Stork has a templar's almost done, his natural is online and two cannons are guarding it. Yarnc adding a sunken colony to his natural and barely at 17 supply. He looks flustered and scared.
Hmm, trying to get daum sports to work but when I click the link I get redirected to: http://sportslive.media.daum.net/live_tiny/ipblock.html, which just shows a blank page, have they started blocking foreign IP's for Daum sports as well now? >.<
On February 11 2009 18:41 Phearlock wrote: Hmm, trying to get daum sports to work but when I click the link I get redirected to: http://sportslive.media.daum.net/live_tiny/ipblock.html, which just shows a blank page, have they started blocking foreign IP's for Daum sports as well now? >.<
This happens to me as well. And YaoYuan is lagging like crazy for me. D:
Stork still adding units for the push, Yarnc mainly has hydras to defend. Several temps in Stork's army, probably with STorm already. 85 vs. 43 supply, but Yarnc is adding drones too, so his economy is recovering.
Yarnc attempts a cannon break at the nat but doesn't have enough forces and backs off. He picks off the DT roaming around the middle of the map. Stork has 4 High Templar chilling and building up energy, Storms are going to destroy Yarnc whenever the big battle comes.
On February 11 2009 18:41 intotherainx wrote: does anyone else have a VLC stream that turns on for 1/4 a second and then stops playing every time you enter the network?
Wow, Stork going 1 base tech two games in a row. Really trying to take advantage of zerg being so greedy early game. And both times it really paid off well.
On February 11 2009 18:49 Rucky wrote: Actually since FE became the standard and zergs are getting SO comfortable with it, I can say that P are not able to win WITH FE anymore.
It's not that P are not able to win with FE, it's that they need to vary it up so they can be versatile in a variety of gamestyles, particularly on maps with exposed nats.
On February 11 2009 18:49 Rucky wrote: Actually since FE became the standard and zergs are getting SO comfortable with it, I can say that P are not able to win WITH FE anymore.
Really FE is a problem mainly for Stork, who seems to have very bad game sense in terms of how many cannons to put up, stopping ling run-by/all-ins, etc. So one base tech suits his playstyle better.
On February 11 2009 18:49 Rucky wrote: Actually since FE became the standard and zergs are getting SO comfortable with it, I can say that P are not able to win WITH FE anymore.
Really FE is a problem mainly for Stork, who seems to have very bad game sense in terms of how many cannons to put up, stopping ling run-by/all-ins, etc. So one base tech suits his playstyle better.
I like it, personally.
This kind of build suit him better actually. His strength is at zealot micro instead of probe micro. It cause alot of problems
I'm just letting people know that 1 base protoss is still very strong and to not think of it any less.
"OMG you lost to 1 base protoss, you chobo" That kinda talk is what makes me say I'd choose 1 base over FE anyday. A lot of zergs practice against FE and have no problem playing 3 base zerg to 2 base protoss EZ mode. But i'm sure all those zergs would probably lose to old school 1 base protoss. People don't understand how fast protoss can tech and produce an army at the same time with 1 base. They can pressure and keep zerg on 2 bases and then when they take their natural, zerg still does not have the army and tech to match and are stuck with 2 bases.
Lings go chase the probe and hero just added another hatch to top left. Tester getting gate and 2nd cannon. Gas for hero now, scouting probe killed before it can reach top left. But still he might know.
hero also walled off his natural with lurkers and evochambers. Sneaking a lurker towards the natural expansion, but it gets a storm thrown on his head and dies.
But hero in really good shape now. Robotics for Tester. Hive for hero.
This game is Hero's to win. Tester really has no balls in PvZ, loses his dt without any kills, and he's just letting Hero macro and tech off of 3 bases. Huge battle in the middle, Tester loses most of his army.
On February 11 2009 19:03 Manifesto7 wrote: show the games, not these newbie fucking signs OGN. NO ONE CARES.
Pool first for hero, probe is gonna bug the expo drone.
I hate how they also always give a shot of the players' faces just as there's an important battle going on. We're interested in the game, not the progamers' facial expressions!
On February 11 2009 19:03 Manifesto7 wrote: show the games, not these newbie fucking signs OGN. NO ONE CARES.
Pool first for hero, probe is gonna bug the expo drone.
I hate how they also always give a shot of the players' faces just as there's an important battle going on. We're interested in the game, not the progamers' facial expressions!
On February 11 2009 19:15 Balfazar wrote: Beast? Tester handed him the game wrapped in a ribbon. Why the fuck do you go DT tech and then not even try to use it.
Looks like Tester was trying to scout with the dt, and he just saw an overlord and hydras at the nat. Completely missed the fact that there was another base at 10 oclock that he could've abused. Also, losing 2 hts early in the game certainly didn't help.
On February 11 2009 19:03 Manifesto7 wrote: show the games, not these newbie fucking signs OGN. NO ONE CARES.
Pool first for hero, probe is gonna bug the expo drone.
I hate how they also always give a shot of the players' faces just as there's an important battle going on. We're interested in the game, not the progamers' facial expressions!
personally i find it hilarious when best loses his shuttles and he has that 'im fucked' face other awesome people are free, firebathero, savior when he faces firebathero, rock, and a little bit of stork
On February 11 2009 19:03 Manifesto7 wrote: show the games, not these newbie fucking signs OGN. NO ONE CARES.
Pool first for hero, probe is gonna bug the expo drone.
I hate how they also always give a shot of the players' faces just as there's an important battle going on. We're interested in the game, not the progamers' facial expressions!
personally i find it hilarious when best loses his shuttles and he has that 'im fucked' face other awesome people are free, firebathero, savior when he faces firebathero, rock, and a little bit of stork
STORK FACE IS AWESOME dont mind seeing it at all lolol
On February 11 2009 19:18 intotherainx wrote: personally i find it hilarious when best loses his shuttles and he has that 'im fucked' face other awesome people are free, firebathero, savior when he faces firebathero, rock, and a little bit of stork
in korea, whenever a protoss player loses their shuttle everyone says
Commentator OH NO A DOHTTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i agree, i love the facial expressions when they are getting fked.. its hilarious and we all know on iccup, when we've lost to something stupid we do similar faces XD
To advance, Tester needs to have Fantasy beat Leta, Fantasy beat hero, he beats Leta, and then wins the tiebreaker. So...possible, but highly, highly unlikely.
On February 11 2009 19:03 Manifesto7 wrote: show the games, not these newbie fucking signs OGN. NO ONE CARES.
Pool first for hero, probe is gonna bug the expo drone.
I hate how they also always give a shot of the players' faces just as there's an important battle going on. We're interested in the game, not the progamers' facial expressions!
that drives me absolutely nuts too!!!
While we're gamers (most of us) and want to see the game, Koreans enjoy cheering on for their favorite gamers. Closing in on the player's faces is like showing the psychological battle that's going on, not just the map and units themselves. It's what gives Starcraft such eminence in Korea and elevates it past beyond just a computer game, but a "sport."
I personally like it, you don't lose that much intel anyways. Be patient, they almost always show the tech and major battles.
On February 11 2009 19:21 intotherainx wrote: midas is great too you can see the dents that each loss has on midas' self-esteem until he is a nervous pile of shit stuttering about doing a ceremony
On February 11 2009 19:21 intotherainx wrote: midas is great too you can see the dents that each loss has on midas' self-esteem until he is a nervous pile of shit stuttering about doing a ceremony
On February 11 2009 19:03 Manifesto7 wrote: show the games, not these newbie fucking signs OGN. NO ONE CARES.
Pool first for hero, probe is gonna bug the expo drone.
I hate how they also always give a shot of the players' faces just as there's an important battle going on. We're interested in the game, not the progamers' facial expressions!
that drives me absolutely nuts too!!!
While we're gamers (most of us) and want to see the game, Koreans enjoy cheering on for their favorite gamers. Closing in on the player's faces is like showing the psychological battle that's going on, not just the map and units themselves. It's what gives Starcraft such eminence in Korea and elevates it past beyond just a computer game, but a "sport."
I personally like it, you don't lose that much intel anyways. Be patient, they almost always show the tech and major battles.
Agreed. I like it when they show the facial expressions of players. It gives more depth to the game, instead of just showing the observer screen you get a look at the feeling of the person behind the controls. I mean, without it its like watching 2 programmed ai's playing sc, there is no realism involved at all.
On February 11 2009 19:23 Xstatic wrote: Flash's eyebrow never ceases to amuse me.
LOL I was referring to his characteristic twitch, but this is just fucking hilarious. Must've gotten manhandled by someone, or one too many games that day.
Man I never knew Best had so many fangirls. The man's got style!
On February 11 2009 19:03 Manifesto7 wrote: show the games, not these newbie fucking signs OGN. NO ONE CARES.
Pool first for hero, probe is gonna bug the expo drone.
I hate how they also always give a shot of the players' faces just as there's an important battle going on. We're interested in the game, not the progamers' facial expressions!
that drives me absolutely nuts too!!!
While we're gamers (most of us) and want to see the game, Koreans enjoy cheering on for their favorite gamers. Closing in on the player's faces is like showing the psychological battle that's going on, not just the map and units themselves. It's what gives Starcraft such eminence in Korea and elevates it past beyond just a computer game, but a "sport."
I personally like it, you don't lose that much intel anyways. Be patient, they almost always show the tech and major battles.
Agreed. I like it when they show the facial expressions of players. It gives more depth to the game, instead of just showing the observer screen you get a look at the feeling of the person behind the controls. I mean, without it its like watching 2 programmed ai's playing sc, there is no realism involved at all.
In a way, this is why I never like expressionless players like Jaedong. How can you look like a zombie win or lose? It's like they're trained much they've become numb to the fact that they're actually kids.
Edit: Predicting 2 fac vs 12 Nex in the next game.
I hope Up wins here for two reasons. One, he is pretty awesome. Two, in this case, if (when) Savior beats Up, it'll be more indicative of Savior's return.
On February 11 2009 19:03 Manifesto7 wrote: show the games, not these newbie fucking signs OGN. NO ONE CARES.
Pool first for hero, probe is gonna bug the expo drone.
I hate how they also always give a shot of the players' faces just as there's an important battle going on. We're interested in the game, not the progamers' facial expressions!
that drives me absolutely nuts too!!!
While we're gamers (most of us) and want to see the game, Koreans enjoy cheering on for their favorite gamers. Closing in on the player's faces is like showing the psychological battle that's going on, not just the map and units themselves. It's what gives Starcraft such eminence in Korea and elevates it past beyond just a computer game, but a "sport."
I personally like it, you don't lose that much intel anyways. Be patient, they almost always show the tech and major battles.
Agreed. I like it when they show the facial expressions of players. It gives more depth to the game, instead of just showing the observer screen you get a look at the feeling of the person behind the controls. I mean, without it its like watching 2 programmed ai's playing sc, there is no realism involved at all.
In a way, this is why I never like expressionless players like Jaedong. How can you look like a zombie win or lose? It's like they're trained much they've become numb to the fact that they're actually kids.
expressionless? what about the >: ( look? i love jaedong's "i am going to reach through my monitor and crush his head" expression
On February 11 2009 19:03 Manifesto7 wrote: show the games, not these newbie fucking signs OGN. NO ONE CARES.
Pool first for hero, probe is gonna bug the expo drone.
I hate how they also always give a shot of the players' faces just as there's an important battle going on. We're interested in the game, not the progamers' facial expressions!
that drives me absolutely nuts too!!!
While we're gamers (most of us) and want to see the game, Koreans enjoy cheering on for their favorite gamers. Closing in on the player's faces is like showing the psychological battle that's going on, not just the map and units themselves. It's what gives Starcraft such eminence in Korea and elevates it past beyond just a computer game, but a "sport."
I personally like it, you don't lose that much intel anyways. Be patient, they almost always show the tech and major battles.
Agreed. I like it when they show the facial expressions of players. It gives more depth to the game, instead of just showing the observer screen you get a look at the feeling of the person behind the controls. I mean, without it its like watching 2 programmed ai's playing sc, there is no realism involved at all.
In a way, this is why I never like expressionless players like Jaedong. How can you look like a zombie win or lose? It's like they're trained much they've become numb to the fact that they're actually kids.
JD gives small expressions here and there, its very rare to see. But being expressionless does add to his badass factor a lot.
On February 11 2009 19:32 IdrA wrote: jaedong isnt expressionless, hes awesome. he always looks like he would rip his opponent limb from limb if he could get into his booth.
Hence the problem. He ALWAYS look like that. Being so intense 24/7 is not good for your health.
On February 11 2009 19:32 IdrA wrote: jaedong isnt expressionless, hes awesome. he always looks like he would rip his opponent limb from limb if he could get into his booth.
Hence the problem. He ALWAYS look like that. Being so intense 24/7 is not good for your health.
nevermind not bbs only 1 barracks in bests natural and the 2nd scv is building a depot. bottom right.
upmagic starting a bunker at bests choke, best scouts it and pulls probes. bunker will finish.. but its not in range of anything. starts another bunker, zealot out
marine and an scv die, 2nd bunker almost done.. it still wont be in range of anything though. 2nd scv dies. 3rd dies, bunker unfinished. sending another scv from his main, bunker wont be up anytime soon and a goon is out. up is pretty much fucked
that was a terrible build. 1 barrack wouldnt even be a sure fire win vs double nexus. 1 barrack marines can die to probes. and it was pretty much free loss vs anything else.
In case there are still some ppl looking for stream, here is a new one: http://www.playsc.com/live/ click ogn: PS1(TvAnts) at bottom-left corner. Again, this stream uses TvAnts. It works for me smoothly without problem.
On February 11 2009 19:49 dzbbc163 wrote: In case there are still some ppl looking for stream, here is a new one: http://www.playsc.com/live/ click ogn: PS1(TvAnts) at bottom-left corner. Again, this stream uses TvAnts. It works for me smoothly without problem.
Eh, there have been enough Terran imba maps that I can't get too worked up about it. Obviously the ideal is to have all maps be perfectly balanced, but I think you have to accept bad maps slipping in here and there.
On February 11 2009 19:49 dzbbc163 wrote: In case there are still some ppl looking for stream, here is a new one: http://www.playsc.com/live/ click ogn: PS1(TvAnts) at bottom-left corner. Again, this stream uses TvAnts. It works for me smoothly without problem.
- You have a Starleague game today ▲ Honestly, I couldn't practice at all and I am very worried. However there was no other choice, there is so little time to practice now. But the map does favor zerg so I think I can do it.
On February 11 2009 19:55 Baddieko wrote: most of the maps created for OSL tries to be fair. But players create strategies making them imba.
I don't really think Plasma and this dark swarm map which i forgotten were fair =/.
Persona.
OGN/OMAT is known for being out of the box and attempting to introduce maps which change the dynamic of the Starcraft game (815, Peaks, Fantasy, Plasma etc). Subsequently, MBC is pretty much the opposite, sticking to the basis of solid, boring macro maps (Rush Hour, Byzantium, Carthage etc.).
Unfortunately OGN produce a good map every three bad maps. If I'm correct, the last 'out of the box' map used for more than a season was Fantasy.
On February 11 2009 19:55 Baddieko wrote: most of the maps created for OSL tries to be fair. But players create strategies making them imba.
I don't really think Plasma and this dark swarm map which i forgotten were fair =/.
Persona.
OGN/OMAT is known for being out of the box and attempting to introduce maps which change the dynamic of the Starcraft game (815, Peaks, Fantasy, Plasma etc). Subsequently, MBC is pretty much the opposite, sticking to the basis of solid, boring macro maps (Rush Hour, Byzantium, Carthage etc.).
On February 11 2009 20:08 QuickStriker wrote: hahahaha yes yes yes!!!!!!! I so called all the possible wins today in this OSL!!!! Liquibet 4/4 BABY!!!!!! GO STORK/BY.HERO/BEST/JAEDONG!!!!!!!!!!!
On February 11 2009 20:10 disciple wrote: yeah how awesome winning a ZvP on map that is 11-2 in this MU...jeez
omg, I`ve NEVER seen a bigger hater than u, haha
well its time for toss to cry about map imbalance... Tears in the moon (11-2 zvp) Destination (16-4 zvp in the last 20 games)
I remember when every zerg said that Destination and Medusa were P>>>Z because "it is too hard to take a third base." I wonder were they went, I don't hear so much from them now...
On February 11 2009 20:10 disciple wrote: yeah how awesome winning a ZvP on map that is 11-2 in this MU...jeez
omg, I`ve NEVER seen a bigger hater than u, haha
well its time for toss to cry about map imbalance... Tears in the moon (11-2 zvp) Destination (16-4 zvp in the last 20 games)
I remember when every zerg said that Destination and Medusa were P>>>Z because "it is too hard to take a third base." I wonder were they went, I don't hear so much from them now...
oov build made zergs shift focus to terran.
Destination and medusa is hard for terran when they go bionic.
On February 11 2009 20:10 disciple wrote: yeah how awesome winning a ZvP on map that is 11-2 in this MU...jeez
omg, I`ve NEVER seen a bigger hater than u, haha
well its time for toss to cry about map imbalance... Tears in the moon (11-2 zvp) Destination (16-4 zvp in the last 20 games)
I remember when every zerg said that Destination and Medusa were P>>>Z because "it is too hard to take a third base." I wonder were they went, I don't hear so much from them now...
I'm sorry, but neither Destination nor Medusa were anywhere close to the imba PvZ that Tears is, even at the beginning when protoss were dominating.
The problem with Tears is that the protoss cannot hold its natural expansion against the zerg w/o gazillion cannons. Low ground + natural placement(horrible for sim city) + wide entrance + 2nd entrance makes the protoss almost having to go 1-base tech. And as a zerg as long as you play safe one-base protoss just can't handle 2 base zerg.
This is almost like the Byzantium map for zerg, where you're forced to go with cheesy 2-hatch muta or something and the protoss can just mass cannons FTW.
tbh I've expected Destination to be zvp imba, but toss was doing ok for a long period of time. I got the same feeling about fantasy II, because both maps are similar imo with zerg having the chance to contain the toss pretty easy with lurks abusing the bridges, not to mention the distance to the 3rd gas...but fantasy II is a 4player large map which prevented the zerg from gaining easy map control, but this was not the case with Destination...ofc this doesnt make the map unplayable in pvz. Tears in the moon on the hand...meh
T_T looks like awful game quality. At least BeSt won...what the hell was that from Up? I suppose he was counting on BeSt going for a FE, but even one rax may not have been enough to stop it - especially when he placed that bunker so freaking far from BeSt's buildings.
Loved the counter-cheese though BeSt was smart to put the forge on the cliff.
On February 11 2009 20:10 disciple wrote: yeah how awesome winning a ZvP on map that is 11-2 in this MU...jeez
omg, I`ve NEVER seen a bigger hater than u, haha
well its time for toss to cry about map imbalance... Tears in the moon (11-2 zvp) Destination (16-4 zvp in the last 20 games)
I remember when every zerg said that Destination and Medusa were P>>>Z because "it is too hard to take a third base." I wonder were they went, I don't hear so much from them now...
I'm sorry, but neither Destination nor Medusa were anywhere close to the imba PvZ that Tears is, even at the beginning when protoss were dominating.
The problem with Tears is that the protoss cannot hold its natural expansion against the zerg w/o gazillion cannons. Low ground + natural placement(horrible for sim city) + wide entrance + 2nd entrance makes the protoss almost having to go 1-base tech. And as a zerg as long as you play safe one-base protoss just can't handle 2 base zerg.
This is almost like the Byzantium map for zerg, where you're forced to go with cheesy 2-hatch muta or something and the protoss can just mass cannons FTW.
toss needs to adapt to the map, just as how zerg was forced to adapt to destination and the entire zvp matchup. zergs getting raped by zealot/archon or sair reaver? they switched away form hive tech and used mass hydras.
likewise, toss needs to find another way to hold their expansion without cannons. that much of an investment in static defense is just retarded regardless of race: if zerg built 5 to 6 sunkens the moment their expansion hatch was finished, how much shit would we be talking about zerg's wasting minerals? or if terran built 3 bunkers before their FE command was finished?
and yeah, you can flame me because i'm not coming up with a solution myself and am just pointing out the idiocy of the status quo. (whatever; even if i came up with something, you wouldnt follow it till a pro pulled it off successively anyway.) the current forge cannons FE toss build IS retarded in pvz, mostly because it allows zerg to dictate the flow of the game early on and toss is forced to play passive/reactionary.
On February 12 2009 03:37 d_so wrote: likewise, toss needs to find another way to hold their expansion without cannons. that much of an investment in static defense is just retarded regardless of race: if zerg built 5 to 6 sunkens the moment their expansion hatch was finished, how much shit would we be talking about zerg's wasting minerals? or if terran built 3 bunkers before their FE command was finished?
and yeah, you can flame me because i'm not coming up with a solution myself and am just pointing out the idiocy of the status quo. (whatever; even if i came up with something, you wouldnt follow it till a pro pulled it off successively anyway.) the current forge cannons FE toss build IS retarded in pvz, mostly because it allows zerg to dictate the flow of the game early on and toss is forced to play passive/reactionary.
Terrans build a crazy amount of turrets to defend muta harass. Since m&m doesn't get raped by ling/hydra, T can hold their front line against Z. P doesn't have that luxury. P army cannot stand against a Z army until there are heavy gas units involved, and to get a critical mass of those, P needs the second base early. Hence forge FE. It works on almost every map. (including Destination, which I don't think is imba ZvP)
If you think forge FE is retarded in pvz in general, then you don't understand pvz.
2base zerg has a stronger economy than 1base toss lings > zeals hydras > goons (unlike the tanks/zeals/vultz/goons dynamic, lings will also beat goons and microed hydras will beat zeals)
With the exception of a map like Neo Requiem, P needs 2 base to play anything but an allin timing attack/tech rush against Z.
I think Protoss will get used to Tears of the Moon after awhile. Very few maps stay this one sided after a lot of games are played on it..... I hope.....
And yes, Stork won! Now Stork's OSL life depends on whether he can beat July....
On February 12 2009 03:37 d_so wrote: likewise, toss needs to find another way to hold their expansion without cannons. that much of an investment in static defense is just retarded regardless of race: if zerg built 5 to 6 sunkens the moment their expansion hatch was finished, how much shit would we be talking about zerg's wasting minerals? or if terran built 3 bunkers before their FE command was finished?
and yeah, you can flame me because i'm not coming up with a solution myself and am just pointing out the idiocy of the status quo. (whatever; even if i came up with something, you wouldnt follow it till a pro pulled it off successively anyway.) the current forge cannons FE toss build IS retarded in pvz, mostly because it allows zerg to dictate the flow of the game early on and toss is forced to play passive/reactionary.
Terrans build a crazy amount of turrets to defend muta harass. Since m&m doesn't get raped by ling/hydra, T can hold their front line against Z. P doesn't have that luxury. P army cannot stand against a Z army until there are heavy gas units involved, and to get a critical mass of those, P needs the second base early. Hence forge FE. It works on almost every map. (including Destination, which I don't think is imba ZvP)
If you think forge FE is retarded in pvz in general, then you don't understand pvz.
2base zerg has a stronger economy than 1base toss lings > zeals hydras > goons (unlike the tanks/zeals/vultz/goons dynamic, lings will also beat goons and microed hydras will beat zeals)
With the exception of a map like Neo Requiem, P needs 2 base to play anything but an allin timing attack/tech rush against Z.
look, i'm not talking about static defense that is eventually built. through the course of the game, even relatively early in the game, all three races start to invest more in static defense. TvZ, T turrets, Z sunkens, PvZ, P cannons, Z sunkens. But the issue is when. Toss wants to be in a situation where they only have to build 2 cannons within the two-three minute window after their nexus. But because they allow zerg to dictate the pace, they're forced to build excessive cannons if they cannot keep their scouting probe alive.
Why are excessive cannons early on in the game bad?
1.) The more cannons you have, the less units you have. which means toss has to play defensively until they can get sair reaver 2.) The more cannons you have, the less money you have. obvious, yes. but if we're gonna bust a nut over zerg getting forced to build x amount of sunkens, we have to acknowledge the steep nominal photon cannons and the effect it has on the economy (and yeah, it's worse for zergs since they lose the worker. but the mineral cost is the same). A toss building 5! cannons with his nexus (kal vs luxury, msl), is akin to a zerg building 4 sunkens as soon as his hatchery is finished.
for a case example, let's look at the example of the "Six Dragons" vs Luxury.
on Friday, January the 16th, Luxury plays in the OSL Group J. He unveils a series of "cheesy", aggressive strats, much to the chagrin of the fans here.
However, on the very next day in Winner's League, KTF vs Samsung Kahn, the"Dragons" of Khan react to Luxury's aggressive play from the day prior. Jangbi builds 3 cannons with his nexus, Stork tries to get away with just two but lets zerglings into his base. a few days later on KTF vs SKT, Luxury 5 pools bisu. a few days later, in his MSL Group, Kal builds 5 cannons with his nexus.
in each of these games, toss either spends too much money on static defense or pays the consequence of not having enough and pays with probes (another example of this is bisu savior at msl). This forces toss to play extremely passive until they get their sair reavers. at this point of the game, protoss's chance of winning is hugely dependent on how successful the reaver drops are. if unsuccessful, or if they lose their sairs, then hydras + muta snipes > Toss.
this is why i say protoss needs something new: in Protoss FE, they have two choices regarding cannons:
1.) Build few 2.) Build too much.
against a good zerg, BOTH options are losing options. build too few you lose probes. build too much you spend too much and you're stuck in your base and zerg can contain you/expand all over the map.
On February 12 2009 05:22 Titusmaster6 wrote: Interesting, everyone who won last week, lost this week. Well, except for Tester, but he just sucks I guess.
On February 12 2009 06:10 DreaM)XeRO wrote: ahhh...that is depressing for Stork.. He went 0-2 in his group...most likely it's him whose gonna drop out Yarnc with the sexyy sexyy 2-0 in his group
July vs Bisu will determine the fate of this group but..Bisu is playing July on ToTM...Very Z > P should be interesting
On February 12 2009 05:22 Titusmaster6 wrote: Interesting, everyone who won last week, lost this week. Well, except for Tester, but he just sucks I guess.
I guess this put Jaedong in a pretty good position to make it into Ro8. His next match on the OSL is GGPlay, correct? If so, then he will probably 3-0. Quite the stark contrast with the mind-blowingly difficult MSL group of death (F) he was put in. Also, I can barely wait for Bisu vs July. Should be pretty good.
On February 12 2009 06:10 DreaM)XeRO wrote: ahhh...that is depressing for Stork.. He went 0-2 in his group...most likely it's him whose gonna drop out Yarnc with the sexyy sexyy 2-0 in his group
July vs Bisu will determine the fate of this group but..Bisu is playing July on ToTM...Very Z > P should be interesting
Eh? Stork didn't go 0-2, he went 1-1.
?? He lost to bisu on medusa and just lost to yarnc
On February 12 2009 06:10 DreaM)XeRO wrote: ahhh...that is depressing for Stork.. He went 0-2 in his group...most likely it's him whose gonna drop out Yarnc with the sexyy sexyy 2-0 in his group
July vs Bisu will determine the fate of this group but..Bisu is playing July on ToTM...Very Z > P should be interesting
Eh? Stork didn't go 0-2, he went 1-1.
?? He lost to bisu on medusa and just lost to yarnc
On February 12 2009 06:10 DreaM)XeRO wrote: ahhh...that is depressing for Stork.. He went 0-2 in his group...most likely it's him whose gonna drop out Yarnc with the sexyy sexyy 2-0 in his group
July vs Bisu will determine the fate of this group but..Bisu is playing July on ToTM...Very Z > P should be interesting
Eh? Stork didn't go 0-2, he went 1-1.
?? He lost to bisu on medusa and just lost to yarnc
On February 12 2009 06:10 DreaM)XeRO wrote: ahhh...that is depressing for Stork.. He went 0-2 in his group...most likely it's him whose gonna drop out Yarnc with the sexyy sexyy 2-0 in his group
July vs Bisu will determine the fate of this group but..Bisu is playing July on ToTM...Very Z > P should be interesting
Eh? Stork didn't go 0-2, he went 1-1.
?? He lost to bisu on medusa and just lost to yarnc
Stork won, he beat yarnc.
Should be an interesting next round > Can't wait to see it!
On February 12 2009 06:10 DreaM)XeRO wrote: July vs Bisu will determine the fate of this group but..Bisu is playing July on ToTM...Very Z > P should be interesting
Especially since Bisu mentioned a secret strat he prepared at the start of the OSL (don't recall exact wording). If it's one time he'll have to show that off it is now. Of course, if he's not bluffing.
On February 12 2009 06:10 DreaM)XeRO wrote: ahhh...that is depressing for Stork.. He went 0-2 in his group...most likely it's him whose gonna drop out Yarnc with the sexyy sexyy 2-0 in his group
July vs Bisu will determine the fate of this group but..Bisu is playing July on ToTM...Very Z > P should be interesting
Actually July vs Bisu is on return of the king, which is balanced zvp.
On February 12 2009 06:10 DreaM)XeRO wrote: ahhh...that is depressing for Stork.. He went 0-2 in his group...most likely it's him whose gonna drop out Yarnc with the sexyy sexyy 2-0 in his group
July vs Bisu will determine the fate of this group but..Bisu is playing July on ToTM...Very Z > P should be interesting
Actually July vs Bisu is on return of the king, which is balanced zvp.
On February 12 2009 06:10 DreaM)XeRO wrote: ahhh...that is depressing for Stork.. He went 0-2 in his group...most likely it's him whose gonna drop out Yarnc with the sexyy sexyy 2-0 in his group
July vs Bisu will determine the fate of this group but..Bisu is playing July on ToTM...Very Z > P should be interesting
Eh? Stork didn't go 0-2, he went 1-1.
?? He lost to bisu on medusa and just lost to yarnc
On February 11 2009 20:10 disciple wrote: yeah how awesome winning a ZvP on map that is 11-2 in this MU...jeez
Well it makes up for all the others then doesnt it.
Edit: to extend my post a bit here, shouldn't Kal not have attacked with the goons/zealots? it did not achieve anything. Then he would have been able to defend.
2 entrances to the nat cant be that big of a problem can it?
On February 11 2009 20:10 disciple wrote: yeah how awesome winning a ZvP on map that is 11-2 in this MU...jeez
omg, I`ve NEVER seen a bigger hater than u, haha
well its time for toss to cry about map imbalance... Tears in the moon (11-2 zvp) Destination (16-4 zvp in the last 20 games)
I remember when every zerg said that Destination and Medusa were P>>>Z because "it is too hard to take a third base." I wonder were they went, I don't hear so much from them now...
I'm sorry, but neither Destination nor Medusa were anywhere close to the imba PvZ that Tears is, even at the beginning when protoss were dominating.
The problem with Tears is that the protoss cannot hold its natural expansion against the zerg w/o gazillion cannons. Low ground + natural placement(horrible for sim city) + wide entrance + 2nd entrance makes the protoss almost having to go 1-base tech. And as a zerg as long as you play safe one-base protoss just can't handle 2 base zerg.
This is almost like the Byzantium map for zerg, where you're forced to go with cheesy 2-hatch muta or something and the protoss can just mass cannons FTW.
toss needs to adapt to the map, just as how zerg was forced to adapt to destination and the entire zvp matchup. zergs getting raped by zealot/archon or sair reaver? they switched away form hive tech and used mass hydras.
likewise, toss needs to find another way to hold their expansion without cannons. that much of an investment in static defense is just retarded regardless of race: if zerg built 5 to 6 sunkens the moment their expansion hatch was finished, how much shit would we be talking about zerg's wasting minerals? or if terran built 3 bunkers before their FE command was finished?
and yeah, you can flame me because i'm not coming up with a solution myself and am just pointing out the idiocy of the status quo. (whatever; even if i came up with something, you wouldnt follow it till a pro pulled it off successively anyway.) the current forge cannons FE toss build IS retarded in pvz, mostly because it allows zerg to dictate the flow of the game early on and toss is forced to play passive/reactionary.
Who was talking about FE? I was saying the natural is VERY hard to hold. Just because a protoss don't FE doesn't mean a protoss won't ever expand. And when protoss expands, the zerg will simply go in for the kill. End of story.
OSL is making protoss pay for 3 SL dominations in a row.
They need to make some map where Z>T just as much as totm is Z>P if it's even possible to make such map and get rid of totm. ZvT is not balanced right now, it was never balanced, but there were better times, better maps.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.zxk3.com/stuff/TLFE/batoonew.jpg)
YellOw[ArnC] < Return of the King > (P)
Stork
UpMagiC
![[image loading]](/staff/MrHoon/APM.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/MrHoon/lol.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i37.tinypic.com/21oy1hk.png)
Can't wait to see it!
