 02:33 GMT
#2194
Blizzard made 4 million dollars in 24 hours selling that mount. 4 million dollars can hire 80 people at a salary of 50 grand for a year. Next year they can sell another mount.

kajeus
Profile Joined May 2010
United States679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-08 02:34:26
July 08 2010 02:33 GMT
#2195
On July 08 2010 11:32 Gnosis wrote:
Or do what Valve does: "volunteer (not an employee of Valve) moderators".

A solution I'm positive they've considered and tried...

Blizzard made 4 million dollars in 24 hours selling that mount. 4 million dollars can hire 80 people at a salary of 50 grand for a year. Next year they can sell another mount.

4 million dollars can do a lot of things. 4 million dollars could go into the next Blizzard game.
pro-MoMaN, pro-HuK, pro-Millenium
shalamadoooo
Profile Joined July 2010
78 Posts
July 08 2010 02:34 GMT
#2196
On July 08 2010 11:33 kajeus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2010 11:32 Gnosis wrote:
Or do what Valve does: "volunteer (not an employee of Valve) moderators".

A solution I'm positive they've considered and tried...

Show nested quote +
Blizzard made 4 million dollars in 24 hours selling that mount. 4 million dollars can hire 80 people at a salary of 50 grand for a year. Next year they can sell another mount.

4 million dollars can do a lot of things. 4 million dollars could go into the next Blizzard game.

rofl
ta2
Profile Joined July 2010
125 Posts
July 08 2010 02:36 GMT
#2197
On July 08 2010 11:34 shalamadoooo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2010 11:33 kajeus wrote:
On July 08 2010 11:32 Gnosis wrote:
Or do what Valve does: "volunteer (not an employee of Valve) moderators".

A solution I'm positive they've considered and tried...

Blizzard made 4 million dollars in 24 hours selling that mount. 4 million dollars can hire 80 people at a salary of 50 grand for a year. Next year they can sell another mount.

4 million dollars can do a lot of things. 4 million dollars could go into the next Blizzard game.

rofl

+1
cucumber
Profile Joined June 2010
United States116 Posts
July 08 2010 02:36 GMT
#2198

Any company is all about minimizing costs and maximizing profits, right? Well, a full staff of round-the-clock moderators who monitor each of the (tens of?) thousands of posts made each day on the Blizzard forums will definitely up those costs, I'd say.


I agree. I just think they should have spent the money on mods & policy changes to prevent the shitstorm they are now experiencing. No big deal. I don't think real names are the end of the world, either. We can disagree in peace.
kajeus
Profile Joined May 2010
United States679 Posts
July 08 2010 02:37 GMT
#2199
On July 08 2010 11:36 ta2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2010 11:34 shalamadoooo wrote:
On July 08 2010 11:33 kajeus wrote:
On July 08 2010 11:32 Gnosis wrote:
Or do what Valve does: "volunteer (not an employee of Valve) moderators".

A solution I'm positive they've considered and tried...

Blizzard made 4 million dollars in 24 hours selling that mount. 4 million dollars can hire 80 people at a salary of 50 grand for a year. Next year they can sell another mount.

4 million dollars can do a lot of things. 4 million dollars could go into the next Blizzard game.

rofl

+1

I see you boys are neither economists nor businessmen...
pro-MoMaN, pro-HuK, pro-Millenium
shalamadoooo
Profile Joined July 2010
78 Posts
July 08 2010 02:42 GMT
#2200
On July 08 2010 11:37 kajeus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2010 11:36 ta2 wrote:
On July 08 2010 11:34 shalamadoooo wrote:
On July 08 2010 11:33 kajeus wrote:
On July 08 2010 11:32 Gnosis wrote:
Or do what Valve does: "volunteer (not an employee of Valve) moderators".

A solution I'm positive they've considered and tried...

Blizzard made 4 million dollars in 24 hours selling that mount. 4 million dollars can hire 80 people at a salary of 50 grand for a year. Next year they can sell another mount.

4 million dollars can do a lot of things. 4 million dollars could go into the next Blizzard game.

rofl

+1

I see you boys are neither economists nor businessmen...

You can run a business without being a douchebag.
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