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On March 05 2004 01:54 baal wrote: Show nested quote +On March 05 2004 01:51 TranCe wrote:
i like to think i turned out fine.i can't speak for every other single parent/child though. interesting. but im not saying its a rule, im saying its a big possibility, if they pick sometimes on random targets imagine having such a "tail"... I only know that i'd really wouldnt want to be a child raised by homosexuals.
Why? would you be ashamed of your parents? If you would, thats sad.
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On March 05 2004 01:29 Jim wrote: Show nested quote +On March 05 2004 01:15 Commander[SB] wrote:
Multinomah county in OR is now the 4th (Or around 4th) county in the country to now allow gay marriage.
Any thoughts? Let people do whatever they want to as long as they are not hurting anybody else. Its not my business.
Agreed.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On March 05 2004 01:57 Commander[SB] wrote: Show nested quote +On March 05 2004 01:54 baal wrote: On March 05 2004 01:51 TranCe wrote:
i like to think i turned out fine.i can't speak for every other single parent/child though. interesting. but im not saying its a rule, im saying its a big possibility, if they pick sometimes on random targets imagine having such a "tail"... I only know that i'd really wouldnt want to be a child raised by homosexuals. Why? would you be ashamed of your parents? If you would, thats sad.
Having two parents of the same sex is not as optimal as having two parents of different sex. Combine that with the point that you'll get teased and it will have a lifetime effect on you, that its not widely accepted, and looked at as gross - makes me perfectly understand why he would say such a thing.
And about sad, your average parents take kids to stuff together, and kiss there for example. Imagine a person under 16 with their two male parents out, and they kiss? You'd feel really awkward, and would be ashamed. That's just the way society and the evolution of a person works in most cases?
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On March 05 2004 01:42 Commander[SB] wrote:
Whats wrong with gay couples adopting kids?
My reasoning being, first off I don't think I could survive so I can't say im ok with someone else going through it, but than again I am already raised a certain way which makes it seem to awkward. Secondly although there are 2 parents its as if the child only receives parenting from one parent in this case only one sex. How is that bad for the child you ask, well just look at men and women, both different on the mental and physical surfaces, so only being subjected to one sex they are deprieved of what the other sex may have to offer in the form of parenting such as insight or the sheer presence. I don't think the 2 same sex parents would be bad for them but rather the child would be missing out on something. I mean take a look at single parents, I mean its possible but is it really what you would want for a child. And please no hypotheticals such as what if the child were raised in a abusive home, because the arguement can be easily reversed.
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On March 05 2004 01:54 Beyonder wrote: Show nested quote +On March 05 2004 01:50 Commander[SB] wrote:
Maybe they need to go to a better school. I go to a school where one of my brothers best friends dad is now technically a woman, dresses in female clothes, and comes to our school on a regular basis.
My brothers friend doesn't have to live through much 'mental abuse'.
Edit: to baal The level of acceptance on these kind of matters differs based on region, and population. In some places live the kind of people that easilly accept this, and their kids will take over this behaviour. In some places there are a lot of these people, in some not. I'm sure that at the point where I got teased for having glasses, it was already a normal thing somewhere else. It however isn't rational to send your kids to school 100 miles away now is it?
If a gay couple adopts a kid in like the middle of Redneck, Kentucky. Yeah maybe thats not the safest for the kid, but perhaps there are ways to prevent other students from knowing about him/hers parents.
I mean I don't think it will be very good for the self-esteem of the kid to have to lie about his parents, but it surely beats being teased to death by kids in the classroom.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
At one point you say it would be sad to be ashamed of your parents, and at the other you wish to hide it. I understand what you mean, but do you see what I mean as well? And at that rate it will never get acceptance.
I believe that this is a matter that should be very carefully handled in the class the kid is in. I think that if this is brought well in the class, that this could very well be accepted among the rest of the kids. I however doubt that in many places this would be handled well.
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Commander first of all you cant hide for long the fact that he has gay parents, and if you are going to lie about your parents then they should be allowed to have them.
What i see is that people try to use those kids as battery rams to open the society, but its not fair for the kids, they should be brought to those situations when it is totally normal and acceptable, nowaday the world its not ready, so wait until it is.
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On March 05 2004 02:01 Beyonder wrote: Show nested quote +On March 05 2004 01:57 Commander[SB] wrote: On March 05 2004 01:54 baal wrote: On March 05 2004 01:51 TranCe wrote:
i like to think i turned out fine.i can't speak for every other single parent/child though. interesting. but im not saying its a rule, im saying its a big possibility, if they pick sometimes on random targets imagine having such a "tail"... I only know that i'd really wouldnt want to be a child raised by homosexuals. Why? would you be ashamed of your parents? If you would, thats sad. Having two parents of the same sex is not as optimal as having two parents of different sex. Combine that with the point that you'll get teased and it will have a lifetime effect on you, that its not widely accepted, and looked at as gross - makes me perfectly understand why he would say such a thing. And about sad, your average parents take kids to stuff together, and kiss there for example. Imagine a person under 16 with their two male parents out, and they kiss? You'd feel really awkward, and would be ashamed. That's just the way society and the evolution of a person works in most cases?
yes, I guess it would be up to the wisdom of the gay couple to decide if they should kiss in public eh? I'm not saying gay marriage couples wouldn't have a lot more rescrictions about raising there kids, but like I said, it sure beats kids growing up without ANY parents.
People get teased for pretty much everything that people can target. Although I'm not saying its right to use this as an excuse, but a lot of kids are teased for many reasons and are able to shrug it off and they turn out fine.
I think as long as the kid doesn't wear a shirt that says 'GAY PRIDE' in junior high - it really wouldn't be as big of an issue as you make it out to be.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
People get teased for pretty much everything that people can target. Although I'm not saying its right to use this as an excuse, but a lot of kids are teased for many reasons and are able to shrug it off and they turn out fine.
I'm not saying that they don't turn out 'fine' - I'm saying that it has a negative effect, and in many cases a lifetime effect on the personality. (socially)
I think as long as the kid doesn't wear a shirt that says 'GAY PRIDE' in junior high - it really wouldn't be as big of an issue as you make it out to be.
Perhaps, all I'm saying that it could very well be a point against gay marriage.
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On March 05 2004 02:07 Beyonder wrote:
At one point you say it would be sad to be ashamed of your parents, and at the other you wish to hide it. I understand what you mean, but do you see what I mean as well? And at that rate it will never get acceptance.
I believe that this is a matter that should be very carefully handled in the class the kid is in. I think that if this is brought well in the class, that this could very well be accepted among the rest of the kids. I however doubt that in many places this would be handled well.
I completely understand what your saying. Yes and it really does depend where the kid lives and what situation he is in. It is sad to be ashamed of your parents, but it also is pretty devastating to be teased by an entire class for something completely out of your control. You can't have it perfect. But like I said before, if we continue thinking this way the world will never improve and continue in the blind cycles its in now.
I just think its important to take it one step at a time. 300 years ago my father could be owning slaves right now (well - if we had more money), 50 years ago black kids couldn't go to the same school as me. But that is changed because small steps were taken over the course of 300 years that now has made the world a better place.
Issues like these NEED to be resolved before they get build up too much hate inside an entire group. I know its always been looked down upon to be gay, and gay people seem surprisingly cool about it. But everyone and every group has a snapping point.
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On March 05 2004 02:08 Commander[SB] wrote: Show nested quote +On March 05 2004 02:01 Beyonder wrote: On March 05 2004 01:57 Commander[SB] wrote: On March 05 2004 01:54 baal wrote: On March 05 2004 01:51 TranCe wrote:
i like to think i turned out fine.i can't speak for every other single parent/child though. interesting. but im not saying its a rule, im saying its a big possibility, if they pick sometimes on random targets imagine having such a "tail"... I only know that i'd really wouldnt want to be a child raised by homosexuals. Why? would you be ashamed of your parents? If you would, thats sad. Having two parents of the same sex is not as optimal as having two parents of different sex. Combine that with the point that you'll get teased and it will have a lifetime effect on you, that its not widely accepted, and looked at as gross - makes me perfectly understand why he would say such a thing. And about sad, your average parents take kids to stuff together, and kiss there for example. Imagine a person under 16 with their two male parents out, and they kiss? You'd feel really awkward, and would be ashamed. That's just the way society and the evolution of a person works in most cases? yes, I guess it would be up to the wisdom of the gay couple to decide if they should kiss in public eh? I'm not saying gay marriage couples wouldn't have a lot more rescrictions about raising there kids, but like I said, it sure beats kids growing up without ANY parents. People get teased for pretty much everything that people can target. Although I'm not saying its right to use this as an excuse, but a lot of kids are teased for many reasons and are able to shrug it off and they turn out fine. I think as long as the kid doesn't wear a shirt that says 'GAY PRIDE' in junior high - it really wouldn't be as big of an issue as you make it out to be.
Well hell some kids go nuts (columbine) And they probably had straight parents, now imagine what a child would go through in our society today if his parents were gay and not to mention every gay couple won't be spectacular parents. Personally the teen suicide rate will go up because those kids will not be ready for the society we live in today.
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On March 05 2004 02:08 baal wrote:
Commander first of all you cant hide for long the fact that he has gay parents, and if you are going to lie about your parents then they should be allowed to have them.
Well I wouldn't get my kids to lie about me, but I guess its because I live in a community that accepts it. And wtf, not 'being allowed to have them' just because you have to alter the truth slightly to save your kid from some social torment?
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
Perhaps, but what you must realise (which Baal said too) is that what you mention isn't the only way to make it widely accepted. There are other ways, positive propoganda - you name it. These do not effect a shit load of kids in a negative way.
But sure, at one point this will be a point - but this should be later, after the world is more ready. I would not 'take a child' during the first stages, but that is just because of my morals, values, and experiences.
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ofcouse teen suicide will raise like hell, the world isnt read yet why force it?
because a couple of men with breast say so? i say kill em 
i had to let "baal" go out in this post :p
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the parental argument against gay marriage:
assuming stopping gay marriage stops gay adoption (why would it?) and conceding that statistics support a position that gays are more frequently "bad parents" (vague) than heterosexuals:
why do people think that some random homosexual parents are going to be worse than some random hereosexual parents? assuming the statistics support such a generalization, since when do we settle for statistical trends when deciding to persecute an entire minority? crime is more prevelent in black communities; should we put all black people in jail? even if a higher percentage of homosexuals are bad parents compared to hetereosexuals, that should not be license to forbid all homosexuals from becoming parents (through adoption).
if children having bad parents is your real concern, you could do much better than singling out a small minority and noting that they, statistically (assuming the statistics support this, which i am conceding for the sake of argument) are bad parents. how about coming up with actual standards to decide if a couple is allowed to be parents or not? oh, wait, there already are standards when it comes to adoption, and they can be applied without looking at the gender or sex of the parents. are the standards too low? then raise them, big whoop. why does "gay" even have to figure into any kind of parental argument?
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On March 05 2004 02:02 DV8 wrote: Show nested quote +On March 05 2004 01:42 Commander[SB] wrote:
Whats wrong with gay couples adopting kids? My reasoning being, first off I don't think I could survive so I can't say im ok with someone else going through it, but than again I am already raised a certain way which makes it seem to awkward. Secondly although there are 2 parents its as if the child only receives parenting from one parent in this case only one sex. How is that bad for the child you ask, well just look at men and women, both different on the mental and physical surfaces, so only being subjected to one sex they are deprieved of what the other sex may have to offer in the form of parenting such as insight or the sheer presence. I don't think the 2 same sex parents would be bad for them but rather the child would be missing out on something. I mean take a look at single parents, I mean its possible but is it really what you would want for a child. And please no hypotheticals such as what if the child were raised in a abusive home, because the arguement can be easily reversed.
Well I've already said. In an ideal world every kid would have two loving parents of the opposite sex. But men fall in love with other men, eh? And wanna have kids, eh?
Better for the kids to have 2 parents of the same sex then having no parents of any sex and having to live in an orphanage. I'm sure the kids who grow up in an orphanage are not eager to tell everyone they meet either.
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On March 05 2004 02:21 stimey d okgm fish wrote:
the parental argument against gay marriage:
assuming stopping gay marriage stops gay adoption (why would it?) and conceding that statistics support a position that gays are more frequently "bad parents" (vague) than heterosexuals:
why do people think that some random homosexual parents are going to be worse than some random hereosexual parents? assuming the statistics support such a generalization, since when do we settle for statistical trends when deciding to persecute an entire minority? crime is more prevelent in black communities; should we put all black people in jail? even if a higher percentage of homosexuals are bad parents compared to hetereosexuals, that should not be license to forbid all homosexuals from becoming parents (through adoption).
if children having bad parents is your real concern, you could do much better than singling out a small minority and noting that they, statistically (assuming the statistics support this, which i am conceding for the sake of argument) are bad parents. how about coming up with actual standards to decide if a couple is allowed to be parents or not? oh, wait, there already are standards when it comes to adoption, and they can be applied without looking at the gender or sex of the parents. are the standards too low? then raise them, big whoop. why does "gay" even have to figure into any kind of parental argument?
Good arguement only problem is no one said gay parents=bad parents.
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well every other argument sucks more so i answered the only one i wnnted 2 even if no one said it
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Gay marriage is no problem in my book, it doesn't harm anyone. However, gay couples adopting children is a BIG nono..I'm sure there may be certain situations where it would be alright(such as no m/f couples will adopt them, and the kid is over 10yrs old)..but not many.
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On March 05 2004 02:22 Commander[SB] wrote: Show nested quote +On March 05 2004 02:02 DV8 wrote: On March 05 2004 01:42 Commander[SB] wrote:
Whats wrong with gay couples adopting kids? My reasoning being, first off I don't think I could survive so I can't say im ok with someone else going through it, but than again I am already raised a certain way which makes it seem to awkward. Secondly although there are 2 parents its as if the child only receives parenting from one parent in this case only one sex. How is that bad for the child you ask, well just look at men and women, both different on the mental and physical surfaces, so only being subjected to one sex they are deprieved of what the other sex may have to offer in the form of parenting such as insight or the sheer presence. I don't think the 2 same sex parents would be bad for them but rather the child would be missing out on something. I mean take a look at single parents, I mean its possible but is it really what you would want for a child. And please no hypotheticals such as what if the child were raised in a abusive home, because the arguement can be easily reversed. Well I've already said. In an ideal world every kid would have two loving parents of the opposite sex. But men fall in love with other men, eh? And wanna have kids, eh? Better for the kids to have 2 parents of the same sex then having no parents of any sex and having to live in an orphanage. I'm sure the kids who grow up in an orphanage are not eager to tell everyone they meet either. I know this doesn't count for fact or even a stastitic but I thought Id bring it up, I knew 2 kids who grew up in a orphanage but both had no problems speaking of it and almost spoke of it as a self hardening experience that they are proud of.
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EPT
