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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On June 10 2010 03:08 Liquid`NonY wrote: Beef isn't needed to sustain human life. Humans eat it for pleasure. Eating beef is killing for pleasure, just the same. devil's advocate is better when it makes sense. | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On June 10 2010 05:00 levelping wrote: Do you see carribas killing millions of cows? People know about the mistreatment of animals in farms. Eco Groups have been campaigning about that for decades. People just ignore it because it's inconvenient. Then when something like bullfighting comes along, everyone jumps on the bandwagon of condemnation to please their own sense of morality. @Myles If you are really concerned about the mental state of enjoyment, should you not give your condemnation to the spectators instead of the matador. It's could just be a job to him, it is definitely entertainment for them. I care about both. I would feel equally unsympathetic if a bull jumped the fence and gored a spectator - unless it was a kid, than it wouldn't really be their choice and I'd feel bad. As far as the matador goes, I could empathize if its 'just his job' and he does it just to support himself/his family. At the same time, if he really cared I'm sure he could find another job. | ||
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levelping
Singapore759 Posts
1) Yes animal cruelty is bad. 2) We have limited resources to solve problems and so we should prioritise which problems to be solved first. 3) Farming practices have rampant animal cruelty and this is a known fact. These practices affect much more animals than bulls in bullfighting. These practices also affect other species like chickens. 4) Legislature or market pressure for farms to change will thus save much more lives than banning bull fighting. 5) So we should solve problems in farming practices first before worrying about bull fighting. This isn't closing your eyes to anything. It's using resources in a smart way. If we're talking about culture... I think basic internet forum cultural norms think that double posting is needless when there is an edit button. But hey don't let that get in the way of your moral indignation. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On June 10 2010 02:57 IntoTheWow wrote: I'm glad this happened. no! that guy deserved the horn through his brain! | ||
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mint_julep
United States254 Posts
On June 10 2010 05:17 levelping wrote: To just bluntly list this once and for all: 1) Yes animal cruelty is bad. 2) We have limited resources to solve problems and so we should prioritise which problems to be solved first. 3) Farming practices have rampant animal cruelty and this is a known fact. These practices affect much more animals than bulls in bullfighting. These practices also affect other species like chickens. 4) Legislature or market pressure for farms to change will thus save much more lives than banning bull fighting. 5) So we should solve problems in farming practices first before worrying about bull fighting. This isn't closing your eyes to anything. It's using resources in a smart way. If we're talking about culture... I think basic internet forum cultural norms think that double posting is needless when there is an edit button. But hey don't let that get in the way of your moral indignation. Lol, this isn't a session of activists determining where to focus there efforts, its a thread for people to make fun of animal mutilators. | ||
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koOl
Canada254 Posts
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
On June 10 2010 05:17 levelping wrote: To just bluntly list this once and for all: 1) Yes animal cruelty is bad. 2) We have limited resources to solve problems and so we should prioritise which problems to be solved first. 3) Farming practices have rampant animal cruelty and this is a known fact. These practices affect much more animals than bulls in bullfighting. These practices also affect other species like chickens. 4) Legislature or market pressure for farms to change will thus save much more lives than banning bull fighting. 5) So we should solve problems in farming practices first before worrying about bull fighting. This isn't closing your eyes to anything. It's using resources in a smart way. If we're talking about culture... I think basic internet forum cultural norms think that double posting is needless when there is an edit button. But hey don't let that get in the way of your moral indignation. am i the one allocating resources? I'm just a forum dweller raging against the stupidity that i believe is bullfighting. yes i know the farm system is wrong, yes i know it kills more animals that bull fighting, but it also produces something useful for society. | ||
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agen
Barbados111 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10700 Posts
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
On June 10 2010 05:00 DreaM)XeRO wrote: so you go to watch a man dressed in tights kill a weaken bull.. by dancing? do something less .. bloodthirsty and watch a ballet? do you really need to rationalize your existance by watching the pointless pomp and ceremony over killing an animal? Well ballet is fine, but Corrida adds the exciting element of a dangerous animal. Originally they had a man dressed in tights dance around with a tiger in the room. The first man to try it got mauled badly and died so they tried to get another man to do it. The second man said he wouldn't do it unless they get something slower, so to make it work they get a bull, and then the second man figured he should get a sword to defend himself as well. *Tada* Corrida On a less sarcastic side, meat is a product derived from animals and will usually require the animal to be killed in some way. The end result is the same, and honestly I've never personally been slaughtered for my meat and I can't ask the last steak how it felt (Although I probably wouldn't if I could, that would just be awkward). As a product with a developed production method, meat has demand and uses industrial means to meet that demand. As an industry I think that meat production could do a better job at reducing environmental impact, but the volume of meat the industry produces is tough to create in the first place. As for bullfighting, I can see both sides of the argument and personally do not view it as a great tragedy. Seeing as how that meat is consumed as well and is therefore not wasteful, it is simply a flamboyant show which condenses the impact of industrial meat production into a shorter time frame and a smaller scale. It does not disturb or entertain me much, partly because I do not understand it well. I find it is a unique cultural quirk that I can hopefully better enjoy or at least understand one day in person. | ||
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Foreplay
United States1154 Posts
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mint_julep
United States254 Posts
On June 10 2010 05:25 agen wrote: It's pretty telling how the americans in the thread center their arguments around the miserable conditions cows face on american farms. Go to Sweden, go to Europe...go anywhere else in the world...farming conditions are much better for the livestock. No one wanted to argue about farming conditions. It's a visceral reaction to say, "Fuck that guy who's torturing for sport." And yea...fuck him. I'd be happy to post a funny picture of the CEO of factory farming company getting kicked in the face by a mistreated cow, but I don't have one. It is nice to know however that other parts of the world treat their livestock a bit better. ... It's really bad here -_-; | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
Animal proteins are not needed to sustain life. We can get not only ENOUGH protein to live healthily, but every type of protein we need to live healthily from non-animal sources. The typical American diet contains much more protein than is actually needed, to boot. I can't speak for the rest of the world, as I have not studied it. As for the lives of factory farmed animals... consider the classic case of the chicken. Kept in a shed, constantly shoulder-to-shoulder with 3 other chickens, afforded less living space than an 8.5" by 11" piece of paper. Their social order breaks down with the sheer number of other chickens present, and they become scared and aggressive, and attack one another. The chicken farmer, seeing damage being done to his product, opts to have the beaks of the chickens cut off-- usually with a pair of hot clippers to cauterize the wound, and done by an unskilled laborer who gets paid per piece rather than by quality. This is their life... for seven weeks. In seven weeks time, they grow to become full-sized chickens, and are taken to the slaughterhouse, where they are hung upside down by the hundreds, and then have their throats cut, again by an unskilled laborer who doesn't care about quality, only getting it done. This is assuming that their legs don't snap underneath them before they reach full size-- they grow so quickly that sometimes their legs cannot support such a fast increase in weight, so they break or deform, and the chicken dies of starvation or dehydration because it cannot get to its food or water. Pick any other mass-farmed animal and do a little research, and you'll find they're treated worse than most countries treat POWs. Even the VietCong kept POWs in larger holding cells relative to the subject's size than we westerners kept veal calves. Why? So their muscles would be unable to move, and therefore atrophy and stay TENDER. America goes turkey-crazy near the end of November-- most of us never realizing that the common turkey has been bred to have breast meat too large for its body. In fact, every factory-farmed turkey in America is a product of artificial insemination. Why? The breast meat is so big that the turkeys cannot fuck. A farm laborer must masturbate the male turkeys and inseminate the females. Why? Because we love that white meat. Amazing that an entire species is dependent upon another for its reproduction, not out of necessity, but because of the secondary species' selective breeding habits out of a want of MORE meat. This is harsh, but it's reality. We can acknowledge it, or we can ignore it. It's amazingly easy to ignore something. But it makes you ignorant... by definition. Keep in mind that I'm not against killing for food altogether. If it comes down to a human's life vs an animals, the human has priority. However, this is not the case. Not in any modernized country, at least. Plenty of other sources of protein exist-- nuts, beans, and lentils are some of my personal favorites. Even without meat in my diet, I manage to get more protein than I actually need, by eating a handful of nuts with a couple meals a day. I'm glad this fool got gored, but not as happy as I would be if he'd announce his retirement. He may not be killing the billions (yes, with a 'b' ) of farm animals that die every week, but he was both dumb enough to torture and taunt a one-ton animal with horns, and contribute to the pain of another creature's existence. | ||
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MetalMarine
United States1559 Posts
On June 10 2010 05:24 DreaM)XeRO wrote: am i the one allocating resources? I'm just a forum dweller raging against the stupidity that i believe is bullfighting. yes i know the farm system is wrong, yes i know it kills more animals that bull fighting, but it also produces something useful for society. you said everything i wanted to say. Thank you | ||
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SilentCrono
United States1420 Posts
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Monst3r
119 Posts
On June 10 2010 03:48 PanN wrote: So basically, since it's their culture, they shouldn't change. Oh I guess it was the U.S.'s culture to have slaves along time ago, but we shouldn't change culture right? Because evolving is bad or something? Fuck em, they stab an animal for sport, then it fucks him up, GOOD. I really dislike your posting but this post was something I can agree with 100% | ||
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JinjoBust
Korea (North)130 Posts
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Badjas
Netherlands2038 Posts
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
On June 10 2010 05:49 JinjoBust wrote: Empathy motherfuckers, do you have none? i could say the same for you that bull has a vice on his balls, vasaline on his eyelids and has been starved | ||
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KwarK
United States43821 Posts
On June 10 2010 03:05 IntoTheWow wrote: Killing to eat != killing for entertainment. Do you eat every part of the animal? If not then you're eating for pleasure. Killing more animals than you absolutely have to in order to eat the nicer parts. Killing for pleasure is killing for pleasure, I wouldn't enjoy watching a bullfight but equally I think it's horrible that a human suffered a horrible injury. I don't give a fuck what happens to animals. | ||
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