[WL] Lecaf vs eSTRO - Page 25

On January 20 2009 04:31 Frits wrote:
All-in games are not meaningless lol. Nowadays the word all-in is used as some kind of justification for making a bad judgement call. Also you have to remember that Upmagic games are destined to be unorthodox and on top of that nowadays people call everything that isn't standard all-in.

Hell people even called savior making a few lings against bisu all-in, if it works the player gets massive credit and if it fails it was meaningless.

And I see that you guys are both lecaf fans, surprise surprise.

On January 20 2009 04:31 Frits wrote:
All-in games are not meaningless lol. Nowadays the word all-in is used as some kind of justification for making a bad judgement call. Also you have to remember that Upmagic games are destined to be unorthodox and on top of that nowadays people call everything that isn't standard all-in.

Hell people even called savior making a few lings against bisu all-in, if it works the player gets massive credit and if it fails it was meaningless.

And I see that you guys are both lecaf fans, surprise surprise.

On January 20 2009 03:54 Malinor wrote:
I agree, but so does this one. In JDs loss he just committed suicide. Todays game Up prepared for lurkers and fucked up his ebay-timing badly. Both games are really useless to draw any conclusions from in my opinion. Maybe except the fact that 3hatch-play is quite possible against mech.

On January 20 2009 04:31 Frits wrote:
All-in games are not meaningless lol. Nowadays the word all-in is used as some kind of justification for making a bad judgement call. Also you have to remember that Upmagic games are destined to be unorthodox and on top of that nowadays people call everything that isn't standard all-in.

Hell people even called savior making a few lings against bisu all-in, if it works the player gets massive credit and if it fails it was meaningless.

And I see that you guys are both lecaf fans, surprise surprise.

On January 20 2009 05:05 Frits wrote:
Using all-in as a defense for a player losing is not unbiased. Saying you can't draw any conclusions from all-in games is just plain ignorant.

And your question doesn't even make sense, starcraft isn't 100% determined by ability. If you go back you can see that Im saying that people underestimate the chances of Upmagic beating JD, not determining who's the better player.

Also you're not helping your case by being a lecaf fan lol.

On January 20 2009 05:17 Avidkeystamper wrote:

So, once again, what helpful conclusions can you draw about the player's abilities from those games? Please answer the question this time. I can't seem to find any (serious, not trying to mock you.)

On January 20 2009 05:37 Frits wrote:
That Upmagic stands a pretty good chance against JD, especially when he goes mech because JD doesn't seem to be handling it too well or takes too many risks against it. This has been my point all along, why are you trying to bring ability into the discussion when it's mainly about player styles.

On January 20 2009 05:54 Klive5ive wrote:


Avid it was pretty obvious what point he was making. Both the Oz fans claimed JD's loss didn't count because he made an "all-in" move (their words not mine).

What's to say he wont make a silly all-in move again, of course it counts.

Oh and by the way it's ironic that you were biased in your defence of Lecaf Oz fans against claims of them being biased!

Edit: Actually looking again Malinor wasn't biased because he said that he though UpMagic's loss didn't count either. I don't agree with him but if that's what he meant then he is at least consistent.

On January 20 2009 05:54 Klive5ive wrote:


Avid it was pretty obvious what point he was making. Both the Oz fans claimed JD's loss didn't count because he made an "all-in" move (their words not mine).

What's to say he wont make a silly all-in move again, of course it counts.

Oh and by the way it's ironic that you were biased in your defence of Lecaf Oz fans against claims of them being biased!

Edit: Actually looking again Malinor wasn't biased because he said that he though UpMagic's loss didn't count either. I don't agree with him but if that's what he meant then he is at least consistent.

On January 20 2009 06:07 Avidkeystamper wrote:

No, they said it didn't count in judging their abilities from such a short game. People assume we're biased and generalize it to it didn't count period. And you're biased against pointing out bias, but we're all biased. Though seriously, Frits is saying you can judge their abilities and future performances against each other from those two games. I'm saying you can't. If they had said UpMagic played badly and neglected to mention the JD game, that would be biased. But they didn't, so it wasn't blatantly fanboyism biased as Frits accused us of.

Anyways, this is pointless debate, I'll stop responding to posts about this.