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Recommended Games+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 1?No (13) 68% Yes (5) 26% If you have time (1) 5% 19 total votes Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 2?Yes (18) 90% If you have time (2) 10% No (0) 0% 20 total votes Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 3?Yes (46) 100% No (0) 0% If you have time (0) 0% 46 total votes Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 4?Yes (31) 97% No (1) 3% 32 total votes Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 4? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
I fat fingered it, no 3rd option and don't want to remake. Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 5?Yes (24) 100% No (0) 0% If you have time (0) 0% 24 total votes Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 5? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 6?If you have time (9) 45% Yes (6) 30% No (5) 25% 20 total votes Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 6? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 7?No (12) 41% If you have time (9) 31% Yes (8) 28% 29 total votes Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 7? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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On May 21 2025 23:07 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2025 22:30 ImbaTosS wrote:
It feels like the narrative among some people that Snow can't keep it together on a big stage is really not quite fair. He delivered an incredible set of games here against the undisputed best current player. Yes, if he'd have been a bit more on top of his mental game for that last match, he could have taken it rather than do something ill-advised. But it was damned close all the way, and credit is due for that. It just something people make up to try and explain why someone loses. people seem to forget that with in competitions someone wins and someone loses. both players can be in great mental states and in peak performance mode, and one still will lose. Specifically with Starcraft the person who loses can look like they are fumbling. Pros can snowball advantages really hard and really quick. This can make it look like the losing player is falling apart mentally. They are not. They are just playing with the game state being in favor of their opponent. Everything they do has a bigger chance to fail than to succeed when playing from a deficit.
How much benefit of the doubt for Snow though?
Although arguably and historically Best is the king of choke, bar none.
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On May 21 2025 22:30 ImbaTosS wrote:
It feels like the narrative among some people that Snow can't keep it together on a big stage is really not quite fair. He delivered an incredible set of games here against the undisputed best current player. Yes, if he'd have been a bit more on top of his mental game for that last match, he could have taken it rather than do something ill-advised. But it was damned close all the way, and credit is due for that.
Speaking as someone who has quite a bit of experience in competition, both online and IRL, and struggles a lot with the mental part, I personally struggle a lot more towards the end of whatever competition (end of a series, final minutes of a match). Even if there is a strong lead, fear creeps in that I cannot keep it up and of course, even though somewhat ironically, this throws of my concentration, flow etc. and lets me perform worse. Of course everyone feels different but I believe this is a common occurrence and a big reason why comebacks in series happen. So while I agree with you that Snow delivered a fantastic series as a whole, I would also say in retrospect you could see Snow becoming more and more mentally unstable in the latter half of the series. Game 5 had me screaming at the monitor a few times because of his army movement (super indecisive and often prefered to stay on low ground instead of high ground, despite the placement of his third). Game 6 he played like a single player game for a long time, no "presence" at all until it was too late. And the last game his brain shortcircuited in the beginning (that happened to me quite a few time in important sports matches and is super painful), which subsequently lost him the game.
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I really feel like that last game must have been a planned build. It seems like an insane thing to do on the fly.
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On May 22 2025 04:08 prion_ wrote:
I really feel like that last game must have been a planned build. It seems like an insane thing to do on the fly.
I been thinking about that aswell. Looks to me like something both of them prepared to counter cuz SK was also really quick to send all the extra drones. And Snow didnt think twice about doing that move either.
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United Kingdom1704 Posts
On May 22 2025 00:27 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2025 22:30 ImbaTosS wrote:
It feels like the narrative among some people that Snow can't keep it together on a big stage is really not quite fair. He delivered an incredible set of games here against the undisputed best current player. Yes, if he'd have been a bit more on top of his mental game for that last match, he could have taken it rather than do something ill-advised. But it was damned close all the way, and credit is due for that. Speaking as someone who has quite a bit of experience in competition, both online and IRL, and struggles a lot with the mental part, I personally struggle a lot more towards the end of whatever competition (end of a series, final minutes of a match). Even if there is a strong lead, fear creeps in that I cannot keep it up and of course, even though somewhat ironically, this throws of my concentration, flow etc. and lets me perform worse. Of course everyone feels different but I believe this is a common occurrence and a big reason why comebacks in series happen. So while I agree with you that Snow delivered a fantastic series as a whole, I would also say in retrospect you could see Snow becoming more and more mentally unstable in the latter half of the series. Game 5 had me screaming at the monitor a few times because of his army movement (super indecisive and often prefered to stay on low ground instead of high ground, despite the placement of his third). Game 6 he played like a single player game for a long time, no "presence" at all until it was too late. And the last game his brain shortcircuited in the beginning (that happened to me quite a few time in important sports matches and is super painful), which subsequently lost him the game.
But did his brain shortcircuit? Again, I'm not sure - it didn't look so impromptu to me, just like something he'd planned if it went to the last set to try and catch SK off guard, it totally failed because... SK, and that was it.
I'll have to watch back over games 5 and 6 to see what I think - I was mainly just swept along in watching and don't remember the analytical side of things :D
I do take your point that the mental part of overcoming fear is a huge one. Hell, I experience this a lot with live performance as a musician - something I've practiced 100 times, but I know is tricky, is coming up, and my hands start to shake and it all becomes 10x harder to get right. The mental side is very, very real, I don't doubt it.
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Snow probably explained game 7 on his postmatch streams but we need some korean speaker to catch that part.
I agree that game 6 he played like a single player and was not "present" at all, but so did Soulkey. So it actually goes back to the question about the core of the matchup: if both players play single mode why does Zerg get to be ahead automatically?
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United Kingdom1704 Posts
On May 22 2025 17:38 TMNT wrote:
Snow probably explained game 7 on his postmatch streams but we need some korean speaker to catch that part.
I agree that game 6 he played like a single player and was not "present" at all, but so did Soulkey. So it actually goes back to the question about the core of the matchup: if both players play single mode why does Zerg get to be ahead automatically?
Is it a relevant question though? Rephrasing it as "if both players play without doing a lot of the most important moves, why does one race win?". It feels to me that if a problem goes away when each person plays well, it's not such a problem.
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The most disappointing thing for me was that Snow took no risk when he was on match point, with a game to spare. Game 6 would've been perfect for a 12 nexus or something.
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Netherlands5208 Posts
Honestly Game7 didn't have to be as bad even if the rush got denied like it did. To use a musician performing as an analogy... Even if you made a mistake, the show still goes on and you have to forget about the mistake and just do the best you can. In that regard Snow failed hard game 7 hard, but not because his cannon rush failed.
Also I think performing music is a lot scarier than playing a game on stage. There is quite a bit room for error in BW and corrections can be made.
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Netherlands5208 Posts
Honestly Game7 didn't have to be as bad even if the rush got denied like it did. To use a musician performing as an analogy... Even if you made a mistake, the show still goes on and you have to forget about the mistake and just do the best you can. In that regard Snow failed hard game 7 hard, but not because his cannon rush failed.
Also I think performing music is a lot scarier than playing a game on stage. Simply because there is quite a bit room for error in BW and corrections can be made.
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On May 22 2025 21:20 Simplistik wrote:
The most disappointing thing for me was that Snow took no risk when he was on match point, with a game to spare. Game 6 would've been perfect for a 12 nexus or something.
Feels like I made a similar comment like this already in this thread. Game 6 he would have gotten away with 12 Nexus because of the cross spawn no 9 Pool.
But then again it's only hindsight talking. Snow might have thought about it, but then decided that "Soulkey must think the same so he's going to 9 Pool me and there's a 66% it's close spawn". In the end it's mostly luck really.
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On May 22 2025 17:38 TMNT wrote:
Snow probably explained game 7 on his postmatch streams but we need some korean speaker to catch that part.
I agree that game 6 he played like a single player and was not "present" at all, but so did Soulkey. So it actually goes back to the question about the core of the matchup: if both players play single mode why does Zerg get to be ahead automatically?
If zerg is allowed to drone up 3 bases, naturally he will be ahead of 2 base toss. Toss has around +10 workers all the time, so he can produce various strong timings for trades. This probe heavy 9 gateways powering into 3rd isnt necessarily bad, but you cant be doing it at every game that stabilizes, your predictability will be exploited.
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There's a reason why I think the sixth game was the biggest blunder from Snow. He literally played a losing strategy, so it was a free win for Soulkey. It still doesn't make any sense to me, the only explanation I can come up with is that he mentally ran out of steam. His mind wasn't in peak condition.
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There is a reason Why that game 6 was so slow from Snow tho.
Snow for some reason wasnt satisfied with the scout information he was getting. And played a very defensive build to counter 973 from SK. He Purposely delayed his citadel to build more canons faster than usual. But then he cancel the extra canons and endep up with a late citadel. That mess up his timings and now have a late DT opening. Not zealot speed on time to do any kind of pressure either.
Snow basically played the game 6 on full panic. Cuz even with Sairs out he was still making extra canons at his wall while SK was just droning and making 4 or 5 mutalisk .
My issue here is that it was Cross spawns. He was 1 game ahead. I feel like he could have been more greedy but well.It is what it is.
Would be nice to hear what he think about the series tho. It honestly feelt like Snow missed a golden opportunity to make the finals this time.
Funny enough few days ago he shit so hard on SK in one of those Sponsored bo7 lol. Wasnt even close.
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On May 23 2025 03:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
There is a reason Why that game 6 was so slow from Snow tho.
Snow for some reason wasnt satisfied with the scout information he was getting. And played a very defensive build to counter 973 from SK. He Purposely delayed his citadel to build more canons faster than usual. But then he cancel the extra canons and endep up with a late citadel. That mess up his timings and now have a late DT opening. Not zealot speed on time to do any kind of pressure either.
Snow basically played the game 6 on full panic. Cuz even with Sairs out he was still making extra canons at his wall while SK was just droning and making 4 or 5 mutalisk .
My issue here is that it was Cross spawns. He was 1 game ahead. I feel like he could have been more greedy but well.It is what it is.
Would be nice to hear what he think about the series tho. It honestly feelt like Snow missed a golden opportunity to make the finals this time.
Funny enough few days ago he shit so hard on SK in one of those Sponsored bo7 lol. Wasnt even close.
Seems like Snow definitely has some nerve issues offline that don’t appear when he’s playing online.
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Funny enough few days ago he shit so hard on SK in one of those Sponsored bo7 lol. Wasnt even close.
Snow slaughtered SK 4:0 in that spon match.
Some people think SK likes to sandbag in low-stake games. I'd be curious to know if Korean fans think the same.
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He definitely plays better offline. I think he benefits a lot from preparing with someone else for a series as well. In the Rush postgame interview he joked that the players he prepares with (maybe on his university team?) say he doesn't come up with good strategies and he wanted to show them that he can in the series with Snow. Then in the series with Snow in the postgame interview he was like whoops guess those didn't work. (From the ASL Tastosis vods, maybe I'm getting this wrong)
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Soulkey definitely does take online just as serious. He seems to perform under higher pressure and with more prep. He needs it to enter the zone.
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Does anyone have the date and time for the finals? I can't seem to find it anywhere on TL. Thanks.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50604 Posts
its on the sidebar, but here you go.
Sunday, May 25 5:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
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EPT
