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On April 06 2009 04:42 Hot_Bid wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 06 2009 04:36 StylishVODs wrote:
Moving on..
I can't believe how jaedong lost game 2 though.
Fireing at that barrack and move the hydras away from the ramp is sucha noob mistake. That was a really big mistake by jaedong.
Also I don't see how anyone would want to go 2port wraith vs jaedong, thats like wanting to play him zvz. Its just stupid^^ I think Fantasy just wanted to keep doing unorthodox things, which really is the right strategy against Jaedong. Wraith probably had a better chance than standard bio or whatever, and was a switch up from the mech builds that he used the previous 3 games. Plus he was already behind due to the proxy fac being scouted and delayed also.
Yeah well I think he already had 2port in mind and float fact and everything he did that game.
Indeed he needed to mix things up, thats his strength and he would have gotten demolished by jaedong in a normal tvz. However since he had alot of time to prepare with players such as oov and boxer I think it would have been better to come up with something else, unique or allin doesnt matter but not 2port wraith zvz style.
edit: also, proxfact being scouted wasn't sucha big deal since jaedong would have assumed that the factory was proxied anyway given his early dronescout. However that the scv actually kept building on the wrong spot so the drone could kill it was bad for fantasy. He even placed the factory at a position where like 75% of the area that the scv was building on would be untouchable for the drone.
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Braavos36387 Posts
yeah i noticed that, the scv moved three times yet stayed in range every time, it was pretty unlucky
also:
fantasy with early mines: 2-0
fantasy without early mines: 0-3
RESEARCH MINES
edit: game 3 was also retardedly close, i couldn't tell who was going to win that battle at fantasy's nat until it was almost over
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Yeah its quite common now that you research speed instead of mines when doing the fantasybuild with the drop.
I guess its more effective vs drones since most zergs gets some hydras before their tech when they face mech. And also better if zergs gets lingsspeed like some do vs fast drop.
But its also risky since you can't place mines outside zergs natural.
edit: yeah it was. Also you could notice that this time jaedong had his 2 hydras blocking the ramp. They should really have blocked the ramp game 2 aswell i bet jaedong blocked his ramp in all his practicegames. 8raxmech into vulture runby is suchan easy win if zerg doesn't block.
anyway game 3, jaedongs ling sneaking into fantasys base was awesome and probably triggered the perfectly timed attack.
If jaedong would have come a few seconds later, 1 more turret and 2 more golaiths would have been out. I was really nervous that attack because I had a hard time seeing how many mutalisks jaedong actually had.
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Not to mention mines really suit Fantasy/Jung Laden's nature. Just like him, they have low endurance, but deal ridiculous damage if not scouted/prepared for. They substantially increase the randomness of any game in which they make an appearance, which was precisely what Fantasy needed to do as a player—he needed to throw Jaedong so off balance that he would never be able to focus on his own strengths. Fantasy rocked Jaedong, but he failed to tip him over. It's bad for him, but it's extremely good for viewers and the game as a whole. After a great series like this, I've really come to appreciate what he brings to the table, which is something I'd been resisting for a while. He puts standard play (which Jaedong epitomizes so perfectly) in a position where it has to prove itself all over again.
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On April 06 2009 05:04 EvoChamber wrote:
Not to mention mines really suit Fantasy/Jung Laden's nature. Just like him, they have low endurance, but deal ridiculous damage if not scouted/prepared for. They substantially increase the randomness of any game in which they make an appearance, which was precisely what Fantasy needed to do as a player—he needed to throw Jaedong so off balance that he would never be able to focus on his own strengths. Fantasy rocked Jaedong, but he failed to tip him over. It's bad for him, but it's extremely good for viewers and the game as a whole.
Hah, i like the comparison.
Yeah those who was disapointed by the series are wierd.
This was one of the most intense series ever.
Everything mattered, all the little moves in the early game, every unitdecision. One minor flaw and the game was over.
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Braavos36387 Posts
Before game 3 started I said in IRC that it this game was probably the toughest of Jaedong's career. It really tests your mental and physical abilities. Jaedong got absolutely rocked in games 1 and 2. Fantasy had zero pressure, confidence, and momentum. Jaedong was down 0-2 and making uncharacteristic mistakes. Game 3 was the true test, and like a champ Jaedong pulled through in a ridiculously close battle at Fantasy's nat.
Even though game 3 was only marginally impressive skillwise, I think it really demonstrated just how tenacious and mentally strong Jaedong was. Really impressive game.
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Yeah. I was like, ok he's dominated the WL, he's won major titles, and now he shows this mental strenght. He's got it all. Truely one of the greatest gamers ever.
Im so glad jaedong didn't fall apart. The first game was ok, I don't think it affected jaedong that much but the second game must have hurt.
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Yeah, this series wasn't obviously exciting (no gigantic army clashes), but if people watched closely, they really got to see the game at a much more subtle and refined level than they would have anywhere else. Fanboys wanted their money back, but devotees got exactly what they wanted. This series was pretty much a perfect case study for the section on best-of-fives in a Starcraft textbook: not just the obvious importances of preparation and presence of mind, but also the need to come at the opponent mentally with an attack designed specifically to be used against him—and how to recover from such an attack. The series was never going to be flashy simply because of the nature of Fantasy's strengths, which are almost purely mind and metagame-based.
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The 1 drone + 2lings should definately be added to pimpest plays 2009.
Also 2ctrlgroup muta micro vs iris.
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God that whole bo5 was amazing. Every play, every win, every loss- beautiful!
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On April 06 2009 04:30 koreasilver wrote:
You're wrong about things more than half the time; you're basically some arm-chair theory-crafting fellow that can't give back proper responses half the time and toss irrelevant statements back to everyone that corrects you, which is basically every thread you post in.
The Korean commentators get stuff wrong quite a lot, and you yourself don't understand Korean and have to ask some Korean friend to translate for you. So for fuck's sake, what are you on about? You obviously don't understand the game beyond an extremely superficial degree, and you're trying to claim that you understand the game more than people like Idra?
Oh really, and you know that my arguments are wrong because you yourself simply know better than me, am I right? And you know for a fact that when members of teamliquid believe something, they're much more likely than any stupid commentators in Korea to know what they're talking about, is that what you're saying? Oh and of course *my* comments are improper and irrelevant, since I'm obviously throwing swear words and insults around in every post, to the point that anyone else on the site is afraid to say something that goes against the vocal minority. I suppose the extremely lengthy responses I craft which respond to every detail someone I'm arguing with points out are irrelevant too. Oh dear, how ever will I improve myself to your level of greatness?
No one on this forum can claim to understand the game "better" than another person, which is what I seem to hear from a few pompous members. That includes a bad-mannered Idra who is incapable of discussing Starcraft with his peers because he lacks even a basic understanding of Korean.
There is a freaking good reason why teams have different coaches for *each race*. There is a reason why a coach like iloveoov will claim he can't coach a non-terran player. And there are many good reasons why pro players are not nearly as good at their off-races, and wouldn't dare comment on what they thought a player of another race "should have done" in any particular situation. For you to claim that my responses are "obviously" wrong or irrelevant only demonstrates your unparalleled arrogance. It's disgusting, and your concurrent use of vulgar language is immature.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
How about they aren't as good with their off races, because they play them way, way less than their main race? Or is that too obvious for you?
Stop derailing this thread with your crap please. Thanks.
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On April 06 2009 06:34 latent wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 04:30 koreasilver wrote:
You're wrong about things more than half the time; you're basically some arm-chair theory-crafting fellow that can't give back proper responses half the time and toss irrelevant statements back to everyone that corrects you, which is basically every thread you post in.
The Korean commentators get stuff wrong quite a lot, and you yourself don't understand Korean and have to ask some Korean friend to translate for you. So for fuck's sake, what are you on about? You obviously don't understand the game beyond an extremely superficial degree, and you're trying to claim that you understand the game more than people like Idra? Oh really, and you know that my arguments are wrong because you yourself simply know better than me, am I right? And you know for a fact that when members of teamliquid believe something, they're much more likely than any stupid commentators in Korea to know what they're talking about, is that what you're saying? Oh and of course *my* comments are improper and irrelevant, since I'm obviously throwing swear words and insults around in every post, to the point that anyone else on the site is afraid to say something that goes against the vocal minority. I suppose the extremely lengthy responses I craft which respond to every detail someone I'm arguing with points out are irrelevant too. Oh dear, how ever will I improve myself to your level of greatness? No one on this forum can claim to understand the game "better" than another person, which is what I seem to hear from a few pompous members. That includes a bad-mannered Idra who is incapable of discussing Starcraft with his peers because he lacks even a basic understanding of Korean. There is a freaking good reason why teams have different coaches for *each race*. There is a reason why a coach like iloveoov will claim he can't coach a non-terran player. And there are many good reasons why pro players are not nearly as good at their off-races, and wouldn't dare comment on what they thought a player of another race "should have done" in any particular situation. For you to claim that my responses are "obviously" wrong or irrelevant only demonstrates your unparalleled arrogance. It's disgusting, and your concurrent use of vulgar language is immature.
I bet no one agrees with u 
arrogants...right ^^
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8751 Posts
On April 06 2009 06:34 latent wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 04:30 koreasilver wrote:
You're wrong about things more than half the time; you're basically some arm-chair theory-crafting fellow that can't give back proper responses half the time and toss irrelevant statements back to everyone that corrects you, which is basically every thread you post in.
The Korean commentators get stuff wrong quite a lot, and you yourself don't understand Korean and have to ask some Korean friend to translate for you. So for fuck's sake, what are you on about? You obviously don't understand the game beyond an extremely superficial degree, and you're trying to claim that you understand the game more than people like Idra? Oh really, and you know that my arguments are wrong because you yourself simply know better than me, am I right? And you know for a fact that when members of teamliquid believe something, they're much more likely than any stupid commentators in Korea to know what they're talking about, is that what you're saying? Oh and of course *my* comments are improper and irrelevant, since I'm obviously throwing swear words and insults around in every post, to the point that anyone else on the site is afraid to say something that goes against the vocal minority. I suppose the extremely lengthy responses I craft which respond to every detail someone I'm arguing with points out are irrelevant too. Oh dear, how ever will I improve myself to your level of greatness? No one on this forum can claim to understand the game "better" than another person, which is what I seem to hear from a few pompous members. That includes a bad-mannered Idra who is incapable of discussing Starcraft with his peers because he lacks even a basic understanding of Korean. There is a freaking good reason why teams have different coaches for *each race*. There is a reason why a coach like iloveoov will claim he can't coach a non-terran player. And there are many good reasons why pro players are not nearly as good at their off-races, and wouldn't dare comment on what they thought a player of another race "should have done" in any particular situation. For you to claim that my responses are "obviously" wrong or irrelevant only demonstrates your unparalleled arrogance. It's disgusting, and your concurrent use of vulgar language is immature.
Some facts:
-IdrA can discuss SC with his peers just fine
-Teams don't have a coach for each race. Most coaches hardly advise the players on gameplay at all. Recently, there have been more former progamers taking up coaching positions, so that is changing.
-Progamers do advise progamers of other races.
-If one guy is significantly better at the game than another guy has ever been, then that first guy understands the game better. SC is unlike sports such as basketball, football, soccer, etc, in that respect. There are little or no examples of bad players with good understanding.
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That was an absolutely epic series - my internet was playing up like crazy so I was sitting on this thread hitting F5F5F5F5F5, especially when Jaedong went 0-2 down. I just watched the games now and they are every bit as epic as they sounded. The drone block was incredible - I wonder what fantasy must have been thinking when he saw it..
On April 06 2009 06:34 latent wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 04:30 koreasilver wrote:
You're wrong about things more than half the time; you're basically some arm-chair theory-crafting fellow that can't give back proper responses half the time and toss irrelevant statements back to everyone that corrects you, which is basically every thread you post in.
The Korean commentators get stuff wrong quite a lot, and you yourself don't understand Korean and have to ask some Korean friend to translate for you. So for fuck's sake, what are you on about? You obviously don't understand the game beyond an extremely superficial degree, and you're trying to claim that you understand the game more than people like Idra? Oh really, and you know that my arguments are wrong because you yourself simply know better than me, am I right? And you know for a fact that when members of teamliquid believe something, they're much more likely than any stupid commentators in Korea to know what they're talking about, is that what you're saying? Oh and of course *my* comments are improper and irrelevant, since I'm obviously throwing swear words and insults around in every post, to the point that anyone else on the site is afraid to say something that goes against the vocal minority. I suppose the extremely lengthy responses I craft which respond to every detail someone I'm arguing with points out are irrelevant too. Oh dear, how ever will I improve myself to your level of greatness? No one on this forum can claim to understand the game "better" than another person, which is what I seem to hear from a few pompous members. That includes a bad-mannered Idra who is incapable of discussing Starcraft with his peers because he lacks even a basic understanding of Korean. There is a freaking good reason why teams have different coaches for *each race*. There is a reason why a coach like iloveoov will claim he can't coach a non-terran player. And there are many good reasons why pro players are not nearly as good at their off-races, and wouldn't dare comment on what they thought a player of another race "should have done" in any particular situation. For you to claim that my responses are "obviously" wrong or irrelevant only demonstrates your unparalleled arrogance. It's disgusting, and your concurrent use of vulgar language is immature.
No relevance to the above quote, but is there a way of putting people on an ignore list so you don't have to read their posts?
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i just watched the games.
game 5
that 2 lings + drone blocking the vulture was fucking sick
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On April 06 2009 08:49 Kacas wrote:
i just watched the games.
game 5
that 2 lings + drone blocking the vulture was fucking sick
same just watched the games too, ^______^
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most memorable part of this OSL : epic vulture snipe
2nd most memorable: OP's epic predictions
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Stop feeding the troll please.
My question is, how common is it to do that sort of hydra/muta or zergling/muta attack? He did it in games 3 and 5 and it seemed really effective against specialized mech units.
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EPT
