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On January 04 2009 17:25 SonuvBob wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 17:20 Aux1 wrote:On January 04 2009 17:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 04 2009 17:12 Aux1 wrote:On January 04 2009 17:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 04 2009 17:09 Manit0u wrote:On January 04 2009 16:57 Aux1 wrote:
why do you think effor had to work so hard? because he allowed protoss to be on even bases with him lol, even bases always favors protoss, im amazed that so many people are shocked that bisu won, he was never extremely far behind QFT Rule #1 for ZvP - you must get ahead in bases or you'll get stomped. (that's why you double-exp when P go for FE) right. So how gosu is Effort for keeping up and almost destroying Bisus entire army on even bases? Very. yes effort is good, but he did not lose because of the map. he lost because he failed to expand and/or deny bisu expansions. He denied Bisu expansions more than once. He lost because the map imbalance tipped Bisu over the edge. I'm not saying Bisu's skill had nothing to do with it, or that map imbalance was the biggest factor. It was a factor, it mattered, and without it the end result could have been totally different. effort lost this game because he was outplayed in the late game plain and simple. bisu is the best pvz in the world right now and you cannot play even base as zerg and expect to win in the longrun vs almost any protoss, let alone bisu And they had even bases because it the map makes it easier for P to defend the 3rd gas. This argument goes in circles. :p
not really. if protoss makes a gambit pvt, say, fast dts, and they dont do any damage you dont then turn around and say its too hard to expand early-mid. you dug the hole.
effort made a gambit. he went for a drop. it failed hard.
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9070 Posts
...or maybe Bisu is really good ?
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Guys, just google the ragnarok girl 구지성 and let this pass....
Zergs haven't been that much dominant lately and I am talking in gerenal, Jaedong doesn't tell much about the rest of the Zergs. Maybe it's a slump period or something, every race has theirs remember the times where a lot of Terrans would qualify for the OSL/MSL? Dominance of races come and go and come and go like how a sin wave looks like.
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On January 04 2009 17:31 Infinity.SkyLark wrote:
Guys, just google the ragnarok girl 구지성 and let this pass....
Zergs haven't been that much dominant lately and I am talking in gerenal, Jaedong doesn't tell much about the rest of the Zergs. Maybe it's a slump period or something, every race has theirs remember the times where a lot of Terrans would qualify for the OSL/MSL? Dominance of races come and go and come and go like how a sin wave looks like.
it might sound scary, but there was always a resort. Got outmacroed? Doomdrops still work. Or use defiler, fuck my 80 supply i can defend and win. Or make sunken/spore/lurk at expoes, protoss always dies there. Or contain. Or dont contain, just expand. As it is right now, there is nothign zerg could possibly do early/midgame that can not just simply put him ahead, but let him prepare for the late game happily. We dont even see ultras anymore, fuck, effort had 4 bases he still couldnt afford it. And he never even had the army to match protoss. Im not even gettign into flash tvz, its just ridiculous what i seen. My point is, is there more to be found? what can you possibly do different as a zerg? nothing seems to work, definitely not more expoes. Not even the "spell casters", its not something ultimately useful like storm, its semi-effective shit that doesnt even work vs any of the new builds. Like u cant even theorycraft about plaguing 100 terran gol/tanks and killing them after, its just not doable. U cant perfect somethign that is perfect already.. I dont see answers, not even hints
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jesus effort's doom drop almost won the game! bisu pulled that save out of his fucking ass, his entire army was forward, i still don't know how he took out everything with just his corsairs, a reaver, probes, and a few units. effort WAS ahead and after this he fell behind, which bisu never relinquished. sure he had some incredible plays, but bisu responded every time and otherwise played like a god
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On January 04 2009 16:57 food wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 16:52 fearus wrote:On January 04 2009 16:49 food wrote:On January 04 2009 16:46 Random_0 wrote:
Incredible... just incredible...
Effort played sooo well. He played 3 base zerg vs. 3 base Protoss for a long time, and held.
He played 4 base zerg vs. 4 base Protoss for a longer time, and held. Through creative play, Nexus snipes, wonderful unit positioning and flanking, and continual observer sniping, he stayed in the game and made it much closer than it should have been.
A great game. i cant agree. Its all true, but u cant just say it was a great game. Zerg played near perfect and still lost. Protoss lost infinite shuttles/templars/reaver even nexuses and still won. Saying this was a great game without a bitter notation is just wrong. This was a sad game, at the moment i dont know what zerg can do to overcome this. It was Bisu vs Effort not Protoss vs Zerg Protoss vs Zerg is balanced But Effort lost to the better PLAYER. u should start watching more games of bisu, free, kal, best, jangbi and explain why is there 5-6 protosses out there all of a sudden that are beating top ranked zergs consistently. If you pay attention to games( which i cant ask you of), u will notice even weirder things - these zergs make less to no mistakes lately. They still lose. If they win its due to a "smart" play usually
You fail to note that these toss players are also beating ranked Terran?
So the maps are all imba pvz and pvt?
The simple truth which you refuse to grasp is the current batch of protoss players are simply better PLAYERS than they zerg and terran companions.
Theres only a finite amount of SC talent per era. I saw the boxer->nada->oov aboslute terran dominance, when ever1 cried terran was imba.
It just a roll of the dice that in this period most of the SC talent decided to play Protoss.
There is without a doubt in my mind had Bisu being a zerg player and effort a toss player. Bisu would have still won, his simply more naturally talented and gifted at SC.
Thanks.
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youre welcome.
i always wondered what a simple truth was, now im grasping it
u just said that bisu+everybody else are more naturally talented then boxer/oov/nada
u could explain success with just the natural talent 2-3 years ago. Not anymore. Plus we're talking about matchup issues, much bigger picture
I just noticed your signature and realized im wasting time
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is awesome32277 Posts
Wow 61 pages hahahaah
Ill have to watch all games. Bisu + BeSt is imba. Sounds like BeSt played very good by live reports.
Bah, at least it was 3-2 and EffOrt played well.
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On January 04 2009 19:12 IntoTheWow wrote:
Wow 61 pages hahahaah
Ill have to watch all games. Bisu + BeSt is imba. Sounds like BeSt played very good by live reports.
Bah, at least it was 3-2 and EffOrt played well.
Best actually had a bad start, but Savior didn't take advantage of it and Best's cheater army made him pay for it with one push.
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On January 04 2009 18:43 food wrote:
youre welcome.
i always wondered what a simple truth was, now im grasping it
u just said that bisu+everybody else are more naturally talented then boxer/oov/nada
u could explain success with just the natural talent 2-3 years ago. Not anymore. Plus we're talking about matchup issues, much bigger picture
I just noticed your signature and realized im wasting time
Maybe english isn't your first language. When did I ever say bisu+others were more naturally talented than boxer/oov/nada. I noticed you didn't even quote me, since that would instantly discredit your post from the outset.
I said that boxer/oov/nada were expectional talents whom just happened to play Terran which made ppl cry terran were cheap and imba back in the day.
Now, we have a bunch of exceptional talents whom just happen to play protoss and now we have another batch of people (you) crying its map imba.
Like I said, its the players thats imba, not the races, not the maps. You also didn't address my point why these protosses are beating ranked Terran on a regular basis and refused to acknowledge the fact that was posted how medusa is 14-14 pvz = balanced.
- #1bisu fanboy
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Savior 
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Belgium9949 Posts
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Russian Federation376 Posts
Does anyone have VOD of these games, or atleast Bisu vs Effort?
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On January 04 2009 17:26 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 17:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 04 2009 17:01 food wrote:On January 04 2009 17:00 abakben wrote:Pathetic zerg fans  Always same PvZ imbalance whining. im not a zerg fan by any means. Latest trends in progaming in tvz/pvz are scaring the shit out of me. I like it entertaining, not miserable. The zerg metagame hasn't changed to catch up with the new Metal builds. When they do TvZ will be balanced. When the map pool changes PvZ results will. With the current proleague maps we have zerg 56-44 over protoss. So I guess you mean the maps need to be made to favor protoss more?
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loved when Best didn't hesistate for a second after losing two reavers and went for it anyway raping left and right, so brutal
don't worry Savior, it's not 2009 yet...oh, wait...
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On January 04 2009 23:31 khersai wrote:
loved when Best didn't hesistate for a second after losing two reavers and went for it anyway raping left and right, so brutal
don't worry Savior, it's not 2009 yet...oh, wait...
The game was promising. Don't worry, he doesn't have to start during the January. And you'd have to be mad to say that his play hasn't improved.
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On January 04 2009 23:51 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2009 23:31 khersai wrote:
loved when Best didn't hesistate for a second after losing two reavers and went for it anyway raping left and right, so brutal
don't worry Savior, it's not 2009 yet...oh, wait... The game was promising. Don't worry, he doesn't have to start during the January. And you'd have to be mad to say that his play hasn't improved.
haha nothing funnier than listening blind fanboys excuses.
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bleh bisu/best saves skt1 again
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On January 05 2009 00:41 sung_moon wrote:
bleh bisu/best saves skt1 again
What is wrong about that? Every team have aces to save the day.
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United States12607 Posts
On January 05 2009 00:46 abakben wrote:What is wrong about that? Every team have aces to save the day.
Check his team icon hee hee
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EPT
