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So I decided to sign-up for today's CraftCup tournament, little did I know how bad this tournament actually is...
I play and win the 1st round match for the Pre-grid, then for the 2nd round I'm matched up with nightend. I add him on f list and wait... After 5 minutes I send a report to the CraftCup admins asking what should I do if my opponent is not online, and what are the rules for this kinda thing. A few seconds later an admin contacts me on battle.net and says the wait is 15 minutes, so I wait... 20 minutes have passed and still nightend is not online, so I ask the admin "now what?" and he replies "ok np i gave u walkover, continue with the round 3 match".
I continue playing and win my round 3 match. So now I have a round 4 match to play, right? Wrong. Another admin now contacts me and says I have to go back and play my round 2 match cause nightend is now online and there was a misunderstanding. This has got to be a joke... I tell him that another admin gave me the walkover after 20 minutes of waiting, but he insists that I have to play my round 2 match otherwise he will kick me out of the tour. And I'm like "man u have rules and I followed them, why arent you doing the same?". I also ask him where are the rules that say anything about this matter. No response.
Clearly because the admins stuffed up now they were blaming me for round 2. Instead of him talking with the other admins and resolving this for future tournaments, he just kicks me out of the tour for what? I played my games, followed the rules, but it doesn't matter cause the CraftCup admin does whatever he wants and removes me from the tour.
What a well-run tournament... heads up people, CraftCup doesn't follow their own rules.
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And this forum is going to do what for youÉ
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sounds like special treatment to me
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On May 01 2010 03:39 Kralic wrote:
And this forum is going to do what for youÉ
He wasn't asking for help, read his post and he says that it's a heads-up of how stupid they are.
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that sucks man, yeah sounds like that guy may have been a friend of admin or something.
Why run a tournament, make rules, and don't even abide by your own rules??
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I don't want this forum to do anything, I'm just helping other players realize that this tournament does whatever they want.
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On May 01 2010 03:40 KinosJourney2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 03:39 Kralic wrote:
And this forum is going to do what for youÉ He wasn't asking for help, read his post and he says that it's a heads-up of how stupid they are.
Still doesn`t make sense to post it here and try to bash a tournament that has been around for a long time. The proper way would be going to their website and talking to their admin`s about why it was handled this way and if they are going to do something about it. Maybe if you try being an admin of a tournament without chat channels you would realise how much of a pain it is.
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Sounds like a shotty deal if its true man. Nightend is mTw so infer from that what you will.
@Kralic he isn't trying to get the forum to do anything for him, he is sharing his experience with a popular tournament in the euro servers. What's that post doing for anyone?
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Strange things can happen when money is involved. Although I wouldn't ruin the reputation of the tournament for an action of 1 admin.
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On May 01 2010 03:43 Kralic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 03:40 KinosJourney2 wrote:On May 01 2010 03:39 Kralic wrote:
And this forum is going to do what for youÉ He wasn't asking for help, read his post and he says that it's a heads-up of how stupid they are. Still doesn`t make sense to post it here and try to bash a tournament that has been around for a long time. The proper way would be going to their website and talking to their admin`s about why it was handled this way and if they are going to do something about it. Maybe if you try being an admin of a tournament without chat channels you would realise how much of a pain it is.
I was talking to the admin for like 15 minutes and he never gave me a reasonable answer for why this issue was handled like this. What more could I have done? And btw, what does MTW have to do with anything?
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On May 01 2010 03:47 GG.Win wrote:
Strange things can happen when money is involved. Although I wouldn't ruin the reputation of the tournament for an action of 1 admin.
you should. cause if everyone keeps doing it whenever admins cock up, eventually nobody will ever cock up again. not to mention how its necessary if we ever want any form of professional e-sports outside of korea.
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On May 01 2010 03:40 EleanorRIgby wrote:
sounds like special treatment to me
Sure does reek..
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On May 01 2010 03:43 Kralic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 03:40 KinosJourney2 wrote:On May 01 2010 03:39 Kralic wrote:
And this forum is going to do what for youÉ He wasn't asking for help, read his post and he says that it's a heads-up of how stupid they are. Still doesn`t make sense to post it here and try to bash a tournament that has been around for a long time. The proper way would be going to their website and talking to their admin`s about why it was handled this way and if they are going to do something about it. Maybe if you try being an admin of a tournament without chat channels you would realise how much of a pain it is.
What don't you understand about his post? They would just delete his thread on their site and probably ban him for making them look bad.
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Are you by chance Moutas? http://craftcup.com/ says a guy named Moutas was DQd and an explanation is forthcoming.
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this post should be a blog instead of a thread
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it doesn't make sense at all to play round 3 then go back and play round 2 because it changes the entire outcome.
If you lose r2, then what? does nightend have to replay the guy you played in r3? so many variables
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that is just horrible T_T damn that admin :/
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Obviously I don't know what happened, but it seems that if Nightend was DQed due to a mistake on the part of the tourney admins (as opposed to a mistake on his part that they decided to go easy on), their request that you play him would be reasonable. It would suck for you, but it would still be the least unfair option they had.
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Yes I am Moutas.
On May 01 2010 03:52 CharlieMurphy wrote:
it doesn't make sense at all to play round 3 then go back and play round 2 because it changes the entire outcome.
If you lose r2, then what? does nightend have to replay the guy you played in r3? so many variables
Yeah I was thinking about that too. It's just ridiculous.
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well thats just normal in every rts tour ( bw, wc3, sc2 ) i played the "top players" got more privileges...
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Sounds like special treatment.
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Just remember this. There is always two sides to the story. We got his POV which could be the truth or it could be the truth bent a little bit. Usually when people complain about how something didn`t go right for them they always make it as if they never got upset, how they stayed calm and listened to everything the admin had to say. Ask the admin in question and they will give you another version of the story, it is going to follow the same path of either being the truth or the turth bent a little bit to make them look like the good guy.
Basing the facts off one disgruntled person over the weeks this tournament has been run I would have to call this story the truth bent a little bit. There is most likely more behind this story. I could also be wrong and this could be the entire truth.
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On May 01 2010 03:53 HCastorp wrote:
Obviously I don't know what happened, but it seems that if Nightend was DQed due to a mistake on the part of the tourney admins (as opposed to a mistake on his part that they decided to go easy on), their request that you play him would be reasonable. It would suck for you, but it would still be the least unfair option they had.
One of their rules is:
Coming to late 15 minutes will most likely result in a defloss.
So, if all is as he said, they had no right to DQ him.
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well that was handled very poorly. I would stay away from that tourn 
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you waited 20 minutes and expected a free win ? I really hate when I'm not in front of my computer in a tournament and after 5 minutes on irc my opponent is already begging for a free win. Well, not begging but asking "what should I do" and things like that in public. I played several tourneys in clanbase and it's very common to play your scheduled games 2 hours later or even a few days after, even if the opponent did not show up.
It's just not fair to claim a free win because someone was 5 minutes late (15+ 5 minutes). Just like if in the streets someone would drop some money, he would notice and you would still want to take the money just because you were closer from the bill.
edit: I didn't see you were kicked from the tournament, that's a lot different I guess.
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if you sign up for a tournament, show up and and play ffs
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On May 01 2010 03:58 chuky500 wrote:
you waited 20 minutes and expected a free win ? I really hate when I'm not in front of my computer in a tournament and after 5 minutes on irc my opponent is already begging for a free win. Well, not begging but asking "what should I do" and things like that in public. I played several tourneys in clanbase and it's very common to play your scheduled games 2 hours later or even a few days after, even if the opponent did not show up.
It's just not fair to claim a free win because someone was 5 minutes late (15+ 5 minutes). Just like if in the streets someone would drop some money, he would notice and you would still want to take the money just because you were closer from the bill.
Actually, the guy was 25 minutes late if you read the first post. He was 5 min late, then admin told him to wait 15 mins. He said he waited 20 more, thats a total of 25. The rules say DQ after 15 mins, so your point is moot.
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Sweden33719 Posts
I played several tourneys in clanbase and it's very common to play your scheduled games 2 hours later or even a few days after, even if the opponent did not show up.
That's totally different from this type of 1 day tournament. These tournaments don't work unless everyone shows up on time.
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Sounds like the fairly typical "the second admin is friends with xxx" scenario.
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Thanks ill never play such a stupid tournament if thats how it is run by cheap admins.
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yes but still 25 minutes is not much, first rounds always happen at the same time
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On May 01 2010 03:58 chuky500 wrote:
you waited 20 minutes and expected a free win ? I really hate when I'm not in front of my computer in a tournament and after 5 minutes on irc my opponent is already begging for a free win. Well, not begging but asking "what should I do" and things like that in public. I played several tourneys in clanbase and it's very common to play your scheduled games 2 hours later or even a few days after, even if the opponent did not show up.
It's just not fair to claim a free win because someone was 5 minutes late (15+ 5 minutes). Just like if in the streets someone would drop some money, he would notice and you would still want to take the money just because you were closer from the bill.
edit: I didn't see you were kicked from the tournament, that's a lot different I guess.
free win? dude its a tourny if the guy does not show up in time it's his problem. Some people dont have all day to play a tourny if everyone start showing late the tourny wont work at all. Hell come in late 20 minutes everyday at work u will get fired same thing here. Sux for the guy
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if they gave him a walkover, its final. should never be allowed to go back like that. EVER.
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The admin should resign to keep the integrity of this tournament.
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On May 01 2010 04:05 chuky500 wrote:
yes but still 25 minutes is not much, first rounds always happen at the same time
I think you are missing the point. Its not a matter of, "Is 25 minutes too much?" its a matter of 25 mins > 15 mins, and the admin DQ'd him as per the rules. Then the second admin decided to unDQ him after the round 3 match was already played.
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@Chriamon -
I guess I was thinking that there are only two ways I can imagine that the tourney admins would have handled the situation this way:
1) Nightend left for awhile or w/e without contacting anyone, but they decided to let him back into the tournament becasue of some kind of favoritism. This would be really stupid and it seems unlikely that they would do this, although if they did, they deserve all the rage in this thread and more.
2) The admin who told Moutas to take a free win and move on was wrong for some reason. Perhaps Nightend had contacted another admin and received some kind of permission to be gone for some length of time. Which seems reasonable. Once the mistake was discovered, asking Moutas to go back and play round 2, while awful, is still less unfair than disqualifying Nightend would be. It still wouldn't let the admins off the hook, because the situation would never have arisen if they communicated properly, but it seems like a more reasonable mistake.
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whats really dumb is dae already played his 3rd round match. i wonder what happened after he got disqualified? Did Nightend advanced to round 4 directly? or did his "3rd" match have to replay an opponent? That is, of course, given he didnt already log off and stop playing for the day...
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On May 01 2010 04:06 SLush wrote:
The admin should resign to keep the integrity of this tournament.
Yes really he should.
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On May 01 2010 04:05 chuky500 wrote:
yes but still 25 minutes is not much, first rounds always happen at the same time
First round, second round, regardless, if he waits any longer than 30 minutes he is holding up the rest of the tournament. Especially a tournament that is moving over 256 people at a time--trying to finish at a reasonable hour is quite a goal in itself. We've seen several tournaments in the US that have been delayed already--those were a pain to watch sometimes.
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Are iccup admins in charge of craftcup? I didnt really look into it but it'd make sense O:
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Don't be so quick with the preferential treatment accusations. This kinda thing quickly happens when there's inexperienced admins. So if the story is true that doesn't necessarily mean corrupt admins, might just mean a brand new one and some bad communication. That is, if the story's true.
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actually this kinda admin bias happened in wc3, with nightend getting the benefit
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On May 01 2010 03:56 FortuneSyn wrote:
Sounds like special treatment.
yep, that is pretty ridiculous. It only happened because he's a known player, so they showed favoritism. If you are unknown you are screwed...well that is what happened in this instance.
just rofl at going back two roundS AFTER matches had been played just incompetence there.
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On May 01 2010 04:10 avilo wrote:yep, that is pretty ridiculous. It only happened because he's a known player, so they showed favoritism. If you are unknown you are screwed...well that is what happened in this instance. just rofl at going back two roundS AFTER matches had been played just incompetence there.
Yea, I keep refreshing craftcup's website, I wanna see what their "official" explanation ends up being.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 01 2010 04:09 TheAntZ wrote:
Are iccup admins in charge of craftcup? I didnt really look into it but it'd make sense O:
I think the Craftcup guys have a Red Alert 3 background, but I could be wrong. I just saw some "RA3 craftcup" mentions in the rules.
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They are just continuing the proud KESPA tradition of baffling league management decisions
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Kralic's comments on first page truly show there are retarded people on the internet.
The original poster is sharing his experience with the starcraft 2 community in regards to a starcraft 2 tournament and you start trolling with useless questions and comments.
CraftCup should offer a legitimate explanation for their actions or be shunned by the community, its really that simple.
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On May 01 2010 04:23 Zed03 wrote:
Kralic's comments on first page truly show there are retarded people on the internet.
The original poster is sharing his experience with the starcraft 2 community in regards to a starcraft 2 tournament and you start trolling with useless questions and comments.
CraftCup should offer a legitimate explanation for their actions or be shunned by the community, its really that simple.
You are a bad troll. Craftcup is making an explanation for it following their tournament. Thanks for the compliment that I am retarded, I will try better to please the masses on the internet.
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Wow that sucks, everyone I've ever talked to about craftcup says its pretty lame. Sorry bro that sucks
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From what it seems it was an admin fault, one way or the other. This means that they should have a worked out plan on how to act in such situations... and the solution should not harm the participants in any way. That's what the admins are for - to keep it fair for everyone. Really curious for their official response.
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I agree they need to remove that admin. If there is any favoritism in tournaments, then it's not a tournament, it's a joke. The purpose of admins is to force their own rules, not dodge them.
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There is no 3rd round match for Nightend.
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Seems like no matter which way you look at it, favouritism or not, one of the admins is majorly at fault.
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On a one-day-tourney liek this, you can't just show up 30mins late. If everyone would do that you wouldnt be finished until next week.
Once an admin tells you you are through, and you already played your 3rd match, it should stand. If you didnt play your 3rd match yet then by all means, you should play your R2 match with Nightend.
This smells fishy... Even if Nightend was given a 30min "break" so to say, and the miscommunication happened on their end, you shouldn't be punished for it. In that case, i think Nightend shouldve been "punished" for it since he had to go where he had to play a game, permission or no permission.
Curious what they will say about this
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On May 01 2010 04:13 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 04:09 TheAntZ wrote:
Are iccup admins in charge of craftcup? I didnt really look into it but it'd make sense O: I think the Craftcup guys have a Red Alert 3 background, but I could be wrong. I just saw some "RA3 craftcup" mentions in the rules.
Yes, there roots are from Red Alert 3
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On May 01 2010 03:40 EleanorRIgby wrote:
sounds like special treatment to me
this and nightend isn't even good, seems weird they would do this for him as he's going to get shit on in round 6 anyways.
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damn it.. i signed up for craftcup too... better unsign up... i dnt wanna play on a shawdy tournament..
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doh that sounds stupid :/
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[sarcasm]
it's very good for esports, especially even in the early stages of a game, for tournament admins to show such a professinal way of handling things
[/sarcasm]
whoever that admin was: you are an idiot.
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On May 01 2010 03:53 HCastorp wrote:
Obviously I don't know what happened, but it seems that if Nightend was DQed due to a mistake on the part of the tourney admins (as opposed to a mistake on his part that they decided to go easy on), their request that you play him would be reasonable. It would suck for you, but it would still be the least unfair option they had.
if so, why hasn't the admin told him this?
his point was that they didn't give reasonable arguments at all
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Name the admin that gave the bye and the admin that unDQ'd nightend. Have them both give there explanations publicly and make appropriate apologies and keep going with extra rules in place to handle such a situation for the future.
I don't see how breaking the rules going over 25mins late to a tourney can ever be allowed without getting confirmation from the opponent 1st that its ok otherwise the opponent is left staring at a monitor for 25mins which can affect play also.
Imo there is no way someone can be unDQ'd when they break the rules regardless when the opponent is made to play next round games.
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On May 01 2010 04:35 Erucious wrote:
On a one-day-tourney liek this, you can't just show up 30mins late. If everyone would do that you wouldnt be finished until next week.
Once an admin tells you you are through, and you already played your 3rd match, it should stand. If you didnt play your 3rd match yet then by all means, you should play your R2 match with Nightend.
This smells fishy... Even if Nightend was given a 30min "break" so to say, and the miscommunication happened on their end, you shouldn't be punished for it. In that case, i think Nightend shouldve been "punished" for it since he had to go where he had to play a game, permission or no permission.
Curious what they will say about this
This.
It's totally understandable to make you play your match with nightend if you haven't play r3 yet. But once you've already played r3 it's just plain retarded to make you go back and play nightend. Makes things way too complicated and is quite unfair.
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MorroW : rdy?
Vous : yes in 5min and go!
MorroW : k
Vous : go?
MorroW : no
admin gave me win
u cant just go ladder in middle of tournament
im playing other guy now
Vous : ?
i wasnt on ladder
stop i said you wait 5 min
stop be unfair
Vous : i wasnt ladder i was waiting you on the ladder
Vous : i was on the game wiating you and i was on the toilet....
i didnt play ladder
you are so bad manner
MorroW : admin told me u were playing
its not my fault
its too late now anyway
sorry
Vous : ... whuy you said me "ok"? for wait 5min
i was shitting
Vous : you always do that you are so fucking dumb
So i was on the tournament, i maked the game for the 3rd round vs Morrow and i said him wait 5 min, he said me ok, i was on the toilet "shitting" and what he did? he said at the admin i wasnt here and i was playing ladder!
And i maked the game for this match and he get the forfait! (it was exactly only 5min)
So morrow will never change, fucking bad manner with 2 bo on starcraft2 cheese marines scv or expand first... he is so funny! he is lucky starcraft2 willnot lan atm
And thx for the admin Cruft cup didnt do nothing! so you can take the win without play! nice admins saying me :
Maista dit :
for today youa re out, sorry
lets play later for that
ha ha ha nice morrow nice admins
http://craftcup.com/index.php?site=news
fucking so dumb
You can say "wtf"  was 3 weeks before this story
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I was this guy's 3rd round opponent, I played like a phaggot and go owned. No I did not end up replaying game vs nightend, I believe nightend was simply advanced to round 5, where moutas should have been, lol. When I first read he was disqualified I assumed it was cheating, not something as retarded as this. Shame, as craftcup/conquercup was usually ran quite well.
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what the fuck.
p.s.:lol romanians.
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The admin that gave me the walkover was brotkohl, the other admin that DQ'ed me said he was the head admin (dunno the name)
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hey DeA (aka Moutas), why don't you tell everyone the full story? Actually Nightend was online all the time, but had some problems with SC2 (couldn't add friends and chat with you - smth like that). He asked me to do it instead, so I contacted you on battlenet but you ignored my messages.
We waited some more, and then Nightend contacted an admin and also sent them a print screen I made with me contacting you about the game.
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On May 01 2010 04:56 DeA wrote:
The admin that gave me the walkover was brotkohl, the other admin that DQ'ed me said he was the head admin.
what was his name?
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On May 01 2010 04:57 cyclone25 wrote:
hey DeA (aka Moutas), why don't you tell everyone the full story? Actually Nightend was online all the time, but had some problems with SC2 (couldn't add friends and chat with you - smth like that). He asked me to do it instead, so I contacted you on battlenet but you ignored my messages.
We waited some more, and then Nightend contacted an admin and also sent them a print screen I made with me contacting you about the game.
put up the screen.
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On May 01 2010 04:52 MoMaN- wrote:MorroW : rdy? Vous : yes in 5min and go! MorroW : k Vous : go? MorroW : no admin gave me win u cant just go ladder in middle of tournament im playing other guy now Vous : ? i wasnt on ladder stop i said you wait 5 min stop be unfair Vous : i wasnt ladder i was waiting you on the ladder Vous : i was on the game wiating you and i was on the toilet.... i didnt play ladder you are so bad manner MorroW : admin told me u were playing its not my fault its too late now anyway sorry Vous : ... whuy you said me "ok"? for wait 5min i was shitting Vous : you always do that you are so fucking dumb So i was on the tournament, i maked the game for the 3rd round vs Morrow and i said him wait 5 min, he said me ok, i was on the toilet "shitting" and what he did? he said at the admin i wasnt here and i was playing ladder! And i maked the game for this match and he get the forfait! (it was exactly only 5min) So morrow will never change, fucking bad manner with 2 bo on starcraft2 cheese marines scv or expand first... he is so funny! he is lucky starcraft2 willnot lan atm And thx for the admin Cruft cup didnt do nothing! so you can take the win without play! nice admins saying me : Maista dit : for today youa re out, sorry lets play later for that ha ha ha nice morrow nice admins http://craftcup.com/index.php?site=newsfucking so dumb You can say "wtf" was 3 weeks before this story
Holy shit thats a pussy move by Morrow.
Of course hes like 17 so that kind of immaturity doesn't stun me.
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On May 01 2010 04:57 cyclone25 wrote:
hey DeA (aka Moutas), why don't you tell everyone the full story? Actually Nightend was online all the time, but had some problems with SC2 (couldn't add friends and chat with you - smth like that). He asked me to do it instead, so I contacted you on battlenet but you ignored my messages.
We waited some more, and then Nightend contacted an admin and also sent them a print screen I made with me contacting you about the game.
You msged me when I was finishing my 3rd match and said something about him being online. I had him f added the whole time and he was never online. How come I could contact my previous opponents just fine and his account had a problem? And if he did have a problem then why not contact an admin sooner to resolve the matter? Why wait until I am ready to play my 4th round match?
And you think brotkohl didn't check to see if he was online or not?
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On May 01 2010 04:57 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 04:52 MoMaN- wrote:MorroW : rdy? Vous : yes in 5min and go! MorroW : k Vous : go? MorroW : no admin gave me win u cant just go ladder in middle of tournament im playing other guy now Vous : ? i wasnt on ladder stop i said you wait 5 min stop be unfair Vous : i wasnt ladder i was waiting you on the ladder Vous : i was on the game wiating you and i was on the toilet.... i didnt play ladder you are so bad manner MorroW : admin told me u were playing its not my fault its too late now anyway sorry Vous : ... whuy you said me "ok"? for wait 5min i was shitting Vous : you always do that you are so fucking dumb So i was on the tournament, i maked the game for the 3rd round vs Morrow and i said him wait 5 min, he said me ok, i was on the toilet "shitting" and what he did? he said at the admin i wasnt here and i was playing ladder! And i maked the game for this match and he get the forfait! (it was exactly only 5min) So morrow will never change, fucking bad manner with 2 bo on starcraft2 cheese marines scv or expand first... he is so funny! he is lucky starcraft2 willnot lan atm And thx for the admin Cruft cup didnt do nothing! so you can take the win without play! nice admins saying me : Maista dit : for today youa re out, sorry lets play later for that ha ha ha nice morrow nice admins http://craftcup.com/index.php?site=newsfucking so dumb You can say "wtf" was 3 weeks before this story Holy shit thats a pussy move by Morrow. Of course hes like 17 so that kind of immaturity doesn't stun me.
Morrow just prolly has beef with Mamon. Given how Mamon gets sometimes i wont be jumping on hate Morrow bandwagon just for that lil thing.
id just like to clarify i have nothing against moman just you know your manners can be irritating sometiems ie last Zotac vs naniwa?^^
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 01 2010 04:59 DeA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 04:57 cyclone25 wrote:
hey DeA (aka Moutas), why don't you tell everyone the full story? Actually Nightend was online all the time, but had some problems with SC2 (couldn't add friends and chat with you - smth like that). He asked me to do it instead, so I contacted you on battlenet but you ignored my messages.
We waited some more, and then Nightend contacted an admin and also sent them a print screen I made with me contacting you about the game. You msged me when I was finishing my 3rd match and said something about him being online. I had him f added the whole time and he was never online. How come I could contact my previous opponents just fine and his account had a problem? And if he did have a problem then why not contact an admin sooner to resolve the matter? Why wait until I am ready to play my 4th round match? And you think brotkohl didn't check to see if he was online or not?
Not gonna take sides here, but yesterday nobody could see me as online despite me being online - so it's possible that's what Nightend had.
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loll some people going on about how 'oh it was probably just miscommunication' etc.
???
he played past the round. making him go back to play round 2 is stupid - I dont know how it even works?? that's not miscommunication. that's just plain noobication. (o snap i just made up a word).
anywho, it's like what they say:
what you see is usually only just the tip of the iceberg. (i.e., for every one admin you find out that's this noob, 10 more that you didn't find out about are probably exactly as nooblike).
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Yeh, to be fair I have seen that bug happen, was weird though cause I could still invite the guy to my game.
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this has also happened in wc3's zotac cup with admins favoring bigger names. i believe nightend also had an incident in zotac awhile back accusing someone of mh (who wasnt hacking) and getting the forfeit win after he initially lost.
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yea but another point to consider is that even if what Cyclone says is correct it would give grounds to disqualify Moutas, yes, but not to advance Nightend. One thing is 100% certain is that Nightend has received preferred treatment.
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Yeah, even with the forced forfeit of Moutas, you'd think Nightend would have to repeat the Round 3 game that Moutas had previously already won.
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On May 01 2010 05:00 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 04:57 PanzerDragoon wrote:On May 01 2010 04:52 MoMaN- wrote:MorroW : rdy? Vous : yes in 5min and go! MorroW : k Vous : go? MorroW : no admin gave me win u cant just go ladder in middle of tournament im playing other guy now Vous : ? i wasnt on ladder stop i said you wait 5 min stop be unfair Vous : i wasnt ladder i was waiting you on the ladder Vous : i was on the game wiating you and i was on the toilet.... i didnt play ladder you are so bad manner MorroW : admin told me u were playing its not my fault its too late now anyway sorry Vous : ... whuy you said me "ok"? for wait 5min i was shitting Vous : you always do that you are so fucking dumb So i was on the tournament, i maked the game for the 3rd round vs Morrow and i said him wait 5 min, he said me ok, i was on the toilet "shitting" and what he did? he said at the admin i wasnt here and i was playing ladder! And i maked the game for this match and he get the forfait! (it was exactly only 5min) So morrow will never change, fucking bad manner with 2 bo on starcraft2 cheese marines scv or expand first... he is so funny! he is lucky starcraft2 willnot lan atm And thx for the admin Cruft cup didnt do nothing! so you can take the win without play! nice admins saying me : Maista dit : for today youa re out, sorry lets play later for that ha ha ha nice morrow nice admins http://craftcup.com/index.php?site=newsfucking so dumb You can say "wtf" was 3 weeks before this story Holy shit thats a pussy move by Morrow. Of course hes like 17 so that kind of immaturity doesn't stun me. Morrow just prolly has beef with Mamon. Given how Mamon gets sometimes i wont be jumping on hate Morrow bandwagon just for that lil thing. id just like to clarify i have nothing against moman just you know your manners can be irritating sometiems ie last Zotac vs naniwa?^^
Yes i said the thing, he insulting on the final of zotac cup when 5000 people looking the match with stream saying i am a cheater so yes i was so agressif and i said so many bad thing, but i hate people said something like that and think for him so many people think i am a cheater
And i apologized at all people (admins player streamer speectateurs) for what i said and i will not do again.
i dont say i am perfect, but i got my blood hot
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Lal, if only
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As my principle would do I must say that since one says that one kid did this and the other kid did that I think that until proof is found there is no way anyone can or should be punished.
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"yea but another point to consider is that even if what Cyclone says is correct it would give grounds to disqualify Moutas, yes, but not to advance Nightend. One thing is 100% certain is that Nightend has received preferred treatment. "
Agreed, Sfydjklm.
Cyclone25, if Nightend is unable to play in the tournament for some reason, even if it's out of his control, then that sucks for him. There's no reason why the whole tournament should break down and other people should get screwed over.
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On May 01 2010 05:03 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 04:59 DeA wrote:On May 01 2010 04:57 cyclone25 wrote:
hey DeA (aka Moutas), why don't you tell everyone the full story? Actually Nightend was online all the time, but had some problems with SC2 (couldn't add friends and chat with you - smth like that). He asked me to do it instead, so I contacted you on battlenet but you ignored my messages.
We waited some more, and then Nightend contacted an admin and also sent them a print screen I made with me contacting you about the game. You msged me when I was finishing my 3rd match and said something about him being online. I had him f added the whole time and he was never online. How come I could contact my previous opponents just fine and his account had a problem? And if he did have a problem then why not contact an admin sooner to resolve the matter? Why wait until I am ready to play my 4th round match? And you think brotkohl didn't check to see if he was online or not? Not gonna take sides here, but yesterday nobody could see me as online despite me being online - so it's possible that's what Nightend had.
whether nightend was online or not for the second match, as stated above, he was already FINISHED his THIRD match. I think, even though it is a short end of the stick for nightend, it would have been prudent to continue the tournament... action has passed already and 3rd round was played.. what is 3rd round player suppose to do if some 2nd round player has to rematch? rematch 3rd round?
the point is, this is in no way the participants fault, whether it was a misunderstanding, server problem or administrative disagreement.
the admin should have been in contact with each other as well in order to be consistent on how to deal any situation that arises.
lack of responsibility running a tournament is the problem here. its fine if you want to organize a tournament, just dont get 32 people to show up and then give them 2 hours of frustration and uncoodrination.
the admin said "walkover" therefore he walked over and played his third match. if i were in a tournament and i was an hour late, regardless of whether that reason was a heart-attack or simply didn't wake up in time, i would very much doubt they would restart the entire process just so i could participate. that is both irresponsible for the host tournament organizers and very selfish on my part if that is what i demanded.
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I hate reading crap like this. Hope whoever is at fault comes forward and the full story comes out (I'm not implying that the OP is wrong, but as you said, I always like seeing the full story from all sides) Sounds pretty bad, and hopefully they have a damn good explanation.
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On May 01 2010 05:08 MoMaN- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 05:00 Sfydjklm wrote:On May 01 2010 04:57 PanzerDragoon wrote:On May 01 2010 04:52 MoMaN- wrote:MorroW : rdy? Vous : yes in 5min and go! MorroW : k Vous : go? MorroW : no admin gave me win u cant just go ladder in middle of tournament im playing other guy now Vous : ? i wasnt on ladder stop i said you wait 5 min stop be unfair Vous : i wasnt ladder i was waiting you on the ladder Vous : i was on the game wiating you and i was on the toilet.... i didnt play ladder you are so bad manner MorroW : admin told me u were playing its not my fault its too late now anyway sorry Vous : ... whuy you said me "ok"? for wait 5min i was shitting Vous : you always do that you are so fucking dumb So i was on the tournament, i maked the game for the 3rd round vs Morrow and i said him wait 5 min, he said me ok, i was on the toilet "shitting" and what he did? he said at the admin i wasnt here and i was playing ladder! And i maked the game for this match and he get the forfait! (it was exactly only 5min) So morrow will never change, fucking bad manner with 2 bo on starcraft2 cheese marines scv or expand first... he is so funny! he is lucky starcraft2 willnot lan atm And thx for the admin Cruft cup didnt do nothing! so you can take the win without play! nice admins saying me : Maista dit : for today youa re out, sorry lets play later for that ha ha ha nice morrow nice admins http://craftcup.com/index.php?site=newsfucking so dumb You can say "wtf" was 3 weeks before this story Holy shit thats a pussy move by Morrow. Of course hes like 17 so that kind of immaturity doesn't stun me. Morrow just prolly has beef with Mamon. Given how Mamon gets sometimes i wont be jumping on hate Morrow bandwagon just for that lil thing. id just like to clarify i have nothing against moman just you know your manners can be irritating sometiems ie last Zotac vs naniwa?^^ Yes i said the thing, he insulting on the final of zotac cup when 5000 people looking the match with stream saying i am a cheater so yes i was so agressif and i said so many bad thing, but i hate people said something like that and think for him so many people think i am a cheater And i apologized at all people (admins player streamer speectateurs) for what i said and i will not do again. i dont say i am perfect, but i got my blood hot
well all im saying is- what Morrow did is 100% wrong but i don't think we should be calling him evil just yet.
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On May 01 2010 05:00 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 04:57 PanzerDragoon wrote:On May 01 2010 04:52 MoMaN- wrote:MorroW : rdy? Vous : yes in 5min and go! MorroW : k Vous : go? MorroW : no admin gave me win u cant just go ladder in middle of tournament im playing other guy now Vous : ? i wasnt on ladder stop i said you wait 5 min stop be unfair Vous : i wasnt ladder i was waiting you on the ladder Vous : i was on the game wiating you and i was on the toilet.... i didnt play ladder you are so bad manner MorroW : admin told me u were playing its not my fault its too late now anyway sorry Vous : ... whuy you said me "ok"? for wait 5min i was shitting Vous : you always do that you are so fucking dumb So i was on the tournament, i maked the game for the 3rd round vs Morrow and i said him wait 5 min, he said me ok, i was on the toilet "shitting" and what he did? he said at the admin i wasnt here and i was playing ladder! And i maked the game for this match and he get the forfait! (it was exactly only 5min) So morrow will never change, fucking bad manner with 2 bo on starcraft2 cheese marines scv or expand first... he is so funny! he is lucky starcraft2 willnot lan atm And thx for the admin Cruft cup didnt do nothing! so you can take the win without play! nice admins saying me : Maista dit : for today youa re out, sorry lets play later for that ha ha ha nice morrow nice admins http://craftcup.com/index.php?site=newsfucking so dumb You can say "wtf" was 3 weeks before this story Holy shit thats a pussy move by Morrow. Of course hes like 17 so that kind of immaturity doesn't stun me. Morrow just prolly has beef with Mamon. Given how Mamon gets sometimes i wont be jumping on hate Morrow bandwagon just for that lil thing. id just like to clarify i have nothing against moman just you know your manners can be irritating sometiems ie last Zotac vs naniwa?^^
Yeah cuz naniwa totally didn't call MoMaN a cheater
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On May 01 2010 05:14 SpiDaH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 05:00 Sfydjklm wrote:On May 01 2010 04:57 PanzerDragoon wrote:On May 01 2010 04:52 MoMaN- wrote:MorroW : rdy? Vous : yes in 5min and go! MorroW : k Vous : go? MorroW : no admin gave me win u cant just go ladder in middle of tournament im playing other guy now Vous : ? i wasnt on ladder stop i said you wait 5 min stop be unfair Vous : i wasnt ladder i was waiting you on the ladder Vous : i was on the game wiating you and i was on the toilet.... i didnt play ladder you are so bad manner MorroW : admin told me u were playing its not my fault its too late now anyway sorry Vous : ... whuy you said me "ok"? for wait 5min i was shitting Vous : you always do that you are so fucking dumb So i was on the tournament, i maked the game for the 3rd round vs Morrow and i said him wait 5 min, he said me ok, i was on the toilet "shitting" and what he did? he said at the admin i wasnt here and i was playing ladder! And i maked the game for this match and he get the forfait! (it was exactly only 5min) So morrow will never change, fucking bad manner with 2 bo on starcraft2 cheese marines scv or expand first... he is so funny! he is lucky starcraft2 willnot lan atm And thx for the admin Cruft cup didnt do nothing! so you can take the win without play! nice admins saying me : Maista dit : for today youa re out, sorry lets play later for that ha ha ha nice morrow nice admins http://craftcup.com/index.php?site=newsfucking so dumb You can say "wtf" was 3 weeks before this story Holy shit thats a pussy move by Morrow. Of course hes like 17 so that kind of immaturity doesn't stun me. Morrow just prolly has beef with Mamon. Given how Mamon gets sometimes i wont be jumping on hate Morrow bandwagon just for that lil thing. id just like to clarify i have nothing against moman just you know your manners can be irritating sometiems ie last Zotac vs naniwa?^^ Yeah cuz naniwa totally didn't call MoMaN a cheater
that is not the point of discussion here.
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"the admin said "walkover" therefore he walked over and played his third match. if i were in a tournament and i was an hour late, regardless of whether that reason was a heart-attack or simply didn't wake up in time, i would very much doubt they would restart the entire process just so i could participate. that is both irresponsible for the host tournament organizers and very selfish on my part if that is what i demanded. "
Agreed, NightOne.
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Even if Nigthend had a seizure, his dog was on fire, his pizza was late, even if his game is bugged, it doesnt matter. If he cant play within a certain amount of (Reasonable, in this case 15mins) time, he should get DQ'ed for not showing up.
He can sit and tell his friend to tell the tourney director that "hes online but the game isnt working" the entire day, but that doesnt get the match played, and with that, halting the progress of the tourney.
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Wow, there has definitely been a change in attitude about getting matches done on time since that thread about Huk's DQ a few weeks back.
I mean, this was definitely handled badly by the admins, but (and this is hypothetical for now because we don't know what happened) can you imagine if Nightend had been in communication with one admin about his computer problem, who assured him that he could still play if it was resolved by some certain time, and then another admin DQed him? Seems to me that would be even more unfair than what happened to Mouta, who after all could have stayed in the tourney if he had wanted to.
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admin note from CraftCup:
What Moutas was doing was very close to cheating. Explanation will be posted during the evening
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DEA !!! Name and Identifier please. It's AngeL.
I'm surprised haps mom still lets you play.
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On May 01 2010 05:25 Erucious wrote:
Even if Nigthend had a seizure, his dog was on fire, his pizza was late, even if his game is bugged, it doesnt matter. If he cant play within a certain amount of (Reasonable, in this case 15mins) time, he should get DQ'ed for not showing up.
He can sit and tell his friend to tell the tourney director that "hes online but the game isnt working" the entire day, but that doesnt get the match played, and with that, halting the progress of the tourney.
This, if your gear isnt ready/working its your own fault, even if its out of your control.
You are a race car driver, and your teams car breaks down, and is unfix able because a gasket/belt/computer system broke, they wont pause the race and wait for you.
It shouldnt matter that Night was online, he was unable to play and keep pace and is there fore DQ's.
How is it cheating if you cant see your opponent and neither can anyone else other than his "friend"
id also like to see the screen shot that was sent.
also further evidence of favoritism is just going to hurt the tournament, sure your best friend could be eliminated but its his loss.
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On May 01 2010 04:57 cyclone25 wrote:
hey DeA (aka Moutas), why don't you tell everyone the full story? Actually Nightend was online all the time, but had some problems with SC2 (couldn't add friends and chat with you - smth like that). He asked me to do it instead, so I contacted you on battlenet but you ignored my messages.
We waited some more, and then Nightend contacted an admin and also sent them a print screen I made with me contacting you about the game.
Hi, Romanian supposed-craftcup-admin-or-nightends-friend-or-something-similiar.
"Players who cause huge delays by going afk or having a lot of discs may possibly be removed from a running tournament. The active admin can take this decision when a match delays the progress of the whole tournament."
Straight from the rules.
"Coming to late 15 minutes will most likely result in a defloss. "
Straight from your rules.
Do you not think that him being unable to talk to friends or being seen online for over 25 minutes after the scheduled time isn't delaying the progress of the whole tournament?
Do you not think being over 25 minutes late is being late more than 15 minutes?
Didn't he just break 2 rules, then? Now, where do you see the rule "all this can be ignored if you over half an hour after your scheduled time post a screenshot of your friend messaging the player you're supposed to play"? I see it nowhere.
Do you not think that after playing your Round 3 match, going back to play your round 2 match is going to delay the tournament? Also, I'm REALLY curious of the basis at which the tournament would actually ban Moutas. "Hi, your opponent decided to break 2 of our rules but an hour later he wants to now play his round 2 match although you've played your round 3 match already, well fuck it you're disqualified from the tournament and he doesn't need to play his round 3 opponent since you already defeated him, that's the fairest possible decision AM I CORRECT?"
+ Show Spoiler [swearing] +Holy shit how retarded some idiots are in this world. These kinds of idiots really shouldn't be running tournaments if they can't even have a third-grader's common sense. Fucking favoritism and moronic decisions.
Also, post that screenshot. Why the hell would anyone care about you saying you got a screenshot but you not posting it? Sounds like you have nothing, or you just are not too bright.
And there was no basis on the DQ no matter what. What a retarded tournament, TL should boycott it and have it die if they do things like this.
I apologize if the language used isn't in TL standards.
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On May 01 2010 05:28 Maista wrote:
admin note from CraftCup:
What Moutas was doing was very close to cheating. Explanation will be posted during the evening
LOL the head admin told me that because I asked what to do and how long to wait for the 2nd round match it was like me cheating...
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This situation smells funny.. Especially the fact that nightend just gets autobye from the opponent this guy had allready beaten, that just seems really really weird. Going back and playing after you have allready won your next game is simply weird. Guess we will have to see what craftcup admins has to says for themselves, every case has 2 sides, but so far this seems really onesided
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On May 01 2010 05:28 Maista wrote:
admin note from CraftCup:
What Moutas was doing was very close to cheating. Explanation will be posted during the evening
"hi your opponent broke 2 of our rules IT'S LIKE YOU ARE CHEATING, BASTARD, DQ'D!!!!!"
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Hey head admin, explain...
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On May 01 2010 05:34 mistermetal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 05:25 Erucious wrote:
Even if Nigthend had a seizure, his dog was on fire, his pizza was late, even if his game is bugged, it doesnt matter. If he cant play within a certain amount of (Reasonable, in this case 15mins) time, he should get DQ'ed for not showing up.
He can sit and tell his friend to tell the tourney director that "hes online but the game isnt working" the entire day, but that doesnt get the match played, and with that, halting the progress of the tourney. This, if your gear isnt ready/working its your own fault, even if its out of your control. You are a race car driver, and your teams car breaks down, and is unfix able because a gasket/belt/computer system broke, they wont pause the race and wait for you. It shouldnt matter that Night was online, he was unable to play and keep pace and is there fore DQ's. How is it cheating if you cant see your opponent and neither can anyone else other than his "friend" id also like to see the screen shot that was sent. also further evidence of favoritism is just going to hurt the tournament, sure your best friend could be eliminated but its his loss.
Can you guys give some more related examples please? I still don't get it :o
Jokes aside, why so much explanation for something that's very easy to understand: some players have a bug in SC2 where others can't see them online. That's all.
Now let's wait for admins explanation, because from the info I got in this thread I think too admins made the wrong choice in making DeA go back to his round 2 game. But I'm not sure if we know the full story behind it ^^
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I don't care who broke the rules and should have been disqualified, the lack of proper communication among admins and between admins and players is appalling and should not be tolerated. Two admins should never be giving players conflicting answers, which clearly happened here regardless of what the players were doing.
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Good to know you're the head admin. Why not just say what happened? Since you already made a decision on what to do with DeA and Nightend, you already have concluded your decision and should stand by it really.
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Hmm...i'm very interested in the official explanation.
The way I see it, even if nightend had problems with his bnet and was invisible and couldn't chat (which seems like a legit bug based on the number of people who have had it happen to), once the OP had finished playing his round 3 game, that should've been the end of it. It sucks, but shit happens. If OP still had not finished or played his round 3 game, then it makes perfect sense to make him replay round 2. Additionally, one of the admins told OP to go ahead and play round 3. Not only that, but nightend got immediately advanced and didn't even have to play round 3! At the very least, nightend should've been forced to play round 3.
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On May 01 2010 05:41 Erucious wrote:
Good to know you're the head admin. Why not just say what happened? Since you already made a decision on what to do with DeA and Nightend, you already have concluded your decision and should stand by it really.
Finals and semis are currently going on, he might be busy with those right now.
On May 01 2010 05:42 Ryuu314 wrote:
Hmm...i'm very interested in the official explanation.
The way I see it, even if nightend had problems with his bnet and was invisible and couldn't chat (which seems like a legit bug based on the number of people who have had it happen to), once the OP had finished playing his round 3 game, that should've been the end of it. It sucks, but shit happens. If OP still had not finished or played his round 3 game, then it makes perfect sense to make him replay round 2. Additionally, one of the admins told OP to go ahead and play round 3. Not only that, but nightend got immediately advanced and didn't even have to play round 3! At the very least, nightend should've been forced to play round 3.
nightend didnt even play round 2.
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On May 01 2010 05:43 Chriamon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 05:41 Erucious wrote:
Good to know you're the head admin. Why not just say what happened? Since you already made a decision on what to do with DeA and Nightend, you already have concluded your decision and should stand by it really. Finals and semis are currently going on, he might be busy with those right now.
Or busy trying to make the untruthful explanation sound believable enough as to not completely turn the tournament from merely a joke into a full-fledged circus.
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On May 01 2010 03:39 Kralic wrote:
And this forum is going to do what for youÉ
he wants us to spread the word. this is how social change happens:
duly noted — fuck craftcup
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Someone whisper to nightend and tell him to post on this forum ^-^
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That an admin could come to the conclusion that it was a good idea to let Nigthend play even tho he broke the rules, even if it wasn't intentional, blows my mind.
Things like this happening already makes me sad:<
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Even if there were valid reasons for placing Nightend back in instead of the OP, I don't get why he was allowed to skip over the 3rd and 4th round and hop right into the 5th... Ah, no wonder since it's not what happened.
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I can understand they are busy with the last rounds. Give them a few hours to concoct a statement. But i agree, nightend skipping rounds just baffles me as well.
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WOw go look at craftcups brackets on their site!! It shows moutus getting the win in R2 over nightend and moutus winning R3 and then it shows night end didnt even play r3 (but his match with moutus was r2!!) looks like the GAVE NIGHTEND Moutus's spot in R4!!! Thats just wrong!
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On May 01 2010 05:48 Bane_ wrote:
Even if there were valid reasons for placing Nightend back in instead of the OP, I don't get why he was allowed to skip over the 3rd and 4th round and hop right into the 5th...
Stop posting like this if you don't know what happened lol ... Nightend played round 4 vs Drafter and won the game. He skipped round 3 because that opponent wasn't online anymore.
As I said, let's wait for admins explanation.
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Im realy sry that this happend ..
So i came on bnet at around 18.30 cet iv check-in in the cup then i waited the cup to start, after the cup started i saw i was in second round so i waited my oponent , after waiting like 30 min at 19.30 he won hi's first round so we had to play , i tryed to contact him but he didnt aswer nor i got any message from him , after 10 15 min after he was on the grid as winner of the 1st round iv asked 2 of my friend's to talk with him but he didnt answer so i just reported the problem on the crafcup site and after that in a few min one admin contacted me and he told me i got defloss becouse my opp said im offline after that i talked with him and he said he cant put me in the grid back becouse my opp was already playing round 3 and i was like wtf, he told me that another admin did a mistake and that we can play only if he will win round 3 if not he cant repair the situation and i said oke shit happen's , and luckly for me he won round 3 and admin told him about the mistake and asked him to play the round 2 but he didnt want to he was happy he got fw , what he is saying that he already played round 3 when my friend contacted i think its a lie but i cant prove that , the thing is i waited like 1 hour or more to play round 2 and he asked in 5 10 min for fw and after admin told him man u have to play round 2 we made a mistake he would get directly in to round 4 since he won round 3 so pls understand this i didnt ask for FW even if i waited 1 hour he did ask for fw after he waited 5 10 min , yes one admin did the mistake by giving him fw but this mistake could have been simply repaired if he had accpted to play the round 2 the truth is he didnt get what he wanted and that was a FW and now is crying about admin beign "friend" with me wich is lol becouse its first time in my life that i have a chat with any of thoes craftcups admins
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On May 01 2010 05:53 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 05:48 Bane_ wrote:
Even if there were valid reasons for placing Nightend back in instead of the OP, I don't get why he was allowed to skip over the 3rd and 4th round and hop right into the 5th... Stop posting like this if you don't know what happened lol ... Nightend played round 4 vs Drafter and won the game. He skipped round 3 because that opponent wasn't online anymore. As I said, let's wait for admins explanation.
After I was DQ'ed my 3rd round opponent was still online for like 10-15 minutes, he even messaged me later and asked what happened.
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Finnaly more of the story. So many harsh judgements in this thread it is pretty pathetic. I am still reserving my final retarded comment for when all 3 stories are told. Of course 2 of them might be false but go together so someone is proved wrong! /tinfoil cap
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On May 01 2010 05 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 01 2010 05 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:53 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 05:48 Bane_ wrote:
Even if there were valid reasons for placing Nightend back in instead of the OP, I don't get why he was allowed to skip over the 3rd and 4th round and hop right into the 5th... Stop posting like this if you don't know what happened lol ... Nightend played round 4 vs Drafter and won the game. He skipped round 3 because that opponent wasn't online anymore. As I said, let's wait for admins explanation.
Not true, upon learning that he was disqualified I hastily lept back on to battle net to find out what was happening, I even asked an admin. All i was told was that the guy I played was disqualified there was no mention of replaying any games.
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On May 01 2010 04:52 MoMaN- wrote:MorroW : rdy? Vous : yes in 5min and go! MorroW : k Vous : go? MorroW : no admin gave me win u cant just go ladder in middle of tournament im playing other guy now Vous : ? i wasnt on ladder stop i said you wait 5 min stop be unfair Vous : i wasnt ladder i was waiting you on the ladder Vous : i was on the game wiating you and i was on the toilet.... i didnt play ladder you are so bad manner MorroW : admin told me u were playing its not my fault its too late now anyway sorry Vous : ... whuy you said me "ok"? for wait 5min i was shitting Vous : you always do that you are so fucking dumb So i was on the tournament, i maked the game for the 3rd round vs Morrow and i said him wait 5 min, he said me ok, i was on the toilet "shitting" and what he did? he said at the admin i wasnt here and i was playing ladder! And i maked the game for this match and he get the forfait! (it was exactly only 5min) So morrow will never change, fucking bad manner with 2 bo on starcraft2 cheese marines scv or expand first... he is so funny! he is lucky starcraft2 willnot lan atm And thx for the admin Cruft cup didnt do nothing! so you can take the win without play! nice admins saying me : Maista dit : for today youa re out, sorry lets play later for that ha ha ha nice morrow nice admins http://craftcup.com/index.php?site=newsfucking so dumb You can say "wtf" was 3 weeks before this story
wow if thats true any respect I had for Morrow is gone... That is just very bad manner and don't know why Morrow would do that...
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From what it looks like based on nightend's explanation it all boils down to this:
Bnet 2.0 sucks.
People end up invisible for no reason and no chat channels = no communication.
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On May 01 2010 05:59 Ryuu314 wrote:
From what it looks like based on nightend's explanation it all boils down to this:
Bnet 2.0 sucks.
People end up invisible for no reason and no chat channels = no communication.
That doesn't explain Moutas "cheating" dunno why it takes tourney admins 2 hours to explain why he was disqualified
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Ever heard the old saying "There's 3 sides to every story, one person's side, the other side, and then what actually happend" but craftcups brackets do support moutus' story (showing him win r2 over nightend and winning r3, and nightend not even playing r3 and appearing in r4!) there probably going to change it tho.....
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wow, that must be the longest sentence ever.
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On May 01 2010 06:01 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 05:59 Ryuu314 wrote:
From what it looks like based on nightend's explanation it all boils down to this:
Bnet 2.0 sucks.
People end up invisible for no reason and no chat channels = no communication. That doesn't explain Moutas "cheating" dunno why it takes tourney admins 2 hours to explain why he was disqualified
They're making up a "story" for sure ^^
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Basically : nightend had a battle.net issue - and should have forfeited the game. ( first decision was correct - even if it's not his fault - you can't hold up the tournament because of one person ).
Admins tried to correct it in his favour and as a result screwed up the tournament for multiple other people.
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Well, there is razer games going on and not that many known players got to the grid, so it's not really surprising.
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that's what happens when more than 1 admin is managing the tournament >.> ...
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On May 01 2010 05:55 mTwNightEnD wrote:
Im realy sry that this happend ..
So i came on bnet at around 18.30 cet iv check-in in the cup then i waited the cup to start, after the cup started i saw i was in second round so i waited my oponent , after waiting like 30 min at 19.30 he won hi's first round so we had to play , i tryed to contact him but he didnt aswer nor i got any message from him , after 10 15 min after he was on the grid as winner of the 1st round iv asked 2 of my friend's to talk with him but he didnt answer so i just reported the problem on the crafcup site and after that in a few min one admin contacted me and he told me i got defloss becouse my opp said im offline after that i talked with him and he said he cant put me in the grid back becouse my opp was already playing round 3 and i was like wtf, he told me that another admin did a mistake and that we can play only if he will win round 3 if not he cant repair the situation and i said oke shit happen's , and luckly for me he won round 3 and admin told him about the mistake and asked him to play the round 2 but he didnt want to he was happy he got fw , what he is saying that he already played round 3 when my friend contacted i think its a lie but i cant prove that , the thing is i waited like 1 hour or more to play round 2 and he asked in 5 10 min for fw and after admin told him man u have to play round 2 we made a mistake he would get directly in to round 4 since he won round 3 so pls understand this i didnt ask for FW even if i waited 1 hour he did ask for fw after he waited 5 10 min , yes one admin did the mistake by giving him fw but this mistake could have been simply repaired if he had accpted to play the round 2 the truth is he didnt get what he wanted and that was a FW and now is crying about admin beign "friend" with me wich is lol becouse its first time in my life that i have a chat with any of thoes craftcups admins
First of all, I have nothing against you. This is CraftCup's fault for making such a problem.
Second, I didn't ask for a walkover, an admin gave me the walkover. I contacted an admin (brotkohl) so he can verify that you are not online and also tell me what rules there are and how long to wait.
Third, as I said previously, your friend contacted me when I was finishing my round 3 match. And that is a fact.
I am trying to get an explanation from the admins. There is no reason for you to post and try to make me appear like I am a little child ("he didnt get what he wanted and that was a FW and now is crying about admin beign "friend" with me wich is lol"). I also have never said anything about you being a friend or not with an admin. Stop posting nonsense. I have nothing against you.
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On May 01 2010 05:57 Kralic wrote:
Finnaly more of the story. So many harsh judgements in this thread it is pretty pathetic. I am still reserving my final retarded comment for when all 3 stories are told. Of course 2 of them might be false but go together so someone is proved wrong! /tinfoil cap
If what Nightend says is true, though, it still looks bad for the CraftCup admins. It means that the original admin that spoke with Moutas didn't even bother to check for himself to see if Nightend was online or to contact him in any way.
So whoever you side on here, this was bungled pretty badly by one or more admins. Either the original walkover was a huge mistake by an overzealous admin, or the DQ of Moutas was an overreach by a different admin, or both!
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I think we can all agree that the CraftCup should be completely dismantled, and that Husky and HD should host twice as many tournaments from now on. With Day9.
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this would be like if the dealer mucked a guys cards in poker, then the guy claims he had the winning hand, so they give the pot to that guy and disqualify his opponent for cheating.
seriously, wtf.
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On May 01 2010 05:08 MoMaN- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 05:00 Sfydjklm wrote:On May 01 2010 04:57 PanzerDragoon wrote:On May 01 2010 04:52 MoMaN- wrote:MorroW : rdy? Vous : yes in 5min and go! MorroW : k Vous : go? MorroW : no admin gave me win u cant just go ladder in middle of tournament im playing other guy now Vous : ? i wasnt on ladder stop i said you wait 5 min stop be unfair Vous : i wasnt ladder i was waiting you on the ladder Vous : i was on the game wiating you and i was on the toilet.... i didnt play ladder you are so bad manner MorroW : admin told me u were playing its not my fault its too late now anyway sorry Vous : ... whuy you said me "ok"? for wait 5min i was shitting Vous : you always do that you are so fucking dumb So i was on the tournament, i maked the game for the 3rd round vs Morrow and i said him wait 5 min, he said me ok, i was on the toilet "shitting" and what he did? he said at the admin i wasnt here and i was playing ladder! And i maked the game for this match and he get the forfait! (it was exactly only 5min) So morrow will never change, fucking bad manner with 2 bo on starcraft2 cheese marines scv or expand first... he is so funny! he is lucky starcraft2 willnot lan atm And thx for the admin Cruft cup didnt do nothing! so you can take the win without play! nice admins saying me : Maista dit : for today youa re out, sorry lets play later for that ha ha ha nice morrow nice admins http://craftcup.com/index.php?site=newsfucking so dumb You can say "wtf" was 3 weeks before this story Holy shit thats a pussy move by Morrow. Of course hes like 17 so that kind of immaturity doesn't stun me. Morrow just prolly has beef with Mamon. Given how Mamon gets sometimes i wont be jumping on hate Morrow bandwagon just for that lil thing. id just like to clarify i have nothing against moman just you know your manners can be irritating sometiems ie last Zotac vs naniwa?^^ Yes i said the thing, he insulting on the final of zotac cup when 5000 people looking the match with stream saying i am a cheater so yes i was so agressif and i said so many bad thing, but i hate people said something like that and think for him so many people think i am a cheater And i apologized at all people (admins player streamer speectateurs) for what i said and i will not do again. i dont say i am perfect, but i got my blood hot
"Swedish undead player, Naniwa has long been known for his boorishness and inappropiate conduct in the entire professional gaming scene. [...]"
(http://www.mymym.com/de/news/11751.html)
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Wow what a mess. Technical difficulties and admins reversing decisions, it seems like the fault lies with the organisators and not the players. If they have learned something and can prevent future events to have such situations, maybe it will become a nice tourney after all.
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I've played in CraftCup and had no such problems. But as far as I know it's a rather small scale tournament not run by hugely officlal groups. That did seem like a bad decision and must have been frustrating. But at the end of the day, it was a one time isolated incident, within a cash prize tournament that you were allowed to sign up and compete in for free. It can't be easy administrating events like this in game and mistakes are bound to happen.
I appreciate the frustration but the CraftCup guys do do a good job and people shouldn't feel put off by this post / incident.
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On May 01 2010 06:22 Tone_ wrote:
I appreciate the frustration but the CraftCup guys do do a good job and people shouldn't feel put off by this post / incident.
People shouldn't feel put off only if the admins explain what happened forthrightly and apologize at least for giving Moutas conflicting information and generally making boneheaded decisions.
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On May 01 2010 05:53 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 05:48 Bane_ wrote:
Even if there were valid reasons for placing Nightend back in instead of the OP, I don't get why he was allowed to skip over the 3rd and 4th round and hop right into the 5th... Stop posting like this if you don't know what happened lol ... Nightend played round 4 vs Drafter and won the game. He skipped round 3 because that opponent wasn't online anymore. As I said, let's wait for admins explanation.
TECHNICALLY ROUND 3 should now be back in the tournament now that are on ROUND 5 according to past logic and nightend should be DQ'd for "cheating" LOL...
then when ROUND 7 comes long.. we DQ the guy that was afk after losing the frist ROUND3 game and then Round 9... etc...
THIS IS WHY YOUR LOGIC IS COMLETELY FLAWED.
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wow im watching the finals and the announcer just left to smoke when its 2/1 in a bo5
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Should have posted this stream earlier. Would have wanted to watch sooner if only i knew...
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well the tourney is over now jinro wins over huk 3/1 , I can't wait to see how they explain their own brackets showing moutus over nightend r2, moutus wins r3 and then nightend takes motous spot in r4. when they dq'd moutus for arguing about playing r2 after he played r3 and then nightend doesnt have to play r2 or r3!!
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Tbh nightend didn't do what he should have and contact the admins straight away, he waited a million hours to get his friend to contact the Moutas while Moutas was in game.
brotkohl is said to be able to confirm that Nightend wasn't online, Moutas checked with admins multiple times but nightend didn't clearly. Had nightend contacted an admin when he said 5-10mins and not the 25mins Moutas actually waited then that admin would have instantly friend added moutas to check his online status; but that didn't happen showing no contact to an admin during the required times upto 25mins after game start time when an admin had been checking on nightends online status.
It's pretty clear the 2nd admin skrewed up and he and the friend of nightend just don't add up with what is being said.
P.S. Not that I care but just make a Rule to sort things out for the future.
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On May 01 2010 06:30 Reborn8u wrote:
wow im watching the finals and the announcer just left to smoke when its 2/1 in a bo5
Another reason to keep an eye on next CraftCup! ...or not
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And so the sc2 scandals begin!!
Now I will beat a pro a pro when the odds are against me and make that pro millions!! BWAHAHAHA.
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That is bs. Show up to work a few hours late and see what happens to your ass. If what I read is true, then you don't show up you lose.
I've seen a couple of people talk about delaying a match for hours or day, that is ridiculous. When you are supposed to be somewhere at a specific time, you do it, otherwise you lose. How would a tournament of any decent size ever finish, if every other person was allowed to just show up whenever they felt like it.
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On May 01 2010 03:39 Kralic wrote:
And this forum is going to do what for youÉ
This tournament deserves to be exposed for bullshit like this.
That being said, I would have just played nightend even if I was pissed off about it.
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On May 01 2010 05:55 mTwNightEnD wrote:
GIANT WALL OF TEXT
Paragraphs and punctuation. Look it up. It's an unreadable mess right now.
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die craft cup stop suck dick
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On May 01 2010 06:52 Ronald_McD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 03:39 Kralic wrote:
And this forum is going to do what for youÉ This tournament deserves to be exposed for bullshit like this. That being said, I would have just played nightend even if I was pissed off about it.
Its kinda double-edged this one. Yeah you could play it again because you want to prove that you are better, and that you deserve to be there. Then again, you wan to get deep into the tournament as well.
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On May 01 2010 06:59 Erucious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 06:52 Ronald_McD wrote:On May 01 2010 03:39 Kralic wrote:
And this forum is going to do what for youÉ This tournament deserves to be exposed for bullshit like this. That being said, I would have just played nightend even if I was pissed off about it. Its kinda double-edged this one. Yeah you could play it again because you want to prove that you are better, and that you deserve to be there. Then again, you wan to get deep into the tournament as well.
Yeah, but he got kicked out for not playing nightend anyways.
Some people won't stand for that kind of bullshit
But I'm kinda easy going so I would have just played the games and had fun.
Not saying he did the wrong thing by refusing to play the games, nightend should have been disqualified for not showing up.
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"I continue playing and win my round 3 match. So now I have a round 4 match to play, right? Wrong. Another admin now contacts me and says I have to go back and play my round 2 match cause nightend is now online and there was a misunderstanding. This has got to be a joke... I tell him that another admin gave me the walkover after 20 minutes of waiting, but he insists that I have to play my round 2 match otherwise he will kick me out of the tour. And I'm like "man u have rules and I followed them, why arent you doing the same?". I also ask him where are the rules that say anything about this matter. No response.
Clearly because the admins stuffed up now they were blaming me for round 2. Instead of him talking with the other admins and resolving this for future tournaments, he just kicks me out of the tour for what?"
Doesn't sound like he refused to play just demanded an explanation of the decision and the rules and was kicked. Even though an admin gave him the win, he's supposed to play r2 after r3, so instead of giving him 1 win they gave nightend 2 wins and gave him moutus' spot in r4
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I thought it was implied that he refused to play and got kicked out.
But he got kicked out just for asking a clarification on the rules? That's just stupid.
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I refused to play until the head admin showed me what rule supports his decision. Since he didn't provide me any such rule, I decided not to play.
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(Based on current information)
This seems like one of those situations were there simply isn't any fair solution. Overall the admins should've let Dea continue though. I mean, if you can't trust their word, then the cup is in trouble.
I hope DeA gets an apology and everybody can live happily ever after!
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I wish flash wouldve refused to play lol
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I gotta admit I'm with Moutas/Dea here. He followed the rules, contacted admins when he should have, and played his matches promptly. Moutas did nothing wrong at all, not even a little bit. He should not have been disqualified. Favoritism in a tournament is a big no, no. It doesn't matter who it is.
/sarcasm on.
Yay, for having rules and not following them!!
/sarcasm off.
"i didnt ask for FW even if i waited 1 hour he did ask for fw after he waited 5 10 min".
He waited 20 minutes and I believe him, after 20 minutes the admin gave him a pass. Moutas followed the rules and got an initial fw. You did not. Next time follow the rules. I know you think you were being nice not asking for a FW but rules are rules even if they are only implied. If you cannot get in touch with your opponent let someone know promptly.
Admins were retarded in every way letting this go down the way it did. /facepalm
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On May 01 2010 06:27 bohuslav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 06:22 Tone_ wrote:
I appreciate the frustration but the CraftCup guys do do a good job and people shouldn't feel put off by this post / incident. People shouldn't feel put off only if the admins explain what happened forthrightly and apologize at least for giving Moutas conflicting information and generally making boneheaded decisions.
If you don't want to play in a free, prizepool tournament then don't. Not going to be top quality all the time.
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My predictions if the matches aren't played:
Game 1: Huk 4 gates all in, Huk Wins
Game 2: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins
Game 3: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins
Game 4: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins
Exciting Series!
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On May 01 2010 07:22 PokePill wrote:My predictions if the matches aren't played: Game 1: Huk 4 gates all in, Huk Wins Game 2: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Game 3: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Game 4: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Exciting Series!
lol sounds pretty accurate, though that could describe any protoss
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any tournament that doesnt follow their own rules should really reconsider what they want todo with their system. as soon as the'res any favoritism then they fail in my eyes. Having 15minut waiting period and someone shows at 30minuts and next round hasnt been played yet ye sure admin can enforce a match still being played but playing r3 and then enforcing r2 to be replayed is just bullshit even the kicking of a player for that reason should be unacceptable for an head admin. and they should show that they see the problem and atleast write a appology for this behavior and enforce it not to happen again.
they attach a price to the cup aint it? should show some professionalism then if you ask me and atleast follow the rules that they made up and not adjust them cause they want some name to be playing all his games.
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I mean, not to be discriminating against another community or anything, but I'm not so sure that the RA3 community is up for running a high level Starcraft2 Tournament.
Hopefully they don't try to avoid the situation.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 01 2010 07:22 PokePill wrote:My predictions if the matches aren't played: Game 1: Huk 4 gates all in, Huk Wins Game 2: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Game 3: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Game 4: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Exciting Series!
Hehe, there were no 4 gate all-ins being used at all actually! :D
Game 1: Huk 1 robo 3 gate (I think), Jinro goes thor drop, Jinro Wins
Game 2: Huk goes zeal/sentry + void ray, Jinro goes reaper -> thor+starport, Jinro wins
Game 3: Jinro goes 7 rax reaper, Huk defends, Huk wins
Game 4: Huk goes proxy gates, Jinro defends, Jinro wins
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Grats jinro on your win! I feel so sorry sometimes seeing you underperform in high pressure tourney situations (razer domi, HDH etc etc). Good to see you in form and taking control of the matches .
Moar tourney wins for you now! Also i like how you speak in 3rd person there 
On topic:
Any update yet on this matter?
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On May 01 2010 08:15 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 07:22 PokePill wrote:My predictions if the matches aren't played: Game 1: Huk 4 gates all in, Huk Wins Game 2: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Game 3: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Game 4: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Exciting Series! Hehe, there were no 4 gate all-ins being used at all actually! :D Game 1: Huk 1 robo 3 gate (I think), Jinro goes thor drop, Jinro Wins Game 2: Huk goes zeal/sentry + void ray, Jinro goes reaper -> thor+starport, Jinro wins Game 3: Jinro goes 7 rax reaper, Huk defends, Huk wins Game 4: Huk goes proxy gates, Jinro defends, Jinro wins
replays? ?
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Here is the official CraftCup "Pressrelease". Same version as linked in the latest CraftCup news.
Super Short Summary:
2 guys having a Bnet bug. One guy refusing to play after bug is resolved. Same guy has to leave the tournament.
Circumstances:
During the tournament a B.net bug occured for many users, that we documented like this. It was possible for a User A not to see a User B, although both were online. At the exact same time a User C was able to see A but no B. So it was pretty much random and it happened to admins and players. Testimonial linked at the bottom. So this is true.
The full story:
Both players were online all the time. I have no doubts about that. Mountas (aka DeA on TL.net) was the first one to file a freewin request because in his eye, Nightend appeared offline. This is an obvious and correct reaction. He had the bug described above and didnt see Nightend. The ticket was worked out by the referee brotkohl. He went through the regular procedure, checked if Nightend was online or not, and based his decision on that. Rare case popped up: He also didn't see him online. So he obviously gave a freewin.
Based on two wrong facts which he wasn't aware of.
When I was personally contacted that something might be strange I tried to contact both Nightend and Mountas. And for me it was possible to contact both. Sadly Mountas was already playing his round 3 match at the time we noticed we were all suffering from a bug.
After winning that match I explained the bug to him and that the freewin that he got wasn't a decision base don the right facts. He instantly refused to "re-play" the match against Nightend. It was the fairest solution to me to decide that on the battlefield and not in a discussion. I even gave him a clear warning and explained it to him multiple times.
Also to be mentioned: Nightend did not follow the rules and contacted an admin for a freewin when he was waiting more than 15 minutes.
It is up to the reader to interpret this.
Rule background:
In Mountases argumentation he is talking about a missing background in the rules for such a case.
I just keep it simple: If something unforseeable happens, and there is a possibility for a game to be played, then it has to be played.
For me that feels so natural that i didnt even include it in the rules.
Bottom notes:
Testimonial of the bug by Frozenarbiter and Jdanzi:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5149486
Why did this press release take so long?
There are indicators that Mountas was ignoring messages from a friend of Nightend during the situation on purpose. We did not find evidence on that.
Also people complaining about favouritism: Guys, two weeks ago we kicked the maybe best American player right now out of a tournament.
Everybody who would like to discuss anything of this topic with me, you will be able to find my contact details on the CraftCup site or just PM me here.
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On May 01 2010 08:28 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 08:15 FrozenArbiter wrote:On May 01 2010 07:22 PokePill wrote:My predictions if the matches aren't played: Game 1: Huk 4 gates all in, Huk Wins Game 2: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Game 3: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Game 4: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Exciting Series! Hehe, there were no 4 gate all-ins being used at all actually! :D Game 1: Huk 1 robo 3 gate (I think), Jinro goes thor drop, Jinro Wins Game 2: Huk goes zeal/sentry + void ray, Jinro goes reaper -> thor+starport, Jinro wins Game 3: Jinro goes 7 rax reaper, Huk defends, Huk wins Game 4: Huk goes proxy gates, Jinro defends, Jinro wins replays? ?
http://craftcup.com/?site=upload&matchid=9142
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I thought the admin came here and posted that was Moultas did was "very close to cheating." Where in his explanation was the part where Moultas was anywhere close to cheating? Also, he says "he has no doubts" that Nightend was online but claims no witnesses to the fact, in fact, the two witnesses (one of his own admins) both showed that he was indeed not on.
Also, no explanation on why Nightend was given a bye to Round 4 instead of having to play the Round 3 opponent that Moultas faced.
Clearly it's their tournament to run as they see fit, but the formal explanation was left lacking.
In other news: Congrats to Jinro!!! I can't wait to see these replays, I couldn't watch the streams.
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right now i am compiling an excuse to jdanzi, who was the only person who was treated unfairly in the whole process in my opinion.
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-10 respect for MtW and euro craft cup.
Grats to Jinro though, nice matches.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 01 2010 08:28 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 08:15 FrozenArbiter wrote:On May 01 2010 07:22 PokePill wrote:My predictions if the matches aren't played: Game 1: Huk 4 gates all in, Huk Wins Game 2: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Game 3: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Game 4: Huk 4 gates all in, Jinro Wins Exciting Series! Hehe, there were no 4 gate all-ins being used at all actually! :D Game 1: Huk 1 robo 3 gate (I think), Jinro goes thor drop, Jinro Wins Game 2: Huk goes zeal/sentry + void ray, Jinro goes reaper -> thor+starport, Jinro wins Game 3: Jinro goes 7 rax reaper, Huk defends, Huk wins Game 4: Huk goes proxy gates, Jinro defends, Jinro wins replays? ?
http://craftcup.com/?site=upload&matchid=9142
All should be there =]
On May 01 2010 08:17 Erucious wrote:Grats jinro on your win! I feel so sorry sometimes seeing you underperform in high pressure tourney situations (razer domi, HDH etc etc). Good to see you in form and taking control of the matches . Moar tourney wins for you now! Also i like how you speak in 3rd person there On topic: Any update yet on this matter?
Thx, was nice to be able to play without any nerves this time.
On May 01 2010 08:30 Maista wrote:Here is the official CraftCup "Pressrelease". Same version as linked in the latest CraftCup news. Super Short Summary:2 guys having a Bnet bug. One guy refusing to play after bug is resolved. Same guy has to leave the tournament. Circumstances: During the tournament a B.net bug occured for many users, that we documented like this. It was possible for a User A not to see a User B, although both were online. At the exact same time a User C was able to see A but no B. So it was pretty much random and it happened to admins and players. Testimonial linked at the bottom. So this is true. The full story: Both players were online all the time. I have no doubts about that. Mountas (aka DeA on TL.net) was the first one to file a freewin request because in his eye, Nightend appeared offline. This is an obvious and correct reaction. He had the bug described above and didnt see Nightend. The ticket was worked out by the referee brotkohl. He went through the regular procedure, checked if Nightend was online or not, and based his decision on that. Rare case popped up: He also didn't see him online. So he obviously gave a freewin. Based on two wrong facts which he wasn't aware of. When I was personally contacted that something might be strange I tried to contact both Nightend and Mountas. And for me it was possible to contact both. Sadly Mountas was already playing his round 3 match at the time we noticed we were all suffering from a bug. After winning that match I explained the bug to him and that the freewin that he got wasn't a decision base don the right facts. He instantly refused to "re-play" the match against Nightend. It was the fairest solution to me to decide that on the battlefield and not in a discussion. I even gave him a clear warning and explained it to him multiple times. Also to be mentioned: Nightend did not follow the rules and contacted an admin for a freewin when he was waiting more than 15 minutes. It is up to the reader to interpret this. Rule background: In Mountases argumentation he is talking about a missing background in the rules for such a case. I just keep it simple: If something unforseeable happens, and there is a possibility for a game to be played, then it has to be played. For me that feels so natural that i didnt even include it in the rules. Bottom notes: Testimonial of the bug by Frozenarbiter and Jdanzi: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5149486Why did this press release take so long? There are indicators that Mountas was ignoring messages from a friend of Nightend during the situation on purpose. We did not find evidence on that. Also people complaining about favouritism: Guys, two weeks ago we kicked the maybe best American player right now out of a tournament. Everybody who would like to discuss anything of this topic with me, you will be able to find my contact details on the CraftCup site or just PM me here.
Hmm, it's definitely a weird situation... but I think the best thing to have done would have been to let Moutas continue on, just because it creates the least amount of trouble (as he had already started his 3rd round game).
It's not an easy choice of course...
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I hate poorly run tourny's, tough break OP, i feel your pain.
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On May 01 2010 08:30 Maista wrote:Also to be mentioned: Nightend did not follow the rules and contacted an admin for a freewin when he was waiting more than 15 minutes.
as far as i can tell you are saying that one player did everything he was told to, won all his games and was then told to replay a match that he auto-won because the other person didnt follow the rules.
if nightend had contacted an admin before the time was up none of this would have happened.
you cant expect anyone to respect your tournament if the admins don't stand by their decisions, even if they don't fit into your personal idea of "fairness."
also, how far would you go? if he had won the tournament or was in the semifinals or something would you still tell him to not play the finals until he had played the person who didnt follow the rules in R2?
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The guy has starting play on his next match - at that point it's just too late. You can't just reverse it after the tournament has continued.
Not only that but the guy he played in r3 got screwed as well.
Not reasonable at all from the organisers.
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On May 01 2010 08:30 Maista wrote:
Why did this press release take so long?
There are indicators that Mountas was ignoring messages from a friend of Nightend during the situation on purpose. We did not find evidence on that.
I can post the print screen I made with me asking DeA to play the game vs Nightend, but DeA already confirmed it earlier in this thread, that I messaged him, and that he didn't gave me any reply. No reason to post it ...
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@killerdog:
interesting thought, and thats clearly a great way to handle a tournament. But please accept that this is just an opinion. I have my own idea of fairness and refusing to play a match thats clearly possible to play is unfair imho
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On May 01 2010 08:30 Maista wrote:
Here is the official CraftCup "Pressrelease". Same version as linked in the latest CraftCup news.
(snip)
Everybody who would like to discuss anything of this topic with me, you will be able to find my contact details on the CraftCup site or just PM me here.
No disrespect, but you need to learn from the airline industry on how to handle situations like this. The bug is not your fault, nor any of the players fault. However, two players were wronged by the actions of one of your admins.
What you should have done, was offer some type of incentive to one of the players, or both of the players. Possible incentives you could have offered the players:
1) Explain the bug to Nightend and offer Nightend a seeded placement in your next tournament if Nightend is willing to forgoe the current tournament. For instance, if you offered Nightend an automatic spot in the Ro8, or Ro4 at your next tournament, he probably would have accepted his disqualification from the current tournament.
2) Be willing to pay DeA portion of the tournament prize, if he agrees to a rematch with Nightend and loses. Or, perhaps seed DeA at the next tournament, if he is willing to go back to round 2. There needs to be some incentive for DeA to play Nightend, given the administrative mistsake on your end.
Either way, your admin team handled the situation poorly. You did not give an incentive to either player, and if I were DeA, I would feel cheated if I were forced to replay a round 2 match, after getting the clear from an admin to play round 3 and winning that round 3 match.
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On May 01 2010 08:45 ghostnuke1234 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 08:30 Maista wrote:
Here is the official CraftCup "Pressrelease". Same version as linked in the latest CraftCup news.
(snip)
Everybody who would like to discuss anything of this topic with me, you will be able to find my contact details on the CraftCup site or just PM me here.
No disrespect, but you need to learn from the airline industry on how to handle situations like this. The bug is not your fault, nor any of the players fault. However, two players were wronged by the actions of one of your admins. What you should have done, was offer some type of incentive to one of the players, or both of the players. Possible incentives you could have offered the players: 1) Explain the bug to Nightend and offer Nightend a seeded placement in your next tournament if Nightend is willing to forgoe the current tournament. For instance, if you offered Nightend an automatic spot in the Ro8, or Ro4 at your next tournament, he probably would have accepted his disqualification fromt he current tournament. 2) Be willing to pay DeA portion of the tournament prize, if he agrees to a rematch with Nightend and loses. Or, perhaps seed DeA at the next tournament, if he is willing to go back to round 2. There needs to be some incentive for DeA to play Nightend, given the administrative mistsake on your end. Either way, your admin team handled the situation poorly. You did not give an incentive to either player, and if I were DeA, I would feel cheated if I were forced to replay a round 2 match, after getting the clear from an admin to play round 3 and winning that round 3 match.
Sorry but both options posted by you are not professional at all ...
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 01 2010 08:45 ghostnuke1234 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 08:30 Maista wrote:
Here is the official CraftCup "Pressrelease". Same version as linked in the latest CraftCup news.
(snip)
Everybody who would like to discuss anything of this topic with me, you will be able to find my contact details on the CraftCup site or just PM me here.
No disrespect, but you need to learn from the airline industry on how to handle situations like this. The bug is not your fault, nor any of the players fault. However, two players were wronged by the actions of one of your admins. What you should have done, was offer some type of incentive to one of the players, or both of the players. Possible incentives you could have offered the players: 1) Explain the bug to Nightend and offer Nightend a seeded placement in your next tournament if Nightend is willing to forgoe the current tournament. For instance, if you offered Nightend an automatic spot in the Ro8, or Ro4 at your next tournament, he probably would have accepted his disqualification from the current tournament. 2) Be willing to pay DeA portion of the tournament prize, if he agrees to a rematch with Nightend and loses. Or, perhaps seed DeA at the next tournament, if he is willing to go back to round 2. There needs to be some incentive for DeA to play Nightend, given the administrative mistsake on your end. Either way, your admin team handled the situation poorly. You did not give an incentive to either player, and if I were DeA, I would feel cheated if I were forced to replay a round 2 match, after getting the clear from an admin to play round 3 and winning that round 3 match.
I agree that it's a problem that 2 players were wronged by this decision, but seeding anyone would wrong 100s of players for the next cup...
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On May 01 2010 08:43 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 08:30 Maista wrote:
Why did this press release take so long?
There are indicators that Mountas was ignoring messages from a friend of Nightend during the situation on purpose. We did not find evidence on that.
I can post the print screen I made with me asking DeA to play the game vs Nightend, but DeA already confirmed it earlier in this thread, that I messaged him, and that he didn't gave me any reply. No reason to post it ...
Pics. Or. It. Didn't. Happen.
It applies here, even if DeA confirmed it. Also, he didn't even confirm it all; he claims what you state is not entirely true.
According to the article, there is 0 evidence on DeA ignoring messages.
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pokepill + avilo typical antifans who obviously dont know that much
as far as tournament organization every1 knows the issues i had with first us craft cup, but since then i had no complaints
gg wp jin
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On May 01 2010 08:36 Maista wrote:
right now i am compiling an excuse to jdanzi, who was the only person who was treated unfairly in the whole process in my opinion.
To keep it very short.
- Brotkohl gave Moutas the freewin
- Nightend didn't send a mail about the delay
- Moutas got disqualified.
From my point of view is the organisation at fault. Moutas didn't do something wrong and the decision not to repeat the second round wasn't against the rules. This is some kind of sportsmanship.
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On May 01 2010 08:56 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 08:43 cyclone25 wrote:On May 01 2010 08:30 Maista wrote:
Why did this press release take so long?
There are indicators that Mountas was ignoring messages from a friend of Nightend during the situation on purpose. We did not find evidence on that.
I can post the print screen I made with me asking DeA to play the game vs Nightend, but DeA already confirmed it earlier in this thread, that I messaged him, and that he didn't gave me any reply. No reason to post it ... Pics. Or. It. Didn't. Happen. It applies here, even if DeA confirmed it. Also, he didn't even confirm it all; he claims what you state is not entirely true. According to the article, there is 0 evidence on DeA ignoring messages.
If the match was already started it doesnt matters anyway.... i wouldnt take the time to anwser some random noob during a tournament match...
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As a tournament admin and a competitor ( never played in any craft cup, don't know anyone involved in this debate ) the only fair thing is that Nightend is out of the tournament. The actions of the tournament admins are unfair to not only the thread OP but every other competitor + admin members.
A very small amount of responsibility is Nightends for not contacting admins asap - the rest of the responsibility is on the tournament admins for making poor decisions in addressing the situation.
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I may be wrong but I get the feeling when Maista made the call he did, it was with the information that Dea had ignored the wispers of Nightend's friend know knowing exactly where that came into play.
If one person gets a free win because he reports his opponent MIA and an admin gets word that someone tried to contact them and was ignored, you would consider that borderline cheating. I think in the end the facts got sorted out, but with that concept in mind I don't think that Maista was out of line with his request.
On the same note, when the top admin is making a call it is in your best interest to respect it. They can't make the correct call every time, but every call they make they do it for the best interest of the tournament. If you cant trust the judgement of the admins the whole thing falls apart.
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I kinda agree with jinro to automatically seed the player for the next tourney so far up.
To CraftCup Admin::
Since Nightend got his way in that tournament, i would like to see Moutas to get some kind of preferential treatment in the next tourney (for a lack of better words really). Maybe get him a bye into the 2nd round, or whatever. Nightend kinda *stole* Moutas place, and didnt have to play Round 3.
Also, Nightend had nothing to lose saying that he wants to play for 2nd place match. Ofcourse he would agree to it. Moutas had lots of stuff to lose, he was in the 4th round only to get it stolen away.
Also, you say that "the decision would be best solved on the battlefield", yet you give Nightend (who, again, had nothing to lose) the free win. This doesnt make sense at all!
In short:
- a bug happened that affected 2 players
- 1 player got affected severly and couldnt respond to PM's/game invites
- 1 player kept on playing and proceeded with the tourney
Why let the guy thats stuck to the rules, and helped the tourney go further, why let him get DQ'ed and the guy that had issues with his PC/bnet/dog on fire take his spot? Not only that, but you literally just prove that your way of "checking if people are online" doesnt really work.
Also, what were the cheating allegations? He didnt do anything wrong...
The decision really baffles me.
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On May 01 2010 09:02 HOLYCOWBATMAN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 08:56 Zeke50100 wrote:On May 01 2010 08:43 cyclone25 wrote:On May 01 2010 08:30 Maista wrote:
Why did this press release take so long?
There are indicators that Mountas was ignoring messages from a friend of Nightend during the situation on purpose. We did not find evidence on that.
I can post the print screen I made with me asking DeA to play the game vs Nightend, but DeA already confirmed it earlier in this thread, that I messaged him, and that he didn't gave me any reply. No reason to post it ... Pics. Or. It. Didn't. Happen. It applies here, even if DeA confirmed it. Also, he didn't even confirm it all; he claims what you state is not entirely true. According to the article, there is 0 evidence on DeA ignoring messages. If the match was already started it doesnt matters anyway.... i wouldnt take the time to anwser some random noob during a tournament match...
What's stopping you from posting the pic, if it truly exists? Are you too lazy? No access to Photobucket?
You're avoiding the matter at hand.
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ye it sux with special treatment like this but i think its wrong to say craftcup sux just because of this. i mean really from what ive heard most ppl say is it that its a really nice tour, i think so too
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On May 01 2010 09:05 Kevmar wrote:
If one person gets a free win because he reports his opponent MIA and an admin gets word that someone tried to contact them and was ignored, you would consider that borderline cheating. I think in the end the facts got sorted out, but with that concept in mind I don't think that Maista was out of line with his request.
This is the problem. Even if DeA had seen the PM's that nigthend had issues with bnet. He couldnt just sit there and wait for 3hours until Nightend's battlenet was fixed could he?
Also, what could DeA do with the information that nightend had bnet problems? Again, the admins can tell DeA to wait like 15-20mins (which he did) but after that still nothing and he should still get the autowin...
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On May 01 2010 08:45 Maista wrote:
@killerdog:
interesting thought, and thats clearly a great way to handle a tournament. But please accept that this is just an opinion. I have my own idea of fairness and refusing to play a match thats clearly possible to play is unfair imho
Unfair? Not following your tournament's own rules is unfair. No game was played after 15 minutes, one player requested a pass to round 3, it was given, as is allowed in the rules. It doesn't matter that both were online at the time and just weren't able to see each other. One person requested a pass within the allocated time, one did not. It's that simple.
Secondly, you even mention that NightEnd did NOT follow the rules even though DeA did, and you allow NightEnd to continue on in place of DeA?! I just don't understand how you can make that explanation that you gave, it's like... wow... actually there are no words. If forcing a replay of round 2 was the right decision, well I guess I don't know what right decisions are. GL CraftCup, take this as a lesson learned, the incident that is. If you have rules, follow them, to the letter.
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you guys really think somebody should get a freewin because he clikced the "i want a freewin"-button faster than the other one?
//rethorical question. Please do not answer it =)
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On May 01 2010 09:02 HOLYCOWBATMAN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 08:56 Zeke50100 wrote:On May 01 2010 08:43 cyclone25 wrote:On May 01 2010 08:30 Maista wrote:
Why did this press release take so long?
There are indicators that Mountas was ignoring messages from a friend of Nightend during the situation on purpose. We did not find evidence on that.
I can post the print screen I made with me asking DeA to play the game vs Nightend, but DeA already confirmed it earlier in this thread, that I messaged him, and that he didn't gave me any reply. No reason to post it ... Pics. Or. It. Didn't. Happen. It applies here, even if DeA confirmed it. Also, he didn't even confirm it all; he claims what you state is not entirely true. According to the article, there is 0 evidence on DeA ignoring messages. If the match was already started it doesnt matters anyway.... i wouldnt take the time to anwser some random noob during a tournament match...
Random noob?? Who are you to call someone noob? You're a noname troll, that's what you are.
Anyway here's the print:
Note: I made it like 10-15 minutes after I messaged DeA. Nightend asked me for it when we still got no reply form DeA, in case the admins will ask for a proof that he tried to contact his opponent.
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On May 01 2010 09:14 Maista wrote:
you guys really think somebody should get a freewin because he clikced the "i want a freewin"-button faster than the other one?
well..he was the only one that clicked it didnt he?
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On May 01 2010 09:14 cyclone25 wrote:
whole lot of stuff here with the picture of your proof
By random noob, he means some random player he doesnt know. Not that you suck at the game... gosh...
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On May 01 2010 09:11 Erucious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 09:05 Kevmar wrote:
If one person gets a free win because he reports his opponent MIA and an admin gets word that someone tried to contact them and was ignored, you would consider that borderline cheating. I think in the end the facts got sorted out, but with that concept in mind I don't think that Maista was out of line with his request.
This is the problem. Even if DeA had seen the PM's that nigthend had issues with bnet. He couldnt just sit there and wait for 3hours until Nightend's battlenet was fixed could he? Also, what could DeA do with the information that nightend had bnet problems? Again, the admins can tell DeA to wait like 15-20mins (which he did) but after that still nothing and he should still get the autowin...
Not really a problem - the admin has made a decision and Moutas has been advanced - he doesn't need to reply to some random message - only the admins and his current opponent.
If his opponent is having technical problems then he must contact the admins or forfeit his game to avoid disrupting the tournament schedule.
He didn't contact admins in a timely fashion so he forfeits the game - the problem is the admins attempt at corrective action. ( obviously with good intentions - but with poor results/forethought ).
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On May 01 2010 09:15 Erucious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 09:14 Maista wrote:
you guys really think somebody should get a freewin because he clikced the "i want a freewin"-button faster than the other one? well..he was the only one that clicked it didnt he?
Does that rly make a difference to you?
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Even in the case that nightend's bnet was bugged... the other player was already past the 3rd round and ready to play the 4th. Sure.. it is a terrible circumstance, but you can't bring someone back a complete round..
Still a lot to be learned in running tournaments fairly I think.
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imagine the situation with nightend getting the freewin then winning round 3 as well. there is no way in hell they would make him play R2
preferential treatment makes this cup look bad, which is ironic because giving pros a good tournament experience (even at the cost of giving noobs a bad exerience as long as its unnoticed) makes them play in the cup more, which gives it more notoriety, which makes the cup look better. i i would guess this is the motive, because pissing NightEnd off might cause him to not play in future cups.
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On May 01 2010 09:17 skYfiVe wrote:
Even in the case that nightend's bnet was bugged... the other player was already past the 3rd round and ready to play the 4th. Sure.. it is a terrible circumstance, but you can't bring someone back a complete round..
Still a lot to be learned in running tournaments fairly I think.
it wasnt nightends sc2 that had issues. please read carefully. Both players had the same problem
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On May 01 2010 09:16 Maista wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 09:15 Erucious wrote:On May 01 2010 09:14 Maista wrote:
you guys really think somebody should get a freewin because he clikced the "i want a freewin"-button faster than the other one? well..he was the only one that clicked it didnt he? Does that rly make a difference to you?
What?... What is your point?
You have said rules. Your admins followed the rules that your tournament plays by. Then gets reverted when the damage already has been done. Reverted and given a free win to someone who wasnt available to unforseen circumstances.
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LOL at making him go back to round 2. That has to be the most retarded thing i've ever heard of. That would just mess up the whole tournament..
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btw who said we made him actually go back, we jsut wanted him to play the match he skipped...
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On May 01 2010 09:18 Maista wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 09:17 skYfiVe wrote:
Even in the case that nightend's bnet was bugged... the other player was already past the 3rd round and ready to play the 4th. Sure.. it is a terrible circumstance, but you can't bring someone back a complete round..
Still a lot to be learned in running tournaments fairly I think. it wasnt nightends sc2 that had issues. please read carefully. Both players had the same problem
Fair enough if this is indeed the case. But one person took initiative to resolve it by contacting admins, which is said to be the rules in this tournament. The other person didn't.
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On May 01 2010 09:07 Erucious wrote:
I kinda agree with jinro to automatically seed the player for the next tourney so far up.
To CraftCup Admin::
Since Nightend got his way in that tournament, i would like to see Moutas to get some kind of preferential treatment in the next tourney (for a lack of better words really). Maybe get him a bye into the 2nd round, or whatever. Nightend kinda *stole* Moutas place, and didnt have to play Round 3.
Also, Nightend had nothing to lose saying that he wants to play for 2nd place match. Ofcourse he would agree to it. Moutas had lots of stuff to lose, he was in the 4th round only to get it stolen away.
Also, you say that "the decision would be best solved on the battlefield", yet you give Nightend (who, again, had nothing to lose) the free win. This doesnt make sense at all!
In short:
- a bug happened that affected 2 players
- 1 player got affected severly and couldnt respond to PM's/game invites
- 1 player kept on playing and proceeded with the tourney
Why let the guy thats stuck to the rules, and helped the tourney go further, why let him get DQ'ed and the guy that had issues with his PC/bnet/dog on fire take his spot? Not only that, but you literally just prove that your way of "checking if people are online" doesnt really work.
Also, what were the cheating allegations? He didnt do anything wrong...
The decision really baffles me.
Yes, Erucious is right. They need to makeup to Moutas and seeding Moutas is one way of resolving this issue. The Craftcup admins need to think this through, acknowledge they handled the situation poorly, and makeup to Moutas for their poor administration.
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On May 01 2010 09:20 Maista wrote:
btw who said we made him actually go back, we jsut wanted him to play the match he skipped...
And then? Let nightend skip round 3? (if nightend would win ofc)
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On May 01 2010 09:21 Erucious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 09:20 Maista wrote:
btw who said we made him actually go back, we jsut wanted him to play the match he skipped... And then? Let nightend skip round 3? (if nightend would win ofc)
i already commented on the skipping r3 issue and i persoanally apologized to Jdanzi
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you should of just played round 2. How difficult would that be? And why wouldn't you play round 2 - were you afraid of losing?
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On May 01 2010 08:53 FrozenArbiter wrote:
I agree that it's a problem that 2 players were wronged by this decision, but seeding anyone would wrong 100s of players for the next cup...
Those 100s of players would have to enter the tournament knowing a player is seeded because of an administrative mistake from the last tournament. If I were one of the 100s of players, I would have no issue if other players were seeded for a good reason. As long as the players for the next tournament know ahead of time what the tournament conditions are, it's quite fair.
Many tournaments in sports have seeding one way or another. Seeding is something you deal with at tournaments and if you are a good player, the seeding becomes a non-factor as you will progress regardless.
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Thing is nightend got 2 FREE WINS, he played r1 and then r4, he didn't have to play moutas or the person moutas defeated in r3. Also Moutas followed the rules and nightend didn't, and who has confirmed that nightend was on during the 20 minutes in question. Only that he was obviously on after or during moutas was playing r3. If nightend would have followed the rules none of this would have happend so you tell moutas, who got the win from an admin and then won r3, that he has to play nightend for his spot in r4? How do you sleep at night lmao! Did I miss something here or does this sound accurate?
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this was all a bogus command and conquer tournament before sc2, run terribly and was always a joke. When you are considered a joke in a community that itself, is considered a joke, you have a bad tournament. They definately aren't worth the hassel.
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On May 01 2010 09:22 Maista wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 09:21 Erucious wrote:On May 01 2010 09:20 Maista wrote:
btw who said we made him actually go back, we jsut wanted him to play the match he skipped... And then? Let nightend skip round 3? (if nightend would win ofc) i already commented on the skipping r3 issue and i persoanally apologized to Jdanzi
I'm not sure I read you commenting on the skipping r3 issue. (i could be blind, but please point me to the post if you can)
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On May 01 2010 09:14 Maista wrote:
you guys really think somebody should get a freewin because he clikced the "i want a freewin"-button faster than the other one?
//rethorical question. Please do not answer it =)
And Brotkohl who gave him the freewin is not a part of your team?
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On May 01 2010 09:28 einohr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 09:14 Maista wrote:
you guys really think somebody should get a freewin because he clikced the "i want a freewin"-button faster than the other one?
//rethorical question. Please do not answer it =) And Brotkohl who gave him the freewin is not a part of your team?
As i stated in the release, his decision was based on 2 extremely wrong facts.
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I got beat by moman in the first round don't moan at me about unfairness I WANTED A BYE INTO THE SECOND ROUND
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They werent wrong. They were correct. Nightend was unreachable through 2 accounts. If nightend would have followed the rules and contacted an admin, this wouldnt have happened. IE: his fault, his loss.
And yes.. You literally gave nightend 2 FW's because of this..which even baffles me more
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Okay in the last ~5 posts i did i was jsut repeating myself.
My conclusion is this:
Some people here have extremely different opinions than i do. I do my best to respects that. And i even respect if you dont care about CraftCups anymore.
But please be so kind to also respect my opionion. I am not a stupid idiot who just runs around to annoy people and has fun with it.
Btw did somebody read about the beer summit? Imho the best way to resolve conflics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_summit#.22Beer_Summit.22
i gotta get some sleep, gn8 all, was a pleasur to be your host
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 01 2010 09:24 ghostnuke1234 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 08:53 FrozenArbiter wrote:
I agree that it's a problem that 2 players were wronged by this decision, but seeding anyone would wrong 100s of players for the next cup... Those 100s of players would have to enter the tournament knowing a player is seeded because of an administrative mistake from the last tournament. If I were one of the 100s of players, I would have no issue if other players were seeded for a good reason. As long as the players for the next tournament know ahead of time what the tournament conditions are, it's quite fair. Many tournaments in sports have seeding one way or another. Seeding is something you deal with at tournaments and if you are a good player, the seeding becomes a non-factor as you will progress regardless.
Well, I guess... I hosted a beta-key contest tournament last summer, and due to an undiscovered map bug in the finals of one of them (hosted 4 tournaments total), I decided to seed the person affected into the next tournaments finals... However, since the finals were FFA, all this meant was that it was a 4 player FFA instead of a 3 player FFA...
Seeding someone into this type of 1v1 tournament feels very awkward.
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Erucious go read the big post Maista made 10 more times before asking 10 more questions ... as he said you only make him repeat what he said there, and he was mannered enough to do it several times.
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On May 01 2010 09:29 Maista wrote:
As i stated in the release, his decision was based on 2 extremely wrong facts.
And if the admins had realized he made a mistake before DeA played the next match, you could have corrected it then. But once he played the next match it's too late. You can't ask a player to put himself in a bad situation to cover a mistake made by an admin.
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People get seeded for all kinds of tournaments. RL Sports, video games, poker. So its not that bad really. As someone said, if you are a solid player, theres a good chance you will get through to the Ro16 anyway (i mean...a much bigger chance than some other platinum player).
I just feel that Moutas has been wronged very badly, and the admin feels that only the 3rd round loser has been. Which i, and i think others, find really stupid.
I mean, no hard feelings for nightend; he shouldve contacted admins sooner. But other than that, he did what he could; contacted through friends, tried to replay the match, etc etc.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Don't think anything else is going to be accomplished here. Thanks for all your input on this trivial matter.
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