EPT[ASL19] Semifinal B - Page 21
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sas.Sziky
Hungary275 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3440 Posts
On May 15 2025 17:14 XenOsky wrote: is there really a protoss player that actually thought that snow had a chance to win the series? he was gonna lose anyway due to the nature of the match up ... 4-3 or 5-1 doest matter, bo5+++ vs zerg at equal skill, , protoss is never winning... bo1 mb bo3 mb bo5 nope bo7 rofl gtfo But Snow went up 3-2 so if it was bo5 with the same set of 5 maps, he would’ve won? | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2227 Posts
On May 15 2025 17:25 vndestiny wrote: But Snow went up 3-2 so if it was bo5 with the same set of 5 maps, he would’ve won? results oriented... z is in a favorable position in bo5 or bo7, if this series was bo5 maps order wouldave changed and soulkey prolly wins in some other fashion... the timeline changes completly from start to finish if bo5 instead of bo7, i belive that in any case SK wins, if not, that result is a fluke, like bisu was...+ Show Spoiler + like winning KK vs AA or like fliping a coin and having 10 tails in a row... or like fucking winning a bo7 vs zerg as protoss in a major bw tournament... also if bo5 less room for mistakes for z, so less likely to choose super aggro gambly shit, style that btw gives toss a fighting chance if defence is on point... SK is prolly bonjwa right now, so he deserves to win everything, but that doest change the fact that z>p so hard that makes the match up not even fun to watch or play... + Show Spoiler + season after season i just know that THE BEST PROTOSS is going to lose vs zerg deep in the tournament... i just dont know HOW is going to happen... ..fuck, im sick of that narrative, boring as fuck, is like knowing that the home team in futbol will always win deep in a CUP, you just dont know the score... patch the fucking match up already and let us move on to a really competitive state of pvz where the BEST PROTOSS OF THE WORLD has a chance to win vs zerg in long series... u dont even have to touch the other matchs , just give some + armer vs hidra, or gasless detection, idk man, just do something cause i remember toss lossing to zerg like this since like JulyZerg prime... lil too long imo | ||
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TMNT
2545 Posts
On May 15 2025 15:45 G5 wrote: SoulKey sacrificed eco early, SnOw held, SoulKey then turned it into legitimately a semi-island map (Protoss is the best race in these scenarios by the way) and SoulKey outplayed SnOw from there. SoulKey also did have to defend the right side of the map a bit and did so well. As I said, SnOw deserved the loss. He was in a fine position and misplayed it. You can have your opinion and I respect it but that is mine. I feel like you being stuck in the mindset of "Protoss tends to do well on island maps" makes you misread the game state at that point. Firstly (like Bonyth said), only Snow had to play the semi island map. Soulkey just had a normal map with two entrances and two lanes, sort of like Monty Hall. Secondly, the concept of Protoss doing well on island map, be it true or not, can't be simply over-generalized to any map with island features. It's only true when both players have to start on an island with only 1 base. Other than that you have to look at it case by case, matchup by matchup. For example : - Neo Arkanoid: it's a semi island map which later can be turned into a (sort of) normal map, but you start with 3 bases in your quadrant, so it's no issue for Z. In fact this map is a free win for Z if they go Hydra bust because Protoss can't defend 3 entrances at the same time. - 76: it's no issue for Zerg because small units can fit through the ramp - Monty Hall: this map is a massive graveyard for P in PvZ because the semi island feature on this map denies the potential pressure for Protoss in early game, allowing Zerg to freely drone up. All those 3 maps are massively Zerg favored. Now back to Death Valley, Soulkey essentially turned it into Monty Hall with 2 lanes for him BUT Snow could only play on 1 lane. It's true that Soulkey had to defend the right side "a bit" but it is the easiest defence for Z since P can only slip 1 zealot through at a time with a terrible success rate, and in some cases the probe slips through as well, effectively donating it to Z. Snow attempt to glitch zealots out probably did him more harm than good actually. So, droning up nonstop and free 3 bases which will never be threatened. What more could Zerg as for in ZvP lol? | ||
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TMNT
2545 Posts
Interesting that Best also picked Death Valley for the finals, so he must have some plan maybe. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3734 Posts
On May 15 2025 15:31 vndestiny wrote: Did they mention why thus far? I’m noticing less/none late game econ storm drop in v Z too, but haven’t put much thought into it. I don't know. If I had to guess it's because shuttles are too slow, and the speed upgrade requires additional resources and time. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2227 Posts
On May 15 2025 18:28 Magic Powers wrote: I don't know. If I had to guess it's because shuttles are too slow, and the speed upgrade requires additional resources and time. have you ever played a pvz so intense that in your mind you are thinking "i need to kill some drones, i need to drop" but you just cant find the time/resources to do it? i guess that situation comes up a lot in a semi finals of ASL... | ||
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Sabu113
United States11046 Posts
Bleh. He just played some insanity though SK’s macro is wild. Map makers need to do some work for pvz though. Feels so rough in big box Edit Snow probably put up the best straight play pvz we’ll see. Handled going late better than I have ever seen toss tbh. Mostly when it goes super late they get ground down. Mini is still the god of the matchup for toss. Frustrating because snow was just beautiful today. | ||
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TMNT
2545 Posts
On May 15 2025 17:14 XenOsky wrote: is there really a protoss player that actually thought that snow had a chance to win the series? he was gonna lose anyway due to the nature of the match up ... 4-3 or 5-1 doest matter, bo5+++ vs zerg at equal skill, , protoss is never winning... bo1 mb bo3 mb bo5 nope bo7 rofl gtfo See I'm also a "PvZ whiner" but P can beat Z and Snow can beat Soulkey in a Bo5/7/9, as he actually did a few times in online series vs Soulkey this year. In fact, the last game had he not gone full Mini and just played it out normally, or tried something like a blind 12 Nexus (would have worked, since Soulkey wasn't doing 9 pool and it was cross spawn), he would have a good chance to win. And although I'm a "PvZ whiner", my complaints have never been result-based, but always gameplay-based. Actually the game that I have the most issue with (regarding balance) in this series is the game that Snow won on Dominator. It's just absurd that Zerg with 7 drones at 9th minutes, and 1 base less than Protoss in the late game, can almost beat the shit out of the P. If not for Zeratul single-handedly killing whole mineral line, Snow would have lost. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands752 Posts
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TMNT
2545 Posts
So Soulkey did gamble here and now that I think of it, there's no way Snow and JD during their practice wouldn't think about that, but they probably thought Soulkey wouldn't make that gamble. So mind game vs mind game here. | ||
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