[ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 - Page 11

On September 30 2025 23:51 TornadoSteve wrote:
When im allinin, its usually to outright kill my opponent, or get ahead. This sounds about right

On September 30 2025 22:48 Kraekkling wrote:
just now watched the first game...

I wonder what protoss players feel when they see stuff like this + Show Spoiler +

On September 30 2025 23:20 Shinokuki wrote:


This is why zergs are all inning so hard early game to either get ahead or outright kill protoss. It gets really hard for zerg to snowball into solid macro game onwards from 11 min and forward on these maps.

On September 30 2025 23:58 Shinokuki wrote:


The issue is that they are "forced" to because if they don't protoss is usually ahead in these macro games. It gets real easy for protoss to just macro up to 140-150 psi and expand to 3 bases if z also tries to do the same. P can 1a2a3a4a5a into wide chokes on these modern maps and get some really good engagements and snowball into 4/5 base protoss with 2/2 upgrades. This is why soma has worked so hard on mineral optimization and crafted a well thoughout builds to kill protoss in early mid games or mind trick protoss into being defensive.

On October 01 2025 05:56 Timebon3s wrote:
Pretty sure Larva beat Bisu in ASL doing turtle style. Or was that KSL?

On September 30 2025 21:36 sas.Sziky wrote:
Bisu with no mapple defense practice looks strong this is why he is my favorite Protoss player. Just not die against Soma all ins, and then win this ASL man, if Jaedong cant do it this season

On October 01 2025 03:02 TMNT wrote:

No bro. I don't know how you got it in a total opposite way like that.

Protoss is only ahead during the 10-13th minute if they do some damage to Zerg in the earlier phases, or by a BO luck. Like a sneaky Zealot getting some Drone early on, or a pre-storm Zealot timing that deals some damage, or a good trade between Corsairs vs Muta/Scourge, or a failed Hydra bust attempt from Z. Basically, race A is ahead of race B at the x minute because because player A deals some damage to player B y minutes earlier, which is true in every matchup.

There's no games where Protoss and Zerg both play safe, just macro up, and no one does anything to the other, and Protoss can naturally get ahead like you described. If that were the case, why would Protoss players even bother with Gate expand? Just FFE, build Cannons to be safe, camp and macro until you get 150 supplies and push out lol. And the global PvZ win rate would be ~55% instead of ~45% like currently lol.

You're just so tunnel visioned into those games where Protoss crushes Zerg at their power spike, because well, you're a Zerg supporter and can only see the difficulties of Zerg in the matchup, like the problem with maps you always claim. Why can't we have mineral lines that don't allow Zealot to hide? Why can't we have narrow chokes to defend? Basically, why mapmakers don't make the matchup easier for us?

On October 01 2025 02:40 RogueTheGOAT wrote:

On the topic of maps, it is interesting but probably not meaningful due to miniature sample sizes that some maps have seen wild swings in win rates from ASL season 19 to 20.

In ZvP:
Metropolis - 50% -> 16.7%
Pole Star - 60% -> 25%
Radeon - 50% -> 20%

On October 01 2025 09:05 RowdierBob wrote:
Larva's work in game 1 was brilliant. Secure the islands and you win on Roaring Currents.

But Bisu is too mechanically strong for him on the more standard maps. Very impressive from Bisu. The buckets remain warm but unused.

On October 01 2025 07:27 Shinokuki wrote:


I'm really curious what your mmr is and how you keep refuting what every z pros are saying right now. You really don't seem to understand zvp that well. The games where they go 50:50 are games that z/p cross spawn and constantly scout each other and z ends up making only 6 lings and protoss goes straight to stargate before cannon.

See the games snow played vs soma today (FYI snow destroyed soma 7-2 as soma seemed to purposefuly go standard to get ready for bisu matches. Soma did say he will play 30 games every day until the day of the match to increase his mechanics and he has ALWAYS said he lacks standard macro game. It's crazy how many mineral lines allow for zealots to hide and let's not even mention wide choke points which is the biggest culprit.

You see effort, larva, and soma all doing crazy styles to not let it get to standard macro game. Foreigners think soma played so well but the sad reality is that he needed to do this in order to be ahead because it sure is easy for protoss to 1a2a3a into wide chokepoint and get insane advantage. For example, see game 7 or 8 of snow vs soma BO9 (forgot which game it was but it was on polestar). Snow lost 2 DTs for FREE in the beginning and then soma opted to go standard and soma lost so much at wide chokepoint, attempting to defend both his nat and 4th with like 20 lurkers. Snow killed 20 lurkers and expanded twice. Soma had no answer for such eco disadvantage and the fact that he lost all his gas heavy units. It's really crushing as zerg to play like this where the other race can play macro standard game, stress free while zerg has to be the one initiating the variance play so that it doesn't fall into typical standard game.