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On April 06 2009 04:06 StylishVODs wrote:
Heh, commentators aren't usually as good as gamers juding games anyway. The vulture would have cause alot of damage. It was awesome timing by jaedong, and that vulture would probably have killed alot of drones and minetime and fantasy would have won the game. Vulture floating there on the first try when jaedong had no lings/speed and was waiting for spire is just awesome for terran.
I donä't know about your comments being wrong etc but in this case I don't think you realize how much damage that vult would have done in this specific scenario.
Also, that thing about luck.
Imo jaedong was abit lucky he chose zerg that last match since if he was protoss he wouldn't have had any marines with his probe and the vulture would have gotten into his base before his spire was done and would probably have given fantasy a 4-0 lead.
lol
but yeah, even if the vult wouldn't have done that much of a damage, it could've been enough for a better defense against mutas, and that would've totally changed the game.
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Oh please. There are coaches in the NBA, NFL, NHL, heck every sport out there that never played at the pro level. In the last 10 years there has been a statistical "revolution" in most major sports around the world, throwing strongly-believed "rules" out the window in the process. No one here, and that includes a bm non Korean-speaking Idra, can make a claim as to have any "special" knowledge of the game. He was drafted for his mechanics, not his smarts. That also includes people who declare their "agreement" with a "power rank" that rates a newcomer like Leta at the top.
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Braavos36379 Posts
latent, it's pretty obvious that the vulture dying to 2lings+drone made a huge, huge impact on game 5. i can't believe you'd think it'd make "no difference" if it got into jaedong's main where there was plenty of open space, his lings had no speed, and spire was just started
that's ridiculous, why were the korean commentators going insane over it? why were the fans? everyone on teamliquid.net? is 99.99% of viewers just really stupid and you are the only one who sees the insignificance of this?
at some point you're just going to have to admit you were wrong on this point and move on. the vulture dying was absolutely huge especially since Jaedong went for low eco 2 hatch spire. it would've delayed lots of mining time, killed several drones, and forced jaedong to lay a sunken or make lings.
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I dont understand your post latent :O
I thought we were talking about the vulture here..
But yeah leta in the top was never good. jaedong flash bisu go.
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On April 06 2009 04:12 latent wrote:
Oh please. There are coaches in the NBA, NFL, NHL, heck every sport out there that never played at the pro level. In the last 10 years there has been a statistical "revolution" in most major sports around the world, throwing strongly-believed "rules" out the window in the process. No one here, and that includes a bm non Korean-speaking Idra, can make a claim as to have any "special" knowledge of the game. He was drafted for his mechanics, not his smarts. That also includes people who declare their "agreement" with a "power rank" that rates a newcomer like Leta at the top.
hey
genius
he had no tech and mutas werent coming soon, its near impossible to kill a vulture with drones and slow lings on open ground. at the very least he would have had a handful of drones off mining until mutas were out, he probably woulda lost a couple of drones, and he woulda had to spend larvae on lings. and no had he a-moved he woulda died too, 2 lings and a drone kill a vulture far faster than it gets off 6 shots. his best bet was to try to sneak around, as there wasnt really room there to patrol micro. jaedong blocked him off with the drone, there wasnt anything he could do. but it most definitely would have mattered.
thats why you're wrong
respond to it or shut the fuck up
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Braavos36379 Posts
On April 06 2009 04:12 latent wrote:
Oh please. There are coaches in the NBA, NFL, NHL, heck every sport out there that never played at the pro level. In the last 10 years there has been a statistical "revolution" in most major sports around the world, throwing strongly-believed "rules" out the window in the process. No one here, and that includes a bm non Korean-speaking Idra, can make a claim as to have any "special" knowledge of the game. He was drafted for his mechanics, not his smarts. That also includes people who declare their "agreement" with a "power rank" that rates a newcomer like Leta at the top.
Idra being a retard or being Einstein doesn't change the fact that the vulture dying at that timing was hugely significant to Game 5. You are absolutely 100% wrong in saying it wouldn't have done damage anyway.
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On April 06 2009 03:49 latent wrote:Strange, almost every post I make agrees with what Korean commentators say during the matches.
No, not really.
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I'm not even talking about the vulture. I'll accede that point.
But it seemed like Jaedong was going for extremely fast mutalisks, knowing the valkyrie build leaves a specific timing window open. Even if a vulture got in and delayed the build a little bit, it wouldn't have made enough of a difference. More likely Jaedong wouldn't have bothered replacing the drones, and just started off with 5 mutas instead of 6.
I'm ticked off about being told that "You're wrong all the time" by Idra and a couple of other pompous and arrogant users in every thread I post in.
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On April 06 2009 04:17 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2009 03:49 latent wrote:how is every post you make wrong Strange, almost every post I make agrees with what Korean commentators say during the matches. No, not really.
Uh, yes really. Dating all the way back to Bisu's match against Hoejja where the commentators were screaming at how Bisu shouldn't attack the center.
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?
its because you ARE
its not like people just flat out say it, they say it and then explain why the post in that given thread is wrong.
and you never have a response because you always are wrong
when you're always wrong you cant really get mad at people for pointing it out
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Braavos36379 Posts
On April 06 2009 04:20 latent wrote:
I'm not even talking about the vulture. I'll accede that point.
I'm ticked off about being told that "You're wrong all the time" by Idra and a couple of other pompous and arrogant users in every thread I post in.
Uhh...
On April 06 2009 04:05 latent wrote:
...
Whenever I provide an argument instead of receiving a rational counterpoint to my detailed points, a few immature users throw ad hominems left and right, and no one has the courage to call them on their juvenile behavior.
...
Well the vulture example is pretty rational, and pretty detailed, and you were absolutely 100% wrong about that. It's shocking because its so obvious that it was a huge moment for just about everyone, yet you brush it aside like its nothing. How can 99% of viewers understand the meaning of something, even people who barely watch SC or are D- newbies, yet you completely miss it?
If you're going to come in with an elitist attitude (check the other threads), constantly talk about how the Korean commentators agree with you, and cry about how people don't present detailed points against you, be prepared to get a lot of shit when you're so absolutely wrong on a specific point like with the vulture.
It still boggles my mind that you think the vulture getting in wouldn't have mattered.
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On April 06 2009 04:23 IdrA wrote:
?
its because you ARE
its not like people just flat out say it, they say it and then explain why the post in that given thread is wrong.
and you never have a response because you always are wrong
when you're always wrong you cant really get mad at people for pointing it out
Are you nuts? In my thread about Bisu vs. Heojja I specifically went through a video, pointed out something like 5-10 different points in the match (pointing out the minutes and seconds they occurred), and made arguments about each moment. And all I got was an inane and phlegmatic "you're wrong" for a response, coupled with insults and "LOL UR AN IDIOT"-like comments.
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On April 06 2009 04:20 latent wrote:
I'm not even talking about the vulture. I'll accede that point.
But it seemed like Jaedong was going for extremely fast mutalisks, knowing the valkyrie build leaves a specific timing window open. Even if a vulture got in and delayed the build a little bit, it wouldn't have made enough of a difference. More likely Jaedong wouldn't have bothered replacing the drones, and just started off with 5 mutas instead of 6.
killing drones and taking mining time makes the mutalisk build essentially an allin, leaving terran free to over turret so they arent totally dependent on the valkryie to hold off the mutas, and then once the mutas fail terran has solid 2 base econ and zerg has like 10 drones.
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*I* come in with an elitist attitude? How about the thread where FakeSteve was pounding his chest while grunting about how he makes the "Power Ranking" and thus knows everything? Where the devil does my "elitist" attitude come in to play?
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Braavos36379 Posts
On April 06 2009 04:27 latent wrote:
*I* come in with an elitist attitude? How about the thread where FakeSteve was pounding his chest while grunting about how he makes the "Power Ranking" and thus knows everything? Where the devil does my "elitist" attitude come in to play?
Are you making an argument that because someone else takes an arrogant/elitist attitude, you are allowed to as well? Or are you arguing that you don't have an elitist attitude?
Because the first argument has no bearing on anything and the second is flat wrong.
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Braavos36379 Posts
Also, weren't you the guy who lectured everyone about how important getting one or two drone kills early game was? How can you say that then say the vulture wouldn't have mattered?
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You're wrong about things more than half the time; you're basically some arm-chair theory-crafting fellow that can't give back proper responses half the time and toss irrelevant statements back to everyone that corrects you, which is basically every thread you post in.
The Korean commentators get stuff wrong quite a lot, and you yourself don't understand Korean and have to ask some Korean friend to translate for you. So for fuck's sake, what are you on about? You obviously don't understand the game beyond an extremely superficial degree, and you're trying to claim that you understand the game more than people like Idra?
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On April 06 2009 04:27 latent wrote:
*I* come in with an elitist attitude? How about the thread where FakeSteve was pounding his chest while grunting about how he makes the "Power Ranking" and thus knows everything? Where the devil does my "elitist" attitude come in to play?
Ad hominem tu quoque.
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Moving on..
I can't believe how jaedong lost game 2 though.
Fireing at that barrack and move the hydras away from the ramp is sucha noob mistake. That was a really big mistake by jaedong.
Also I don't see how anyone would want to go 2port wraith vs jaedong, thats like wanting to play him zvz. Its just stupid^^
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Braavos36379 Posts
On April 06 2009 04:36 StylishVODs wrote:
Moving on..
I can't believe how jaedong lost game 2 though.
Fireing at that barrack and move the hydras away from the ramp is sucha noob mistake. That was a really big mistake by jaedong.
Also I don't see how anyone would want to go 2port wraith vs jaedong, thats like wanting to play him zvz. Its just stupid^^
I think Fantasy just wanted to keep doing unorthodox things, which really is the right strategy against Jaedong. Wraith probably had a better chance than standard bio or whatever, and was a switch up from the mech builds that he used the previous 3 games. Plus he was already behind due to the proxy fac being scouted and delayed also.
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EPT
