Poll: Which KTF member needs to be traded away for a decent Protoss? (Vote): ShoGun (boy mascot) (Vote): ShoNyu (girl mascot) (Vote): LuCifer (Vote): Stats (Vote): Violet (Vote): Tempest
fanvote for ktf, but i have no hope in them in these days. (Z)EffOrt > (T)fOrGG (T)sKyHigh < (T)Flash (Flash will win this, and GOM S3 semifinals will be sKyHigh's Revenge) (Z)Kwanro >(Z)Luxury (P)Movie > (P)Violet
This is going to be an epic series, hopefully I can catch it Live. Even if they're playing against KTF, CJ should be able to take this home 3-1.
Effort has been on Fire recently and I do believe he can win against fOrGG even if the map is not exactly favorable. Flash hasn't been doing very good lately, I'm giving the win to Skyhigh here. Luxury SHOULD win his game, since his ZvZ is rather close to Jaedong's but who knows with Luxury ? Maybe he'll win, maybe he wont. I also consider Movie to be better than Violet, but they're both new players and they both have a lot to prove.
So there you have it, I predict CJ winning by 3-1.
sn't TvZ ForGG's best MU? Isn't Flash the best TvTer in the world? Isn't Lux 2nd best in the world in ZvZ?
Of course, because it's proleague, I can see ForGG, Flash, and Lux all KTFailing...
Yeah, but forgg has been slumping for months, skyhigh is a beast and Luxury is weak in PL.
Think about how one sided this would be if the lineups were played 10 months ago... It's kind of sad to see how quickly players can go from great to mediocre.
ForGG should win, but he might fall and choke on his keyboard 8 minutes into the game. Flash vs. Skyhigh will be interesting, I still give the edge to Flash but SkyHigh is hot right now. Lux ZvZ should own Kwanro.
On May 10 2009 02:40 3 Lions wrote: now that I actually have a half-decent chance in fantasy PL, I have to cheer for KTF on this one.
Take off that CJ logo now :<
Stay loyal no matter what
all my players suck too much to trade for CJ, I'm probably going to trade Thezerg for Jangbi/Iris/Savior/Free, and I would trade Oz for CJ, but Oz's value is still very low so I doubt I can
My brain on the first level says "KTF EASY LOOK AT DA LINEUPS" My brain on the second level says "CJ will win easy because KTF is so bad lol" On the THIRD level my brain says "KTF has been sucking this round, maybe this is where they turn it around"
fOrGG > EffOrt fOrGG is 70% TvZ with 40 games total and a 3-0 victory against Jaedong himself whereas EffOrt is exactly 50% ZvT. However fOrGG hasn't been doing too good lately so I'd say this is pretty equal. Predicting fOrGG to win for discussion's sake XD.
Flash < sKyHigh As much as I like both these players, I would prefer Flash to win. However sKyHigh is doing too good lately in comparison to Flash, especially TvT.
Luxury > Kwanro Luxury is doing pretty bad ever since his MSL win but can you honestly call him the underdog here?
On May 10 2009 00:10 cSf.Loser wrote: EffOrt > fOrGG - forgg played nothing recently:/ sKyHigh > FlaSh - not sure Kwanro > Luxury - lux has 0-3 on this map 3-0 cj or
fOrGG > EffOrt fOrGG is 70% TvZ with 40 games total and a 3-0 victory against Jaedong himself whereas EffOrt is exactly 50% ZvT. However fOrGG hasn't been doing too good lately so I'd say this is pretty equal. Predicting fOrGG to win for discussion's sake XD.
Flash < sKyHigh As much as I like both these players, I would prefer Flash to win. However sKyHigh is doing too good lately in comparison to Flash, especially TvT.
Luxury > Kwanro Luxury is doing pretty bad ever since his MSL win but can you honestly call him the underdog here?
On May 10 2009 00:10 cSf.Loser wrote: EffOrt > fOrGG - forgg played nothing recently:/ sKyHigh > FlaSh - not sure Kwanro > Luxury - lux has 0-3 on this map 3-0 cj or
most likely flash unless hoejja gonna snipe someone at ace?
on Heartbreak Ridge played only hojja and forgg from KTF since players mostly training on specify maps and forgg played nothing recently i assumed hojja
fOrGG > EffOrt fOrGG is 70% TvZ with 40 games total and a 3-0 victory against Jaedong himself whereas EffOrt is exactly 50% ZvT. However fOrGG hasn't been doing too good lately so I'd say this is pretty equal. Predicting fOrGG to win for discussion's sake XD.
Flash < sKyHigh As much as I like both these players, I would prefer Flash to win. However sKyHigh is doing too good lately in comparison to Flash, especially TvT.
Luxury > Kwanro Luxury is doing pretty bad ever since his MSL win but can you honestly call him the underdog here?
fOrGG > EffOrt fOrGG is 70% TvZ with 40 games total and a 3-0 victory against Jaedong himself whereas EffOrt is exactly 50% ZvT. However fOrGG hasn't been doing too good lately so I'd say this is pretty equal. Predicting fOrGG to win for discussion's sake XD.
Flash < sKyHigh As much as I like both these players, I would prefer Flash to win. However sKyHigh is doing too good lately in comparison to Flash, especially TvT.
Luxury > Kwanro Luxury is doing pretty bad ever since his MSL win but can you honestly call him the underdog here?
On May 10 2009 11:15 Avidkeystamper wrote: They're worse than Skyhigh and Effort. CJ coaches want to win/train their new players. =>No savior and Iris.
On May 10 2009 11:15 Avidkeystamper wrote: They're worse than Skyhigh and Effort. CJ coaches want to win/train their new players. =>No savior and Iris.
is that why they havent been in rotation lately?
If you were being serious, then how am I supposed to know? If you were being sarcastic, how am I supposed to know? It's a pointless question. No one's going to reply, Savior broke his leg that's why he's not playing. Sometimes Savior and Iris plays, sometimes they don't. Is that hard to understand?
This is probably the most evenly based set of matches I've seen all PL. Effort is good, but ForGG on even a decent night is enough to put him down. Given his recent slump I expect his marvelous zerg sniping not to show, but he should, at the very very least, put up an excellent match.
Skyhigh vs Flash is easy enough to see why. Skyhigh's already proven he can beat Flash, but Flash is Flash, and beating him one means jackall because, at the end of the day, he is still the best Terran in the world.
Kwanro vs Luxury, Luxury should win, but kind of the antithesis to Flash, Luxury IS Luxury and damn it all if he is the suckiest best player in the world.
And finally, Movie vs Violet. It seems easy enough to call in Movie's favor, but I wouldn't be surprised at an upset. The KTF Protosses have been showing up for PL like beasts lately, sporting impressive records (one loss between Violet and Tempest, I believe?), so if they came prepared enough, I could definitely see them taking a game at the currently super hot Movie.
ForGG lost four SCVs and 2-3 marines to the overpool. Effort looks to be going 2 hatch muta, and ForGG doesn't know if Effort is going 2 hatch or 3 hatch. Two starports up, one with a control tower.
Dang... Effort's initial harass with his lings delayed ForGG pretty badly. Lots of scvs pulled and killed as well. I'm not sure why ForGG chose not to wall-in.
Shouldn't most early gas builds wall-in? Especially since you won't be pumping as many marines early game.
On May 10 2009 13:38 Gliche wrote: wtf is with forgg?
seriously, ever since his win vs JD in arena msl, he's just been playing more and more like shit
i think there must have been some shady dealings going on.. like JD let 8G take him 3-0 in exchanged for forGG never qualifying for another starleague or somethin
Both players meet at the 9:00 expo, Flash loses most of his units as they were all about half health from the previous battle. Flash is expanding to 3:00 now.
Skyhigh attacks Flash's 3:00 but gets pincered by tanks and is essentially wiped out. Flash's tanks are still above Skyhigh's natural preventing Skyhigh from gathering gas from it.
Flash won the game when he was able to minimize the damage Skyhigh did to his nat gas while Flash was able to control Skyhigh's nat gas and nat expo for a very long time with his own line of sieged tanks
On May 10 2009 13:49 udgnim wrote: wow seems Flash has a ton more tanks than Skyhigh even though Skyhigh got his nat first
Yeah, what's up with that. Is it just a result of Flash having superior macro, or did sKyHigh make a strategic mistake?
Flash is smart when facing tanks, he killed the refinery and whenever there's a siege tank fight, he always targets his opponent's tanks first. Flash's smart play won him that game. He always does everything to maintain his tank count like sacrificing his SCVs when Skyhigh attacked his 2 o clock expansion.
If it was firebathero just ago, he would have done nothing and just waited for the nuke, maybe even let the other guy feel better by throwing away a few units just to make him feel worse.
On May 10 2009 14:01 udgnim wrote: Flash won the game when he was able to minimize the damage Skyhigh did to his nat gas while Flash was able to control Skyhigh's nat gas and nat expo for a very long time with his own line of sieged tanks
The tanks were there more to deny SkyHigh's third while Flash got his third up and running.
On May 10 2009 13:49 udgnim wrote: wow seems Flash has a ton more tanks than Skyhigh even though Skyhigh got his nat first
Yeah, what's up with that. Is it just a result of Flash having superior macro, or did sKyHigh make a strategic mistake?
Flash had 3 factories all with machine shops while skyhigh had 2 at that point in the game, and only 1 with a machine shop because he decided to tech to dropships, sacrificing 100 gas for staport, 100 for the dropship, 50 for the control tower.
Skyhigh's initial dropship did pretty much zero damage compared to Flash's attack on skyhigh's natural
Flash also destroyed skyhigh's natural gas which stayed that way for a long time. Flash also picked up his 3rd gas WAY earlier than skyhigh.
On May 10 2009 14:17 kaleidoscope wrote: Both players did 12pool gas..
It's the safest build on the map. 5pool is hard to pull off, so there's little need to go 9pool/overpool for safety, and 12pool gets you good econ without having to worry about 9pool
luxury encounters at kwanro's main. a ton of scourge hits for both players. Kwanro though.... has 2-3 extra mutas, wrecking luxury's natural. 5 drone kills
God dam why do I always bet on KTF. Every single time they put out their best line out so I am like ok Flash gonna win, so if ForGG,Lux OR 3rd player wins 1 game out of 3. Then its gonna be Ace and Flash wins, but apparently no one on KTF can win except Flash. (Hopefully Violet proves me wrong)
On May 10 2009 14:29 Shivaz wrote: God dam why do I always bet on KTF. Every single time they put out their best line out so I am like ok Flash gonna win, so if ForGG,Lux OR 3rd player wins 1 game out of 3. Then its gonna be Ace and Flash wins, but apparently no one on KTF can win except Flash. (Hopefully Violet proves me wrong)
On May 10 2009 14:29 Shivaz wrote: God dam why do I always bet on KTF. Every single time they put out their best line out so I am like ok Flash gonna win, so if ForGG,Lux OR 3rd player wins 1 game out of 3. Then its gonna be Ace and Flash wins, but apparently no one on KTF can win except Flash. (Hopefully Violet proves me wrong)
On May 10 2009 14:29 Shivaz wrote: God dam why do I always bet on KTF. Every single time they put out their best line out so I am like ok Flash gonna win, so if ForGG,Lux OR 3rd player wins 1 game out of 3. Then its gonna be Ace and Flash wins, but apparently no one on KTF can win except Flash. (Hopefully Violet proves me wrong)
Same here I hope Violet can pull a win though and bring it to the ace. And then I hope that KTFail won't strike again sending out ForGG cause he sucks lately!!!
i love how you can feel the players struggling against the KeSPA. you know he did that on purpose, just to be like "whatcha gonna do?" hes the most recent MSL winner right? seriously what are they gonna do!! LOL lux ftw!!!
On May 10 2009 14:42 Mista wrote: What's happening ?!?!
A KTF protoss won.
:V
KTF was known for their protosses for like 5 years running and violet and tempest have been tearing PL up. They and Flash are the only redeeming KTF beacons in pl.
4 gate zeal... craziness. Movie had no idea it was coming until violet moved out with his zealot blocking the ramp. As soon as Movie saw no gas taken, he responded properly with the shield batteries, just horrid micro with probes and let the zealots breach his ramp too easily.
Then after that.... he only had 1 pylon powering his gateways.... so yeah... unfortunate
On May 10 2009 14:46 konadora wrote: SAVIORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
please
EFFORT?
Did Saviors loss to Zero really hurt him that much. Just before that he was on a 9 game winning streak and now he sucks =(.
sAviOr won every game this Round but lost to Sea and they havent played him since? hes like 3-1 this round- which is fantastic for proleague. i wouldnt say its that sAviOr is bad at all, its just they are investing in their future here. if Effort wins, its huge for him.
i think had movie put his 2nd gate at his expo rather than in his main, his DT would have came out in time to fend the zealots off. He could put his DT blocking the ramps to his main and natural. After that though... iunno Violet still probably had a massive advantage.
Effort won that game by doing a successful fake to hydras, timing his lurkers to coincide with Flash's bio timing (this is critical, if a zerg mistimes this, he loses) and stopping Flash's drop without lurkers.
On May 10 2009 15:21 Avidkeystamper wrote: Effort won that game by doing a successful fake to hydras, timing his lurkers to coincide with Flash's bio timing (this is critical, if a zerg mistimes this, he loses) and stopping Flash's drop without lurkers.
on top of that, fantastic swarm timings to save expo, battling on 2 fronts, and an epic break at the natural FTW!!! man that was sweet.
The replay of that game shows how Effort does a fantastic job using his lurker ling force to block Flash's terran ball until "consume" finishes researching. That maybe won him the game right there.
Holy shit, are you kidding me? My internet goes down with something like 2 minutes left, I run to the other room to the laptop and get a stream and it's over...
I'm not tvz expert, but would somebody care to explain why t always sieges up vs sunks when they have sufficent amounts of units? I mean I know they don't want to have too many losses, but 3 sunks vs 3 tanks and around 8ish marines and a few medics would go down really quick. If Flash did that he'd snipe the hatch before the swarms came to save it.
Now, time for my cheers. Good shit CJ!!! Effort Hwaiting! Needs Savior also =]
On May 10 2009 15:33 Zozma wrote: CJ doesn't suck anymore.
Seriously, guys.
SKT1 is probably going to lose.
Well, we shall see....
For one, I think everytime I see matches of CJ vs SKT1, it's like the battle of titans!
But then again, with SKT1 lineups being the constant same 3 focused people (and now thezerg), I'm sort of believing that unless teams have players specifially trained to snipe those following players in the exact same matchup and order, it's going to be hard....
On May 10 2009 15:33 JIJIyO wrote: I'm not tvz expert, but would somebody care to explain why t always sieges up vs sunks when they have sufficent amounts of units? I mean I know they don't want to have too many losses, but 3 sunks vs 3 tanks and around 8ish marines and a few medics would go down really quick. If Flash did that he'd snipe the hatch before the swarms came to save it.
Now, time for my cheers. Good shit CJ!!! Effort Hwaiting! Needs Savior also =]
if he charged in his units would have gotten trapped and killed and he woulda been hard pressed to hold the counter given how much shit + swarm effort had.
In a year Effort goes from dropping a game to tossgirl and being a Bteamer to being an ace player and beating the best terran in the world in a high pressure situation and another great tvz player in the same match.
On May 10 2009 15:25 konadora wrote: If CJ defeats SKT1 next match, they will swap ranking and CJ will be 2nd.
Like that will ever happen
Word.
That WILL NEVER HAPPEN! Bisu-BeSt-Fantasy > SEEJAY
as much as i think you are an annoying fanboy i will have to agree with you
CJ's lineup just can't match up with the sheer starpower that SKT brings SKT is doing what STX did a few rounds back
STX Few rounds ago
July Hwasin Kal Calm
SKT now Bisu Best DAzurg Fantasy
ridic
How Thezerg deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as any of those other players (except maybe Calm) is beyond me. He got a bit of hype when he qualified for the Incruit Ro16, but to this day I haven't seen anything to back it up. He's had a handful of PL wins lately, but nothing spectacular - wins over HiyA and a slumping JangBi are about it.
If you want to point me to a recent game where he looked particularly impressive I'll be glad to reconsider, but right now I just don't see it.
On May 10 2009 15:33 JIJIyO wrote: I'm not tvz expert, but would somebody care to explain why t always sieges up vs sunks when they have sufficent amounts of units? I mean I know they don't want to have too many losses, but 3 sunks vs 3 tanks and around 8ish marines and a few medics would go down really quick. If Flash did that he'd snipe the hatch before the swarms came to save it.
Now, time for my cheers. Good shit CJ!!! Effort Hwaiting! Needs Savior also =]
if he charged in his units would have gotten trapped and killed and he woulda been hard pressed to hold the counter given how much shit + swarm effort had.
Ah, okay. I guess that makes sense. I also see it other times as well in other games, but I don't think the z has a lot of units. Maybe it's like you said and the terran might just assume z has a lot of shit, so they won't charge in recklessly (even if in reality zerg doesn't). I guess progamers have their reasoning behind this though because they are progamers for a reason heh.
Luxury and ForGG are apparently the worst MSL winners around in PL. :>
Only GGplay is more disappointing really. KTF really can't wait for winners league, because then and only then does Luxury actually start to shine, and then Flash can go ahead and be their Jaedong.
On May 10 2009 17:29 JWD wrote: The blame for this loss really has to fall on Luxury...losing ZvZs like this is really unacceptable, and holding KTF back in PL.
you're so damn right JWD, Lux lost this match for KTF. But its okay from KTF Coach to send out Flash on last match, he is still the Powerhorse. With that much pressure on his shoulders, who can blame him for losing though...
PS: Is Lux now on a 7-game losing streak in proleague? and all zvz? i think someone failed miserably with this months powerrank^^
I more and more begining to understand why Oz let ForGG go. Damn effort is like the second best Z atm and yes Flash is better vs P and T but not by much.
The only thing thats going in KTF's way is at least their protoss player Violet is on a 6 game winning streak and is part of the reason KTF has been winning some mathes in PL . Luxury and ForGG really have to step it up thought .
On May 10 2009 23:45 Nitan wrote: Flash, why do you do this to me?
At least he schooled Skyhigh. But it was painful to watch his game against Effort. I was so hyped that I will see Flash playing again and then such a disappointing ending...
But what the heck is wrong with ForGG? This guy is losing left ad right... Not to mention Luxury who is just playing rubbish. WTF is wrong with them. I never expected much from ForGG but Luxury? His ZvZ used to be soooo good...
At least Violet is playing well. Sure, he hasn't faced yet any top class opponents but he seems to be capable of the thing noone on KTF is capable of (obviously excluding Flash), that is to win againt average opponents,
On May 11 2009 01:54 Orbifold wrote: I know this has to be take with a huge grain of salt give that I am a huge Flash fan boy, but I can't take seriously any TvZ on battle Royale.
Well thats good because the match was on Heartbreak Ridge......
On May 13 2009 10:04 TheTeamLiquidTiger wrote: just a random question but is ACE still last in the Proleague?
Yes and it's basically impossible for them to get to 11th. They are so far behind that even if they win every game from here on, eSTRO would only have to 4 or so to stay ahead out of the 14-15ish games that are left.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pachi/banner/SPL_080930.png)
![[image loading]](http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/622/cj6k.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2572/ktf1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.gif)
: 35-22, ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png)
: 42-33, ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.gif)
: 23-19 ![[image loading]](http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4328/effortrighttz1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3952/outsider.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6827/forgg.jpg)
EffOrt < Outsider > 
fOrGG![[image loading]](http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/5757/skyhighright.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1711/destinationthumbdm7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3812/flash1y.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7783/kwanrorightsz9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8058/battleroyal.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6616/luxury.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8061/movierightzn6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2723/godsgarden.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1686/violetd.jpg)
Movie < God's Garden > ![[image loading]](http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4813/cjlong.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3428/heartbreakridge.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5025/ktflogo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/photo/1241932069_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/9332/kwanrolled.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/875336/SCPictures/KWANROLLED.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://daryld.com/schtuff/microsoft_werd.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8127/effort.jpg)
