EPT[ASL20] Grand Finals - Page 34
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Timebon3s
Norway764 Posts
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TMNT
3122 Posts
On November 01 2025 21:46 Kanzzer wrote: Thanks for the knowledge, TMNT. It is very unfortunate. Do you think Radeon is trending into a T map too? So far it's doing okay. The win rate for P on Radeon is similar to what it is on Polypoid, with a reverse from PvZ to PvT: - Polypoid: 46.9% PvZ - 48.2% PvT - Radeon: 48.6% PvZ - 46.6% PvT But what it seems to fix is TvZ, from 56.4% on Polypoid to 52.6% for Radeon. Once again it agrees to the notion that concept maps are all Terran maps (positive win rate in both matchups) but at least in this case it reduces that advantage to around 52-53% (imo anything from 55% is unacceptable)/ | ||
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Kraekkling
632 Posts
On November 01 2025 22:20 Timebon3s wrote: Yeah but snow and volcano tiles still look like shit. so historically the main problem of ash world was that the ramps looked like shit but with remastered we got these new sick ass stair ramps, which haven't been used in any map so far ![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/dsfTh6Ry/ash.png) | ||
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Kraekkling
632 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/JFtQdb2M/snow.png) | ||
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Kanzzer
49 Posts
On November 01 2025 23:02 TMNT wrote: So far it's doing okay. The win rate for P on Radeon is similar to what it is on Polypoid, with a reverse from PvZ to PvT: - Polypoid: 46.9% PvZ - 48.2% PvT - Radeon: 48.6% PvZ - 46.6% PvT But what it seems to fix is TvZ, from 56.4% on Polypoid to 52.6% for Radeon. Once again it agrees to the notion that concept maps are all Terran maps (positive win rate in both matchups) but at least in this case it reduces that advantage to around 52-53% (imo anything from 55% is unacceptable)/ A 4p map where TvP winrate is higher than TvZ is interesting. The games Terran played in each matchup are almost identical too (1,882 games vs Zerg and 1,871 games vs Protoss). I wonder what the PvT challenges are on Radeon. | ||
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Jealous
10287 Posts
On November 01 2025 23:23 Kraekkling wrote: so historically the main problem of ash world was that the ramps looked like shit but with remastered we got these new sick ass stair ramps, which haven't been used in any map so far The other problem is seeing burrowed Lurkers. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1109 Posts
On November 02 2025 02:35 Jealous wrote: The other problem is seeing burrowed Lurkers. Observers... Or (p.) canons | ||
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Jealous
10287 Posts
Bruh | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey660 Posts
On November 02 2025 01:59 Kanzzer wrote: A 4p map where TvP winrate is higher than TvZ is interesting. The games Terran played in each matchup are almost identical too (1,882 games vs Zerg and 1,871 games vs Protoss). I wonder what the PvT challenges are on Radeon. Here you go. It is not a good map by any means. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey660 Posts
On November 01 2025 22:12 Kraekkling wrote: this stopped being relevant 15 years ago ![[image loading]](https://www.dosdays.co.uk/topics/images/crt_monitor.png) This is true. Koreans can even compete on OLED displays. They can relive the days of CRT glory and yet have perfect saturation which was the main issue with them. My screen has only the slightest dark to black oled lag. Things are different than they used to be. What else, I think we can omit this risk aversiveness to tile set. It is only the latest ASL that Soulkey lost the title on the most visible space installation tile set to Effort in almost perfect contrast between dark purple on light blue. He didn't notice the creep due to fog of war. Personally, it is just another feature of the game. Players may not notice units on the map, they may have to keep scouting on the mini map. It is just another level of map control skill to be ahead of the opponent. Let's not dumb down the game like something it is not. | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1706 Posts
fuck soma man won off 2 hydra busts and 2 fake hydra busts into get way ahead ZvP is so dumb | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway764 Posts
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Miragee
8645 Posts
Note: I'm talking relative performance. Of course both players are some of the best BW has right now. I'm just not impressed with their current performance compared to what they have shown in the past. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4139 Posts
Good video on Snow’s biggest problem. Tldw: Snow’s specialty is pure reaver micro but it doesn’t work well vs Zerg and his optimisation is poor. Alot of Protoss like to complain about PvZ balance but this series just ain’t it. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey660 Posts
On November 01 2025 01:10 Kraekkling wrote: they should make an ASL where half of the maps are picked by mtcn and the other half by TMNT It wouldn't make any difference. You are literally putting %50 of the map pool in the party who doesn't know radeon is antiprotoss map. Even without my contribution, you'd have tipped pvt and that would tip the scales for other matchups, too. Don't mention me in the same sentence with noobs. | ||
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Ze'ev
159 Posts
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mtcn77
Turkey660 Posts
On November 10 2025 10:21 Dante08 wrote: https://youtu.be/LGatMZuiabo?si=fdYHCn9q-Mosk15W Good video on Snow’s biggest problem. Tldw: Snow’s specialty is pure reaver micro but it doesn’t work well vs Zerg and his optimisation is poor. Alot of Protoss like to complain about PvZ balance but this series just ain’t it. If you watch this game, it demonstrates everything I say to be true about Roaring Currents and further extends it to 7-pool and mutalisk meta which both I deemed impossible. I never thought the map could accept early game pressure. All I said is, 4 expos are key in zerg domination and whomever makes corsairs loses since they are too expensive in mid game and game doesn't have enough resources for late game. If a washed up pro like Queen can demonstrate the same amount of finesse a current ASL winner Soma can display, perhaps it is not a map issue, it is a protoss player issue. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1152 Posts
On December 11 2025 23:19 mtcn77 wrote: https://youtu.be/watch?v=uq7gBWjNujU If you watch this game, it demonstrates everything I say to be true about Roaring Currents and further extends it to 7-pool and mutalisk meta which both I deemed impossible. I never thought the map could accept early game pressure. All I said is, 4 expos are key in zerg domination and whomever makes corsairs loses since they are too expensive in mid game and game doesn't have enough resources for late game. If a washed up pro like Queen can demonstrate the same amount of finesse a current ASL winner Soma can display, perhaps it is not a map issue, it is a protoss player issue. Queen is not even close to being washed up... and in that game it all fell apart when snow overextended his corsair and got surrounded by scourge he could not escape from. The map is zerg favored, but that game is a poor example. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey660 Posts
On December 12 2025 21:02 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Queen is not even close to being washed up... and in that game it all fell apart when snow overextended his corsair and got surrounded by scourge he could not escape from. The map is zerg favored, but that game is a poor example. You are good at repeating what I said, given the reasons you fail to acknowledge, but you are still not there yet. I told you the reason, if you have no other alternative explanation, this is why. Also, you cannot claim game is bad all the while claiming queen isn't washed up. Queen good, Snow good - that means this matchup should be favourable to both the zerg and the protoss. Map isn't zerg favoured, zerg is just following my bulletpoints which the protoss should as well. You might have missed it, but this is a follow through post on the previous discussion of the same debate where I outline the basics. Your reply misses that point. This isn't yes or no, it is yes and this is the outline. You can point out other basics, but not disclaim this map has a pattern. | ||
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Jealous
10287 Posts
On December 12 2025 21:16 mtcn77 wrote: You are good at repeating what I said, given the reasons you fail to acknowledge, but you are still not there yet. I told you the reason, if you have no other alternative explanation, this is why. Also, you cannot claim game is bad all the while claiming queen isn't washed up. Queen good, Snow good - that means this matchup should be favourable to both the zerg and the protoss. Map isn't zerg favoured, zerg is just following my bulletpoints which the protoss should as well. You might have missed it, but this is a follow through post on the previous discussion of the same debate where I outline the basics. Your reply misses that point. This isn't yes or no, it is yes and this is the outline. You can point out other basics, but not disclaim this map has a pattern. I would like to use this opportunity to point out and remind everyone that you are a habitual moron who doesn't even play the game, doesn't have the understanding that comes from playing the game, much less the understanding of pros or map makers. Also the fact that you have already been temp banned for being a habitual moron in the BW section. It is truly an achievement to be so consistently, mind-numbingly wrong to get temp banned for sheer stupidity. | ||
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