EPT[WL] FINALS: CJ vs OZ - Page 132
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
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L0thar
987 Posts
JD use aggressive lings opening a lot. The 9-pool against Boxer, the 9-pool against Flash in his "14CC every game" era, the 5(or 4?)-pool against Hwasin in MSL semis...and probably much more, I don't remember every JD's game. He use aggressive builds often and to great advantage. Look what happened to Flash when he started playing standard every game. He got (and is getting still) cheesed or half-cheesed to death again and again (MSL semis against forGG, recent games against Leta anyone?). I've read the LR. Half of the people were shittting their pants typing "omg JD is genius","I love u <333" etc. when he went the 5-pool and now everybody tries to look that he knew it was bad idea from the beginning. Where were you at the start of the game? Where were you when he 4/5-pooled Hwasin? Or 9-pool Flash 14CC. Half of you were probably in awe of JD's genius mind games. I'm also sick of the excuses of JD's fans. JD didn't throw the game, nor he wanted to let his teammates play (lol). He did who he can do best - mix his play, be a little unpredictable. Of course in this game it was *probably* bad decision but how the hell should he knew it beforehand? You either play standard everytime and got figured out or you mix your play with the risk of today's failure. It REALLY pisses me off when I see JD's fans celebrating his genius play after he 5-pool somebody and win and then seeing shit like "CJ didn't beat JD, he beat himself with bad decision to go 5-pool". CJ/sKyHigh soundly beat JD today and in his own game too, admit it, no stupid excuses. | ||
Harem
United States11390 Posts
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deathgod6
United States5064 Posts
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eatmyshorts5
United States1530 Posts
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
I need to watch the vods now  | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On March 29 2009 06:59 eatmyshorts5 wrote: I still can't believe that Jaedong was able to micro 2 control groups of muta's. Thats just fucking amazing.... Jaedong has microed two groups of mutas separately before; I forget his opponent's name but it was on blue storm and Jaedong was bottom left. | ||
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berkguyyy
United States151 Posts
On March 29 2009 06:20 Cambium wrote: SkyHigh wasn't a sniper -_____-;; He was OZ's last hope, and guess what? he raped. Finally got to watch all of the games (slept after game 2). Game 1: Jaedong rode his 1 drone kill to victory. Nice scourge micro at the end, but I think he had a greater muta count anyway. Game 2: I thought Iris played a really great game actually. At one point, he killed Jaedong's entire group of Mutalisks, I thought he would have won for sure. I think the problem was that he wasn't aggressive enough (irony) and missed the tiny timing windows he had (there were two or three by my count). Jaedong really made mutas seem imba in this game. Iris's repsonse wasn't bad, just a few seconds off with the attacks. Game 3: I don't understand why zerg players never leave the OL in the other player's base anymore (afraid of getting killed by initial mutas?) Great play by Jaedong again. He knew he had the upperhand by being the better player. Game 4: Clutch game. Jaedong's choice to cheese was really unexpected, but logical and reasonable. His drone scout timing was "off" by maybe 1 - 2 seconds, but I don't know if that could be prevented given that he needed 150 minerals for six lings. It seemed that he wasn't sure what he wanted to do. He started producing drones after the first wave of lings. Had he continued with lings, perhaps it would have worked? SkyHigh had pretty decent reaction (not so much good micro) against the lings, and he's got the mentality right: all he had to do was fend off the lings to have an advantage. Timing was good afterwards. Also, if Jaedong sent scout towards seven, it might have worked too. Game 5: Ballsy move by SkyHigh, maybe he practised for that. Amazing reaction to FE on Col2. Game 6: D+ noob -_-;; I swear he made more mistakes than I would have (playing people against my level, obviously). The build was pretty terrible to begin with, and the lack of ob was just astounding. He lost so many stray goons to mines he shame even Rock. The tank lure was pure genius. Game 7: I don't exactly how or when he turned it round, but SkyHigh did it. It seemed that SkyHigh had a better understanding of the map than Hiya. Hiya's strategy primarily involved A-move towards the opposite main, whereas SkyHigh fully exploited the high grounds and the alternative routes. Hiya is potentially a better overall player, but I really don't think Oz planned for a game 7, whereas CJ definitely did. Eh... I'm not the best Starcraft player in the world, but I didn't see any timing windows in game 2 for Iris, much less 2 or 3. Even when Jaedong lost all those mutas, he still had a ton more built because he was already at 3 gas. And seriously, those marines were getting eaten alive even when there were a bajillion turrets in the base. Imagine what would've happened if those marines had left the base. If anything, the only thing I could fault Iris with is not getting vessels fast enough. But truth to tell, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Iris could've done. | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
On March 29 2009 07:02 ghostWriter wrote: Jaedong has microed two groups of mutas separately before; I forget his opponent's name but it was on blue storm and Jaedong was bottom left. Something tells me it was against Upmagic, but I'm not 100% sure. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 29 2009 07:16 adelarge wrote: Something tells me it was against Upmagic, but I'm not 100% sure. Yes, upmagic. Upmagic caught Jaedong completely off-guard with his 2 port wraith, but then JD got mutas and harrassed both the main and the nat to death at the same time. Pretty insane. | ||
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
And Iris could have won the game. He reacted well to Jaedong's muta all-in with his m&m and turret mass. His irradiate was slow because Jaedong killed the science facility before the upgrade could be researched. If Iris had kept his other two vessels alive, he would have had the game easily, despite being forced to lift off his natural command center. Irradiate means death to stacked muta and since Jaedong had 2 groups of them being controlled together, it would have taken more time to separate them out, time that Iris would have had to push down towards Jaedong's base and to gain more mana for more irradiates while killing mutas and weakening the rest. | ||
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berkguyyy
United States151 Posts
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
On March 29 2009 07:32 ghostWriter wrote: This wasn't an OSL, it was a winner league's final. And Iris could have won the game. He reacted well to Jaedong's muta all-in with his m&m and turret mass. His irradiate was slow because Jaedong killed the science facility before the upgrade could be researched. If Iris had kept his other two vessels alive, he would have had the game easily, despite being forced to lift off his natural command center. Irradiate means death to stacked muta and since Jaedong had 2 groups of them being controlled together, it would have taken more time to separate them out, time that Iris would have had to push down towards Jaedong's base and to gain more mana for more irradiates while killing mutas and weakening the rest. Understood...? Read the thread... | ||
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
On March 29 2009 07:32 ghostWriter wrote: This wasn't an OSL, it was a winner league's final. And Iris could have won the game. He reacted well to Jaedong's muta all-in with his m&m and turret mass. His irradiate was slow because Jaedong killed the science facility before the upgrade could be researched. If Iris had kept his other two vessels alive, he would have had the game easily, despite being forced to lift off his natural command center. Irradiate means death to stacked muta and since Jaedong had 2 groups of them being controlled together, it would have taken more time to separate them out, time that Iris would have had to push down towards Jaedong's base and to gain more mana for more irradiates while killing mutas and weakening the rest. Jaedong still would have had a huge economic lead, and if he sensed that at any point Iris was going to be able to fend off the mutas and push out, a quick tech switch would have ended it. Make no mistake - he was so far ahead by the time Iris had to lift his natural that it was over either way. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
Once irradiates go off and the mutas start all getting low health, Iris can just run around the map and take out all the expansions jaedong put up. Damaged mutas+lings wont really stop him, and a lurker transition would be far too late. So as I see it, that game was balanced on a razor's edge, and Jaedong did everything he could to delay the irradiate and weaken Iris' forces. So for me it was a really exciting game | ||
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
In general, I can't see a player that good losing when he's that far ahead on econ. Mutas seemed really imba in that game. However if he tries that build against fantasy he'll lose to fantasy's valkries lol. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17727 Posts
On March 29 2009 07:23 Shikyo wrote: Yes, upmagic. Upmagic caught Jaedong completely off-guard with his 2 port wraith, but then JD got mutas and harrassed both the main and the nat to death at the same time. Pretty insane. What he did in that game and what he did in this game is different. In the game vs upmagic he microed 1 group in up's main micro 1 group in up's nat. The game vs iris he actually microed 2 groups as 1. The only games i remember which come close is jaedong vs hwasin on othello and zero vs leta on othello. | ||
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