EPTedit: Oh and I love how nobody can seem to agree on whether it was a brilliant game or a terrible game. This thread is a good read.
On December 31 2008 16:53 TheAfterEffect wrote:
You're a moron.
You're a moron.
Thanks for contributing!
[PL] Lecaf vs STX - Page 50
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
edit: Oh and I love how nobody can seem to agree on whether it was a brilliant game or a terrible game. This thread is a good read. Thanks for contributing! | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On December 31 2008 17:11 Avidkeystamper wrote: Okay, 1) Both fantasy and he went for the natural instead of the third, hmmm, maybe it's better that way? 2) 2 base terran vs 3 base zerg is not an 'eco disadvantage' 3) Jaedong went for Hwasin's third after he killed his army, though the no scanning made a difference, but it wouldn't have mattered because Hwasin still didn't have an army when his 3rd was under attack. Hwasin played well, he made a few mistakes that cost him the game. But JD played really well at crucial times to keep himself in it long enough for Hwasin to slip up a bit. 1) who the fuck cares about fantasy. Hwasin got too greedy and wanted to end it right there. Big mistake. 2) It is a disadvantage for terran, or else you'd be seeing every other terran let the zerg get their 3rd gas without a fight. 3) Hwasin did have troops. They weren't positioned there. Jaedong was careless though, should have sent a defiler. He almost blew it by not sending one. | ||
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StRyKeR
United States1739 Posts
On December 31 2008 17:19 hacpee wrote: 1) who the fuck cares about fantasy. Hwasin got too greedy and wanted to end it right there. Big mistake. 2) It is a disadvantage for terran, or else you'd be seeing every other terran let the zerg get their 3rd gas without a fight. 3) Hwasin did have troops. They weren't positioned there. Jaedong was careless though, should have sent a defiler. He almost blew it by not sending one. On your 2) --- it could be argued that zerg is getting more resources by having a third and therefore they're at an eco advantage, but from a "game winning" advantage, Zerg desperately needs it. Yes, Zerg might be at an "eco" advantage, but that's not the point. Can you recall any game in the past few months where Zerg beats Terran 2 base vs 2 base? The fact is zerg needs more gas to counter terran's tank + marine + med. 2 gases just won't do it. 2 base zerg vs. 2 base terran, zerg loses 2 base zerg vs. 2 base protoss, zerg loses | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On December 31 2008 16:48 d(O.o)a wrote: How do you not realize that jaedong has been hailed the scourge king multiple times and his scourge usage was extraordinary this game whenever hwasin was under pressure from lurkers + swarm + ensnare + cracklings jaedong would scourge vessels, he did not lose a single vessel when there were less than 3 other things going on I never said that Jaedong wasn't amazing with scourge. Honestly, Jaedong is one of the best of all time in my eyes. However, when you are hailed as The Red Sniper, I'd expect you to handle the vessels a little better, even under pressure. Honestly, to anyone who doesn't think it was an awesome game, rewatch it. It was back and forth game the entire time, and a combination of Jaedong's great play with Hwasin's mistakes led to the outcome. But seriously, quit the "Hwasin sucked balls" shit. He played a great game. | ||
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village_idiot
2436 Posts
The guardians didn't do much and left JD behind IMO. | ||
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
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Rostam
United States2552 Posts
On December 31 2008 18:09 village_idiot wrote: I thought JD was finished when he forgot that defiler mound and went for the guardians instead. The guardians didn't do much and left JD behind IMO. Somehow I doubt he forgot it.. | ||
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village_idiot
2436 Posts
Yeah, but I was scared he forgot it because he didn't try to plant it again after the drone failed to morph. Only a while later did he make the mound. | ||
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puLs.ReADy
Bulgaria1301 Posts
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On December 31 2008 20:40 Warrior Madness wrote: I haven't seen the VODs yet but it sounds like JD made a few questionable decisions in both games. JD funneling his army into storms/reavers and opting for a lurker heavy army twice against Kal's goon heavy army. Map couldn't have helped JD's mass hydras either. It seems like JD just has trouble with a turtle/macro oriented toss player and handling the late game army. Versus Hwasin it sounds like Hwasin made more mistakes. He had great mnm control but wasn't very good with his vessels, didn't drop, threw away small clumps of units carelessly and didn't attack JD's third when JD wasted all his guardians and while Hwasin had the army advantage. I'm still disappointed JD lost to Kal though. (Not that there's any shame in losing to Kal's PvZ). I'm also waiting for vods to see exactly what happened. I read the LR and I agree with your conclusion but it is hard to tell without seeing games. And yet again Jaedong fanboys are crying that a MU is imba after Jaedong loses. It is becoming tiring. It is suprising that from all top progamers it happens only after Jaedong loses. Seriously, there is no shame in losing to Kal in ZvP. | ||
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Azrael1111
United States550 Posts
On December 31 2008 21:44 Lebesgue wrote: I'm also waiting for vods to see exactly what happened. I read the LR and I agree with your conclusion but it is hard to tell without seeing games. And yet again Jaedong fanboys are crying that a MU is imba after Jaedong loses. It is becoming tiring. It is suprising that from all top progamers it happens only after Jaedong loses. Seriously, there is no shame in losing to Kal in ZvP. Na it makes tons of sense that it would happen after a Jaedong loss, because no other pro gamer represents their race more than him. He is the obvious master of zerg (exempting JZ's zvp). | ||
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monstar123
United States516 Posts
 Kal has  July to practice.Jaedong has BackHo to practice .Here is for you result | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On December 31 2008 20:40 Warrior Madness wrote: I haven't seen the VODs yet but it sounds like JD made a few questionable decisions in both games. JD funneling his army into storms/reavers and opting for a lurker heavy army twice against Kal's goon heavy army. Map couldn't have helped JD's mass hydras either. It seems like JD just has trouble with a turtle/macro oriented toss player and handling the late game army. Versus Hwasin it sounds like Hwasin made more mistakes. He had great mnm control but wasn't very good with his vessels, didn't drop, threw away small clumps of units carelessly and didn't attack JD's third when JD wasted all his guardians and while Hwasin had the army advantage. I'm still disappointed JD lost to Kal though. (Not that there's any shame in losing to Kal's PvZ). Hwasin didn`t made really big mistakes..he lost quite a few vessels, but like somebody before posted, it`s pretty hard to do 53298523 things at once. Hwasin played a great game overall. He`s micro & even macro were great  . The lost to kal still counts though, and Jd lost, nothin` to bitch about, ZvP is ZvP, balanced or imbalanced it`s still jd`s fault for losin`.On December 31 2008 21:48 monstar123 wrote: Kal has July to practice.Jaedong has BackHo to practice .Here is for you result lol also: On December 31 2008 18:17 Plutonium wrote: Jaedong is now Christmas Zerg. indeed! | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
On December 31 2008 21:44 Lebesgue wrote: I'm also waiting for vods to see exactly what happened. I read the LR and I agree with your conclusion but it is hard to tell without seeing games. And yet again Jaedong fanboys are crying that a MU is imba after Jaedong loses. It is becoming tiring. It is suprising that from all top progamers it happens only after Jaedong loses. Seriously, there is no shame in losing to Kal in ZvP. It's up on youtube now courtesy of jon747!! | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On December 31 2008 21:48 monstar123 wrote: Kal has July to practice.Jaedong has BackHo to practice .Here is for you result Bisu has Hyuk and s2 to practice. Conclusion? Hyuk and s2 > Jaedong in practice. | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On December 31 2008 22:36 baubo wrote: Bisu has Hyuk and s2 to practice. Conclusion? Hyuk and s2 > Jaedong in practice. may be, jd stated that he has no skill, if u belive that, then it may be  | ||
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monstar123
United States516 Posts
On December 31 2008 22:36 baubo wrote: Bisu has Hyuk and s2 to practice. Conclusion? Hyuk and s2 > Jaedong in practice. Hmmm,mb. But why JD is killing everyone ??? Because his mentall strengh is 1000x compared to S2 and Hyuk.He has confidence and other factors.Only mechanics are not enough to beat somebody.Savior , July , JD ...All of them have 7-10 factors to win ,while Hyuk and S2 and other has 1-2. But Kal's mental strength is not bad too. And he has July to practice.Both of them are mindfuckers. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
It's just that Kal's micro was just incredible. His unit composition, impeccable. So JD amasses 1/1 hydras, attacks up Kal's ramp and Kal does a great job using his zealots to block the ramp/hydras so his storms/reavers could kill them off. Kal loses like 4 zealots and Jaedong loses most of his hydras. Jaedong amasses more hydras and heads for Kal's nat. The small choke point and large number of zealots in the front create perfect conditions for storms/scarabs. Again, Jaedong loses A LOT of his hydras but Kal loses minimal forces again (Like what a few zealots for 3.5 control groups of hydras so far?). Kal has a decisive army advantage and therefore map control. One thing JD does a great job of doing is burrowing and picking off HTs with mutas. He must've picked off at least 6 with that one group. Talk about cost effective. Imo it would've made the critical difference if Jaedong had thrown in a few lurkers into his unit mix from the start (when he attacks up Kal's ramp). | ||
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monstar123
United States516 Posts
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