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[WL] FINALS: CJ vs OZ - Page 134
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[X]Ken_D
United States4650 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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food
United States1951 Posts
On March 29 2009 13:32 latent wrote: Uh food, I'm sorry but, from the WL Interview: - SkyHigh: I practiced a lot of TvZ for Rush Hour 3 so I was confident. I think I won more easily because Jeadong all-ined. I thought it would be a tough game but I won quite easily so it felt weird. I'd also love it if people stopped harping on JD's build order. The 5 pool *worked*, or at least it would have if JD had executed it properly. Skyhigh's micro wasn't top-notch, as he lost his first two marines to the first 6 zerglings. If JD had continued to reinforce his units the match would have been over. But instead he went all drones, expanded, made no sunkens, upgraded ling speed.... and basically screwed himself over. So JD's initial decision WAS genius, but it was everything after that sucked. he quoted this already, skyhigh just stated that he was very comfortable with this map since he played a ton on it. He says nothing about getting ready for the game vs JD or practicing RH3 specifically for finals( it was 4th map in the pool and CJ sends 3 people in front of him), he played a lot of TVZ on it THROUGHOUT THE SEASON, its not tied to anything particular. Obviously he was a "sniper" vs ANY given zerg in ANY WL match on RH3 when main CJ player was done. Picking him on RH3 as the last player was the only option for CJ this time. | ||
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Baddieko
Singapore855 Posts
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latent
United States428 Posts
Also, I'd like to point out to people praising SH for his win over Hiya... He was actually in troubled waters until Hiya screwed himself over by attacking SH's 3rd. SH had gained a distinct army advantage after Hiya sacrificed so many of his by attacking SH's nat, but HIya had a much greater economic advantage (he was a full base ahead). All Hiya had to do was defend long enough to equal and eventually surpass SH's unit count, and the game was his. It's true SH had a couple of dropships, but such a large economic advantage allows you to build wraiths aplenty. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
But I guess I'm now confused about the point you are trying to make: On March 29 2009 11:59 food wrote: i hate the idea that skyhigh was preparing to snipe JD on RH3. Thats just insane thing to say, who the fuck "snipes" a player when its 0-3? On March 29 2009 13:52 food wrote: Obviously he was a "sniper" vs ANY given zerg in ANY WL match on RH3 when main CJ player was done. ? Also, latent makes some good points. In my original post, I was mentioning sKyHigh practicing for a month to play against JD or on RH3 as conjecture, simply to illustrate why JD might want to avoid a standard game by 5-pooling. Of course I don't think that the CJ coaches sat down with sKyHigh at the end of the WL regular season and said "OK, we're going to be down 0-3 to JD and RH3 will come up, you will be playing", but it is very possible that sKyHigh has been practicing for a month to play against JD, or simply on RH3 against a Zerg. CJ knew the map pool had certain Terran maps, and knew that they would send Iris on SCR - leaving RH3 for their next-best Terran, sKyHigh. They also knew that sKyHigh had success against JD in the past and that Hwaseung was by far their most likely Finals opponent. For all these reasons, although I didn't originally use the term "snipe", I think it would be applicable in this case. Why else would sKyHigh have been practicing a lot of TvZ on RH3? The only OZ Zerg who was going to appear in this match is JD. Ultimately, I think this is a pretty trivial disagreement...but it's hard not to pick an argument with someone who is making blatantly unreasonable claims about even a trivial matter. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
Uhh, iirc, a sniper is someone who takes out a certain guy, right? And there was no "snipe" in JWD's post. JWD's post is also valid. If you know that your opponent has played a lot of TvZ in this map and you're the Z, wouldn't you want to end the game quickly so your opponent won't have any chance to show you his tricks? Maybe JaeDong 5 pooled for that, maybe he wanted revenge. But what Jaedong failed to see was that SkyHigh was 5 pooled + sunken rushed before, in Collo 2 by HoeJJa. SkyHigh won that game. JaeDong was overtaken by emotion that's why he lost. And yeah, there's nothing much to argue about here Food since your argument against JWD is wrong. JWD didn't say snipe in his post so basically this argument should be done by now. And please, read the whole post carefully before jumping to conclusions and make yourself look stupid. | ||
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I_L_Jl
United States225 Posts
On March 29 2009 14:09 JWD wrote: food, please calm down. It's hard to read your posts when there's an f-bomb every sentence...not to mention I don't think you will make any friends by getting angry and cussing up a storm in here. But I guess I'm now confused about the point you are trying to make: ? Also, latent makes some good points. In my original post, I was mentioning sKyHigh practicing for a month to play against JD or on RH3 as conjecture, simply to illustrate why JD might want to avoid a standard game by 5-pooling. Of course I don't think that the CJ coaches sat down with sKyHigh at the end of the WL regular season and said "OK, we're going to be down 0-3 to JD and RH3 will come up, you will be playing", but it is very possible that sKyHigh has been practicing for a month to play against JD, or simply on RH3 against a Zerg. CJ knew the map pool had certain Terran maps, and knew that they would send Iris on SCR - leaving RH3 for their next-best Terran, sKyHigh. They also knew that sKyHigh had success against JD in the past and that Hwaseung was by far their most likely Finals opponent. For all these reasons, although I didn't originally use the term "snipe", I think it would be applicable in this case. Why else would sKyHigh have been practicing a lot of TvZ on RH3? The only OZ Zerg who was going to appear in this match is JD. Ultimately, I think this is a pretty trivial disagreement...but it's hard not to pick an argument with someone who is making blatantly unreasonable claims about even a trivial matter. Compeletly agree. I'm not so sure they expected OZ to win, but it's more than likley that he had been training specificly for zerg (especially after SK/KTF lost), and specficly on RH3, since he is probably the best vZ on CJ. | ||
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food
United States1951 Posts
On March 29 2009 14:09 JWD wrote: food, please calm down. It's hard to read your posts when there's an f-bomb every sentence...not to mention I don't think you will make any friends by getting angry and cussing up a storm in here. But I guess I'm now confused about the point you are trying to make: ? Also, latent makes some good points. In my original post, I was mentioning sKyHigh practicing for a month to play against JD or on RH3 as conjecture, simply to illustrate why JD might want to avoid a standard game by 5-pooling. Of course I don't think that the CJ coaches sat down with sKyHigh at the end of the WL regular season and said "OK, we're going to be down 0-3 to JD and RH3 will come up, you will be playing", but it is very possible that sKyHigh has been practicing for a month to play against JD, or simply on RH3 against a Zerg. CJ knew the map pool had certain Terran maps, and knew that they would send Iris on SCR - leaving RH3 for their next-best Terran, sKyHigh. They also knew that sKyHigh had success against JD in the past and that Hwaseung was by far their most likely Finals opponent. For all these reasons, although I didn't originally use the term "snipe", I think it would be applicable in this case. Why else would sKyHigh have been practicing a lot of TvZ on RH3? The only OZ Zerg who was going to appear in this match is JD. Ultimately, I think this is a pretty trivial disagreement...but it's hard not to pick an argument with someone who is making blatantly unreasonable claims about even a trivial matter. you should notice the " " around "snipes", considering context its often sarcasm. Skyhigh could be a sniper regular season when a zerg takes a random set and next map happens to be RH3. Sniper is someone dedicated to taking out a specific player( obviously a very good front tier player) likely on a specific map. Often times thats the only thing sniper is expected to do. When you down 0-3 you cant use a sniper, you use your best remaining player because no matter what he has to go 4-0. You dont call people like Hwasin or Mind sniper, they not there to snipe. If they dont win, who will? Typically sniper is a player that wouldnt be considered front tier in general. You could call skyhigh "sniper" if hes being used with this intent, but during finals he had a different task. Sniping JD alone was meaningless. On March 29 2009 14:36 Infinity.SkyLark wrote: Food, SkyHigh was even practicing to snipe Jaedong even before the playoffs. It was said by sAviOr(?) in an interview that they trained SkyHigh to specifically take out Jaedong. This was an interview after the WL match between CJ and Oz where SkyHigh floated his rax and build a bunker behind JaeDong's mineral line. Uhh, iirc, a sniper is someone who takes out a certain guy, right? And there was no "snipe" in JWD's post. JWD's post is also valid. If you know that your opponent has played a lot of TvZ in this map and you're the Z, wouldn't you want to end the game quickly so your opponent won't have any chance to show you his tricks? Maybe JaeDong 5 pooled for that, maybe he wanted revenge. But what Jaedong failed to see was that SkyHigh was 5 pooled + sunken rushed before, in Collo 2 by HoeJJa. SkyHigh won that game. JaeDong was overtaken by emotion that's why he lost. And yeah, there's nothing much to argue about here Food since your argument against JWD is wrong. JWD didn't say snipe in his post so basically this argument should be done by now. And please, read the whole post carefully before jumping to conclusions and make yourself look stupid. actually he defined "sniper" with his original post, he didnt have to use the word itself. And in response i answered to everyone calling the incident "sniping". The episode you mentioned had nothing to do with finals, it was a particular build on a given map, you just dont do it twice. He was practicing to "snipe" JD in previous match since he was used solely with this intent. I know its just semantics, but i am not in the wrong here ok? Ya i make myself look stupid, try to win the argument without provoking shitty response, its not easy for someone with your IQ. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On March 29 2009 14:40 food wrote: you should notice the " " around "snipes", considering context its often sarcasm. Skyhigh could be a sniper regular season when a zerg takes a random set and next map happens to be RH3. Sniper is someone dedicated to taking out a specific player( obviously a very good front tier player) likely on a specific map. Often times thats the only thing sniper is expected to do. When you down 0-3 you cant use a sniper, you use your best remaining player because no matter what he has to go 4-0. You dont call people like Hwasin or Mind sniper, they not there to snipe. If they dont win, who will? Typically sniper is a player that wouldnt be considered front tier in general. You could call skyhigh "sniper" if hes being used with this intent, but during finals he had a different task. Sniping JD alone was meaningless. lolwhat. | ||
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bias-
United States410 Posts
The marine push on JD, the very close call of pulling scvs on Young and going w/ just bikes and marines (thank god for scouting correctly), the BRILLIANT tank sacrifice/lure to get those bikes in, and finally the amazing dropship play and comeback (I think). All huge credits to skyhigh - he played a dynamic, intelligent game to turn situations (I think in EVERY GAME of this finals that he played) that were not in his favor around and win. I mean, imagine yourself: In the finals of the winners proleague, your team down 0-3, thought to be up against arguably the best all-around player in existence, there are no stats in your favor (other than a recent rax-float win against Jaedong who arguably mismicroed his drone pull counter), it's up to you to carry your team now, and you know no one expects you to win. and win. and win. and win with a calm, cool cat demeanor. I am officially in the skyhigh fanclub. | ||
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jodogohoo
Canada2533 Posts
On March 29 2009 14:00 latent wrote: The 5 pool was a great idea! JD wouldn't regret a BO that actually was about to work. He just screwed up by backing away from the all-in. Skyhigh's micro wasn't good enough, and he lost his first 2 marines to JD's first 6 lings. That right there should have been gg, if JD had reinforced his lings. Instead he started making more drones, expanded, didn't even build a sunken, and got ling speed. He screwed himself over, even after he was about to win it with a 5 pool. Anyone think that the lecaf head coach made jaedong throw the game. Coach:since your going to all kill if u don't throw the 4th game just 5pool and lose, so that the other players can get some exp and level up, don't worry there is no way that out of the entire lecaf team, only you can win a game.  Jaedong: Okay, np captainJaedong VS  sKyHighJaedong: k time to 5pool and loseJaedong: oh shit i might actually win, this kid fucking sucksJaedong: better fuck up or something![[image loading]](http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3360/jaedongqpr2.gif) + Show Spoiler + On March 23 2009 07:33 CDRdude wrote: You're full of shit, I know a stage when I see one. ![[image loading]](http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3623/picture2kip.png) ![[image loading]](http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7259/picture3n.png) You can't tell me that it isn't a stage. And you were playing the real life Rock Band challenge on a stage...do you think I'm an idiot? They even say "please leave the stage" at the end. We know what's really going on here. + Show Spoiler +  | ||
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food
United States1951 Posts
rofl oh my god selfowned | ||
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x89titan
Philippines1130 Posts
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
Have you even been following Hwasin's career? The guy began his career as a sniper, and he will always continue to be a zerg sniper. The guy's nickname is "Red Sniper", for god's sake. | ||
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EternaLEnVy
Canada513 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 29 2009 14:08 latent wrote: Even the Koreans doing the interview use the term "snipe" and "sniper" to describe SkyHigh (according to the translations at least). I also don't know why you think his answer doesn't indicate he was practicing specifically for the worst-case scenario of facing Jaedong on RH3. It seems pretty obvious to me that's what he's saying... Also, I'd like to point out to people praising SH for his win over Hiya... He was actually in troubled waters until Hiya screwed himself over by attacking SH's 3rd. SH had gained a distinct army advantage after Hiya sacrificed so many of his by attacking SH's nat, but HIya had a much greater economic advantage (he was a full base ahead). All Hiya had to do was defend long enough to equal and eventually surpass SH's unit count, and the game was his. It's true SH had a couple of dropships, but such a large economic advantage allows you to build wraiths aplenty. That NEVER works in TvT. | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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food
United States1951 Posts
On March 29 2009 15:11 koreasilver wrote: Have you even been following Hwasin's career? The guy began his career as a sniper, and he will always continue to be a zerg sniper. The guy's nickname is "Red Sniper", for god's sake. yea i mean why would i type oh my god if i didnt suddenly remember his nickname pretty comical indeed but i wouldnt be serious about it, i mean you not really calling him a "sniper" as in what we talking here about, are you? T_T | ||
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