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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
I'm just here to post the lineups, and start a discussion. <center>Play Off - 1/19 14:00 ▶MBCGame Heros vs CJ Entus  Sea <Monty Hall SE> DarkElf Pusan <Baekmagoji>  KwanroSaint/Light <Hwangsanbul> sAviOr/Nbs[gm]Bisu <Katrina> IrisHyuN <Blue Storm> Much910/Thezerg <Seongangil> Jy/MemoryAce Match <Python></center> | ||
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ray1234
Canada679 Posts
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Umbrella
Taiwan936 Posts
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Darkmole
United States900 Posts
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
Sea > DarkElfDE is good, I'll admit. But Sea is MBC's go to guy with good results. DarkElf shows results, but he's not always reliable. Sea shows solidity.... plus DE is ugly.Pusan > KwanroI have yet to understand Kwanro's ZvP skills. His games vs Bisu were ok, but they weren't THAT impressive, and it wasn't Enough for me to see exactly how good Kwanro is. Pusan plays with Bisu, which means his PvZ, which was originally really good during his first rise, is probably pretty damn good. That and the fact that Pusan's been on fire this PL season has me leaning towards him.Saint/Light > sAviOr/Nbs[gm]Tough choice. Nbs is someone I don't trust just yet, and sAviOr still has much to prove if he wants to convince that he's back in form (and so far he's failed to do that). Saint/Light are a much more experianced team I believe, and TZ is usually better than ZP on this map. Considering those facts, I am leaning towards MBC... again.Bisu > IrisKatrina + Bisu.... Iris has been on a downward slope lately, so I dunno what to expect of him as of late.HyuN < MuchIf my predictions are correct MBC should win 4-0, but I doubt it will be all right so I'm just gonna continue guessing. Much is just a better player here, and Blue Storm is a fair map.910/Thezerg < Jy/MemoryCuz I'm a Jy fan and Jy/Mania are a good combo.Ace Match If it gets this far, it will be difficult to predict. MBC has so many aces right now it's almost impossible to pick one. CJ has a good number too. The map is Python too so all 3 races are a viable choice. My best guess would be Sea vs Much... but it could be anything. | ||
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Felagund
Philippines504 Posts
I thought I'd see Ruby, though . . . | ||
GTR
51455 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On January 17 2008 18:03 GTR-2-Go wrote: How do you predict past 4-0? :O if one of his predictions are wrong, it won't be 4-0 so he just predicted the others just in case | ||
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noobienoob
United States1173 Posts
 CJ FIGHTING!! | ||
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ray1234
Canada679 Posts
basically CJ needs to steal a win from MBC in the first 4 games to stand a chance... im calling kwanro > pusan  | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13007 Posts
I'd rather sacrifice Kwanro and have Iris play Pusan. Poor decision imo... The first two games are real coinflips. I'd expect Bisu and Much to win, but they're the only two I'll confidently tip. | ||
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Aepplet
Sweden2908 Posts
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Emlary
China3334 Posts
would make this perfect! | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13007 Posts
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FoieGras
Canada270 Posts
DarkElf, TvT, and Monty Hall reminds me of that game where he played iloveoov. 20 factories vs 5 factories and he still lost. But out of the first 4 games, I think game 1 would be the most likely one that CJ can win. I don't think they should put Nbs in there at all...he's done practically nothing. In that game where he 2v2 with sAviOr, it ended up being more like a 1v2 with sAviOr just dominating the game. Despite that Xellos has been playing poorly recently, I still think that he should take a spot in the first 2v2 with Kwanro while sAviOr moves to game 2 against Pusan. Bisu vs Iris sounds interesting but once you say Katrina it all just kinda turns blah. I wish they got rid of that map. Game 5 and 6 will probably go to CJ. If there's an Ace Match, MBC will probably send Bisu or Sea (most likely Bisu), while CJ will probably play sAviOr or maybe Iris. CJ looks like they're going to have a tough first 4 games =/ | ||
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JoxxOr
Sweden1502 Posts
And once again they like throwing in a TvP mu on katrina... so fucking lame | ||
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
CJ's placement of a Terran on Katrina is odd, which makes me suspect Iris is preparing something. Otherwise, surely Much would be the right pick for katrina, given his PvT/PvP? | ||
alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
FUCK i knew pusan vs kwanro was going to happen =[ i just had a feeling | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
They would actually be favorites in all 1v1s if they had put Light instead of Hyun vs Much. | ||
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One Page Memory
Bulgaria2145 Posts
Pusan < Kwanro Saint/Light < sAviOr/Nbs[gm] Bisu < Iris That's right, 4-0 for CJ. You heard it here first. | ||
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foeffa
Belgium2115 Posts
But I fear it's gonna be very tough indeed. :0 Wth brings in a semi-slumping T to beat Bisu on Katrina. And while I love Kwanro 's way of playing, I fear PuSan is gonna eat his low-eco style for breakfast. :| | ||
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Bifur
Russian Federation1208 Posts
How will appoint aces? Simultaneously? I thnik, MBC has three real options for ace choice: Bisu, Sea or Light. CJ has Xellos, Savior, Iris, Much and DarkElf. But only Savior and Much are reliable. If Bisu kills Iris on Katrina he will be the ace, and if he lost then he definitely will not be the ace, in this case they'll pick Sea or Light. | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
wouldn't make any sense otherwise btw... | ||
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On January 17 2008 20:33 Bifur wrote: How did teams appoint players to games: did MBC and CJ make it simultaneously or one of them made it first? Did someone know in advance the choices of the enemy? How will appoint aces? Simultaneously? I thnik, MBC has three real options for ace choice: Bisu, Sea or Light. CJ has Xellos, Savior, Iris, Much and DarkElf. But only Savior and Much are reliable. If Bisu kills Iris on Katrina he will be the ace, and if he lost then he definitely will not be the ace, in this case they'll pick Sea or Light. savior isn't that reliable anymore lol yeah aces are revealed simultaneously. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
Gogo MBC! | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On January 17 2008 20:33 Bifur wrote: CJ has Xellos, Savior, Iris, Much and DarkElf. But only Savior and Much are reliable. DE and Iris have been more reliable than sAviOr. MBC takes this. CJ has a lot of good players, but they're not playing well. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
My predictions: Darkelf > Sea I know Sea is one of the those guys right now that can take on any player any day, but DE has improved his playing a shitload since the beginning of this year and on Monty Hall, he has a damn good chance. Pusan > Kwanro Kwanro is good but he hasn't been that consistent. Could swing any way though, tough for me to call. MBC > CJ Experience over some dude I don't trust or know. Bisu > Iris If Bisu loses this, that might be all CJ needs for a victory. Much > Hyun Much is a great player but this is Blue Storm, MBC might take it here but I believe. Jy/Memory > MBC My favorite 2v2 team will triumph. Ace Completely unpredictable, hoping for Savior vs Bisu to end it in the most epic way possible. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
On January 17 2008 19:58 One Page Memory wrote: Sea < DarkElf Pusan < Kwanro Saint/Light < sAviOr/Nbs[gm] Bisu < Iris That's right, 4-0 for CJ. You heard it here first. Lol if this really happens, I will skeet in my own face. | ||
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Moletrap
United States1297 Posts
Imagine if we were going to see Sea or Light vs Kwanro, or Sea vs Much or Bisu vs Xellos not on Katrina or Bisu vs Much or.... Nothing came up. I guess we just have to look forward to a non-invincible Bisu vs an inconsistent Iris. Someone said Xellos instead of Kwanro... Xellos/Kwanro don't work well together. The're like 0-3 in 2v2 matchups.. | ||
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amorpheus
Bulgaria2144 Posts
Pusan<Kwanro MBC>CJ Bisu>Iris Hyun<Much MBC>CJ no ace | ||
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UbRi
Italy603 Posts
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
You heard it here...second i guess | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
Only because CJ's coach isn't a retard. He knows who they are sending on Katrina. Pusan or Bisu. I hope Iris is serving as a sniper. Cuz that, and putting out Much on blue storm... I believe he has reasons for it - -;; | ||
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Simplistik
2007 Posts
Well, based on stats here's my prediction: (T)Sea > (T)DarkElf Sea's TvT is better. He never lost on Monty Hall SE and only once on the old one. Darkelf last won on this back in october. Oddly enough he beat Sea once. (P)Pusan > (Z)Kwanro The map favours Zerg, but the sample size is small. Kwanro's ZvP is hard to judge after two games and a little stomping by Bisu. I lean towards Pusan for his experience. (Z)Saint/(T)Light > (Z)sAviOr/(P)Nbs[gm] Saint and Light have never lost together. Saint also has a lot of experience in 2v2 and seems to be doing well on this map. Nbs doesn't look so hot in comparison. (P)Bisu > (T)Iris The map favours toss. Their matchup skills seem similar. But maybe Iris will find a way to counter 2 base carriers. I doubt it though. (Z)HyuN > (P)Much The prime Zerg map. Hyun looks strong, even though he has to prove himself against better players. PvZ is Much's weakest matchup. (T)910/(Z)Thezerg < (Z)Jy/(T)Memory The CJ combo looks better on paper. Nothing else to say. It looks like a clear MBC victory to me. | ||
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TheTyranid
Russian Federation4333 Posts
Much should have been put on Katrina, and Iris on Blue Storm. Much would have about 50/50 chance vs. Bisu but probably even more. Iris would be the clear favourite over Hyun. I don't know what the coatch was thinking. They knew MBC would send a P on this map obviously, so I am guessing Iris will go for some sort of non-standard build. Maybe a timing push. Maybe reminiscent of his games vs Stork. I don't see any other reason they would put Iris on this map. Playing standard would be suicidal here. Kwanro seems to have poor ZvP, but I am not sure. Putting him on Baek was a meh choice, not good not bad. I don't know what to expect from him really. In the first set, Sea is the favourite but Darkelf can steal the game if Sea plays subpar. I doubt he will though. | ||
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cujo2k
Canada1044 Posts
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Gaetele
Esper760 Posts
Sea < DarkElfDarkElf is CJ's Monty Hall sniper and he does exceptionally well on that map. However, Sea is a beast at Starcraft in general, so I wouldn't be surprised if it goes either way.Pusan < KwanroBaekmagoji is a nice map for ZvP and I would venture to guess that Pusan's PvZ isn't anywhere near Bisu's. Kwanro, however, is a nice, aggressive Zerg, and I would expect him to take this one.Saint/Light > sAviOr/Nbs[gm]Saint/Light are an established 2v2 team and they've been putting up good showings throughout the season. I would like to see them win this one. Hwangsanbul is a nice map.Bisu > IrisPvT on Katrina. Enough said. HyuN > MuchZvP on Blue Storm is slightly imbalanced in favour of Zerg, but I think that Much has Enough experience just as a player to be able to take this.910/Thezerg < Jy/MemoryJy/Anyone is a good 2v2 team. Also, it's finally starting to dawn on people that TZ is the expected showing on Seongangil. Goliaths on the cliff are just too good.For the ACE match, since it's on Python, you can pretty Much expect anyone. I would venture to see Sea for MBC and XellOs/sAviOr/Much for CJ. | ||
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HonkHonkBeep
China353 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Avius
Iraq1796 Posts
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greatmeh
Canada1964 Posts
hawt | ||
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Pervect
1280 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Much's PvZ is actually a lot better than you think, and Hyun is the underdog in that matchup. Kwanro beating Pusan won't be a surprise, but he isn't a favorite for sure. Iris vs Bisu is like 40/60, and if it was Much vs Bisu it would be like 80/20 because Much is far far better at PvP than Bisu. The main 2 arguments for CJs weak lineup isn't the players per se, it's the lack of Savior AND Xellos in a 1v1 along with the maps they put players on. | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
Kwangro MBC Bisu Much CJ Sea vs Savior 4-3 either way | ||
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Senix
Germany149 Posts
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iloveHieu
United States1919 Posts
Hoping for Xellos in the ace match! | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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defenestrate
United States579 Posts
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Snipinpanda
United States1227 Posts
On January 18 2008 08:19 Ancestral wrote: I kind of like Katrina, but then I TLPD the statistics TvP on it ... why is it so imbalanced? I think it's a neat old map. It has easy to take naturals, and the way the cliffs run make it easy for Carriers to maneuver from the gollies. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13007 Posts
If CJ win this you can't say they didn't deserve it. | ||
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fookyou
Canada351 Posts
On January 18 2008 04:51 HonkHonkBeep wrote: Well all I can say is goddamnit, I voted for CJ automatically before the lineups were out because I'm an impulsive liquibetter, and now it looks like they're going to be raped Same . I don't see CJ taking this...but I don't care about my Liquibet! Just seeing CJ get raped will hurt enough T_T.If MBC takes this, I hope Lecaf stomps them...hard. | ||
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
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kramus
United States1259 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
MBC is really going all out like they should. The one thing that could have made the lineup slightly better is putting light in as a 1v1. | ||
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penquin777
United States32 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
Bisu isn't the greatest at TvP. He's good, but not great. | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
) | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
Lineup reflects that | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On January 18 2008 12:34 Ace wrote: 5-2 isnt possible lol hes 14 you dont learn that kind of stuff yet! jk kawaii | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On January 18 2008 12:39 HonestTea wrote: Truth is, CJ just isn't as good of a team as HERO. Lineup reflects that I think they are on par. CJ has had a ton of players make it into OSL and MSL whereas Hero has what? Bisu and Light as their main producers, and Sea who has just finally made a league. Whereas CJ has Much/Xellos/Savior/Iris/DE who are all capable of taking down anyone in that team. This came down to CJ putting players on certain maps, not the players themselves. Hell even Kwanro and Orion made MSL! | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
On January 18 2008 12:59 Ace wrote: I think they are on par. CJ has had a ton of players make it into OSL and MSL whereas Hero has what? Bisu and Light as their main producers, and Sea who has just finally made a league. Whereas CJ has Much/Xellos/Savior/Iris/DE who are all capable of taking down anyone in that team. This came down to CJ putting players on certain maps, not the players themselves. Hell even Kwanro and Orion made MSL! + Show Spoiler [MSL Spoiler] + CJ Entus are 1/4 so far with advancing to the round of 16 and their 1 isn't in the line up :x Friday 18th: Much < Blue Storm > BackHo Saturday 19th: HyuN Makes it much easier for him to practise, I guess. | ||
jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
Sea > Darkelf Pusan > Kwarno Saint/Light < Savior/bsS[gm] Bisu > Iris Hyun < Much 910/Thezerg < Jy/Memory Sea or Pusan > Much | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On January 18 2008 12:47 OneOther wrote: hes 14 you dont learn that kind of stuff yet! jk kawaii We shall see, Rayray. Besides, I think Bisu's falling back a little bit. (Just imo) | ||
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MoRe_mInErAls
Canada1210 Posts
MBC: 2 Starleague Titles CJ: 4 Starleague Titles CJ easy | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
MBCGame Heros vs CJ Entus Sea <Monty Hall SE> DarkElf Sea is a very good player. Darkelf is an okay player that becomes a very good player on Monty Hall. A lot of people are still looking at Darkelf and saying he's not good because they don't like his face, or his nic, or they remember him losing once to oov. It's time to wake up. There isn't a single person, living or dead, who has played and practised on Monty Hall as much as Darkelf. I don't think he's going to lose this one. Pusan <Baekmagoji> Kwanro This match up is very interesting. Last week, I wondered why Orion was in the 2v2 team instead of Kwanro, and I wondered if CJ had decided to give Kwanro some extra practice time for this week's match. My guess is that Kwanro has been practising ZvP on Baekmagoji solid for the past two weeks. It was no surprise that MBC played Pusan on this map. The real surprise is that Much isn't playing against him. I'm sure Kwanro has something planned. I actually give him better odds than Much. Saint/Light <Hwangsanbul> sAviOr/Nbs[gm] The Savior/Nbs team is okay. It's not that spectacular, it's not that bad either. I predict a victory from MBC, though, and they will probably go for Savior first before taking the Protoss at their leisure. Bisu <Katrina> Iris I have the feeling that either this is a throwaway game for CJ, or Iris has something really nasty planned. The honest truth is that CJ only has one decent Protoss, Much, who is a bit erratic anyway. CJ probably felt that he was in no shape to take on Bisu or Pusan, and decided to play him somewhere unexpected instead. I think Bisu will take this, though I'm not ruling out surprises from Iris. This is especially because Xellos + Show Spoiler + played strangely on the map earlier this week, given that he should have been totally prepared for 2 base carriers. Only an idiot wouldn't predict 2 base carriers on this map. HyuN <Blue Storm> Much This is probably CJ's idea of maximising Much's value. Given MBC's strong players, they were fairly sure that a zerg would come out on this map. Since it would be near suicide to play a Terran, their only other option was a Protoss. I think Much will take this one. Again, I'm sure he has been practising ZvP non-stop in anticipation of this match up for the past 2 weeks. 910/Thezerg <Seongangil> Jy/Memory I think CJ will take this. Jy and Memory may not be unbelievably good, but they are very solid. Ace Match <Python> If it comes down to this, I think Xellos, conspicuous through his complete absence, is going to take the stand for CJ. I don't know about MBC. Possibly Sea? Overall: I don't think the lineups are in any way shocking for CJ. I think they predicted MBC's players correctly so they must know what they're doing sending out the players they are. At the same time, they're forced to be a bit creative in their line up as there are 2 maps which favour Protoss (Baekmagoji and Katrina) and MBC has two strong Protosses (a major part of the reason for their good performance this season, despite losing July and having Shark drop off the radar). I also find CJ's individual league performances suspect. During the ODT, + Show Spoiler + Savior played as if he had been actively trying to copy Jaedong's style. He did the same during last week's playoffs. Even though the result went against him, he spent a surprising length of time on the mid game. But his MSL performance in between those two looked suspiciously like he hadn't bothered to practice at all. Xellos's performance in his MSL group was suspect as well, and like I said, his play against Bisu was bad considering two base carriers is the default strategy on Katrina and he could surely have thought of something. He even scouted it! So I think that CJ's players have been consciously dropping their individual league games in favour of practicing for the proleague. CJ really wants to win the proleague this time, and it shows. MBC is definitely the biggest threat to CJ in the proleague, but this season, unlike other seasons, I think CJ's adjusting to that and even making big sacrifices to beat them. I think their players have more drive and more practice, and I think they will win tomorrow. Edit: My suspicions will be confirmed if Much plays like shit against Backho later today. | ||
Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
I want CJ to win but I think MBC will. | ||
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himurakenshin
Canada1845 Posts
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samachking
Bahrain4949 Posts
On January 18 2008 16:12 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: OSL > MSL >>> Proleague MBC: 2 Starleague Titles CJ: 4 Starleague Titles CJ easy Then why doesnt KTF, SKT, or Wemade win the Proleague? Edit: Its actually 5 starleagues for CJ, Xellos's OSL | ||
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Felagund
Philippines504 Posts
The weird lineup? They're up to something, and it'll be something worth watching. CJ I BELIEVE! | ||
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koryano321
United States309 Posts
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On January 18 2008 16:12 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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GTR
51455 Posts
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Avius
Iraq1796 Posts
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eborp
United States266 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On January 18 2008 21:48 HaXxorIzed wrote: Iris has to be a sniper. There's absolutely no sense in sending Iris onto a map where he's at a significant disadvantage when Much and Bisu can evenly clash in PvP. Much has had to prepare for a few PvP in his OSL showing, after all. yeah I agree. horrible choices by cj | ||
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Diggity
United States806 Posts
If a zerg is fielded, bisu takes the win. The PvT record shows the terran story and PvP Bisu can probably handle Much without a ton of problems. As far as Iris on Katrina, I think they just wanted to put someone in who was strong against the inevitable reaver harass. Calling it now... I think Iris is going to box in and go straight 2 factory. He will need to get lucky on that map positions | ||
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TheTyranid
Russian Federation4333 Posts
On January 18 2008 17:45 samachking wrote: Then why doesnt KTF, SKT, or Wemade win the Proleague? Edit: Its actually 5 starleagues for CJ, Xellos's OSL SKT won pretty much all of the previous Proleagues. | ||
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goodjobman
China81 Posts
for ACE??? | ||
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Sulunais
Korea (South)34 Posts
The overall result hinges on Sea/DarkElf and Bisu/Iris, and I guess Hero are just about favourites there. | ||
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
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