EPT[SPL] Grand Final - SK Telecom T1 vs Hwaseung Oz - Day 2 -…
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
On August 09 2009 05:34 Ideas wrote: man it fucking sucks to see JD go 0 for 3, but goddamn fantasy is such a badass there isn't a more-deserving player to triumph. So nice to have a rising player who loves to play and isn't the total backbone of the team so he never gets worn out. Also having total support of the two biggest legacies in SC probably helps with his ability to enjoy a safe comfort strategy zone. I think most fans will agree, SKT and Oz alike that while JD is the beter player, mechanic and micro wise, Fantasy is a smarter and patient player. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On August 09 2009 04:09 sGa.Mac wrote: JaeDong next Bonjwa. Yeah right. Jaedong is on track to enter the semis of both the OSL and the MSL. Two BO5s. Featuring Jaedong, the player who is known to be an absolute monster in BO5s. Furthermore, if he wins these two he will have ZvZ to look forward to in the finals. ...I wouldn't count him out just yet. CJ didn't win Proleague at all during the year that Savior was called a Bonjwa. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
Iit's very likely that SKT1 thought Jaedong would do a pool first build and this is the perfect counter to that. Notice how he hid the proxy rax's rines at all points; it didn't seem like he deviated from a strat. | ||
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vaMpYr
France119 Posts
im the #1 jaedong's fan in the world i think , but i must admit fantasy played really really brillantly . i just regret that fantasy is just boxer/iloveoov's child and not only fantasy himself . players like jaedong get experience and strats with their own play and experience in important TV match but fantasy is nothing without boxer/oov . as much as im fan of boxer like everyone here , I prefere much boxer who has learnt ultimate starcraft only from himself . i like fantasy a lot , but i dislike the fact he just play the way boxer or oov tell him to do . but i think you are forgetting something important here . jaedong is still the best player right now , 0 2 vs fantasy and 0 1 vs hyuk dont mean fantasy is now better . he failed in the most important match ever , but i think he had too much pressure on him in being always the one responsible for the victory of his sucking team . if u put ZIDANE in a poor nb football club , he cant play as good as if he is with good team . its the same for jaedong . and u must see clearly that he played really risky , going fastest lair in ace match without scouting or anything safe , going h12 in zvz in PL finals vs someone way lower than him . he just like to play that way . he is jaedong . the game vs fantasy on outsider is a great game , i think jaedong had won this , but just failed at some important moments in the end . he lost , thats starcraft and thats jaedong . he is not invincible , he has really personnal , psychologic and hard playstyle , and sometime he can be weak because of that . fantasy deserved to win too . and SKT deserved more the victory ( boxer <3 ) . we will see now in the future about jaedong . im just happy to know boxer is still so smart . the strat in ace match was really magic . but boxer would have done it better :p but jaedong is now a really smart player too . he was not smart so much in his early days , but he has now got really smart with his own opinion and experience of starcraft . and i think you are underestimating him for the future . we will see . im just hoping OZ will get really better now with backho lomo killer and hiya . i think they can . | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 09 2009 05:53 Kyo Yuy wrote: Jaedong is on track to enter the semis of both the OSL and the MSL. Two BO5s. Featuring Jaedong, the player who is known to be an absolute monster in BO5s. Furthermore, if he wins these two he will have ZvZ to look forward to in the finals. ...I wouldn't count him out just yet. CJ didn't win Proleague at all during the year that Savior was called a Bonjwa. Except that Savior was still completely dominating, and when he went up against someone, everyone expected and knew he would win. Jaedong isn't even CLOSE to that. He's dropped multiple games against the likes of Orion and Hyuk, and he definitely isn't favored and heavily expected to win against the likes of Flash, Bisu, and Fantasy. I feel that we may see some kind of hiatus from Jaedong soon. It seems that he's just burning out way too much. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
I don't buy into it, but the arguments usually devolve in arguments based on purely opinion from both sides. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
... no wai... | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On August 09 2009 05:57 Stratos_speAr wrote: Except that Savior was still completely dominating, and when he went up against someone, everyone expected and knew he would win. Jaedong isn't even CLOSE to that. He's dropped multiple games against the likes of Orion and Hyuk, and he definitely isn't favored and heavily expected to win against the likes of Flash, Bisu, and Fantasy. I feel that we may see some kind of hiatus from Jaedong soon. It seems that he's just burning out way too much. I am not saying Jaedong is a bonjwa right this moment. But Jaedong has the possibility of winning TWO individual Starleagues in the SAME SEASON. Of course, right now I can definitely see him potentially losing to Fantasy and even to Iris. But if he manages to conquer both of them and then have 3:0 ZvZ finals in both Starleagues, even I would be hard pressed to argue with his results. How long has it been, exactly, since a player won both the MSL and the OSL in the same season? | ||
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gaggar
Canada118 Posts
if he wins both osl and msn, it might look good on paper but jaedong failed to show the level of dominance required for a bonjwa. first of all, too much competition out there. matches with bisu, fantasy, flash, could go either way and even players like iris, effort, stork and skyhigh cannot be counted out. the most important facets of bonjwa is that you feel as if he would never lose to any competition he faces. that is not the case with the competitions above. each of the players mentioned above would have been a bonjwa if they appeared on the scene separately, but unfortunately they're all at their prime at the same time. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 09 2009 06:04 Kyo Yuy wrote: I am not saying Jaedong is a bonjwa right this moment. But Jaedong has the possibility of winning TWO individual Starleagues in the SAME SEASON. Of course, right now I can definitely see him potentially losing to Fantasy and even to Iris. But if he manages to conquer both of them and then have 3:0 ZvZ finals in both Starleagues, even I would be hard pressed to argue with his results. How long has it been, exactly, since a player won both the MSL and the OSL in the same season? It's not just a question of golds. It's a question of dominance. Jaedong doesn't show anywhere near the level of dominance over the entire scene that any of the 4 Bonjwas showed. | ||
Sigrun
United States1655 Posts
Congrats to T1, though I don't really like Fantasy. Hoping for an epic rematch in the OSL.  | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
honestly i used to enjoy watching fantasy going for interesting builds, but what fuck is this crap. his tvz really isnt so bad that he needs to bunker rush every game, but i guess thats the only tvz strat skt1 terrans think they can win with (boxer influence??) sorry for vulgarities, im just really angry because i was hoping for a long jd-bisu super ace =( | ||
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On August 09 2009 06:08 iamho wrote: fun to have such an exciting and hyped PL this year, but I fucking hate fantasy for ending the series with his fucking annoying cheese builds that aren't even original honestly i used to enjoy watching fantasy going for interesting builds, but what the fuck is this crap. his tvz really isnt so bad that he needs to bunker rush every game, but i guess thats the only tvz strat skt1 terrans think they can win with (boxer influence??) blah blah blah it's great for skt fans and terrible for jd fans | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On August 09 2009 06:06 Stratos_speAr wrote: It's not just a question of golds. It's a question of dominance. Jaedong doesn't show anywhere near the level of dominance over the entire scene that any of the 4 Bonjwas showed. The dominance issue is a matter of opinion. My response to the first post I quoted was to challenge the implication that no one would ever have another bonjwa dispute again. If Jaedong manages to win the OSL and the MSL, there WILL be people who feel Jaedong should be called a bonjwa. And there are people who will challenge that by referring to his 3 consecutive losses in the PL Grand Finals. My stance is not that Jaedong IS or DEFINITELY WILL BE bonjwa, but that the dispute is far from over. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32282 Posts
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32282 Posts
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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