On January 04 2009 18:43 food wrote: youre welcome. i always wondered what a simple truth was, now im grasping it u just said that bisu+everybody else are more naturally talented then boxer/oov/nada u could explain success with just the natural talent 2-3 years ago. Not anymore. Plus we're talking about matchup issues, much bigger picture I just noticed your signature and realized im wasting time
Maybe english isn't your first language. When did I ever say bisu+others were more naturally talented than boxer/oov/nada. I noticed you didn't even quote me, since that would instantly discredit your post from the outset.
I said that boxer/oov/nada were expectional talents whom just happened to play Terran which made ppl cry terran were cheap and imba back in the day.
Now, we have a bunch of exceptional talents whom just happen to play protoss and now we have another batch of people (you) crying its map imba.
Like I said, its the players thats imba, not the races, not the maps. You also didn't address my point why these protosses are beating ranked Terran on a regular basis and refused to acknowledge the fact that was posted how medusa is 14-14 pvz = balanced.
- #1bisu fanboy
Medusa is not 14-14 zvp, you should find out before you start putting this out. Its negative stats for zerg, go look it up. You're just throwing words around that are completely meaningless.
you make it sound like medusa was 8-23 or something like that, it's 15-20 ZvP, yes it's negative for zergs but it's far from being a big deal. You can't expect every map to be 50-50, even if it was the case it would not tell everything about balance, far from that. Do you remember Arcadia 2 and the whole TvZ drama ?
I just saw the Bisu vs Effort game and holy shit they both played brilliantly O_O. Bisu was just flawless though. Since both played almost perfectly (Bisu did lose that shuttle to parked scourge and those two reavers in that failed drop), imo the turning point of the game was that failed drop. It's really unfortunate that this one mistake cost Effort the game, but I wouldn't expect anything other than perfect play to take down Bisu.
Effort would've done a lot better if he had preserved that group of hydras. He would've done better even attacking Bisu's nat and picking off that forge, and whatever else he could. He lost 12 hydras for nothing. I think with those extra 12 hydras, Effort would've been able to take on Bisu's little midgame army of zeals/DTs/HTs, at the very least delaying Bisu's 4th, or flat out sniping it. But then again Bisu also had a failed drop losing 4 zealots and those 2 reavers right before that first battle in the middle.
I was really impressed by effort. I can't believe he took on that midgame toss ball so well. These days it seems that only Jaedong can do that. Bisu played like a bonjwa. His macro is scary. I have to rewatch this game at least 7 times.
On January 05 2009 01:46 infinity2k9 wrote: I didn't watch the ACE match yet but i really hate watching ZvP matches now just knowing a couple of mistakes and zerg loses for sure every time. Even Best losing multiple shuttles didn't effect the push at all :/ I dunno about imba but it really seems the top zerg players have to play an almost perfect game to win while protoss can make mistakes and still come back. Also the fact zerg has to expand more and macro harder, while toss can sit on a couple and pack with cannons.. must be really hard for the players right now.
Yes JD beat Bisu we all know that. But he played AMAZING. One failed HT snipe with mutas could have lost him the game. Players lesser than JD cannot pull off perfect games like that, right from the start they are on the backfoot and have to play catch-up to stand a chance.
Bisu vs Effort was really good (Iris vs Canata was good too), but saying Bisu was playing flawlessly is a bit of an overstatement imo, he lost *waaaaaaaay* too many HTs (that would have served him better as archons probably) walking across the middle.
Still, excellent game and EffOrt looks to be "the real deal".
Colosseum and Medusa are maps that favor Protoss over Zerg.
The most notable thing is an easily secured 3rd base for Protoss. When Protoss gets three free bases at the start you just know there's going to be a shitstorm.
On January 04 2009 18:43 food wrote: youre welcome. i always wondered what a simple truth was, now im grasping it u just said that bisu+everybody else are more naturally talented then boxer/oov/nada u could explain success with just the natural talent 2-3 years ago. Not anymore. Plus we're talking about matchup issues, much bigger picture I just noticed your signature and realized im wasting time
Maybe english isn't your first language. When did I ever say bisu+others were more naturally talented than boxer/oov/nada. I noticed you didn't even quote me, since that would instantly discredit your post from the outset.
I said that boxer/oov/nada were expectional talents whom just happened to play Terran which made ppl cry terran were cheap and imba back in the day.
Now, we have a bunch of exceptional talents whom just happen to play protoss and now we have another batch of people (you) crying its map imba.
Like I said, its the players thats imba, not the races, not the maps. You also didn't address my point why these protosses are beating ranked Terran on a regular basis and refused to acknowledge the fact that was posted how medusa is 14-14 pvz = balanced.
- #1bisu fanboy
Medusa is not 14-14 zvp, you should find out before you start putting this out. Its negative stats for zerg, go look it up. You're just throwing words around that are completely meaningless.
you make it sound like medusa was 8-23 or something like that, it's 15-20 ZvP, yes it's negative for zergs but it's far from being a big deal. You can't expect every map to be 50-50, even if it was the case it would not tell everything about balance, far from that. Do you remember Arcadia 2 and the whole TvZ drama ?
Everyone has been posting different numbers on Medusa, but at this thread:
In Best vs Savior, Savior overextended himself. He had units everywhere. There were hydras at his 2 o'clock expansion. Despite Savior's big advantage with Best losing shuttle with reavers, Best hit Savior before Savior could make full use of his economy. It also didn't help losing a lot of lurkers with not enough units to defend it. Also it could be that Savior was expecting a zealot/reaver/shuttle push instead of mass goon timing attack.
On January 04 2009 17:02 Shiznick wrote: It is a sad day for zerg when Jaedong loses to Canata.
QFT. Today at least Iris, the Beserker, beat Canata, the Sleeping Terran. Canata is so boring
On January 05 2009 01:46 infinity2k9 wrote: I didn't watch the ACE match yet but i really hate watching ZvP matches now just knowing a couple of mistakes and zerg loses for sure every time. Even Best losing multiple shuttles didn't effect the push at all :/ I dunno about imba but it really seems the top zerg players have to play an almost perfect game to win while protoss can make mistakes and still come back. Also the fact zerg has to expand more and macro harder, while toss can sit on a couple and pack with cannons.. must be really hard for the players right now.
Yes JD beat Bisu we all know that. But he played AMAZING. One failed HT snipe with mutas could have lost him the game. Players lesser than JD cannot pull off perfect games like that, right from the start they are on the backfoot and have to play catch-up to stand a chance.
Have you seen what happens when most low-level protoss play Jaedong?
On January 05 2009 01:46 infinity2k9 wrote: I didn't watch the ACE match yet but i really hate watching ZvP matches now just knowing a couple of mistakes and zerg loses for sure every time. Even Best losing multiple shuttles didn't effect the push at all :/ I dunno about imba but it really seems the top zerg players have to play an almost perfect game to win while protoss can make mistakes and still come back. Also the fact zerg has to expand more and macro harder, while toss can sit on a couple and pack with cannons.. must be really hard for the players right now.
Yes JD beat Bisu we all know that. But he played AMAZING. One failed HT snipe with mutas could have lost him the game. Players lesser than JD cannot pull off perfect games like that, right from the start they are on the backfoot and have to play catch-up to stand a chance.
Have you seen what happens when most low-level protoss play Jaedong?
EPT
