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On June 10 2010 03:37 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 03:34 katull wrote:On June 10 2010 03:23 IntoTheWow wrote:On June 10 2010 03:16 katull wrote:
To those who condemn bullfighting (and thus consider this funny):
I hold this sport for equally brutal and vicious, but I don't condemn this sport.
Not all bulls tested and bred for this have to endure this fight, and all of them are held in conditions unequal to any farming/breeding conditions you find in Europe. I don't want to write "happy cows", but this is as close as you can get...
If you eat meat as I do, consider how those animals are kept, and if you find that you don't really care, you shouldn't judge those who kill them for the barbaric enjoyment of the masses while *not* keeping them in small confinements all day long, transport them brutally for hours without water or food just to throw half of the meat away because it's cheap anyway.
I have more to write (and cite) but I'll wait for the first responses ^^ 2 wrongs != 1 right So you are saying he deserved this? Could you laugh at this? By that logic (considering my prior points) anyone who eats meat deserves the same. Is that your point? Please elaborate I'm not praising the sport, I'm praising the way they keep their cattle. If I would have to chose as a cow, I'd rather live happily and fight unfairly than being tortured all my life... Yeah and If I were god I would cure world hunger. But you are not a cow. And cows don't get to choose. Now back into reality. Please try not to put words I didn't not say into my mouth. What I said is that even if bulls are treated nicer before being tortured in public, that doesn't take away the fact that they are indeed tortured for entertainment. Better than bad, can still be bad. Trying to go off the tangent with the way meat is mass produced today doesn't work either. We are not talking about that in this thread, and even if we were, it doesn't make this 'sport' any better.
You are attacking a strawman. My point is just that people have a misconception between what they do and others do, and form opinions ("I find this funny") based on that.
My point is *not* that this sport is ok because they keep the animals happy.
That is why I wrote "To those who condemn bullfighting (and thus consider this funny)".
I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I thought you felt called upon that.
The comparisons mass product meat / bullfight holds under this light: if you just find it funny because you condemn this sport and "you find that you don't really care [...] how those animals are kept" then I say you are in no position to point fingers.
Maybe it's my english and I'm not clarifying my point enough.
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is awesome32278 Posts
On June 10 2010 03:45 Vasoline73 wrote:
lol @ everyone saying he deserved this.
"YEAH ITS NOT MY CULTURE WHAT ASSHOLES"
Like Nony said everyone eats beef and those cows die worse than the bulls do. Bull fighting is just a cultural thing and just because you don't understand it doesn't mean someone deserves to get mauled.
Yeah man, I wish i was enlightened so I could understand torturing animals as a way of entertainment.
Would it be okay if I tortured my pet as long as I ate him in the end?
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Theres a big debate in Spain regarding bullfighting. Catalonia (a region, where Barcelona is) is in process of banning bullfighting.
The Canary Islands banned it in April 1991, with a law that claims: (im translating) "does not allow mistreatment of animals or subject them to any sort of practice that can make them suffer...
the law also penalizes the use of animals in fights, partys, shows and other activities that lead to mistreatment, cruelty or suffering."
Obviously these rules dont allow bullfighting.
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On June 10 2010 03:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 03:11 IntoTheWow wrote:
I did not use the word pleasure, I said entertainment. I also did not talk about sustaining human life, but eating.
Nice try though!
edit: also, Zoler
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V lol kid you can't point out that I used different words and pretend that means something until you've given a reason why it means something. Pleasure encompasses entertainment, so I'm perfectly fine there. I only brought up sustaining human life as a way of anticipating a possible counterargument that you could make. That is, you could say we need to eat so killing for beef isn't for pleasure, even though we do get pleasure out of it. But of course that's incorrect because killing for beef is almost always for pleasure and hardly ever out of necessity. So, do you have any arguments or logic or just your typical bullshit one liners? =[
Pleasure encompasses entertainment. People eat beef instead of tofu all day because it tastes good to them that's true.
My problem with bull fighting is that people are directly celebrating this torture. It's in their face, they understand whats going on, and they're applauding the slow brutal murder of an animal for no reason.
The meat industry works really hard to keep images of factory farming abuses out of the media and out of people's minds. I'm well aware of the terrible conditions that most beef cattle are kept in in this country (US). It is inhumane and it equates to torture. Most people in this country however are not aware of bad these conditions really are. As I said, there is an incredibly powerful industry working overtime to insure that this is the case. The people watching bull fighting cannot make that claim. The torture is exactly what they're reveling in.
I know that these people's ignorance does not make the lives of these animals any better, but it also has no effect on bull fighting at all. As I mentioned, I personally don't eat factory farmed beef for that reason.
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Im vegetarian, and im mexican this cultural thing is very popular hir, i find bith this an eating meat something that goes just against animals they suffer in the farms and they suffer in this so called cultural show... If you don't agree with one of those you shouldn't agree with the other... simple as that.
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is awesome32278 Posts
On June 10 2010 03:50 katull wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 03:37 IntoTheWow wrote:On June 10 2010 03:34 katull wrote:On June 10 2010 03:23 IntoTheWow wrote:On June 10 2010 03:16 katull wrote:
To those who condemn bullfighting (and thus consider this funny):
I hold this sport for equally brutal and vicious, but I don't condemn this sport.
Not all bulls tested and bred for this have to endure this fight, and all of them are held in conditions unequal to any farming/breeding conditions you find in Europe. I don't want to write "happy cows", but this is as close as you can get...
If you eat meat as I do, consider how those animals are kept, and if you find that you don't really care, you shouldn't judge those who kill them for the barbaric enjoyment of the masses while *not* keeping them in small confinements all day long, transport them brutally for hours without water or food just to throw half of the meat away because it's cheap anyway.
I have more to write (and cite) but I'll wait for the first responses ^^ 2 wrongs != 1 right So you are saying he deserved this? Could you laugh at this? By that logic (considering my prior points) anyone who eats meat deserves the same. Is that your point? Please elaborate I'm not praising the sport, I'm praising the way they keep their cattle. If I would have to chose as a cow, I'd rather live happily and fight unfairly than being tortured all my life... Yeah and If I were god I would cure world hunger. But you are not a cow. And cows don't get to choose. Now back into reality. Please try not to put words I didn't not say into my mouth. What I said is that even if bulls are treated nicer before being tortured in public, that doesn't take away the fact that they are indeed tortured for entertainment. Better than bad, can still be bad. Trying to go off the tangent with the way meat is mass produced today doesn't work either. We are not talking about that in this thread, and even if we were, it doesn't make this 'sport' any better. You are attacking a strawman. My point is just that people have a misconception between what they do and others do, and form opinions ("I find this funny") based on that. My point is *not* that this sport is ok because they keep the animals happy. That is why I wrote " To those who condemn bullfighting (and thus consider this funny)". I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I thought you felt called upon that. The comparisons mass product meat / bullfight holds under this light: if you just find it funny because you condemn this sport and " you find that you don't really care [...] how those animals are kept" then I say you are in no position to point fingers. Maybe it's my english and I'm not clarifying my point enough.
To make things clearer. My point is, you brought the way meat is mass produced nowadays. It has nothing to do with this.
Also I never said "I didn't care about the way animals are kept". You did, so you are the one who has to answer me, not me. I get to point fingers freely wut!
The way animals are treated in production lines doesn't make this any better.
Torturing in the US would be acceptable if It happened more in other other countries? Not in the way I hold my moral scale. The same applies to this.
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is awesome32278 Posts
On June 10 2010 03:57 mint_julep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 03:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 10 2010 03:11 IntoTheWow wrote:
I did not use the word pleasure, I said entertainment. I also did not talk about sustaining human life, but eating.
Nice try though!
edit: also, Zoler
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V lol kid you can't point out that I used different words and pretend that means something until you've given a reason why it means something. Pleasure encompasses entertainment, so I'm perfectly fine there. I only brought up sustaining human life as a way of anticipating a possible counterargument that you could make. That is, you could say we need to eat so killing for beef isn't for pleasure, even though we do get pleasure out of it. But of course that's incorrect because killing for beef is almost always for pleasure and hardly ever out of necessity. So, do you have any arguments or logic or just your typical bullshit one liners? =[ Pleasure encompasses entertainment. People eat beef instead of tofu all day because it tastes good to them that's true. My problem with bull fighting is that people are directly celebrating this torture. It's in their face, they understand whats going on, and they're applauding the slow brutal murder of an animal for no reason. The meat industry works really hard to keep images of factory farming abuses out of the media and out of people's minds. I'm well aware of the terrible conditions that most beef cattle are kept in in this country (US). It is inhumane and it equates to torture. Most people in this country however are not aware of bad these conditions really are. As I said, there is an incredibly powerful industry working overtime to insure that this is the case. The people watching bull fighting cannot make that claim. The torture is exactly what they're reveling in. I know that these people's ignorance does not make the lives of these animals any better, but it also has no effect on bull fighting at all. As I mentioned, I personally don't eat factory farmed beef for that reason.
Nice post 
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is awesome32278 Posts
On June 10 2010 03:55 -Kato- wrote:
Theres a big debate in Spain regarding bullfighting. Catalonia (a region, where Barcelona is) is in process of banning bullfighting.
The Canary Islands banned it in April 1991, with a law that claims: (im translating) "does not allow mistreatment of animals or subject them to any sort of practice that can make them suffer...
the law also penalizes the use of animals in fights, partys, shows and other activities that lead to mistreatment, cruelty or suffering."
Obviously these rules dont allow bullfighting.
Do they ban televising shows from other places in Barcelona?
Is there a map with places that accept and do not accept this practice anywhere?
Thanks!
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On June 10 2010 03:58 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 03:57 mint_julep wrote:On June 10 2010 03:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 10 2010 03:11 IntoTheWow wrote:
I did not use the word pleasure, I said entertainment. I also did not talk about sustaining human life, but eating.
Nice try though!
edit: also, Zoler
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V lol kid you can't point out that I used different words and pretend that means something until you've given a reason why it means something. Pleasure encompasses entertainment, so I'm perfectly fine there. I only brought up sustaining human life as a way of anticipating a possible counterargument that you could make. That is, you could say we need to eat so killing for beef isn't for pleasure, even though we do get pleasure out of it. But of course that's incorrect because killing for beef is almost always for pleasure and hardly ever out of necessity. So, do you have any arguments or logic or just your typical bullshit one liners? =[ Pleasure encompasses entertainment. People eat beef instead of tofu all day because it tastes good to them that's true. My problem with bull fighting is that people are directly celebrating this torture. It's in their face, they understand whats going on, and they're applauding the slow brutal murder of an animal for no reason. The meat industry works really hard to keep images of factory farming abuses out of the media and out of people's minds. I'm well aware of the terrible conditions that most beef cattle are kept in in this country (US). It is inhumane and it equates to torture. Most people in this country however are not aware of bad these conditions really are. As I said, there is an incredibly powerful industry working overtime to insure that this is the case. The people watching bull fighting cannot make that claim. The torture is exactly what they're reveling in. I know that these people's ignorance does not make the lives of these animals any better, but it also has no effect on bull fighting at all. As I mentioned, I personally don't eat factory farmed beef for that reason. Nice post
Indeed, captured my thoughts precisely. So eloquent!~~
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On June 10 2010 03:45 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 03:43 Hawk wrote:
This happened a few weeks ago! Still friggin' insane.
And people, do not listen to ITW. HE'S ARGENTINIAN. His country is renown for its beef. Dude's hands are literally covered in bovine blood. That savage!
lol so american, ignorant about the rest of the world. Here we get up early every morning with bows and arrows and go hunt our own food. Animals here die with honor.
Trip report please.
on a serious note, how the hell is anyone seriously putting this on the same level as eating a goddamn steak??
Have you people ever watched a bull fight?? It's fuckin' terrible. Those things are prodded, stabbed and fucking tortured before they even get in the ring, and by the time the matador gets to it, it's been impaled a few times by the horse mounted pike guys, and dudes with the dual javelin things get him three or four times.
Slaughterhouses aren't pretty, but it's hardly torture and murder for entertainment
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United States10774 Posts
intothewow you need to drop that condescending tone whenever you get into discussions/arguments regardless of whether you are right or wrong, because you are not all that great and it gets really annoying
i don't care if the sport is ethical or unethical. laughing at the guy getting seriously hurt like that, or saying things like "he had it coming" is just not cool. what if he got killed, or even paralyzed for life? would you be saying the same thing? you are GLAD that he got hurt? what the hell...
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thing is bullfights are extremely cruel and that is wrong , I'm not saying that it justifies us laughing at the poor guy who got his chin peirced UNLESS he survived wich he did. Beacuse he survived we can make fun of him all we want. If they guy would've died though we shudn't laugh ...that would be tacky And yes I did laugh at the first pic I saw of this and yes I eat meat but eating meat and torturing an animal to death is NOT the same thing. Saying they are is ridiculous , don't want the cow ur about to eat to have been tortured to death don't eat the meat from the bullfights. Beacuse in bullfights and bullfights alone (in the civilised world at least) do they torture animals like this before killing and eating it.
Edit: I am pretty sure he didn't sustain any crippling wounds ...except for maybe a couple of teeth and a scar under his chin.
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On June 10 2010 04:00 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 03:55 -Kato- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Theres a big debate in Spain regarding bullfighting. Catalonia (a region, where Barcelona is) is in process of banning bullfighting.
The Canary Islands banned it in April 1991, with a law that claims: (im translating) "does not allow mistreatment of animals or subject them to any sort of practice that can make them suffer...
the law also penalizes the use of animals in fights, partys, shows and other activities that lead to mistreatment, cruelty or suffering."
Obviously these rules dont allow bullfighting.
Do they ban televising shows from other places in Barcelona? Is there a map with places that accept and do not accept this practice anywhere? Thanks!
First of all, its not banned in Barcelona, the debate is going on.
No I dont know it for sure but as bullfighting is sometimes on national television, it will still be televised in Barcelona too. Banning something from TV is another thing altogether, and nowadays, how can you stop someone from watching anything anyways, be it through TV or the internet or whatever.
What do you mean a map? Its banned in the Canary Islands, and the debate is going on in Catalonia, so right now its only the Canary Islands, bullfighting is allowed everywhere else.
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Thats what you get from torturing animals... The bull just made him taste his own pointy medicine
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is awesome32278 Posts
Meh, sorry I guess I get frustrated when talking about heated-up arguments online. My apologies!
About the matador, I'm pretty sure they are prepared for it the same way people are in risky disciplines. The train a lot before entering the arena, so they know what they can expect from fighting a bull. Most of them suffer injuries while training before entering big arenas.
Of course it's painful for him, but he chose to do it himself, nobody pushed him into doing that. The bull on the other side...
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wow that was fucking savage... at first i was like eh? what happened, but the slow motion from a different angle, wow, it made me go all funny inside ¬_¬
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is awesome32278 Posts
On June 10 2010 04:09 -Kato- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 04:00 IntoTheWow wrote:On June 10 2010 03:55 -Kato- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Theres a big debate in Spain regarding bullfighting. Catalonia (a region, where Barcelona is) is in process of banning bullfighting.
The Canary Islands banned it in April 1991, with a law that claims: (im translating) "does not allow mistreatment of animals or subject them to any sort of practice that can make them suffer...
the law also penalizes the use of animals in fights, partys, shows and other activities that lead to mistreatment, cruelty or suffering."
Obviously these rules dont allow bullfighting.
Do they ban televising shows from other places in Barcelona? Is there a map with places that accept and do not accept this practice anywhere? Thanks! First of all, its not banned in Barcelona, the debate is going on. No I dont know it for sure but as bullfighting is sometimes on national television, it will still be televised in Barcelona too. Banning something from TV is another thing altogether, and nowadays, how can you stop someone from watching anything anyways, be it through TV or the internet or whatever. What do you mean a map? Its banned in the Canary Islands, and the debate is going on in Catalonia, so right now its only the Canary Islands, bullfighting is allowed everywhere else.
Oh, I thought it was banned in more places.
Thanks!
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I'm not sure people realise what they are saying. For people appealing to some kind of moral high ground, you might want to realise that
1) "he deserves it" : this is like another human being you're talking about. He might be doing it for the money. The main people to blame are all the arena spectators giving the demand for the sport. This guy could just be some average joe who is trying to get his kids money to get through school. He is a complete stranger to all of us and without even thinking about his motivations and life, you readily say that he deserves to get a bull horn through his lower jaw.
2) Slaughter houses. As a fact, there are several times more cows being kept in small pens and being slaughtered. As a fact, these same small pens cause cows an immense amount of stress and disease. And of course, cows for bull fighting are treated (ironically) far better than normal cows.
So what you have is a) a cow that has a very miserable life and then gets slaughtered and b) a cow that has a better life, but dies in a more horrible way. If you are trying to say that a) is any better than b) i'm not sure that the cow really appreciates the arbitrary line you are trying to draw.
Concluding - if you are going to try and have some moral high ground to say that another human being deserves to have his jaw impaled, maybe you might want to examine your own practices least you look hypocritical.
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On March 16 2010 22:03 Boblion wrote:Poll: What is the the worst kind of threads ?( Vote): PvZ Imba ( Vote): Eco libertarians threads ( Vote): Hey look this random video ! ( Vote): China is full of evil commies blablabla ( Vote): TvP is rigged i quit bw ( Vote): Why i'm a Christian ( Vote): Roach / Immortal / whatever IMBA FIX PLZ ! Hard to tell .... that's a multiple tie imo.
I need to add a corrida option
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EPT
